Consider This from NPR - What does it take to run a free, fair and peaceful election?

Episode Date: October 20, 2024

Millions of ballots are tabulated at the Maricopa County Tabulation Center in Phoenix, Arizona. Inside and out, the building is a fortress.It's the legacy of the 2020 election when armed protestors gathered outside the building on election night. After Arizona was called for Joe Biden there were months of allegations about voter fraud.At a time when election results are routinely challenged, candidates cry foul and protesters threaten violence...what does it take to run an election? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Right outside the place where millions of election ballots get tabulated. And if you look up, you will see that it would be a really bad idea to climb the fence here. So the fence you're standing in front of is about a six and a half foot fence, and this was added post-2020. I see the very sharp spikes at the end of each post on this fence. Is that on purpose? A little intentional, a little imposing, but also... Taylor Kinnerup is on the communications team for county elections. She's showing us around the Maricopa County Tabulation and Election Center

here in Phoenix. That's MCTEC for short. And let's just say you managed to maneuver over this spiky fence without getting impaled. Well, then you would have to contend with this. But it's a chain link fence. And then in front of that, we have the concrete K-rails. Those are additional barriers we add during an active election time. So how many barriers are we talking, like layers of walls and gates and fences? Multiple barriers. We have three fences per se.

And then once you get inside, we also have additional guards. They got the guards. They got the guards, they got the metal detectors, the doors that only unlock with special badges, the secure cages that store the ballots. Oh, and don't forget to look up. If you smile right now, we are on live stream cameras. Hello. Hello. That's right. 24 hour video surveillance that any member of the public can watch online. Pretty quickly, you come to realize that this place is one massive fortress, especially on Election Day. This will be even more of a citadel where we have sheriff's deputies on horseback patrolling the facility. We'll have non-uniformed officers in and out of the building, as well as throughout the county.

We have FBI agents on the ground. We will have SWAT on the roof, and we will have snipers on adjacent roofs. And this is a closed airspace. Did you just say snipers? Correct. Wow. That's where we're at now. That's where we're at now because on the last presidential election night,

chaos erupted at this building. Armed protesters gathered outside. Right-wing provocateur Alex Jones showed up. And then after Arizona was called for Joe Biden, there were months of allegations about voter fraud, about problems with the voting machines and the vote count. There were so many investigations, so much litigation. It's no wonder four years later, the Maricopa County elections team knows it can't take any chances. Consider this. At a time when election results are routinely challenged, candidates cry foul and protesters threaten violence. What does it take to run an election?

From NPR, I'm Elsa Chang. and invite important guests on who have no business being there, then you should check out NPR's How to Do Everything. It's hosted by two of the minds behind Wait, Wait, who literally sometimes put words in my mouth. Find the How to Do Everything podcast wherever you are currently listening to me go on about it. On NPR's Wildcard podcast, comedian Seth Meyers talks frankly about his early career. I was far more temperamental when I was younger, and things ran very hot at Essendale. And there were definitely times where my instincts were to say something that would have been relationship-ending to people. I'm Rachel Martin. Seth Meyers is on Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation.

This message comes from the Kresge Foundation. Established 100 years ago, the Kresge Foundation works to expand equity and opportunity in cities across America. A century of impact, a future of opportunity. More at Kresge.org. It's Consider This from NPR. The Maricopa County elections team has to pay attention to the most minute, often the most mundane and boring details of election administration. Thank you for that charitable description of my profession. This is Stephen Richer, a Republican elected to the office of county recorder in 2020, which means, along with obsessing about details like the thickness of ballot paper and which envelopes best fit that paper, he's in charge of early voting.

That's a big deal since this county expects the vast majority of its 2.1 million ballots to be cast early. When we talk about large election jurisdictions, Maricopa County looms significantly because we're the second largest voting jurisdiction and we're politically competitive. Second largest in the country. A lot of Richer's preparation for 2024 began his very first week on the job in 2021, he took office just a couple days before January 6th. What did that feel like to be watching from Maricopa County what was happening at the U.S. Capitol? Well, not just happening at the U.S. Capitol, happening at our offices. What happened here? On my third day in office, when I was still learning how to use my email system or how to dial out of the office,

I had to send an email to say, everyone, you should work from home because we had protesters outside of some of our offices, people who were using some of the same guillotine imagery that was used at the Capitol here in Arizona. And it was weird just because, one, I didn't think something like that could happen in the United States and you're watching it on TV and you're not even really know how to process it. But it was quickly impressed upon me just how much of a, this conversation was not going to end. I'm so curious what your state of mind was like, what you were feeling about your own safety, the safety of your family? I was frustrated.

I was frustrated that I felt like I was already being put between a rock and a hard place. I was very angry that we'd created this dynamic where we were turning on each other within the Republican Party and where you couldn't win, especially if you were an election official. You received some pretty serious threats to your life and safety, right? Yep. Let's talk about that. What kind of threats? You know, in person, you have people who come up and, you know, they jostle you, they push you, they bang on your windshield. So many emails, social media messages. I mean, the garden variety is you're a traitor and you're going to hang and get Mo. I mean, didn't one state party official talk about you getting lynched or you should be getting lynched in the video?

I mean, at that point, because that was in 2024, I was sort of numb to it. But what was sad about that one was that when she said that, people were cheering. That's not heartwarming as somebody who would prefer to not be lynched. I read that you got voicemails on your cell phone telling you to run and hide. Run and hide. You're not going to make it to your next meeting. We're going to go after your kids. Guy in Texas who's now in jail, I want to put that Jew in the oven so badly that I can taste it. Wow. Yeah. I'm sorry I keep asking about your feelings, but how does that feel?

You know, when those calls were made, they would be made during some pretty emotional times, and so it's harrowing. And then you sort of look around, who are the Republican elected officials saying, like, that's unacceptable, that shouldn't happen, and there are, you know, there are precious few. Do you think there were any criticisms of the county election process that were somewhat justified, things that the county could have done better. Yes, yes, yes, of course. To say otherwise is foolish. And that is certainly true of the 2020 election is certainly true of the 2022 election. I dare say it will be true of the 2024 election. And I think that we should also be revisiting the state election law. So give me a couple lessons, either from 2020 or 2022 midterms. Following the 2020 election, there was a theory that Sharpies used by voters that bled through

to the backside would affect the tabulation. And then it turned into something that was much bigger than that. Sharpiegate. Yes, Sharpiegate. And we know that the columns are offset. So even if it does bleed through, it has no impact on the races on the backside. Should that have been communicated better? Probably. I think speeding up results is an important thing that we should be working on. And it's why I've also advocated at the state legislature for saying that early ballots have to be dropped off early just so we can have a higher percentage of results available on election day. So those are the types of things that I think should be revisited

on a regular basis to try and improve. So I'm sorry for bringing this up, but you lost your primary. I did. In July. I mean, that's a fact. It happens in elections. So you're going to be leaving office after this election. First of all, are you a little bit relieved that you don't to be leaving office after this election. First of all,

are you a little bit relieved that you don't have to do another term? Oh my God, yes. Why did you even run again then? One, because it's an important conversation we're having right now as a country, as a state, as a party. Two, because I'm a stubborn ass and it's like, you know, come pry it out from me. I'm not giving up. Like, you know, like I didn't do anything wrong. Like you don't get to take this from me. And like, who the hell are you to tell me about what a true Republican is? Like I've read more books on conservatism in one month than you have in your lifetime. Do you have any advice for your successor? No, but my gift that I hope to leave for my successor is that he doesn't have to do this for the next four years. Like I had to do it. What do you mean? I just hope that we are in a place where we accept the results

of the 2024 election because it's been fairly administered, it's been lawfully administered, and it's been capably communicated such that my successor doesn't have to spend his entire existence talking about an election that predated his time in office, as I have had to do. Stephen Richer, Maricopa County Recorder. Thank you so much for spending all of this time with us. Thank you very much. This episode was produced by Noah Caldwell and Janaki Mehta. It was edited by Ashley Brown and William Troop.

Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Elsa Chang. The Code Switch team spent Election Day talking to folks about how the outcome might impact them. It's a time capsule of people's hopes and fears before they knew the results. One way or another, there's a change coming. I wanted to vote for Trump, but I voted for her. Gays for Trump.

I cried this morning. I've been crying on and off. I'm terrified. Listen to Code Switch, the podcast about race and identity from NPR. Ever look up at the stars and wonder, what's out there? On Shortwave, we ask big questions about our universe. From baby galaxies to the search for alien life, we explore the celestial science behind these questions.

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