Consider This from NPR - What a day in immigration court is like now

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

The Trump administration is deploying a new strategy to speed up deportations. Government lawyers are asking immigration judges to dismiss on-going cases. Then, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents arrest people as soon as they step out of the courtroom. The process is often chaotic. And for immigrants without legal status, it's also very risky. NPR immigration policy reporter Ximena Bustillo went to an immigration court in New York City to see how that process unfolds – and found herself experiencing some of the chaos firsthand.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] episode was produced by Sarah Ventre, Avery Keatley and Connor Donevan, with audio engineering by Jimmy Keeley. It was edited by Anna Yukhananov and William Troop. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's a recent morning in Lower Manhattan, and Teddy Ogborne, along with a group of volunteers, are trying to get people a moment of peace before they head into the building at 26 Federal Plaza. We're offering, like, a space in the park with mutual aid and, like, spots to just, like, sit and have a coffee and chat and take a breather because it's really stressful and traumatic what can happen in there. The building houses immigration courts, and some of the people heading inside will stand before a judge and learn whether or not they are permitted to stay in the U.S. As Ogborne and the volunteers give out coffee, they're also collecting contact information. They want to provide, you know, any information with us so that we can, like, check in where they're at with the system to know whether they've been detained or basically disappeared inside so that we can get in touch like an emergency contact. Disappeared. That's exactly how some immigration advocates describe what happens inside this building. Because the Trump administration is deploying a new strategy to speed up deportations. Government lawyers are asking immigration judges to dismiss ongoing cases.

But then immigration and customs enforcement agents are arresting people as soon as they step out of the courtroom and putting them in a new expedited removal process. These are not people who have been accused of any crime. That is New York City controller Brad Lander, who's one of many Democrats criticizing this practice. These are people who are complying with the law by coming to court. So it is an abominable waste of resources. In a legal brief opposing the arrests, the city put it this way. Quote, our judicial system cannot work as it should, as it must, if courthouses are used as traps. The Trump administration argues that courthouse arrests are common sense.

They conserve law enforcement resources because officers don't have to go looking for a target. And they're safer because the immigrants will have gone through court security and will have been screened for weapons. The upshot of all of this is that for immigrants without legal status, immigration hearings bring huge risks, whether they show up or not. The Department of Homeland Security's top spokesperson, Trisha McLaughlin, confirmed as much in an interview with PBS. They could be arrested and deported, especially if you have been here less than two years. You are eligible for expedited removal. We encourage you to go to your immigration hearing or else you will absolutely get a final deportation order and you will be arrested and deported.

Consider this. Immigration courts have become epicenters of the president's mass deportation plan. NPR went to see how that looks from the inside. From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. It's considered this from NPR. Many immigrants in this country are in a sort of legal limbo. They don't have full legal status, but they're somewhere along a legal procedure that will end in them either getting legal status or being subject to deportation. Hearings in immigration courts are where that process normally plays out. And as we mentioned, under the Trump administration, the immigration courts have also become a sort of funnel, bringing immigrants into the path of federal agents ready to arrest them.

NPR immigration policy reporter Jimenez-Bustillo wanted to see how all of this is actually unfolding. So she went there to an immigration court in New York City. I'm standing outside 26 federal plaza in lower Manhattan. There are barriers blocking portions of the street, police cars lined up, and a mix of people making their way into the building. Many of them are dressed in nice clothes and are clutching files of paperwork for their hearings. There are also activists, community members, journalists, and sometimes even elected officials and clergy. It's quite chaotic, and there's a palpable anxiety. I'm here in New York because two federal buildings have become notorious for violent scenes of people being detained by masked federal agents,

and their job is to make arrests of people coming in for routine immigration court appointments. As I go inside those same federal buildings in Lower Manhattan, it's quiet today. Lawyers and immigration advocates inside say people are afraid. Benjamin Remy, an immigration lawyer, is in court almost every day. Now, many are too scared to show up, he says. People are being put into an absolutely impossible situation, right? They're being forced to gamble, their own liberty versus potentially continuing with their case, continuing with their claim.

So in terms of a reduction in the amount of people showing up, absolutely, absolutely. The Manhattan courthouse halls have been one of the epicenters of such a war. The scuffles have gone on for weeks. Members of the public have been pushed out by federal officials who say that they're making it harder for them to work. Here, you can hear the protests against the arrests. Earlier in the month, the building was cleared out after immigration officers found an unknown white powder in their offices. Officials say it came with a threatening note telling officers, quote, nobody can escape from karma, not even you.

The regular threats of violence and arrests contribute to the court's overall vibe of disorganization. The noise of individual migrants' cases can be heard out of open doors, people nervously tapping their feet in other places those waiting cry. A woman tells me that she's here for her husband who was afraid that he would be detained if he came in person.

And one-by-one migrants from Colombia, Guyana, India, admit to being in the country illegally. They have to return for their next appointments in 2029. A date, four years from now, has become a regular feature in courts across the country as immigration judges juggle a 3.7 million case backlog. John Sera Bella from the New Sanctuary Coalition has been coming to these courts once a week for six months, and he says it wasn't always this way. There weren't any ice stations in the very beginning, and in the past six months it's increasing. And their strategy and their tactics have become more and more aggressive and assertive

over the past six months. He said he sees arrests almost every time he comes. The scene in these courts is replayed every day on each floor, while the judge takes through the same set of questions federal agents mill in the doorways. They're wearing masks and sunglasses. Periodically, they can be seen escorting someone around the corner once their hearing is over.

Those people then disappear, likely, into an ICE detention center. That was NPR's Jimenez-Bustillo reporting there. And Jimenez joins us now for more on this story. Hi, Jimena. Hi, Elsa. So I understand that you personally experienced some uncertainty of not knowing who's in charge inside these courtrooms or even who's allowed public access. What happened to you exactly? On some floors of the building, we were told that we couldn't even be in public spaces, limited only to the blue carpet in front of elevators because we were journalists.

So we can be. like in the blue? Yeah, that's it. But we can't be in the halls? No. Can I be in the hall if she stays in the blue? No, you guys are press, no. Press is, what about public? Public, yes. On other floors, we were told we could be in waiting areas, but not recording. And other times, we were told to completely leave. While I was sitting in a courtroom at 290 Broadway in the middle of a public hearing, I was told to leave, even though the judge had said her chambers were open to the public, including the press. Wait, so were you allowed back in? The court clerk a few minutes later did allow me to come back in, and federal agents who had originally asked me to leave were still lingering in the doorway, looking inside the room. And keep in mind that this is all happening

while someone's immigration hearing is still ongoing. And you can hear a court official then come over and slam the door on the agents. The agents start banging on the door to be let back in. There's a clear tension over, who exactly is in charge here. Is it the courts? Is it ICE? Or is it court security

who is contracted by a totally different part of DHS? I spoke with Remy, the immigration lawyer, about this tension between agencies, and here's what he said. It's just to see this institution

that we've been arguing cases in, that we've been representing people in for years and years, essentially just be eviscerated by the Department of Homeland Security in a matter of months has been absolutely surreal.

And Jimena, I understand that you went back the next day. Can you explain what happened then? Like, did you have another confrontation? I went back to the same floor the next morning. And court security this time allowed me to walk around and sit where I wanted to in the public spaces. And as I was doing this, I noticed a man in a green plaid shirt, jeans, and a cap. And he was sitting among those waiting to be called for their hearings. But it appeared that he was undercover law enforcement since he later joined about five other agents, most masked, with vests labeled police or just federal police. And let me paint the scene of what happened next. At one point, I opened the double doors to go into the hall and almost run into the agents.

That plaid-shirted man turns around and yells at me to stop effing following him. I identify myself as a journalist and say I'm in a public space. Then a court observer starts getting into it with the same man and she says she is not effing following him. He grabs her arm and at this point I take a little bit. my phone out and start recording. You can hear her ask, why are you shoving me? You can hear her ask, why are you shoving me? Him asking, why are you following me? Her say that I'm not following you, and he says, hands behind your back. He takes her into a service elevator bay, and the yelling continues for a few minutes.

I can't see what's happening, but I can hear what sound like handcuffs. Within minutes, they all leave down the elevator. And I still don't know what happened to the court observer or even her name. I'm trying to find it. Wow. I mean, Haman, what do you think the big picture takeaway is here from everything that you have seen in these courtrooms in New York? You know, immigrant advocates say what I witnessed counts as quiet days in those buildings. But it also, you know, shows how easy it is for regular people to get caught.

up in this, a journalist who turns the corner at the wrong moment or a court observer that catches an agent, you know, when he has a lot of tension running through him. The agency that's in charge of immigration courts referred questions on building access to DHS and declined to comment on questions regarding the incidents and clashes between public press and law enforcement in their spaces that at this point have been ongoing for weeks. I reached out to DHS and I did not get a response. You know, this example shows just how often the rules are changing and how who is in charge can really change on a given day and a given person. And immigrants and others are often caught in the crosshairs. That is NPR immigration policy reporter Hima Bustillo. Thank you so much, Hima. Thank you.

This episode was produced by Sarah Ventry, Avery Keatley, and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Jimmy Keene. Healy. It was edited by Anna Yucanonov and William Troop. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigin. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Consider This sponsor-free through Amazon music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get Consider This Plus at plus.npr.org. That's plus.npr.org. That's plus.npr.com. org.