Consider This from NPR - The Lasting Impact Of The January 6th Insurrection

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

It's been two years since rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, leaving an indelible mark on American democracy. We speak to NPR Justice Correspondent Carrie Johnson and NPR Senior Political Correspondent Domenico Montanaro, about how the events of that day continue to impact the country two years later.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University performs breakthrough research every year, making discoveries that improve human health, combat climate change, and move society forward. More at iu.edu slash forward. The Presidential Citizens Medal is a civilian honor, not a military award. But on Friday, in a ceremony at the White House, President Biden framed the 12 newest medal recipients as participants in a battle. Two years ago, on January the 6th, our democracy was attacked. There's no other way of saying it. It was a battle fought in the weeks after the 2020 election, one that culminated in that assault on the U.S. Capitol.

We honor a remarkable group of Americans who embodied the best before, during, and after. Take Rusty Bowers, the Republican former Speaker of the Arizona House. He withstood a push from then-President Trump and his allies to take steps to overturn election results in his state, which voted for Biden. Rusty put his obligation to the Constitution of this country ahead of everything when he refused intense political pressure to decertify the 2020 election results. Or Ruby Freeman, an election worker in Fulton County, Georgia. She faced threats and harassment after Trump launched fabricated accusations of vote rigging against her and her daughter, lies that Trump continued to repeat this week. You don't deserve what happened to you, but you do deserve the nation's eternal thanks for showing the dignity and grace

of we the people. Or Michael Fanone, who was in a literal battle as a D.C. police officer at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th. He was dragged into the crowd and beaten while fighting to hold the line against the mob pushing their way inside. Called a traitor as the mob shouted, if you remember, kill him with his own gun. Kill him with his own gun. But he defended our democracy. Of course, American democracy survived. We, the people, did not flinch. We, the people, endured. We, the people, prevailed. But that day, two years ago, left a deep imprint. For starters, there is the ongoing federal investigation that promises to hold accountable all those responsible for the insurrection at the Capitol.

And the lie that motivated the mob, the idea that the 2020 election was stolen, it is still widespread in Republican politics. Here's Harriet Hageman, who just won Wyoming's seat in the U.S. House. Absolutely, the election was rigged. It was rigged to make sure that President Trump could not get reelected. And of course, the same man who urged the crowd toward the Capitol on January 6th. We're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol. He's now the frontrunner for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination. Consider this. It has been two years since insurrectionists laid siege to the heart of American democracy. The impact of that day is still rippling through the country.

From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It is Friday, January 6th. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time, mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today, or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply. It's Consider This from NPR. The criminal investigation into the attack at the Capitol on January 6th, it's the biggest in the history of the Department of Justice. It has resulted in more than 900 arrests so far, and we still await more arrests and charges and trials. And there is, of course, the question of whether former President Trump violated federal law in his quest to remain in power.

NPR National Justice Correspondent Kerry Johnson and Senior Political Editor and Correspondent Domenico Montanaro are here to lay out the big picture for us. Hey, you two. Hey there. Thanks for having us. Kerry, kick us off by giving us the current tally. Two years from the day, how many people have been arrested and prosecuted? This has been an enormous undertaking, and it's not over yet.

There are more than 950 arrests and nearly 500 guilty pleas so far. Dozens of trials. Many people, hundreds of people, have been sentenced already by judges. Among the most notable is Thomas Webster, a retired New York Police Department official who was found guilty of beating police officers with a flagpole on January 6th. He got a 10-year sentence. Another defendant, Guy Reffitt from Texas, was the first January 6th defendant to take his case to trial in federal court in Washington, D.C. He got more than seven years. The Justice Department says that many, many other cases are ongoing. And then there, of course, have been satellite prosecutions, like of the former

presidential advisor Steve Bannon, who was sentenced to four months in prison for flouting cooperation with the congressional panel investigating what happened on January 6th. And keep going up from Steve Bannon, what of the very top echelon here of former President Trump and his inner circle? There are, of course, so many investigations that can be hard to keep track. Where do they stand? Well, there has been a lot of activity here, but there also has been a lot of demand for more action, demand from people like Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin, a Democrat and a member of the January 6th committee, who talked about that issue at the last public meeting of the panel.

Ours is not a system of justice where foot soldiers go to jail and the masterminds and ringleaders get a free pass. may have violated laws that relate to aiding in insurrection, conspiracy to defraud the U.S., obstruction of a congressional proceeding, and conspiracy to make a false statement related to those fake electors. The Justice Department has been particularly active. We now, as of November, have a special counsel, Jack Smith. He's on the job here in Washington, we learned this week, and he's sifting through lots and lots of material. We know that he's got a lot of material from secretaries of state and officials in

multiple swing states who are at the center of that fake elector scheme. He's also got people looking over witness interviews and transcripts from the January 6th congressional panel, which of course interviewed over a thousand people. Dominica, let me pull you in here, because the political development running in parallel to everything Kerry just told us is that Trump, of course, has announced he's running for president again, despite those January 6th committee findings that point to his direct role in events of two years ago. How should we assess his standing today on the national stage? Well, he's probably at his weakest point, frankly. You know, his endorsements in the elections of the 2022 midterms didn't work out very well in swing states. In primaries, he still has, though, a lot of juice. And because of that, he's got a lot of members of Congress, a lot of base support still on the Republican side.

But his negative numbers haven't moved. He's still as unliked and disapproved by majorities of people as he had been during his presidency. A lot of Republicans now quietly starting to finger point at the former president. And at the same time, because of his strength with the Republican base, he is still the far and away frontrunner to win the 2024 nomination. He's the only declared candidate. A lot of other candidates are going to be walking a very fine line. I want to note that on this two-year anniversary, Republicans have struggled to pick a speaker of the House. And there's overlap in that some of the people blocking Kevin McCarthy are the same people who were prominent in casting doubt on the legitimacy of the 2020 election results.

Domenico, has their political power decreased because of what happened on January 6th, or do you think it's the opposite? Well, you know, it's kind of cutting in two different ways, because in the midterms, clearly, that type of candidate, that sort of extreme election-denying candidate, doesn't work in swing districts, in purple states. But these folks, these kind of real hard right intransigence, come from very, very red districts. And while it's only a few of them, I mean 10% or less of the GOP conference at this point, because of that narrow majority that Republicans have, they're going to hold a lot of sway, they're going to extract a lot of concessions, and they're going to be able to hold up a lot of what's going to be needed to actually run the

Congress and run the country. And things like the debt ceiling, things like budgets being passed, all of that's in jeopardy. Final question for you both in just a couple of sentences. What are you watching for in 2023? What's the biggest thing to look out for? Carrie, you're first. I think the legal status of Mark Meadows will be key. Mark Meadows, of course, was the chief of staff to former President Donald Trump. He knows a lot about what former President Trump said and did before and after January 6th, as well as about what the former president may have done or not done with respect to classified documents that turned up at his resort in Mar-a-Lago in Florida.

And so Mark Meadows, whether he becomes a subject of interest to the Justice Department, or whether he decides to cooperate with the Justice Department will be a key question moving forward in this investigation. Domenico, last word. Yeah, I really feel like in the last two years, the biggest political takeaway is just how dug in people are. You know, the January 6th committee that investigated what happened and pointed the finger pretty strongly at Trump, the people who are paying most close attention to that were Democrats. Republicans seem to cast doubt on those proceedings. And if something like January 6th wasn't going to change people's minds, not much will. And I'm looking toward 2023 because this should be a

primary year, a year where presidential candidates potentially jump in the fray. Will anyone present a serious challenge to Trump? And will Republicans in Congress be able to govern? NPR's Domenico Montanaro and Kerry Johnson, thank you. Pleasure to be here. Thank you. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. This message comes from Indiana University.

Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu.