Consider This from NPR - What Happens To The Investigations Involving Now-Candidate Trump?

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Former President Trump is launching his 2024 campaign with a cloud of legal issues hanging over his head. They include the federal investigation into the January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, another into the top secret documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago and a criminal tax fraud trial in New York.University of Michigan Law Professor Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. Attorney, explains how his status as a candidate might weigh on those investigations.And NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik explains another development since Trump's last campaign: the conservative media properties run by Rupert Murdoch appear to have cooled on the former president.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. The last time Donald Trump ran for president, the election culminated in an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. That was after Trump and his allies exhausted every legal avenue to overturn the vote and remain in power, plus some other avenues, including urging his vice president to just throw out the results. All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people.

So now that he's announced another run for president... In order to make America great and glorious again, I am tonight announcing my candidacy for president of the United States. It's prompting some difficult decisions. First among fellow Republicans, who have to decide whether to stick with the former president. I could not support him. I just couldn't. That's the lieutenant governor of Virginia, Winsome Earl Sears,

speaking with Neil Cavuto on Fox Business before Trump's announcement. She'd been a strong Trump supporter, but last week joined a growing chorus of Republicans criticizing him. To explain her change of heart, she didn't point to Trump's attempted election subversion in 2020. Instead, she noted Trump's negative impact on Republicans in the midterms. You know, the voters have spoken and they have said that they want a different leader. And a true leader understands when they have become a liability. And it's not just Republican politicians reckoning with the Trump candidacy. The conservative media empire run by Rupert Murdoch, which played a vital role supporting

Trump, it's showing signs of slowly backing away. Here's Fox News host Jesse Waters the day after the midterms contemplating a Biden-Trump rematch in 2024. Does Trump win? I hope so. I love the guy. And a week ago, I would have said slam dunk. But after how last night shook out, I don't know now. Democrats will walk over hot coals to vote against Trump. And then there are state and federal prosecutors who may now have to decide whether to bring charges against candidate Trump in a slew of investigations involving the former president. That includes the Department of Justice's investigation into the January 6th insurrection. Attorney General Merrick Garland has made it clear in the past that he's not ruling out charges against anyone.

We are proceeding with full urgency, with respect, as I've said many times before, to hold all perpetrators who are criminally responsible for January 6th accountable, regardless of their level, their position, and regardless of whether they were present at the events of January 6th. Consider this. Through two presidential runs, scandals, and an insurrection, Donald Trump's grip on the Republican Party and conservative media has been unshakable. Could a dismal midterm performance change that? From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com. T's and C's apply.

It's Consider This from NPR. There's a long list of Trump's potential legal troubles. An investigation in Georgia is looking into his effort to overturn President Biden's victory in that state. There's a criminal tax fraud trial involving his business in New York. Federal investigations are looking into his handling of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago and into the January 6th attack on the Capitol. And that's not even a complete list. So what do these legal entanglements mean for Trump's campaign? And how could his 2024 candidacy impact the work of investigators? I spoke with Barbara McQuaid about that. She's a professor at the University of Michigan Law School and a former U.S. attorney. Is there any legal prohibition against There is nothing that says you can't investigate someone running for president. Hillary Clinton, for example, was investigated while she was a candidate for president.

So legally, no bar. Now, politically, I think there may be some strategic advantage to be gained by announcing before any charges are filed. Let's talk about the politics of this because we know of two federal investigations involving the president into Mar-a-Lago and the insurrection. And Attorney General Merrick Garland has said prior to Trump's announcement that prosecutors will follow the evidence wherever it leads. Here he was speaking to reporters in July. No person is above the law in this country. Nothing stops us. I don't know how to say that again. No person is above the law in this country. I can't say it any more clearly than that. But since President Biden oversees the Justice Department to appoint a special counsel when there is a conflict of interest by the Justice Department or some other factor that

might cause the public to question the independence of the Justice Department. There's not a requirement that a special counsel be appointed, but it is a discretionary call, and there are certain things that an attorney general needs to think about. And so when you have someone, if you're investigating your boss, for example, when the Justice Department was investigating Donald Trump himself, the sitting president, that's certainly a conflict of interest because he can fire you or he can stop the investigation if he wants to. And so that's the kind of place where a special counsel, I think, has some merit. But in a case like this, we're getting really quite remote. One,

Joe Biden is not a declared candidate yet, though I suppose most of us can assume he will be. Donald Trump is a candidate for the Republican primary. It's not clear whether he will even oppose Joe Biden in that election. And we're two years away from that with an investigation that's been ongoing for almost two years already. So I'd be surprised if ultimately a special counsel is appointed here. All right. So that's at the Justice Department. But then there are these state investigations in New York and Georgia. Do you think there are any implications for those cases? that Fannie Willis will proceed with her grand jury investigation exactly as she has stated that she would all along. I think Letitia James in New York is well on her way. She's already filed the complaint there back in January, so I think that case will proceed.

But again, politically, I think it gives Donald Trump the talking point that he loves so much that he's the victim, that this is a witch hunt. I announced my campaign for presidency, and all of a sudden I'm charged in Georgia or I'm charged in the federal system. So I think politically it is a way to frame himself as somebody who has been victimized, attacked for partisan political reasons. I suppose that could carry some weight with a jury, but I don't think it is going to with judges or attorneys general. And so it sounds like you give some weight with a jury, but I don't think it is going to with judges or attorneys general.

And so it sounds like you give some weight to the argument that Trump may have announced his candidacy earlier than normal in order to maybe gain some, if not legal protection, then at least talking points on these investigations. Yeah, you never know exactly what motivates someone to do something, particularly Donald Trump, but it certainly has that advantage. You know, among other things, he can go out and raise money. He seems to relish campaigning even more than governing. And so he gets to go out and have rallies and people can come and they can rally toward his cause. But it does have that additional benefit, Ari, that he can use this talking point to say, they're out to get me. It's a hoax. It's a partisan witch hunt. Former U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuaid. The investigations involving the former president are one big difference between 2024 and 2020.

Here's something else that's different now. The headline of the New York Post's front page the day after Trump's campaign kickoff simply read, Florida man makes announcement, page 26. The Wall Street Journal's editorial board called him the Republican Party's biggest loser. Fox News is cooling on Trump. Rupert Murdoch's media properties had been among Trump's biggest boosters, and now NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik is looking into whether they are bailing on him. David, tell us more about how Murdoch outlets are covering this announcement. Well, so much is pegged, as you suggest, to the unrealized red wave of last Tuesday's elections.

It simply didn't materialize. And a lot of folks are putting that at Trump's doorstep, given how many of the major candidates he endorsed flailed at the polls. You've seen the New York Post really deriding him and at the same time denying him oxygen. That page 26 story was short. It was brief. It sort of made fun of the lack of knowledge about his cholesterol levels, you know, did not take him seriously as a consequential political figure. The Wall Street Journal, as you know, you know, essentially said it's time for him to get out of the business of this so Republicans can regroup and prove themselves. And let me give you a flavor of the ambivalence on Fox News, you know, and Fox Business, really the homes of his strongest support. This clip I want to play from you is from Fox Business Network's Stuart Varney, a longtime

Trump champion. He's asking a question here of a Fox News contributor whose name is Laura Trump, that is the wife of Eric Trump. Here's what Varney asked. You were there, so I'm sure you're very supportive of your father-in-law. But those of us on the outside looking at it, it didn't seem as he got the old magic. Even stars like Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson have suggested Trump would be a mixed bag for the Republican Party. They've been pretty full-throated defenders and supporters until now. How is this different from the way Murdoch-owned media outlets responded to other tough times for Trump, from the impeachments to the insurrection? Well, look, we have seen this before. It's worth noting the Murdochs swung away during the hearings

of the January 6th committee earlier this year. But then they snapped back into line when Trump's supporters were outraged by the FBI's search of Mar-a-Lago for classified documents held by Trump. Why? Well, those Trump supporters make up Fox's core audience. That's how Fox dominated in the era of streaming and in the emergence of these new right wing outfits like Newsmax and OANN. Even so, this represents a significant shift that the Murdoch support, particularly through Trump, has been real. Trump noticed he's been trashing the Murdoch support, particularly through Trump, has been real. Trump noticed he's been trashing the Murdochs of late. And I think that there's sign of a potential real rift. So is the conclusion here that backing losing candidates is in Murdoch world

a greater offense than trying to overturn democracy? I think the Murdochs got a lot of what they wanted out of Trump. Those very conservative justices appointed the Supreme Court, huge tax cuts for the wealthy. And it's a moment of weakness for Trump. But Loughlin and Rupert Murdoch have signaled they want to move on. Somebody who I spoke to who has talked to Loughlin says that right now, you know, Fox News can cover the news as it's happened, both in opinion and on the news side, and they won't be tying themselves into pretzels to try to make things look good for Trump. You know, I think it's a moment of weakness, and they want to see they can take advantage of it to find a new face for the Republican Party.

How are we going to know whether this time the split is real and not just temporary? I'm something of a skeptic on this. It's like Lucy with the football again and again with Charlie Brown. I will say when the campaign starts to pick up, if they give running room and license to major Republican figures, particularly those on Capitol Hill, to criticize Trump without being beaten down and suffering a real backlash from Fox stars, that'll tell you something. But if Trump's followers rebel, I think the Murdochs will probably sprint to the head of the Trump parade and make it look like they were leading all along.

NPR media correspondent, David Fulkenflay. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.