Consider This from NPR - When Fashion Is About More Than Trendy Clothes

Episode Date: September 10, 2022

Even if you have never walked the red carpet at the Met Gala, or sat in the front row of a Fashion Week runway, the notion of fashion is hard to escape. For some of us, what we wear – whether it's Gucci or the GAP–is about more than just the clothes on our bodies. Fashion is often about who we are - our ideas, identity, and culture. For those who cover and create fashion, it can be a way to challenge and change the culture in ways that resonate beyond the red carpet and the runway. Host Michel Martin speaks with designer Eileen Fisher, one of the first in the industry to introduce sustainable clothing production. She is stepping down as CEO of her self named company after 34 years. Kenya Hunt is stepping into the editor-in-chief role at Elle UK. She is the first Black woman to hold the position. Hunt talks about why she chose Lizzo for the magazine's September cover. In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community. Email us at [e-mail] episode was produced by Robert Baldwin III. It was edited by Jeanette Woods. Our executive producer is Natalie Winston.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Who are you wearing tonight? Louis Vuitton. I already knew, but I asked anyway. I know, you've got it. And me too. I know. And this is gorgeous, though. This is gorgeous.

So who are we wearing tonight? I'm wearing Berluti. I went matte black everything. Yeah. Kept it simple. It is the inevitable question for anyone walking or watching the celebrity red carpet. Who are you wearing? And even if you think you don't care, fashion is hard to escape.

Who are we wearing? We're wearing Ralph Lauren. Oh my God. Yes. It's beautiful. Thank you so much. Who you wear, or for the rest of us mortals, what we wear, whether it's Gucci or The Gap, can be about more than just the clothes on our bodies. Fashion is often about who we are. It's about ideas, identity, culture. For some of those who cover and create fashion, it can be a way to challenge and change the culture in ways that resonate far beyond the red carpet and the runway. I think we've witnessed fashion sort of evolve to a place that's more purposeful. Kenya Hunt is the new editor-in-chief of the UK edition of Elle, which includes the magazine and other media offerings.

She's the first Black woman in that role. Fashion is an industry that has a very long way to go, admittedly, when it comes to conversations around sustainability and inclusion and a whole host of things. But that said, I do think we're in a space, we're in a moment in time and in history that requires us to be much more honest

and expansive in the way that we look at fashion and beauty and to look at it against the backdrop of value systems and identity. I don't think we can necessarily, I don't think we can solely look at clothing in a bubble. Consider this, fashion is always changing, but more and more that change is about much more than the length of a hemline or the newest color trend. What happens when key players in the fashion world challenge the status quo, pushing to redefine everything from stereotypes about beauty to fusty ideas about what women should want to wear? That's coming up. From NPR, I'm Michelle Martin. It is Saturday, September 10th. When this edition of Elle, the British edition of Elle, launched in 1985, its founding editor, Sally Brampton, talked about how she felt like that generation of women

were kind of fumbling their way towards the future. And I think that's very much kind of how we are now, where we're just trying to reimagine what our future looks like because things are ever changing. I spoke with Kenya Hunt earlier this month. She's the first Black editor-in-chief of LUK. And when we spoke, she shared her vision for how fashion can reflect and influence the world at large, and how she used her inaugural issue to make a statement on how the culture of fashion is evolving. Elle UK's September issue featured Lizzo on the cover. That's the pop superstar known for chart-topping hits and for breaking ground for larger-sized women in fashion and culture.

Hunt shared the inspiration behind the September magazine. I'll never forget watching a show that used to air cult style with Elsa Clench. And she was interviewing the editor of Elle at the time about her choice to put a black model on the cover. And this was Naomi Campbell. And she, you know, questioned her and asked her, you know, about her feelings about making this bold and courageous decision to put this woman of color on the cover. And, you know, her reply was quite, you know, simple. She just thought she was, she didn't think. And her reply was quite simple. She just thought she didn't think it was this courageous move at all. She just thought she was the woman who reflected the moment. And she just felt she was the best woman for the cover. And so I think that

resonated with me and it never left me. So even now, just having this role as editor-in-chief, I often think about that. And having Liz on the cover for September, it was, you know, it was such, it was thrilling for so many reasons, but also it was quite tickled because the fact that she was a Black woman was not the headline because we've evolved. While this issue is Hunt's first to carry out her vision as editor-in-chief, she says she is only just beginning to tackle some of the things that she thinks are important. And she says there's more work to be done. We all know that the history of women's magazines has been very insular and exclusive and the opposite of inclusive. You know, women who, there's that sense of there being historically a very, very narrow standard of beauty. And I've just been, you know, I'm excited to open that up and to really sort of look at the expansiveness of what womanhood looks like.

And I thought Lizzo was a really great starting point for that. Coming up, a fashion pioneer who created a style revolution and revolutionary ways of doing business. I didn't understand fashion shows or anything like that, or how people in fashion started. I just had this idea that I'd been carrying, the idea that I'd worn a uniform as a kid, and the simplicity of that.

So I wanted something, I wanted the ease of a uniform. That's Eileen Fisher, and if you know fashion, you know her name and the simplicity of that. So I wanted something, I wanted the ease of a uniform. That's Eileen Fisher. And if you know fashion, you know her name and the company that has carried her name since 1984. Fisher upended not only the style rules then in vogue when she got started, big shoulders, big earrings, big hair, for a pared down simplicity she adheres to to this day, she also upended the business models, which seems stickier.

She was an early adopter of sustainability as a guiding principle, adopting minimal waste technologies, urging customers to send their clothes back so they could be reused and remodeled. And she sold a portion of her business to her employees years ago so they could share in the prosperity and challenges of the business. Now she says she's ready for a new chapter and is stepping down as CEO of Eileen Fisher, although she says she will remain involved with design. I asked her how she came to decide to do things differently. Turns out she didn't always want to be a designer. You probably heard I wanted to be a math major.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I almost flunked out of school my first semester, though, because I couldn't quite manage calculus. But I do think of myself as a problem solver. I love thinking about fixing problems. And I have a philosophy ever since the beginning of like, when there's a problem, you know, dive into it. The secret to our next success is in the middle of that problem. You know, I think maybe people forget this now, but, you know, you launched your brand in 1984. I mean, if people remember 80s fashion, right? 80s was all about big, like big earrings, big hair, loud colors, puffy sleeves, big shoulders. So you were very much going against the grain with your idea of pieces that could be worn over and over, pieces that all worked together. You know what I mean? And I'm just sort of wondering, did you ever feel like, I don't know. I'm just kind of wondering when you first presented these pieces to the public and especially to investors, you know, what did they say?

Well, I didn't really present the things to investors you know what did they say well i didn't really present the things to investors so uh oh except no i actually i didn't but the first time i presented was at the boutique show and um basically you know a few people at first were very intrigued and liked it and you know bought some things that you know and i I guess I wasn't, I knew that I was doing something different. But I didn't. I was just kind of in my own world. I think, actually, I don't know that I was comparing myself or that kind of thing. I was just doing what I wanted. I'm just so intrigued by how you've been able to kind of do what you wanted all this time, when so many people

in your industry have gone in a completely different direction. For example, continuing to stay privately held. I mean, you own the majority of the company, but 40% of it is owned by your employees. Many big fashion houses have long since gone public. Some of them have had some fairly unhappy experiences with doing that. You, in sustainability, for example, I mean, you were among the very first to offer an opportunity for people to return clothing, turn it into something else. You had your green Eileen stores where people could bring their clothing back, buy gently used pieces, and you've had a sustainability program really for pretty much longer than anybody I can think of other than thrift stores. So I'm just curious, is it that what has allowed you to continue to march to the beat of your own drum, I guess I would say?

Yeah, I don't know if it's the only drum I know. I don't know. Yeah, I think that there was good response to what I know. I don't know. Yeah, I think that there was good response to what I did. And so I felt like I was sort of following this vision or these pictures that I would see or these ideas or, you know, certain ideas would come up and they would resonate with me or others. And, you know, so that's just what I followed and what we followed. And it seemed to work, I think, because it worked. And people wanted more of it.

That's what sort of drove me forward. I mean, other fashion houses and other people in fashion have certainly followed you into the idea of recycling clothing or offering take-back programs. But they haven't followed you in some other areas, like, for example, giving your employees a stake in the business. And I'm just wondering why that is. Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I don't know, that should be the next thing they do. Well, maybe if they don't own it, they don't have that opportunity to do that. You know, if they've sold, had to sell. Like, I think I was lucky in that I was profitable all the way through. And so I was in a position to not have to, I hate to say sell out, or that I grew at a comfortable enough pace.

I mean, it was fast at certain times, but it wasn't but I didn't need to overnight open 20, 30, 40 stores. I did it very organically. So I think that's how it worked. But I like your question because I think it's an important one about why are they not following in the ESOP idea or even profit sharing? I actually think that it should be required. Honestly, I do. I think that businesses have to share profits or share ownership with employees. but also using solar panels at your distribution center in the 1990s, working to offset your carbon emissions in the mid-2000s. I mean, committing to fair labor practices in the 2010s. I mean, these are things that are commonly discussed now, even if they're not acted upon. But you were doing it before most people were even talking about it. And I just wondered, did you ever get scared?

Did you ever think, I don't know, what am I doing? No, no, no, no. All of that work gives meaning and purpose to everything we're doing. I think it makes people care and feel what they're doing here is meaningful. You know, sometimes you can think clothes are just clothes and it's superficial and la, la, la, you know, and it's not meaningful. You know, you can, sometimes you can think clothes are just clothes and it's superficial and blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's not meaningful. But actually I think the, the way we make the clothes, the, what we care about and, you know, everything from the raw, the farm level, the raw materials, the dye houses, everything we try hard to make it always to make it better. And I think this idea of giving meaning to the work, I think that the employees really feel that.

They partly own it, but they own their share of the business, but they also own the meaning of the work. And I think that idea of really working to change the system internally is something that just intrigues me and I think is important and different about what we've done. What are some of the things that concern you most about the fashion industry right now about the way it it operates oh well you know I think the first thing I would say is we and I include myself make too much of the wrong stuff if we're making products that don't endure you know then or that you know that don't aren't quality made and people we have to make things they love, so they want to keep it for three years or 20 years, you know. Yeah, so I think the first thing is exactly that, too much, too much of the wrong stuff. The other thing is, I think there's so

much creativity in the fashion industry. We're so innovative and, you know, if we can direct that, you know, that innovation towards sustainability, I think that'll, that'll serve us well. And, you know, if we can direct that, you know, that innovation towards sustainability, I think that'll, that'll serve us well. And I hope that we can do more of that. That was Eileen Fisher. She is stepping down as CEO of the company that she founded in 1984. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Michelle Martin.