Consider This from NPR - Trump was found guilty on all counts. What comes next?

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

After a trial that lasted 21 days and a deliberation that took less than ten hours, a Manhattan jury found former President Donald Trump guilty on all 34 criminal felony counts of falsifying business records.Trump says he will appeal the charges, but there are still implications for him, and his ongoing presidential campaign for the 2024 election.So what grounds does Trump have to appeal these charges? And how long could it take to play out? Attorney and NYU law professor Andrew Weissmann joins Ari Shapiro to map out what the next phase of the Trump trial will look like.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

We are looking now, it looks like we have some of the verdicts coming in. It is quickly coming in here. Guilty. Count 23. Guilty. Count 24. Guilty. Count 25. Guilty. Count 26. After a trial that lasted 21 days and a deliberation that took less than 10 hours, a Manhattan jury found former President Donald Trump guilty on all 34 criminal felony counts of falsifying business records. The presumptive Republican nominee addressed the charges in the lobby of Trump Tower Friday morning. As far as the trial itself, it was very unfair. Unfair or not, the conviction triggers a series of events for the former president,

some immediate, others long-term. This conviction is historic. Trump is now the first current or former president ever labeled a felon. But it puts him on a path that others convicted of similar crimes have faced before. Like sentencing. Presiding Judge Juan Merchan is scheduled to sentence Trump at 10 a.m. on July 11th. Before that happens, there is a pre-sentencing interview when a psychologist, social worker, or probation officer interviews the former president. Then comes the pre-sentencing report

with input from the defense and recommendations for sentencing. Judge Marchand could sentence Trump to probation or up to four years on each criminal count with a maximum sentence of 20 years. One thing the conviction does not do is stop him from running for president. There is no constitutional prohibition against felons running for president or against serving a term in office while serving a term in prison. A more complicated question is whether Trump can vote for himself.

He's a Florida resident registered to vote there. Florida requires felons to complete their full sentence, whether that's parole or imprisonment, before they can vote. No matter how things proceed, that is unlikely to happen in the next five months. Consider this. The guilty verdict in Donald Trump's hush money trial answers one question, but it raises others that could affect the future of Donald Trump, the office of the president, and the entire country. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Consider This from NPR. Former President Donald Trump has been convicted on all 34 charges in his criminal hush money trial. So now the post-trial phase begins. Sentencing is July 11th. And Trump has said he'll appeal the verdict. Attorney Andrew Weissman is an

NYU law professor and was a lead prosecutor in the Mueller investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. We talked about what an appeal could look like and how the next several weeks could play out. Well, let's dive right into what's next for former President Trump. He addressed reporters this morning and said his legal team will appeal the verdict. What does the appeals process entail? Sure. Well, you know, first, everyone needs to understand as much as Donald Trump has denigrated the criminal justice system, he had a fair trial, he had a jury, a judge, eminent defense counsel, and at this point, he will have a sentencing happening on July 11th. And at that point, he is have a sentencing happening on July 11th. And at that point, he is entitled to appeal. He can't appeal now. He has to first get sentenced. And that takes

the sentencing is going to be quick. But the actual appeal process can take many, many months. For instance, in the civil fraud case where he was unsuccessful, that was an expedited appeal, and that's not being heard until September. So that gives you some data point on which to see that the appeals process takes a while. But in part of that, he will have an opportunity to submit any and all errors that he thinks occurred in his trial, whether factual or legal. Can you talk us through what some of the possible avenues of appeal might be? What are some of the issues that his team might raise? He could raise an issue with respect to what's called the bump up. In other words, what made this a felony as opposed to a misdemeanor.

There were various theories that the state put forward and were submitted to the jury, obviously with permission of the trial court that ruled in favor of the DA. But those could be raised on appeal to say that not all of them, or any of them maybe, were valid. For instance, one was a federal election crime. In other words, if he had false business records with the intent to cover up or promote a federal election crime, that was one of the theories that the jury was allowed to decide on. Another theory was a state election crime. A third theory was state tax crime. And so Donald Trump can say any or all of those are impermissible factors. Other than that, I think that this is a very clean trial. The judge ruled in favor of

Donald Trump on a number of issues. He obviously ruled in favor of the state on various issues. But I think in terms of the evidence and the way in which the trial occurred, I don't see a lot of appellate issues. But that's what the appellate courts are for, is that a defense lawyer will make his or her best arguments. But as I said, I think the legal one may be the strongest. And just in case people are confused about this, because the case is not in federal court, we're not talking about an appeals process that would ultimately lead up to the Supreme Court. This is an entirely different channel. That is absolutely right. This is entirely within a separate sovereign, which is the state system, in this case, New York State. So the Supreme Court of the United States should

not be getting involved. And many people might wonder, gee, if the Supreme Court were to say there's immunity for a current or former president, that also should have no effect on this case, because I think by all accounts, everything that was charged here and is alleged and has now been found by the jury unanimously was all about conduct that is personal in nature, that was not conduct that was undertaken by Donald Trump when he was president in his capacity as president. So the sentence could range from probation to four years per offense up to 20 years maximum. What do you think the judge is likely to impose? I don't know. But I do think that you will hear from the state that they will raise factors that go to things that judges consider, such as the risk of recidivism and the lack of remorse. And in that regard, it will be relevant that Donald Trump has violated a gag order

10 times and has been found to have done so, that he threatened witnesses, jurors, judges, and family members of judges and prosecutors. His history with respect to having been found to have committed fraud civilly, his history with respect to the tax offense that this judge actually oversaw, which was a conviction of two Trump entities two years ago. All of that can be factored in. So I think all of those will be things that I suspect that we will hear from the state as to why it would be a condign sentence to have some form of jail imposed here. That was attorney and NYU law professor Andrew Weissman. This episode was produced by Brianna Scott and Catherine Fink. It was edited by Courtney Dorney. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. And thanks to our Consider This Plus supporters

who make the journalism you hear on this show possible. Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. Learn more at plus.npr.org. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.