Consider This from NPR - The Global Struggle For LGBTQI+ Rights

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

While the last few decades have shown major progress when it comes to LGBTQ+ rights globally, queer people have had to continue to fight for them. During Pride month there have been several high-profile instances of violence targeted at queer people. These events are stark reminders that the struggle for equal rights and safety for LGBTQ+ people continues. NPR's Ari Shapiro spoke with three high-level diplomats assigned to LGBTQ+ issues – the U.S.'s Jessica Stern, Italy's Fabrizio Petri and Argentina's Alba Rueda – about whether life is improving for queer people globally.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University performs breakthrough research every year, making discoveries that improve human health, combat climate change, and move society forward. More at iu.edu forward. Today is the last day of June and the last day of pride. This has been a month of celebrating queer joy all over the world. At the same time, it's also been a month of increasing violence against LGBTQ plus people. In Turkey, where Pride events have been banned in recent years, police in Istanbul detained more than 300 activists who had assembled for a march despite the ban. In Turkey, the government is toughening its stance against the LGBTQ community and their rights.

The activists were eventually released. In Norway, a mass shooting took place at a gay club in Oslo where two people were killed and dozens injured. One witness spoke to reporters at The Guardian. He's saying there were many who cried, who screamed, injured, who screamed, people upset and scared. Here in the U.S., 31 members of a white supremacist group were arrested in Idaho where they had plans to riot at a local Pride event. We did know about some of the threats that were happening online. And yes, there were people walking around the event with long guns and handguns and bear spray and all kinds of things. And after the ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson last week that struck down Roe v. Wade,

Justice Clarence Thomas encouraged the court to revisit its rulings that legalized birth control and same-sex marriage. Jim Obergefell brought the case that established the nationwide right to marry. The decision to deny a woman's right to control her body, okay, that specific decision does not apply to marriage equality. But when that decision includes language that says history and tradition are important for non-enumerated rights, and we can only interpret the Constitution as of the time it was written, well, those things clearly can be used against not just marriage equality, but all types of equality for the LGBTQ plus community. All this is a reminder that people fighting for queer rights around the world are still climbing a long and difficult hill.

And at the highest levels of government, there are very few people completely dedicated to the task. There are four diplomats in the world specifically assigned to LGBTQ plus issues, including one in the United States. We're in an inflection point for the LGBTQI community worldwide. We see enormous opportunity, but it's also a moment of crisis. Consider this. Around the world, queer people have made progress, but those rights are under threat. Coming up, I'll speak with three high-level diplomats whose job it is to protect this community. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Thursday, June 30th.

This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply. It's Consider This from NPR. At New York City's Pride Parade on Sunday, three diplomats marched alongside glittery floats and fluttering rainbow flags. It was the first time the three of them had ever marched together in a pride parade. I'm Jessica Stern, the U.S. Special Envoy for the Advancement of the Human Rights of LGBTQI plus persons.

I invited Stern and the diplomats she marched with to talk about the state of the world for LGBTQ people right now. Hi Fabrizio. Ciao Alba. Hi everyone. Alba Rueda is from Argentina and Fabrizio Petri is from Italy. I asked whether things on the whole are getting better or worse for queer people globally and they all agreed it's a mixed verdict. Take Argentina. Same-sex marriage has been legal there for 12 years, and Albarrueda said the president recently established a quota for trans people in the public sector. There is ups and downs, of course, because in Latin America, for example, Catholic Church is very present, and of course, they have a strong position against equal marriage. Italy's Fabrizio Petri says even in the most

progressive parts of the world, LGBTQ rights are at risk, which makes their job as special envoys even more important. The whole point is to continue to sustain and really focus on this. Jessica Sterna, the State Department, says there have been both wins and losses. In many countries, political candidates are weaponizing LGBTQ issues, even making it a crime to speak out in favor of gay rights. So I would say we're in an inflection point for the LGBTQI community worldwide. That inflection point does not sound like an upswing. I would say that the inflection point has equal measures of opportunity and crisis. Botswana, just seven months ago, decriminalized homosexuality. Increasingly, when we hear about sodomy cases, it's because sodomy laws are being struck down. In fact,

nine countries have decriminalized homosexuality in the last six years alone. It's very, very important that all the like-minded countries act together. So we know that there are 70 countries that are still criminalized. 70 countries still criminalize LGBTQ people. And 11 of them still have the death penalty. Some of them still apply. So the whole point, of course, our dream would be to influence those countries. I think we need to have an impact altogether in multilateral spaces of human rights voices like the United Nations, Equal Rights Coalition and other spaces for talk about LGBT rights. If the tactic is to work multilaterally to build coalitions.

It's one of them. One of them. In pursuit of what specific goal, Jessica? Because global equality might be a worthy goal, but that's not a strategy. That's not necessarily achievable within, you know, one person's lifetime. So some of the goals are the decriminalization of homosexual status or conduct in every country on the planet. Full stop. Legal gender identity recognition for every person, trans, non-binary, intersex, and beyond. An end to the practices known as corrective rape, conversion therapy, and an end to the discourse that LGBTQI people are child abusers, are sinners, and are inherently other. I have to interject here because that discourse is becoming more and more widespread in the

United States. When you show up in another country and say this has to end, how often do they point to people in Texas or Florida, powerful politicians who are saying exactly that? The U.S. does not have all the answers. In fact, we have a lot of the problems, the same problems that I see for LGBTQIA plus people in every country on the planet. So instead of focusing on the places where the U.S. still has work to do, we create a shared space to say, okay, what are the best practices? And by and large, every time I lead with that strategy, I met with actually open arms, because humility is a very honest way of recognizing that LGBTQI plus people are attacked in every country on the planet, and we all have work to do.

I'm curious, when you go to other countries bearing this message, do you risk playing into the narrative, which is so common, that homosexuality and trans identity are an invention of the West? I mean, historically, that is false, but that has been a talking point that has been effective in many countries. So do you risk playing into that narrative when you show up from Italy, Argentina, the United States, and try to advance these goals? Not really. I was in Pretoria recently. In South Africa? In South Africa. And in South Africa, there is this very important, in the University of Pretoria, Faculty of Law, there are several Black African openly gay

researchers to do a research on their past, because in Africa there is this narrative. But in the 1,000 tribes of Africa, there were several same-sex marriages. Of course, all this, what you were saying, is true of this kind of narrative, but also the only answer is culture. The only answer is to engage with persons that really try to understand deeply their own culture. And there are.

Most sodomy laws that exist in the world today come as a product of colonialism. So homophobia and anti-trans views, they are a product of Western and colonial imposition. By contrast, LGBTQI people have existed in every country on the planet. You will always find LGBTQI people in art and history if you just pay attention to your own national truth. In elections and when autocrats take power, we often see people target LGBTQI individuals as a starting point for creating division in society and vilifying outsiders. And so I'm curious, does your work have consequences beyond people who identify as LGBTQI? I completely agree.

When this agenda for human rights is a principle for all of us, the truth is when we talk about human rights for LGBT, not everyone wants to work about it. And that is the reason why trans people are under attack in very many spaces. And because not everyone considers trans people with a human right, with the same human right. So I think we have to talk about what makes the difference in the binary system, in the institution, in law, and to access for different rights. 100% agree. This is why my title is like the Jessica title,

is the human rights. And I am also in Italy, I kept the position of president of the Italian Human Rights Council because they wanted to show that we are speaking about the human rights. So you advance in one field, it's an advance for all the fields. You know, Ari, I often say that LGBTQI people are a canary in the coal mine, because when any marginalized and vulnerable group comes under attack, any marginalized or vulnerable group can come under attack. In fact, any person can come under attack. So I fundamentally think it's about universal human rights and the role of law.

I want to end by asking you what was going through your head as you all marched together over the weekend in the New York Pride Parade. Who were you thinking about? What was on your mind? You know, I think about all of the LGBTQI activists who have tried to organize prides and they've been legally banned. They've been attacked with legally banned. They've been attacked with water cannons. They've been attacked with rotten eggs and stones and worse. And I think

about a friend of mine named Kasia Jacqueline, who organized the first ever pride festival in Uganda. And every year she puts on a festival in the face of enormous opposition. So when I was marching in New York City Pride, I was thinking about all the people who don't have that luxury, and I was trying to carry their energy with me. Alba? Well, you know what? In Argentina, now it's winter, so we celebrate the Pride Parade in November. So we have a march, but it's against transfemicides in Argentina. Transfemicide, the killing of trans women. Yeah. So our thinking is about our community because visibility and pride is for our right.

I think that first thing is New York. Everything started in New York. And also, let me tell you just as a private note, when I was in my early 20s, the big difference for me was this famous movie, the Rocky Horror Picture Show. There is a famous song that says, don't dream it, but be it. So when I am marching, I always think, please, we want to change things, let's do it.

And only if you focus on certain issues, you can bring about the change. That is Alba Rueda of Argentina, Fabrizio Petri of Italy, and Jessica Stern of the United States, each a high-level diplomat representing their country on LGBTQI issues around the world. Thanks to all three of you, and happy Pride. Thank you. Thank you. Happy pride. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.