Consider This from NPR - The fate of Ukraine hangs in the balance as Trump sides with Russia

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Earlier this week, President Donald Trump accused Ukraine of starting the war with Russia. Three years ago Russian troops poured over Ukraine's border, and Russian missiles and drones continue to bombard Ukrainian cities.Besides being untrue, the comments echoed a popular Kremlin talking point. And Trump's comments signaled a seismic shift in decades of U.S. foreign policy. Supporters of Ukraine and its allies, both here and abroad, were left shaken.NPR's Joanna Kakissis and Greg Myre discuss Ukraine's future as Russia-U.S. relations thaw. For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail]. Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Lately, when President Trump talks about Ukraine and its president, Volodymyr Zelensky, he sounds a lot like Russian President Vladimir Putin. I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it's going very well. But today I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three years. You should have never started it.

You could have made a deal. That was Trump speaking at Mar-a-Lago this week, echoing a popular Kremlin talking point, the false assertion that Ukraine started the war with Russia, a war that saw Russian troops pour over Ukraine's border and Russian missiles and drones bombard Ukrainian cities for three years. Trump was referring to a meeting that happened earlier this week. Top U.S. and Russian officials gathered in Saudi Arabia to discuss ending the war. Not included in the meeting? Anyone from Ukraine. These comments have shaken supporters of Ukraine and its allies both here and abroad.

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer responded to some of Trump's comments on the Senate floor this week. Some of his comments sounded straight from a Russian propaganda playbook. Zelensky responded, too. He spoke through an interpreter to a small group of reporters at the presidential palace in Kiev on Wednesday morning, saying that while he respected Trump as a leader, Trump was living in what Zelensky called

a circle of Russian disinformation. I would like to see more truth from the Trump team, because this affects Ukraine and not in a positive way. The United States has an embarrassing record of naivety of somehow thinking that they could figure out the Russians and work with them like they were some sort of normal country. Retired General Ben Hodges was commanding general of U.S. Army Europe from 2014 to 2017. He spoke on NPR's Here and Now. All of our allies and friends in Eastern Europe, they are just amazed that we still

continue to believe that somehow Russia has good intentions and they just want to be a normal, responsible country. The Russians have not stepped away from their original objective of destroying Ukraine as a state or destroying the idea of Ukraine as a state. Consider this. As the once cold relations between the U.S. and Russia begin to thaw, the fate of Ukraine hangs in the balance. From NPR, I'm Scott Detro. From NPR, I'm Scott Detra. Public media counts on your support to ensure that the reporting and programs you depend on thrive. Make a recurring donation today to get special access to more than 20 NPR podcasts, perks

like sponsor-free listening, bonus episodes, early access, and more. So start supporting what you love today at plus.npr.org. It's Consider This from NPR. For the past three years, the U.S. has been Ukraine's leading supporter in its war with Russia. But with a series of stunning moves, President Trump is now sounding more aligned with Russia than with Ukraine. To break this down, we are joined by NPR's Greg Myrie in Washington and Joanna Kakissis

in Kyiv. Hey to both of you. Hello. Hi, Scott. Greg, I want to start with you. Trump is publicly attacking Ukraine's president. Why? Why is he doing this? Well, Scott Trump has been critical of Ukraine and Zelensky dating back to his first term

But we've never seen language this harsh writing on social media Trump said quote a dictator without Elections Zelensky better move fast or he's not going to have a country left So in the past week Trump has also reached out to Russia which had been isolated under the Biden administration. Trump called Russian leader Vladimir Putin and senior Trump aides met with the Russian counterparts in Saudi Arabia without Ukraine present and this all seems to be part of Trump's very aggressive campaign for a ceasefire, and he's going about it by putting very intense public pressure on Ukraine and Zelensky, who are in a vulnerable position on the battlefield. Joanna, how are people in Ukraine responding specifically? How is Zelensky responding? He's remained calm and he's tried to be diplomatic and he seemed concerned, not angry when he

said yesterday that President Trump seems to live in a Russian-created space of disinformation. Trump is repeating Kremlin talking points. He's blaming Ukraine for the war, even as Russia continues to attack the country every night and he's claiming Zelensky is an illegitimate president. And now Ukrainians are, you know, they very much want this war to end, but they've been watching the Trump administration's actions with disbelief. We spoke to several Ukrainians who are outraged by Trump's comments. Olena Tokovenko, she's a 47-year-old lawyer.

She said Trump is acting like he owns Ukraine. Maybe Trump can just tell us who to elect and maybe even offer his own candidate? Maybe though we should not ask Trump, but Putin what to do. This would cut out a middleman, right? Because this is Russia's policy coming through Trump. The feeling that the White House is aligned with Russia is so shocking to Ukrainians because they have staked their very survival as a country on Western-style democracy and liberty which they believe the US was a beacon of so Trump is Attacking Zelensky echoing Kremlin talking points Zelensky is responding but Joanna at the same time

Trump's envoy for your crane Keith Kellogg is in Keith. How is he being received? Well Scott? He's here this week, but it's it's really not clear how much authority he has. And this point seemed to be driven home today when we went to the presidential palace for another press conference, this time with Kellogg and Zelensky. But while we were waiting to sit down for this press conference, Zelensky's spokesman said it would not happen at the request of the American side. OK. So, Greg, what is likely to happen with U.S. military support for Ukraine?

It's billions and billions of dollars. So for the moment, it continues. This is part of a big package approved last year by the Biden administration. It's still working its way through the pipeline. But it is winding down, and Trump is giving no indication that he'll seek more. In fact, just the opposite. He says Zelensky's great skill has been to get the U.S. to send him money and suggesting that there won't be

more going to Ukraine. Now, the Europeans are helping with their own military assistance, but without American aid, the Ukrainians will be stretched very thin. For example, Ukraine needs regular resupplies of air defense missiles to shoot down these daily and nightly Russian airstrikes. Question for both of you. Trump really seems to be in a hurry here to get ceasefire negotiations started. What are the various parties?

We're talking Trump and America, Ukraine and Russia. What do they want from these talks? Greg, let me start with you. Yeah, I spoke with Andrew Weiss at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington. He says Trump wants this ceasefire but doesn't seem particularly interested in the details. He said Russia is also interested in a ceasefire but has very expansive and ambitious aims. The Russians are pressing for a big ceasefire and that ceasefire would include caps on the size of Ukraine's military.

It would impose strict limits on Western cooperation with Ukraine. And it would close the door to Ukraine's membership in NATO. Joanna, what about Ukraine? So Scott, Ukraine wants very strong security guarantees to protect itself from Russia to avoid more invasions in the future. And Zelensky says he will not give up Ukraine's push for NATO membership or its wish to get back territory occupied by Russia. And Ukrainians, they also want Russia to be held accountable for war crimes. But with the Trump administration, all this is up in the air.

That is NPR's Joanna Kikissas in Kyiv, as well as NPR's Greg Myrie talking to us from Washington. Thanks to both of you. You're welcome. Thanks, Scott. Steve, as well as NPR's Greg Myhre, talking to us from Washington. Thanks to both of you. You're welcome. Thanks, Scott. This episode was produced by Mark Rivers and Brianna Scott. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Tara Neal, Patrick, Jaren Watanon, and Nadia Lantzi. Our executive producer is Sammy Yandigan.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detro.