Consider This from NPR - The World Cup final is set. What did we learn from this year's tournament?

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

After weeks of competition, the World Cup final is set: Argentina and Spain will face off for the coveted title.Sunday's match will be the culmination of the biggest World Cup tournament to date.What has it taught us?For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] episode was produced by Jeffrey Pierre and Tyler Bartlam, with audio engineering by Ted Mebane. Our director is Jonas Adams.It was edited by William Troop and Tinbete Ermyas.Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dorning.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, it's Scott Tetra. A quick note before we start the show. This weekend marks one year since Congress voted to eliminate federal funding for public media. That funding, more than a billion dollars worth, it's gone. But we are still here to help you make sense of this news one story at a time altogether. The NPR network has not backed down on its mission because millions of people rely on this trusted journalism and programming. And your support makes it all possible. So please take a moment to give today at donate.npr.org. Thank you so much. It's considered this where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, we look ahead to the World Cup final.

First, Spain beat France. And then Argentina defeated England. Now, Lionel Messi, Argentina's goat, will face Spain's Wunderkind Laminia Mall in the World. World Cup final. The two have never played against each other, but they have met before. When Messi was 20, he was in a photo shoot with a six-month-old baby. That baby turned out to be the Laminia Mal. These two are going to face each other, leading their teams at very different ages into the greatest game, five billion people watching. In biblical times, it's almost like Abraham Baguette, Isaac. Argentina has a chance to win back-to-back World Cup titles. That is something

that has not happened since Brazil did it in 1958 and 1962. And Spain is chasing its second title. They won back in 2010. Consider this. With 48 teams competing, this year's World Cup was the biggest ever, and there was no shortage of drama on the way to the final. What did this year's tournament teach us? From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow.

It's Consider This from NPR. The men's World Cup final is set. Argentina, the defending champions, will take on Spain. on Sunday. Hundreds of millions of fans will be watching worldwide. Among them, Roger Bennett. He is the founder and CEO of the Men in Blazers Media Network. He is also the man who prophesized many years ago that soccer would one day consume this country. Raj, welcome back to all things considered. Scott Detrow. It's my favorite show. I'm delighted to be here. Has your prophecy come true? Have Americans after this summer of soccer throughout the U.S. Has soccer? Has soccer? Has soccer?

come to consume this country? It's felt like it. We've just completed a coast-to-coast tour in a large orange John Madden-style bus doing huge college game day style pre-game shows in city after city after city. This felt utterly ecstatic. And it remains to be seen.

The tournament's been the storylines on and off the field, utterly beautiful. I think America's falling in love with global football fans, in love with it. But there's a circus, and circuses leave town, so it remains to be seen the lasting legacy of this into the long term. My favorite moment of just how much everyone's gotten into this is

yesterday's match was during all things considered live broadcast, and there are these two-foot-thick walls between the studio and the rest of the newsroom. And I could hear everybody screaming when the second Argentina goal happened through all of those walls in that studio. I've never heard sound in there before, but then I did. It was wild. Soundproofing and destroying it is just one of Lernel Messi's everyday miracles. I want to talk about Spain and Argentina, but first, one more question about kind of what comes next.

There are so many people, and I will say I have fallen into this trap after previous World Cups. You get so excited, you're a casual soccer fan, you want to keep going. You're Googling Champions League schedules. You're subscribing to all the things that stream the games. And then it just kind of falls off. What is your advice for the casual fan who wants to keep this going in this moment? The 1994 Men's World Cup was meant to turn America, which was like space to Captain Kirk, the final frontier, immune to the global game,

into a football-loving nation, a soccer-loving nation. And it was a rapture for a month, and then it did largely fade. But the world's changed, Scott. You know, the internet now connects young Americans to the giant clubs of Arsenal. Liverpool, and there are so many forms of football. Find the one you like. Women's football is an incredible national women's soccer league, which is surging. Men's football, the best is played in Europe.

The Premier League is like a telenovela played out live by 22 men at the time wearing polyester jerseys and cleats. It is absolutely magnificent. The world is in thrall. And the Champions League is where it's like a Star Wars. Cantina where the whole European continent does battle against each other. If you're new, you become hook, those are where, Erlin Harlan, your favourite Norwegian Viking, Shaquille O'Neal and Cleets who charm the entire nation, and then arrived back in Norway with a Texan stuffed

raccoon under his arm, signaling back to us that he loves us and is changed by this experience. He plays in England. You will watch him week after week, destroy all comers. So find your thing. I can't tell you what to find it will sing your name when you tune in and you will fall in love. Yeah. To the World Cup, are Spain and Argentina the two themes you expected to see on Sunday? They both are, you know, these journeys have been utterly biblical. Look, I'd be lying if I predicted this. France played utter champagne football.

They had a late show style high-octane offense that appeared unstoppable until they met Spain. You know, Argentina, make no sense, Scott. This is a cardiac team, a chaos team, a team that play with complete a nutter emotion in a sporting world where you meant to drain emotion, be focused, be tactical. They do none of that. They look vulnerable. They look out of games. And then suddenly because they have this 39-year-old mystical quasi-religious figure at this point,

Lionel Messi in their midst, they will rise up late and perform everyday miracles as they did in coming from behind yet again to stun England. For them to face Spain, this is organization, this is tactics, this is systems, Spain, against the complete opposite in Argentina. We're blessed to see this battle, and it is. As Steve Kornacki would say, it's too close to court. It's almost like when the lava flows into the ocean, these two totally opposite teams hitting each other.

That's exactly what it is. The Argentina squad, it almost feels like they're testing themselves, like what if we didn't really lock in until the 80th minute, the 85th minute. Let's press it even more. Like each game, it's more and more shocking. It is, none of it makes sense. It is almost a divine magic. And it's, you know, the incredible thing about this final is that the star of both teams, 39-year-old Lionel Messi, 19-year-old Spaniard, Laminia Mal, incredibly. It looks like AI. Many of your listeners will have seen it by complete chance when Messi was 20. He was in a photo shoot with a six-month-old baby. That six-month-old baby turned out to be Laminia Mal.

And now when you look at it, these two are going to face each other, leading their teams at very different ages into the greatest game, five billion people watching around the world. I could not believe that photograph was real when I first saw it. It's amazing. It makes no sense. I just did an interview with John Oliver where he said it makes no sense unless we find out that Linumessi, age 20, just realized that the only way that he could break the pressure of being a professional footballer was just by calmly bathing thousands of random babies.

Just kept him pure. So either way, it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Do you want to venture a prediction for Sunday? That would be a brave, brave man. Watching what he did to England, I have never seen anything like it in sports. The athletic worked out that Lionel Messi walks for 63% of the time. He stands still for another 25% of the time on the field.

But it's what he does in that quite alchemic remaining 12%, which makes him almost like watching Mozart in our day, watching Michelangelo's sculpt. People will be talking about this man for centuries to come. I would never bet against Lilal Mets. messy. And if at the final whistle, Argentina, when we will see a man before our eyes turn into a demi-god. There you go. That was none other than Roger Bennett, the founder and CEO of the men in Blazers Media Network. Roger, thank you for coming on. Enjoy these last few days. And I hope

you can get some sleep starting Sunday night. We'll sleep after the final. And big love to all of you at NPR. Thanks for having me on. This episode was produced by Jeff Pierre and Tyler Bartlam. It was edited by William Troop and Tinbeat Armius. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dorney. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.