Consider This from NPR - When it comes to the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia, it's complicated

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

President Trump is deepening the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia, despite the government coming under fire for human right abuses, despite the concerns the prince himself ordered the killing of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Why is Saudi Arabia such an important ally for the United States? For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at [e-mail] episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez and Karen Zamora.It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Dana Farrington and Courtney Dorning.Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

President Biden once vowed to make Saudi Arabia a pariah state. We were going to, in fact, make them pay the price and make them, in fact, the pariah that they are. And by pay the price, Biden is referring to the Saudi government's role in the 2018 murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi. The U.S. intelligence community concluded that Saudi crown prince, Muhammad bin Salman, approved the killing. Saudi Arabia has denied his role. There's very little social redeeming value in the... the present government in Saudi Arabia. But after promising to punish the kingdom, Biden changed his tune. After he became president, Biden traveled to Riyadh in 2022 to rebuild relations, but kept

the Saudi government in arms length away until today. We have an extremely respected man in the Oval Office today and a friend of mine for a long time, a very good friend of mine. President Trump welcomed the crown prince to the White House with a level of pomp and circumstance rarely on display. There was a military flyover and a welcome from the U.S. Marine ban. Mohamed bin Salman last visited the U.S. seven years ago, just months before Khashoggi's death. The Crown Prince has denied responsibility for the killing. Here he is at the White House on Tuesday. It's been painful for us in Saudi Arabia. We've did all the right steps of investigation, etc., in Saudi Arabia, and we've improved our system to be sure that nothing has.

happen like that. And it's painful and it's a huge mistake. And we're doing our best that this doesn't happen again. Trump dismissed the findings Tuesday. It's a signal to friends and foes alike that you can literally get away with murder if you're the right kind of partner to the United States. That's Jason Rezion. He's the director for press freedom initiatives at the Washington Post. The paper where Kishoggi was a columnist when he was murdered, he spoke to NPR Tuesday morning. I think it's a mistake for the United States to greenlight the type of behavior that Mohammed bin Salman has been guilty of multiple times. Consider this. President Trump is deepening the U.S. relationship with Saudi Arabia. Despite the government coming under fire for human rights abuses, despite the concerns the prince himself ordered the killing of a journalist.

Why is Saudi Arabia such an important ally for the United States? From NPR, I'm Juana Summers. This message comes from Wise, the app for using money around the globe. When you manage your money with Wise, you'll always get the mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Join millions of customers and visit Wise.com. T's and Cs apply. This message comes from Bayer. Science is a rigorous process that requires questions, testing, transparency, and results that can be proven. This approach is integral to every breakthrough Bayer brings forward. Innovations that save lives and feed the world.

Science delivers.com. At Radio Lab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science. Neuroscience, chemistry. But we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or politics. Country music. Hockey. Sex.

Of bugs. Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, We bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers. And hopefully make you see the world anew. Radio Lab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get your podcast. It's consider this from NPR. President Trump met with Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammed bin Salman on Tuesday.

The men touted a deal between the two countries. The Saudi government would bring hundreds of billions. and investment into United States, and in exchange, the United States would grant access to key military and technology assets for the Gulf Nation. NPR White House correspondent Daniel Kurtzleben joined me to talk about the meeting. So, Danielle, I know that there is a whole lot of ceremony around the Crown Prince's arrival, and this evening there is a black-tie dinner. What does all of this tell us about the way that President Trump is approaching this visit?

Well, it shows very clearly that Trump is really excited about the visit. after all, he's welcomed many foreign leaders this year, and he doesn't give them all swanky dinners. So the tone is celebratory. Already today in the Oval Office with the Crown Prince, Trump was emphasizing potential Saudi investments in the U.S. and really seemed excited about that. So we should expect a lot of investment talk. In fact, there's an event tomorrow called the U.S. Saudi Investment Forum at the Kennedy Center. And it's set to include speakers from tech, oil, and medicine, pharma companies. And so it's really meant to telegraph that the Saudi U.S. partnership is going to be great for business.

Saudi Arabia has repeatedly come under fire for human rights abuses. I'm thinking specifically of the killing of Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018. And that did come up during today's presser. Let's listen. As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you're talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happened, but he knew nothing about it.

And we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that. And I'll note that U.S. intelligence has found that Mohammed bin Salman did approve the operation to kill Khashoggi. However, we should say that the Crown Prince does deny having a role. Tell us more about that exchange today. Well, even before Khashoggi came up, at the start of the meeting, Trump praised the Crown Prince on his human rights record. And then when a reporter asked about Khashoggi, as you heard, President Trump got angry and, shockingly, didn't condemn the killing and dismemberment of a journalist from an American news outlet. Rather, Trump called Khashoggi, who was Saudi, controversial. Now, the crown prince did answer after that, and he said the killing was a painful incident and that his country has taken steps to make sure nothing like that will ever happen again.

Right. Okay. We know that economics and security, they're both top priority. here. What deals are the U.S. and Saudi Arabia hoping to get out of this visit? Well, let's start with what Saudi Arabia wants. That country wants to buy advanced F-35 jets, which Trump has said this week the U.S. will sell to them. Saudi Arabia also wants access to advanced AI chips, and they want U.S. assistance on developing nuclear power, although today in that meeting Trump said nuclear cooperation isn't urgent right now. But finally, the Saudis are looking for a defense pact. They want an agreement that the U.S. would help defense. their country if they were attacked. And what about what the U.S. wants? Well, the Crown Prince has already

said earlier this year that his country would do $600 billion in investments in the U.S. Today, he said there could be even more investments than that, which Trump got pretty excited about. But also, Trump is going to be pushing Saudi Arabia to sign onto the Abraham Accords, which is a series of diplomatic deals he brokered in his first term between Israel and other Arab countries. But there's a pretty significant hurdle to that happening. Today, Mohammed bin Salman said he wants to be part of the Abraham Accords, but also wants a two-state solution. Now, Biniam and Netanyahu, the leader of Israel, has said there will never be a Palestinian state. Last thing and quickly, Danielle, President Trump was also asked today about his family's business dealings in Saudi Arabia.

How do you respond? Well, he brushed off any concerns about conflicts of interest. He said he isn't involved in the family business right now. But the ties between the Trump organization and Saudi Arabia are still there. For example, Trump-branded properties are being developed in Saudi Arabia. NPR White House correspondent Daniel Kurtzleben, thank you. Thank you. This episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez and Karen Zamora.

It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Dana Farrington, and Courtney Dorney. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider the... from NPR. I'm Juana Summers. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you very much, everybody. We have an extremely respected man in the Oval Office today, and a friend of mine for a long time, a very good friend of mine, and I'm very proud of the job he's done. What he's done is incredible in terms of human rights and and everything else.

And he's the crown prince, the future king, and I just... You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo,

Liz Cheney, or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Jeffrey Hinton, or some of my extraordinarily well-en well-informed colleagues at The New Yorker. So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, wherever you listen to podcasts. This message comes from the Financial Times. Lead poisoning is a hidden epidemic in the UK.

On the Untold podcast, hear from people who have been affected. Where is the national strategy to address this? Listen to Untold, Toxic Legacy, wherever you get your podcasts. Keeping up with the news can feel like, a 24-hour job. Luckily, it is our job. Every hour on the NPR News Now podcast, we take the latest, most important stories happening, and we package them into five-minute episodes so you can easily squeeze them in between meetings and on your way to that thing. Listen to the NPR News Now podcast. Now.