Consider This from NPR - When it comes to harassment, are federal judges above the law?

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

People who work for the federal court system don't have the same kinds of job protections that most other Americans do.A nearly year-long NPR investigation has found problems with the way the courts police sexual harassment and bullying...and a pervasive culture of fear about blowing the whistle. A warning to our listeners, this piece contains a description of sexual assault.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

In 2020, as the coronavirus pandemic began to shut things down, a recent law school graduate started a new job all the way across the country in Alaska. She accepted a coveted post as law clerk for federal judge. It's kind of like a unicorn. It's a position that follows you for the rest of your life. It's on the top of your resume. It's, you know, people pay attention to it, especially a federal court clerkship. Lyle The clerk hoped this job would jumpstart her career. She didn't know anyone else there, only the judge. Emma The judge was the HR department. The judge was my boss. The judge was a colleague. The judge was everything. He had all the power.

Lyle He started testing her boundaries early on. Emma It started immediately. The inappropriate conversations, there was a lot of talk, you know, about the judge's personal relationships, about sexual relationships. She says she thought it was part of her job to listen to the judge and help him with anything. He was going through a divorce, and he began to text her constantly, to the point where her phone felt like an electric leash. You know, I never had respite from being just a few text messages away from him. It was constant.

It was during work. It was after work. It was all the time. That pressure built. In the summer of 2022, things got worse. That's when he told me he'd been communicating with this prosecutor that was appearing before him, and she had been sending nude photos, and that was the breaking point for me, where I decided I needed to leave.

She stayed in Alaska, but she got a new job as a federal prosecutor. And this, she hoped, would put an end to the ordeal. As it turned out, that was wrong. Consider this. People who work for the federal court system don't have the same kinds of job protections that most other Americans do. A nearly year-long NPR investigation has found problems with the way the court's police sexual harassment and bullying and a pervasive culture of fear about blowing the whistle.

From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. It's Consider This from NPR. The voice of the Alaska law clerk you heard before the break was not her real voice, although those are her words, verbatim. We used a voice actor because she was too afraid to talk. I'll turn it over to NPR's justice correspondent, Carrie Johnson, to help you understand why. And a warning, this piece contains a description of sexual assault. About a week after she left the judge's chamber, she ran into him at a party.

I'm going to tell the next part of the story entirely from allegations in the court papers. That's in part because retelling it to me was too painful. At the party, he tried to get her to sit next to him on the couch. Eventually she left, but she got a text from him saying he needed to talk to her. It was cold that night, so the judge suggested they chat inside his apartment. Once inside, the judge insisted she come to the bedroom. At first, she sat on the corner of the bed, but he wanted her to lay down. Then she told investigators he grabbed her breast.

She tried to pull his arm off, but he was really strong. I just remember thinking, like there's nothing I can do about this, she told the investigators. This is about to happen. Like I always felt like this thing he could not touch. And finally, he felt like he could touch. A judge's control over the future of a young lawyer is real and lasting.

With only a phone call, a judge can open doors to a lucrative job at a law firm or shut them permanently. And there's no one really policing what happens inside a judge's chambers beside the judge themselves. Judicial independence and protecting the balance of power give judges a tremendous amount of sway over workplace rules. independence and protecting the balance of power give judges a tremendous amount of sway over workplace rules. For nearly a year, I interviewed 42 people, current and former workers within the federal

court system, about their experience. They're men and women who work for more than two dozen judges, appointed by presidents from both major political parties. I heard from people whose self-confidence was shattered by judges who screamed so loudly, others could hear from the hallways, people who were fired after a week or two on the job for no clear reason.

Some described sexual harassment like in the case of the Alaska clerk. Many more shared episodes of bullying, and others said they faced discrimination because they had a disability or were pregnant. And things can get pretty tough for clerks who speak out. When the Alaska clerk reported the assault, she told a colleague who had been assigned to mentor her, but that mentor said she also had been coerced. When I reported to my mentor, she was also the person that had been sending him nude photos and immediately told him that I reported the sexual assault.

Her mentor later said the judge's power and authority contributed to the pressure she felt and he told her he would have sway over a job she wanted. The former clerk heard from friends the judge was furious, and when she ran into him, he warned her to keep her head down and shut up. The actual sexual assault was awful. Don't, I mean, it was completely awful. And you know, I've since sought therapy for that and help. But what happened next was almost worse. The court system

ultimately launched an investigation into the judge, Joshua Kindred. What followed were multiple rounds of interviews with investigators who cross-examined her and stress-tested her credibility. The court investigation took more than a year. All the while, two other young women clerks in the judge's chambers continued to work by his side. Then, in July... Now with the Ninth Circuit's report released just hours ago,

we learned back in May that the judge was told he could face impeachment if he did not resign for what the counsel concluded was sexual misconduct with a clerk. Judge Joshua Kindred told investigators that the sexual experience was sexual misconduct with a clerk. Judge Joshua Kindred told investigators that the sexual experience was consensual and that he had no, quote, sinister intent. The special committee found the judge deliberately lied

when he said nothing sexual had happened between them. But the committee did not reach a conclusion about whether the judge sexually assaulted the former clerk, finding there was enough evidence to say the judge committed misconduct without even resolving that issue. Judge Kindred did not respond to NPR's attempts to reach him for comment. The clerk said she felt let down by the process. I was sexually assaulted.

I'm not sure why that was a fact in dispute, perhaps not a fact in dispute, but not a conclusion drawn by the report. And I've never wavered on that fact, that that was immediately what I reported to the U.S. Attorney's Office. The federal judiciary points to the departure of the Alaska judge as a demonstration the system works. The Administrative Office of the Courts, which sets policy from Washington, says they've taken extensive steps to protect clerks and other workers since the MeToo movement swept

the country in 2017. And they say they hold judges to the highest standards. But our investigation uncovered problems with the reporting system in the judicial branch. For one, there's a widespread culture of fear, and there's a good reason for that. Jamie Baker's a former judge who also worked in the White House and the military.

The location where I found the power differential the most distinct was when I was serving as a judge with law clerks. And I think that's something worth noting. Not only is the relationship intense, it often comes with a huge age gap. Gabe Roth is executive director of Fix the Court. He's pushing the federal courts to be more accountable. Judges are life tenured.

The average age of federal judges right now is about 65 or 68. Law clerks, they are roughly, let's say, 26 to 30. Another person pushing for change is Congresswoman Norma Torres, a Democrat from California. Well, good morning, everyone. It's good to see all of you here. Last fall, she convened a group of experts on the Hill to try to draw attention to the problem. I don't need to be a lawyer to know that people in power with no oversight get to sweep

people and problems under the rug. Torres says the courts operate in a patchwork so no one's in charge of overseeing all the systems that employees use to report misconduct. She's working alongside Georgia Congressman Hank Johnson. Good morning. Pleasure to see you, sir. Great to see you also. Thank you all for being here.

You ready to go? Okay. Johnson's walking us through the Rayburn House Office Building and into the Capitol to introduce the Judiciary Accountability Act. His bill would make clear the same legal protections for workers in the private sector and the executive branch, also apply to the 30,000 people who work for the federal courts.

This is just one small step, but a very important step to bring about some accountability. The legislation did not get a hearing before Congress left town last year. The people who work for federal judges, for probation departments, for public defenders, they can't go to the executive branch for help. And it's not clear they can sue in courts either. Aliza Schatzman runs the Legal Accountability Project. The federal judiciary is outrageously exempt from Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. That means that if you are a law

clerk and you are sexually harassed, fired, retaliated against by a federal judge, you have no legal recourse. The federal courts say they've done a lot to make sure workers are treated with dignity and respect. But I've been told clerks who run into trouble on the job still face tremendous pressure to remain silent. A bad word from a judge can derail a clerk's career while judges serve for life. I heard it again and again. Those judges who behave badly, often it's an open secret inside the courthouse.

But nobody does anything about it. Many clerks graduated from top law schools and pride themselves on their smarts and resilience, only to break down in tears when they talk about hostile treatment they suffered working for federal judges. The judiciary protects its own, one clerk told me. Another said, I can handle a tough boss. I can't handle an abusive boss. I just wish more people would talk about it.

That was NPR Justice correspondent Kerry Johnson. This episode was produced by Monika Evstatieva and Elena Burnett. It was edited by Barry Hardiman, Krishnadev Kolomor and Courtney Dornig. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigen. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.