Consider This from NPR - What's Next For Breonna Taylor's Family, And The Movement That Followed Her Death

Episode Date: September 25, 2020

The Kentucky attorney general said this week that police were "justified" in the shooting that killed Breonna Taylor during a botched narcotics raid, and no charges were brought against any officers in her death. The only charges brought were against one officer whose shots went into another apartment. That announcement touched off more protests in Louisville and around the country.Jamiles Lartey of The Marshall Project explains the legal rationale behind the decision. Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear explains why he supports the release of grand jury testimony in the case. And Ibram X. Kendi of Boston University's Center for Antiracist Research discusses where the movement for racial justice goes from here. In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment that will help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

The crowd of protesters in Louisville Thursday was just as big as the night before. Breonna Taylor! Breonna Taylor! Breonna Taylor! There were protests in cities across the country last night, and more are likely this weekend, after what happened in Kentucky on Wednesday. That's when the state attorney general announced there would be no charges against any officers for the shooting death of Breonna Taylor during a botched narcotics raid. Taylor was 26 years old. The only charges brought were against one officer whose shots went into another apartment.

I was reassured Wednesday of why I have no faith in the legal system, in the police, in the law that are not made to protect us black and brown people. But when I speak on it, I'm considered an angry black woman. But know this, I am an angry black woman. Taylor's aunt, Bianca Austin, read a statement today in Louisville on behalf of her sister, Taylor's mother, Tamika Palmer. Angry because our children are dying at the hands of police officers. And I'm angry because this nation is learning that our Black women are dying at the hands of police officers, and this is not okay. Consider this.

A national movement that sought justice for Breonna Taylor was embraced by celebrities, NBA stars, and some powerful politicians. They did not get what they were looking for. So what now? From NPR, I'm Adi Cornish. It's Friday, September 25th. This message comes from NPR sponsor Twilio, a customer engagement platform trusted by millions of developers, enabling you to reinvent how you connect with your customers. Whatever your use case, Twilio has your back.

It's time to build. Visit Twilio.com. Time, presenting The Comey Rule, a two-night event series looking into the aftermath of the relationship between James Comey and Donald Trump and the 2016 election. Tune in on September 27th and 28th, only on Showtime. Radio Ambulante is NPR's only Spanish-language podcast. Listen for stories you won't hear anywhere else told by the voices that make Latin America come alive. Each week, we bring you another remarkable story that will surprise and move you. Radio Ambulante, new episodes every Tuesday. Listen and subscribe. It's Consider This from NPR. Justified was the word used by Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron,

a Republican, to describe the shooting that killed Breonna Taylor. According to Kentucky law, the use of force by Mattingly and Cosgrove was justified to protect themselves. This justification bars us from pursuing criminal charges in Ms. Breonna Taylor's death. The attorney general's argument goes back to what happened the night of March 13th. Police were executing a search warrant. Breonna Taylor was asleep in her bedroom. Her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, heard a commotion at the front door as police burst in. Walker, thinking they were intruders, fired his gun once and struck an

officer in the thigh. Police then fired back. Taylor was shot multiple times and died in her hallway. No drugs were found in the house, and attempted murder charges against Walker were later dropped. So police officers do have special laws that dictate their use of force when trying to arrest a suspect. Jamiles Larte covers legal issues and criminal justice for the Marshall Project. But the issue is that police have rights and I think arguably responsibilities in terms of, you know, a superior officer ordering you to do something, like burst into someone's home at 1 a.m. with a battering ram, where if you or I were to do that

and someone shot us, we would be considered the aggressor under Kentucky state law and we'd have no right to a self-defense claim. In other words, the law says police have the right to defend themselves. So does any person in Kentucky whose home is being broken into. And so when it gets confusing and frustrating, as I so understand that it is, what I like to point people towards is the idea of officer-created danger. And that's the idea that police officers have a tremendous amount of leeway in their tactical approach to situations. And there are a lot of tactical approaches that are better than others. Larte says, look at the case of Tamir Rice in Cleveland.

He was just 12 years old when he was shot and killed by police. Someone called 911 and reported he was in a park with what looked like a gun. It was a toy. Police responded. They pull up within a couple of feet of him and they get out of the car and thus they're now in danger because someone who might have a gun is two feet away from them. So this is a similar example of serving a warrant at one o'clock in the morning when you could have known that there was a legal firearm holder in the house is pretty much the most dangerous way to serve that warrant. So there could be more discussion on how police are approaching these situations.

Now, how police approach these situations could be changed by legal reforms. And for now, the Supreme Court has ruled that officers have a right to claim self-defense even if their behavior was objectively unsafe or likely to provoke a violent response. Release the transcript. Release the transcript. Release the transcript. At their press conference in Louisville today, Breonna Taylor's family demanded the release of transcripts of the grand jury proceedings, proceedings that led to the decision not to charge any officers in Taylor's death. It's something the governor of Kentucky, Democrat Andy Beshear, supports. We don't know what the evidence shows in this case, and I think it's time that the public is provided with that evidence. I trust Kentuckians and

Americans with the truth. The question is, what would seeing more evidence change now? I asked the governor, a former attorney general himself, just that when we spoke today. Now, obviously, the calls being made in Louisville and around the country are about more than just this individual case. They're about systematic racism. They're about wanting to be heard and wanting to see real progress, not a little progress, but real progress. But as governor, you do have some powers. What legal recourse could you take if you were interested in doing so? What legislative recourse could you take if interested in doing so? Well, as governor, you're right.

I'm limited on what I can do in this specific matter in the actual justice system itself. But what I can do is be committed to addressing inequalities that exist in just about every part of our society. No, but hold on one second. There are rules and regulations around police use of force. Could you not have an influence there if you believe that was necessary? We are currently talking to both members of our Black Legislative Caucus, to police and to others about reforms, about changes, about improvements. I think any time that a tragedy occurs, if we do not change the way we do things in the future, shame on us. Is there anything in particular you feel supportive of? Well, we've certainly instituted changes in our officer training that impact most of the state. I believe that we have to look at warrants and no-knock warrants about when they can be issued and by whom they should be carried out,

the specific training that would be needed. I think that we need to look at this situation and say that at the end of the day, someone's life was lost. Somebody who was a daughter, somebody who was a friend, and we've got to do everything we can in the future to make sure something like that never happens again. There's plenty of data that indicates that police are not prosecuted very often in these kinds of cases, and when they are, they're rarely found culpable or guilty. So whether or not you have more information, it may not lead to, for activists, the justice that they believe that they're due. Well, certainly every instance should be judged on its own facts about what type of... But it is, right? I guess that's why I'm saying as a prosecutor, you know this. These are not cases that often end in guilty verdicts of any kind for police.

So what is the problem that you believe needs to be solved here? I think we have a more fundamental problem in our society that has existed for over 400 years that we have to start addressing, that it impacts everything from health care and health outcomes with Black Kentuckians dying at twice the rate from COVID that they make up of the population, the impact of everything from wealth to home ownership to opportunities in life to even life expectancy outside of COVID. It's time that we listen, we hear, and that we take real action. Andy Beshear, the Democratic governor of Kentucky. Also in Louisville today, Benjamin Crump, an attorney representing Breonna Taylor's family,

spent three minutes listing all the family members. The brothers and sisters from George Floyd. Of black men and women killed by police. Sabrina Fulton's, Trayvon Martin's mother. Who'd reached out to support Breonna Taylor's family. Michael Brown's mother. Eric Gardner's mother from Staten Island, New York. Tamir Rice's mother. Philando Castile's mother, Sandra Bland's mother,

Stephon Clark's name, enough is enough, America. Enough is enough, America. Enough is enough, America. Enough is enough, America. With each one of these stories, the movement to fight police violence against Black people grew and grew. Where does that movement go from here? Ibram X. Kendi had that conversation with NPR this week. He's an author and historian and

founding director of Boston University's Center for Anti-Racist Research. He spoke to my colleague, Tanya Mosley. You are an anti-racist scholar. Do you see a future where we can come together in what we all wish for, and that's a system of anti-racist policing? I mean, that's the goal. That's the hope. But I think in order to reimagine public safety, we're going to have to reimagine violence in danger. And in that reimagining of violence in danger, we cannot be connecting violence and danger and criminality to the color of one's skin. That is indeed a racist idea to connect danger and violence and criminality to Black people and then state

that it makes sense. Officers are justified in fearing for their lives when they shoot and kill unarmed Black people or when they barge into someone's home late at night and those people thinking that they're a robber, they seek to defend themselves. Because of racist ideas, it is imagined that Black people do not have the right to defend themselves, particularly in the face of white police officers. And that's wrong. You wrote last night, to be Black in America is to walk in the valley of the shadow of pain and death. The fact that Black people still manage to carry on and create and find joy and love in the valley is nothing short of a

miracle. And right now, our love of Breonna Taylor is filling us with rage. Dr. Kendi, where does that rage go from here? It goes from here, first and foremost, of course, to mourn yet again. We not only have mourned her death, now we're mourning the fact that her killers are not going to be brought to justice. But then, you know, that mourning transforms into seeking to transform our society, into seeking to transform American policing, in seeking to transform our criminal justice system, into seeking to disconnect Blackness from criminality, into seeking to protect Black women, to protect every single American from police violence. That's where we need to be

focused on, in changing power and policy to ensure that happens. Ibram X. Kendi, speaking to my colleague Tanya Mosley on Here and Now. It's from NPR and WBUR in Boston. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Adi Cornish.