Consider This from NPR - Trump isn’t talking about deportations, but they’re still happening

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

The Trump administration hasn't been talking much about its mass deportation policy, but that doesn't mean efforts have stopped.Back in February, support for President Trump’s mass deportation policy had plummeted. Two thirds of Americans polled by NPR said immigration enforcement had gone too far after agency officers killed two American citizens in Minneapolis.The Trump administration has spent the past several months trying to regain public support ahead of the upcoming midterm elections.But what has actually changed about the policy?For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] episode was produced by Tyler Bartlam. It was edited by Kelsey Snell, Tinbete Ermyas and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

It's consider this where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, the state of the Trump administration's immigration policy. It was his signature campaign promise. Here's all we're going to do. It's going to be called a Trump mass deportation because we have no choice. Once in office, federal agents fanned out across the country and implementation began. The Department of Homeland Security says Operation Midway Blitz is underway in Chicago. Then came January 2026 when ICE and Border Patrol agents were deployed to Minneapolis.

Tensions are high in Minneapolis today. A day after an ICE agent shot and killed 37-year-old Renee Good as she sat in her car. On Saturday, immigration officers shot dead Alex Prettie, a 37-year-old U.S. citizen protesting the ICE operation. The shootings seem to turn the public against the administration's immigration strategy. That's what an NPR PBS News Maris Poll found in February. Two-thirds say federal law enforcement agents have gone too far. That's up significantly since last summer. 61% disapprove of ICE immigration and customs enforcement. And 62% think ICE is making Americans less safe.

And it didn't take long before Department of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Noem was fired and new leadership came in. Since then, immigration has largely been out of the headlines, but that doesn't mean deportations have stopped. Here's White House Borders are Tom Homan. We're going to continue with this mission. We're not giving an inch. We're going to enforce laws to this country without apology. Consider this. The Trump administration hasn't been talking much about its mass deportation policy,

but that doesn't mean efforts have stopped. From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. It's Consider This from NPR. Back in February, support for President Trump's mass deportation policy had plummeted. Since then, enforcement tax. have increasingly shifted from public view. But what is actually changed when it comes to Trump's goals and tactics? NPR immigration correspondent Jimenez-Bustillo and White House correspondent Franco Ordonez, join me now to dig into this. Hello to both of you. Hey, Elsa. Hey, Elsa. All right, Jimena, let's start with you. If last year was the year of immigration raids and city takeovers, how would you characterize this new phase of Trump's immigration plan?

The new phase is really just new leadership. Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen, former senator of Oklahoma, is just over a month into this new job. And it's a position that he was nominated for after President Trump removed Christy Nome in the middle of the fallout of these large enforcement operations, particularly in Minneapolis. Now, Mullen pitched himself as a leader that could pull the agency out of the headlines. Here he is in an interview with Newsmax. We're purposely trying to be a little bit more quiet. I've made this very clear when we were moving forward with my nomination that I wanted to get DHS out of the headlines. Hmm. Purposely trying to be a little more quiet. Franco, what has that meant? Yeah, I mean, it actually means like no more headline grabbing sweeps in Minneapolis and other cities. It's less talk about, quote, mass deportation.

But really behind the scenes and operationally, the system is still expanding. I mean, Trump is pushing Congress, particularly Senate Republicans, to continue to move on legislation that would add billions for enforcement. The administration is pushing for more legal authorities. I mean, what clearly is happening as evidenced by Mullen's comments, is a softening of the messaging. But if you look at the bigger picture, the broader one, the administration continues to move forward and aggressively so. Interesting. OK, well, Hima, on the ground, in reality, what has that involved so far? Border Patrol Chief Michael Banks and ICE acting director Todd Lyons are amongst the people in leadership who are stepping away from their positions this month.

Now, agency officials do say that thousands are still being arrested every week. And we are seeing the administration also move forward with things like the pauses of reviews of immigrant applications that have resulted in people losing status or work permits. So they are essentially full steam ahead still, even as we're seeing these broader changes in leadership. And the policies, therefore, are then still the same, even if they are not having those made-for-TV moments that Franco has described. And this emphasis on messaging, even though the policies are still the same, Franco, is this just about the negative approval ratings? Or is there more to this? Well, I mean, I'd say politically, a lot of this is actually tied to the upcoming midterms. I mean, those early raids really created a lot of headaches for the administration.

the widespread protest, their lawsuits, I mean, the bad imagery on TV, civilian deaths. I mean, all that impacted polls and support. And then you add to the mix that Congress is debating tens of billions of dollars in enforcement. Those dynamics, they just feed off of each other. Absolutely. But can we just put this in context? Because they got like $75 billion last year. And now Congress wants to give them enough money to avoid having to come back for more for three. years, what does all of that money get them? So the $75 billion is also only for immigration and customs enforcement. That's not even counting billions more that Border Patrol is getting. But essentially for ICE, we can divide this up into two buckets. So one bucket is money for more staff and personnel. And the second bucket is to increase detention space and capacity. About $45 billion of that $75 is just for detention space. Okay. And what else is doing? know about how they're actually spending all of this money. Yeah, I mean, I saw this in action last

week when I was at the Border Security Expo in Phoenix, Arizona, where I saw dozens of private companies coming to show off their new technology and gear that ICE and Border Patrol could be interested in buying. One top ICE official even said during a panel that especially with the potential of three-year funding coming from Congress, he has a shopping list and he is ready. Now, they have also said that they hired 12,000 people just for ICE. Many of those are deportation officers, but about 2,000 lawyers to represent the agency in immigration court and additional other investigators. They're also looking for ways to expand that detention capacity I mentioned. We're seeing still historic high numbers of people in immigration detention. And the administration,

as we know, began buying warehouses earlier this year to convert them into detention facilities. as well as utilizing private prison contracts. Well, Franco, immigration was such a huge part of the 2024 campaign. And Trump has boasted that it was one of the issues that actually won him the White House again. So is immigration still popular with the Republican base? Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's very popular with the base. But it's also true that the issue has become more complicated for all the reasons that we're discussing. I mean, even some Republicans are concerned about how the enforcement was being carried out.

So it's a shift in methods, not goals, it's more political but not ideological. I mean, immigration continues to be an issue that Republicans can count on. They still pull ahead of Democrats on immigration. And that's really important right now for Republicans, especially with all the other challenges they face heading into these midterms. Those are concerns about economy, affordability challenges, and of course, the lack of enthusiasm. Okay. Well, if the base is still with Trump, why are Republicans still concerned? Well, I mean, the base is with Trump, but it's unclear how much of the base will actually show up in the midterms. When Trump is not on the ballot, the base just doesn't turn out in the same way. That enthusiasm is not the same. And that means more moderate Republicans and especially independents will play a more significant role. And those voters are broadly more concerned about these enforcement measures, as well as the economy and other issues.

Right. And both parties right now are grappling with how to frame the issue of immigration. You know, Democrats are. seeing an opportunity to take a grab on the issue that was a major loser for them in 2024, particularly when pivoting to talking about enforcement tactics. But Republicans are also trying to figure out how to make the mass deportation strategy appealing to voters, especially after the chaotic start to the year. That is MPR's Jimenez-Bustillo and Franco Ordonez. Thank you to both of you. Thank you.

This episode was produced by Tyler Bartlam. It was edited by Kelsey Snell, Timby Armius, and Corto. Dorney, our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang.