Consider This from NPR - Why are Israel's deals to exchange hostages so lopsided?

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

An Israeli delegation is in Cairo to hash out details for the second phase of a ceasefire deal with Hamas. Under the first phase of the deal, Hamas agreed to release a total of 33 Israeli hostages – and Israel said it would free around 1,900 Palestinian prisoners and detainees.NPR's Jerome Socolovsky looks into why Israel has long accepted lopsided deals to bring back abducted citizens. For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

On Sunday, Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio in Jerusalem. At the press conference afterwards, Netanyahu hugged Rubio and was enthusiastic about Israel's relationship with the U.S. President Trump is the greatest friend that Israel has ever had in the White House. And the visit in Washington reflected that in every way. And your visit here reflects it in every way. Lyle Nantanyahu also praised what he called Trump's bold vision for Gaza, a vision that includes relocating Palestinians from Gaza to neighboring countries and rebuilding the

strip under U.S. ownership. And Nantanyahu insisted that he and Trump are on the same page about the urgency of releasing the remaining Israeli hostages. President Trump and I are working in full cooperation and coordination between us. We have a common strategy, including when the gates of hell will be opened, as they surely will if all our hostages are not released until the last one of them." Before this past weekend, 24 hostages and more than 730 Palestinian prisoners had been freed during phase one of the ceasefire deal. This weekend, three more were released, all civilian men, in exchange for more than 360 Palestinian prisoners and

detainees held in Israeli jails. There are nearly 10,000 Palestinians in custody in Israel and the West Bank, many held without charge. The current phase of the ceasefire deal ends in less than two weeks, and an Israeli delegation traveled to Cairo today to hash out details for a second phase, even as the number of Palestinian prisoners released, especially ones convicted of serious crimes, has sparked debate among Israelis. Consider this. As talks move toward the second phase of a ceasefire deal, we look at the politics of these exchanges. phase of a ceasefire deal, we look at the politics of these exchanges. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

It's considered this from NPR. An Israeli delegation is in Cairo, Egypt today to talk about the conditions for a second phase of the ceasefire deal. Under the first phase, Hamas agreed to release a total of 33 Israeli hostages, and Israel said it would free around 1,900 Palestinian prisoners and detainees. And Piers Jerome Sokolowski looked into why Israel repeatedly accepts deals like this. The wall in Gershon Baskin's office is covered with framed certificates. In the middle, there's a letter from the prime minister. It says, thank you once again.

He never thanked me, but to thank you once again. Baskin is an Israeli peace activist. In 2011, he used his Palestinian contacts to help the Israeli government free a soldier named Gilad Shalit. Militants from the Palestinian group Hamas had taken him hostage five years earlier. The Prime Minister's letter is dated eight days after Shalit's release. And it thanks Baskin on behalf of the Israeli government. Benjamin Netanyahu's government at the time agreed to exchange Shalit for 1,027 Palestinian

prisoners. One of them was named Yahya Sinwar. He later became the leader of Hamas in Gaza. The October 2023 massacre that he masterminded and the ensuing war with Israel killed around 1800 Israelis and 47,000 Palestinians. Hamas also took more than 250 hostages. I wonder if you have any regrets about the Shalit deal? Look, I have no regrets about the Shalit deal.

Shalit was saved if he had been in captivity in another month. His condition would have deteriorated quickly, Baskin believes. Gilad Shalit wasn't the first Israeli exchanged for a large number of prisoners. Soldiers and civilians captured by militant groups in Lebanon have also been freed for hundreds of detainees. And POW exchanges during the Arab-Israeli wars were often similarly lopsided. In the current conflict, Israel has many bargaining chips.

There are nearly 10,000 Palestinians in custody in Israel and the West Bank, many held without charge. That's not to say Israel's government wants to do the deals in this way, says Baskin. Believe me, the Israelis would love to do one for one. They would have no problem doing one for one. But there are a couple of problems with one for one. It's long been a Palestinian goal to free as many of their prisoners in Israeli jails as possible, and the families of Israeli hostages want them out as fast as possible.

In this country, which relies on a people's army, there's a social contract. Sons and daughters are drafted, and if they're captured, the government vows it will bring them back through force or diplomacy. But for many Israelis, this hostage crisis presents a wrenching dilemma. Some are worried the exchanges will incentivize future hostage-taking. Some government ministers say fighting Hamas is the priority. And families rallying in the streets for a deal to bring their loved ones home have been smeared as disloyal, says Baskin. The issue of the hostages was politicized by Netanyahu and his propaganda machine in a way that many Israelis believe that if you make a deal with Hamas, you are supporting Hamas.

Actually, Hamas is almost universally loathed in Israel. But polls show overwhelming support for this deal. For many, it's as much about redeeming the hostages as it is about preserving one of Israel's core values. Rabbi Danil Hartman flips through a text by the medieval Jewish scholar Maimonides, and he reads a tract. And there is no greater commandment than redeeming the hostages. Hartman is president of the Shalom Hartman Institute,

which advocates for democracy and pluralism in Israel. Taking Jews captive, he says, has been a problem for more than 2,000 years. It's often been done to convert them out of their faith, and Hartman says, also for ransom. It's another reason the ethic of redemption is so strong in Israel. It's a self-evident truth that we do not leave our people behind. Human life, above all else, a group of protesters chant outside the defense ministry. There have been protests like this one throughout the war,

accusing the government of abandoning the hostages. But even those who favor the hostage-for-prisoner swaps say it's been hard to watch people walk free after they've been convicted in Israeli courts of murder. A number of them were serving life terms for shootings and suicide bombings in buses, cafes, restaurants and other places around the country going back decades.

Some Israeli lawmakers want to prevent future swaps by making terrorism subject to capital punishment. It was abolished back in the 1950s for murder convictions. Hartman says it won't work. There's a fantasy that we should pass a law that we're never going to do this again, or we should have the death penalty. There's fantasies that somehow, you know, I appreciate them, that we shouldn't be exposed and we shouldn't be vulnerable, but it doesn't matter. You can pass any law you want. At the end of the day, if they have somebody, we're going to pay the price.

Because, he says, though it may seem like a vulnerability, upholding a value like this one is a source of strength. Spanish-speaking journalists join a Zoom call with a Mexican-born Israeli who was held hostage by Hamas. It's not easy for Ilana Grichevsky to remain composed as she recalls the torment she went through at the hands of her captors. They broke my collarbone, destroyed my jaw, burned my leg, and my hip is broken. She says they also told her she would have to marry them and bear their children.

But she knew it would end. In November 2023, she and more than a hundred other hostages were released in exchange for 240 Palestinian detainees. I never lost hope that they would do everything to bring me back, she says. It's something that if you lose it, you don't survive. Jerome Sokolovski, NPR News, Tel Aviv. This episode was produced by Mia Van Cat, Michael Levitt, and Christine Aerosmith. It was edited by James Heider, Nishant Dahiya, Jeanette Woods, and Tommy Evans. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan.

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.