Consider This from NPR - Trump says the U.S. will 'own' Gaza — what that could mean for the Middle East

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

The Gaza Strip – ground zero of Israel's war with Hamas – is only about twice the size of Washington, DC. It has about 25 miles of coastline along the Mediterranean Sea, with a population of about 2 million people. Last week, President Trump proposed relocating those people to other countries in the region, like Egypt and Jordan.Trump has said the Palestinians would not be allowed to return: UN officials and others say Trump's plan would amount to ethnic cleansing. Despite domestic and international concerns that the U.S. is empire building, Trump continues to double down on his plans for the U.S. to "own" Gaza.Trump says the U.S. is going to take over Gaza, though he offers few specifics. What could the proposal mean for Palestinians and the broader Middle East? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.orgEmail us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The Gaza Strip, ground zero of Israel's war with Hamas, is only about twice the size of Washington, D.C. It has about 25 miles of coastline along the Mediterranean Sea with a population of about 2 million people. And last week... The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too. President Trump proposed relocating those people to other countries in the region, like Egypt and Jordan. We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous, unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site. Level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings, level it out. Trump has said the Palestinians would not be allowed to return.

UN officials and others say Trump's plan would amount to ethnic cleansing. And despite domestic and international concerns that the U.S. is empire building, Trump continues to double down on his plans for the U.S. to own Gaza. He brought it up in the Oval Office on Tuesday while sitting next to the King of Jordan. King Abdullah was asked directly what he thought of Trump's plan. Just to follow up with one on that for King Abdullah, can you clarify again, sir, how do you feel about the U.S. taking Gaza, as the president said? Well, again, this is something that we as Arabs will be coming to the United States

with something that we're going to talk about later to discuss all these options. Consider this. Trump says the U.S. is going to take over Gaza, though he offers few specifics. What could the proposal mean for Palestinians and the broader Middle East? From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Consider This from NPR. President Trump continues to insist that the US will take over Gaza, that its residents will be moved to what Trump calls a beautiful location with new houses.

Many people have reacted with horror, including Democratic Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen last week on MSNBC. This isn't just like a paper violation of international law. It is ethnic cleansing by another name, and it will certainly embolden our adversaries. NPR's Kat Lonsdorf joins us from Tel Aviv. She has been following all of this closely and hearing from Palestinians in Gaza. Hi Kat.

Hey Ari. Let's start with that moment in the Oval Office on Tuesday afternoon. You had Trump insisting that this will happen and King Abdullah of Jordan not exactly saying no, but not saying yes either. What have leaders of Egypt and Jordan been saying? Yeah, like you said, King Abdullah was reticent on TV and careful not to make any kind of

commitment. Both Jordan and Egypt have outright rejected Trump's plan, but Trump has made threats of cuts in US aid and military spending to both. Both Egypt and Jordan depend heavily on US support. Abdullah is in a tough place here, which is why he was so cautious. He said he had to discuss the idea with other regional leaders, but there are no Arab leaders in the region who support this plan. It's possible that Abdullah and others are hoping Saudi Arabia, which is richer and more

powerful, will talk Trump out of it. The Saudis were the first in the region to reject it and very swiftly. In the week since Trump stood next to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and threw out the idea, a shaky ceasefire in Gaza has become more shaky. What impact has Trump's proposal had? So Trump's proposal for Gaza hasn't directly come up in the current back and forth between

Israel and Hamas, but it's certainly in the background. The US taking over Gaza and relocating all of the Palestinians from there is not part of the ceasefire agreement. The ceasefire agreement took months to hammer out and the US, including members of Trump's own administration, helped broker it. So there's a lot of confusion on how this ceasefire agreement can actually proceed if Trump keeps pushing this controversial plan. So those are the broad political dynamics.

All of this discussion centers on the people of Gaza who have already suffered war, displacement and are now beginning to return to areas that may be all but destroyed. So what are you hearing from people on the ground there? Yeah, for the most part, Palestinians we've heard from there say they want to stay in Gaza, despite the destruction and difficult living conditions they're faced with right now.

Many feel like they've struggled throughout this entire war for Gaza to stay there, and they're not about to be forced off the land now. Here's 29-year-old Bassam Mohammed Abder-Roof. He talked to NPR's producer in Gaza, Anas Baba, while standing amidst the ruins of the main square in Gaza City. Even if there was a place that was a million times better,

I would still live among the rubble and the tents, he says. It's hard to describe my love for Gaza, he says. Another person Anas Baba talked to in Gaza City was Nahed Ghanem. He's a surgeon at one of the hospitals there. This is my homeland, he says, and I have no intention to leave, even if Trump provides me with the best of everything somewhere else. He went on to point out that the graves of his family killed during the war are in Gaza, and he won't leave them, and that his children were also killed and remain buried under the rubble in Gaza.

Have you heard from anyone there who does want to leave? Yeah, we have. Like you said, Gaza is largely destroyed, and life there is really difficult right now. Here's 30-year-old Yahya Barakat. He said he would leave if given the chance. My home is gone. My life is gone.

My future is gone, he says. If I can find a country that embraces me, provides me with safety, I will go. It's important to note that as of right now, Palestinians can't leave Gaza and haven't been able to for much of the war. It's an area surrounded by walls and fences and then the sea on one side,

and Israel controls who gets in or out. So the idea that anyone could just leave isn't realistic and hasn't been for quite a while. There is a fraught history behind Palestinians being relocated. How does that factor into what you're hearing from people? The idea of being relocated is a very emotional

and unsettling one for Palestinians. Historically, Palestinians have been displaced or forcibly moved from their land and then never been allowed to return, including most Palestinians living in Gaza right now. They're refugees from what was once Palestinian land and is now Israel. So adding to that controversy in Trump's plan is whether or not Palestinians would be allowed to return to Gaza if they did leave. Trump administration officials have been calling it

a temporary move for now, but then in a Fox News interview with Brett Baier that aired Monday, Trump said this. Think of it as a real estate development for the future. It would be a beautiful piece of land. Would the Palestinians have the right to return? No, they wouldn't. No, they wouldn't have the right to return, he said, which really put Palestinians and others watching this on high alert. Well, we know that Netanyahu thinks this is a good idea.

What are other Israelis saying? Netanyahu's far-right allies are praising Trump's plan. Pushing Palestinians out of Gaza is something that they've been proposing for a while. But the average Israeli is much more focused on keeping the ceasefire deal going and getting the rest of the Israeli hostages out of Gaza. A large majority of Israelis support the ceasefire continuing.

And there's a feeling among a lot of them that this sudden proposal for the U.S. to take over Gaza and all of the confusion and emotions that come with it is distracting from that goal. And Paris Katlansdorf in Tel Aviv, thank you. Thank you, Ari. This episode was produced by Me Event Cat. It was edited by Courtney Dornig, James Heider, and Nadia Lancy. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Consider This sponsor free through Amazon Music, or Shapiro.