Consider This from NPR - What Navalny's Death Means For The Russian Opposition

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

Much of the world has spent the weekend mourning Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. And asking why he chose to return to Russia, after he'd been poisoned, and when it was clear he was in danger. Filmmaker Daniel Roher, who interviewed Navalny for the Oscar-winning documentary "Navalny," says the Russian opposition leader was an incredibly optimistic and certain about himself and his mission. And that Navalny believed he could usher in a brighter future for Russia.So what happens to that future now? Aleksei Miniailo an opposition activist and researcher in Moscow weighs in on how the Russian opposition sustains its movement after the death of its most prominent figure.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The Wall of Grief, or Wall of Sorrow as it's also known, can be found at a busy intersection on the Garden Ring Road in Moscow. It's a memorial to the estimated 750,000 victims of political persecution under Joseph Stalin. The bronze memorial depicts faceless human figures, and it was dedicated by none other than Russian President Vladimir Putin in 2017. This past weekend, the Wall of Grief was the site of one of many makeshift memorials to Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who died at a remote penal colony late last week. And while Putin may have urged Russians not to forget the tragedy of oppression when he dedicated the Wall of Grief, hundreds of people have been detained across Russia since Navalny's death was announced. Navalny's death follows a long-established pattern in Putin's Russia.

Russian prison officials say Navalny died of, quote, sudden death syndrome. A petition demanding the release of his body has drawn thousands of signatures. So far, Navalny's aides and his mother have been blocked from seeing it. What is clear is that Navalny seems to have suffered the same fate as many of the Russian president's other rivals. Guardian correspondent Luke Harding covered Russia for years. He's also the author of A Very Expensive Poison, which details the poisoning and death of Putin critic Alexander Litvinenko. I think you can say with confidence pretty much all of Vladimir Putin's opponents, domestic political opponents, are either in exile or they're dead.

And that's the way that Putin likes it. I mean, you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see who might be responsible. Consider this. The charismatic Navalny was the face of resistance to Vladimir Putin. Will his death have a chilling effect on those who oppose the Russian president's rule? From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It is Monday, February 19th. It's Consider This from NPR. Much of the world has spent the weekend mourning Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny and asking why he chose to return to Russia after he'd been poisoned and when it was clear he was in danger.

Filmmaker Daniel Rohr interviewed him for the Oscar-winning documentary Navalny. I asked Rohr, did Navalny think he could take on Putin and win? Navalny was an incredibly optimistic, bright guy. And I was surprised at just how sure he was in himself and in his mission. I think he felt that the beautiful Russia of the future wasn't as far away as people thought. And he framed himself as one of the leaders who would usher in this beautiful Russia of the future. So I think he did not have a death wish. He did not want to perish for the cause. So where does Navalny's death leave the future of dissent in Russia? That's a question I put to Alexei Minyalov, an opposition activist

in Moscow. He wrote a piece for Foreign Affairs headlined, Don't Give Up on a Better Russia. When we reached him in Moscow, I asked, still, even after events of these last few days? Yes, of course. As much as leaders are important, democracy depends on regular people, not just on super big figures, on symbolic figures, and on leaders of political parties or opposition. If we would say that, oh, Navalny died, so now there will be no democracy in Russia, that means that all our job was futile and all that Alexei did was futile, but it is not so. I will note, you have spent time in prison. You've been arrested. You've been held for your opposition work. Obviously, that has not deterred you. You're still speaking out. How hard an argument is that to make today to other people in Russia to hold strong, keep fighting?

Well, it's not easy, but that's when the personal example works. And that's essentially, I think that's one of the main things Navalny did. He set a personal example that a person of oppositional convictions can put his freedom on the line, put his life on the line to stand up for a better Russia.

I'm not saying that everyone should do this, but definitely such examples are very important because they empower us to do more for democratization of Russia. So let me put you a couple of the challenges. This past weekend, saw hundreds of people in Russia arrested, detained for protesting or simply for coming out to mourn Navalny. This has prompted fears of perhaps an even more severe crackdown before presidential elections there in Russia next month. Does it cause you in any way to rethink your belief that a better Russia is possible? This is all expected. And as much as it is dramatic or even tragic, as in case with Alexei's assassination, it is not unexpected, not something that turns the table. So, of course, it is hard. But we knew that

such things would come to be, that Putin will feel more of his opponents, that more oppressions will follow for some time before the regime weakens. It all happens. It all might happen further. And maybe in a year, when you reach out to talk with me about something else, you won't be able to, because I will be in prison

or something else might happen. But that doesn't change the big situation. The regime is running out of fuel. But explain that. Those of us watching from the outside, it's very hard to see that there's any real challenge to his power, that it's not something approaching absolute. For 20 years, he was stashing the surplus income

from selling the gas and the oil. It's called Fund of National Wealth. For two years, he was spending around $50-60 billion from this fund. And if this continues, he will run out of these extra funds. And the harsh truth is that most of Putin's reign, ordinary people were getting better and better lives because of this oil excess money. But for some time, the economy is stagnating. When he runs out of money, he will have much harder time solving these problems, which will lead to more and more people being unhappy with the regime. And that will impose a more severe threat to his power than activists laying flowers to commemorate Navalny. Alexei Navalny's wife, Yulia, released a video today.

This is her pledging to carry on his work. She's saying, I will continue the work of Alexei Navalny, I will continue to fight for our country, and I encourage you to stand by my side. What role do you see for her? I don't know. Time will show. knows a lot of examples when wives of key opponents of the autocrats, that their wives actually became prominent politicians themselves. So Yulia can very well do that as well. It's totally possible. I want to ask about you. You are speaking to me from Moscow. You're speaking very critically of Vladimir Putin and his role. How dangerous is that? I don't know.

We'll see. Every time I'm saying something, I'm thinking, what will be the result? Will it change anything for the better? And then somehow try to weigh the risks as well, how risky is saying this or that. So I have to do this. Do you, especially now, in the wake of the death of Navalny, do you ever wake up afraid? Well, I no longer feel it on a constant basis, but I'm afraid of a lot of things that might happen to me, to my family. Two things help me. one is keeping in mind what all of this is for Alexei Navalny is a great example because he believed that Russia can be democratic can be free can be friendly to its neighbors that's one thing I always remember what I'm risking for and second you know, I had two grandfathers, one Russian, one Ukrainian.

They both fought Hitler. And I believe that was immensely more dangerous than what I'm doing now. Still, they went on with it and they did it. They won. So I must go on also with this and I must do my best like they did. That's Alexei Minoylo. He's a Russian opposition activist speaking to us today from Moscow.

Thank you. Thank you. This episode was produced by Mallory Yu and Mark Rivers. It was edited by Sarah Handel and Courtney Dorney. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.