Consider This from NPR - Where did U.S. support for Ukraine go?

Episode Date: October 20, 2026

President Trump is turning U.S. policy on Ukraine upside down. He and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy have been taking shots at one another in the press. What does this shift mean for that country's war with Russia and the global order?This episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez and Connor Donevan, with audio engineering by Damian Herring. Our director is Jonas Adams.It was edited by Sarah Handel and Tinbete Ermyas.Our executive producer is Courtney Dorning.Support public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening. Learn more at plus.npr.org.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

It's considered this where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, what President Trump's pivot to Russia means for Ukraine. Lately Trump and Ukrainian president Volodemir Zelensky have been taking shots at each other in the press. Here's Trump earlier this month. That's a war that should have never started. And I think it's time for Ukraine to get a new president. That was shortly after Trump reached a deal to import diesel from Russia, providing it with a big financial boost. Zelensky called that move a weak,

decision by a strong partner. Here he is in an interview on Pierce Morgan uncensored. I think his advisors are wrong. I don't know who is pushing him not to the right side. This is not right side of history. Asked about that remark. Monday, Trump said this. Zelensky said it.

Zelensky doesn't know what he's talking about. Zelensky is a man that should have had this war settled a long time ago. If he would have listened to me, he would have made a much better deal a long time ago, and it'd have a million people living from his side. This is not the first time that Trump and Zelensky have seemingly fallen out. Remember that big on-camera blowup in the Oval Office last year. But Trump's scathing rhetoric is landing alongside real-world decisions that could tilt the battlefield in Russia's favor.

On top of that diesel purchase, Trump has called off sanctions, sanctions he had just signed into law that were intended to force Russia to the negotiating table. Michael McFal, a former U.S. ambassador to Russia, told NPR it looks like the U.S. has switched sides. This is unprecedented in American history. I can't think of a time when in a similar kind of situation in a hundred years where we've decided, oh, we're going to support the autocrats, the imperialists, against a country fighting for its independence with a democratically elected leader. Consider this. Trump is turning U.S. policy on Ukraine upside down.

we will talk to another former ambassador about what that means for the war and for the global order. From NPR, I'm Scott Detrow. It's considered this from NPR. When Russia first attacked Ukraine nearly five years ago, Joe Biden was president and the official U.S. response sounded like this.

Putin's aggression against Ukraine will end up costing Russia dearly, economically and strategically. We will make sure of that. Putin will be a pariah. on the international stage. Now President Trump is making explicit overtures to Russian President Putin,

and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been left to plead with members of Congress and European allies not to abandon his country in its fight. We're losing people and time, and it's so pity, because our children don't have real life, childhood, and all the people beyonds.

That's why we need to end this war as quick, is both by hope that our partners, Americans and Europeans will help us. To take stock of this moment, I spoke with former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor. You served under both the George W. Bush administration and the Obama administration. And before we get into the last few weeks, let's start with this. What was the biggest material change in terms of the U.S. view of Ukraine when President Trump came back into office? Well, Scott, you remind us that the Russians actually first invaded in 2014. when Obama was president.

And then when they invaded in 2022 and Biden was president, there was outrage. There was a strong reaction. Eventually, the Biden administration got around to providing weapons that the Ukrainians needed. So that unified, there was a unified response, not just within the United States, but also internationally. And that we are now losing.

You know, we all remember that blow-up meeting between Trump and Zelensky and the Oval Office in February 2025 early months of this new administration. I think a lot of people found it shocking. And a lot of people thought of that time, well, that might be it for Ukraine in terms of U.S. support. The military support has continued. The aid has continued. What has changed in recent weeks? Well, actually, the military support has not continued. At that time, back in that time of the Oval Office meeting, you're right. There was a big flow of weapons, of ammunition, of finance, of humanitarian support, and Ukraine needed all of that. It was counting on the United States for a big flow. Today, that's much less.

The assistance has dropped by, Scott, by 95%. We're not providing any weapons or ammunition. We're providing no financial support. So there's a lot less on the table. What we do provide still, or it had been, is reliable military intelligence. and Starlink and the ability of the Europeans to buy weapons for the Ukrainians from American firms. All of that's in jeopardy at this point, which is to say, which is to say that we, the United States and this administration has much less influence, much less say about what goes on in this war. How likely do you think it is of an absolute hard stop on all of those things?

I think it's unlikely. I think it's unlikely because the American people and, and, and the Congress have been very clear in terms of the support for Ukraine and opposition to Putin. And I think there is, you're already seeing that. You've been reporting this, Scott. There is already pushed back from Republicans and others across the board. I think this will have an effect. I wanted to get your point on something we talked about in the introduction. Those interceptor missiles, Ukraine gets a small batch every month through NATO countries. The U.S. has to sign off on it. A U.S. official not authorized to speak publicly confirms the paperwork is being held up right now on the Secretary of Defense's desk. But when Secretary of State Marco Rubio was asked about this, he said there's nothing being deliberately denied to Ukraine.

There has not been some deliberate political directive to go out and harm Ukraine. I'm curious how you see it. If that's true, Scott, if what the Secretary of State says is true, there's no decision, then that means the policy is to continue to provide those. And that must mean, I would assume that means that the Secretary of Defense will continue to operate under the existing policy that the Secretary of State says is still in effect. That is, provide the weapons, provide the military intelligence, provide the Starlink. What do you think, this has been a question on a lot of people's minds for a decade now, but what do you think President Trump's ultimate goal is with Russia and with his seeming eagerness to settle this war on terms favorable to Russia? President Trump has been pretty clear that he wants to end this war, and that's a good thing, and he's put some effort into a negotiation, and that's a good thing.

The problem has been that he has given gifts, carrots to the Russians, and seems to have shifted into a pro-Russian stance and an anti-Ukrainian stance. That is not going to end the war. President Trump is not going to succeed at ending this war if he puts his weight behind the Russians, because the Ukrainians will not stop, Scott. The Ukrainians can't stop. If they stop, then there's no Ukraine. I mean, is there a line of thinking that's pretty present in politics that you're aware of that saying this war has been going on for four years.

So many lives have been lost. So much money has been spent American money, EU money, Ukrainian money. What do you say to the enough is enough argument of end this war on the terms and end this strange mix of drone warfare and World War I trench warfare that's been in place for years? now? The Ukrainians have a say. The Ukrainians know what it's like to live under the Russians. They know this argument better than anyone. They know how bad it is for them. They know how often they get battered by the Russians. And they are continuing to resist because they see what happens when some of their co-patriots, their compatriots, where they live under Russian rule, it's horrible. They don't want to live there. They're going to continue to resist.

that. That is William Taylor, a distinguished fellow at the Atlantic Council and a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Scott. This episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Damien Herring. Our director is Jonas Adams. It was edited by Sarah Handel and Timbeat Armius. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dorney. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow.