Consider This from NPR - Wild Card: Jenny Slate

Episode Date: May 4, 2024

Welcome to Wild Card with Rachel Martin. In this first episode, Rachel talks to Jenny Slate, known for her roles in Obvious Child, Marcel the Shell with Shoes On and Parks and Recreation. Jenny opens up about whether fate brought her to her husband, what she's sacrificed for motherhood and what's so special about margarine and white bread sandwiches.Subscribe to Wild Card here.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. When you're talking with somebody for the first time, usually you have to wait a little bit before you get to the real stuff. So you talk about the weather or sports or your kids or whatever, and then once you've established some trust, you can venture into deeper waters, like a vivid dream that's always stayed with them, or a different career path they wish they had taken, or maybe their definition of God.

Well, my colleague Rachel Martin has come up with a shortcut to get to the real parts of a conversation quicker. Pick a card one through three. On our new show, Rachel asks guests to choose questions at random, questions that go deep. What's the biggest sacrifice you've ever made? And we are in your feed on a Saturday to share the very first episode of Rachel's brand new NPR podcast called Wild Card. And Rachel Martin is here to introduce it. Hey, Rachel. Hi, Scott. So this is pretty cool. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm pretty excited about it. Tell me about the show. Okay. So it's an interview game show, right? And it's based on this deck of cards. Each card has a really big, interesting question written on it. I hold three of these cards up at a time to my guest.

And then they pick at random. One, two, or three. They can't see what the question is. So there's an element of chance. And it's sort of like choose your own adventure. And I don't even know where the conversation is going to go. There are a couple rules. You can skip a question if you're not into it.

Okay. And you can flip it. You can ask me to answer the question before you do. You still got to answer it. Can you do that every time or just once? You just get it once. Also, there's a prize at the end because it's a game. So I'm curious about where the format came from because we were talking about the way that you were putting this new show together.

And then I checked in a little while later and suddenly it was a game. And I was very surprised by this development, but it seems to have worked well. When did that first pop into your head? You know, it was a lot of conversations and we wanted to create a place that was fun, you know, where, yes, we could talk about these meaningful questions about how to navigate a life and how to be a good person, big existential questions that we all have. And we wanted it to be playful at the same time. And that might seem incongruous when you first hear it, like, what? How are we going to do this existential bit? And how are you going to make me laugh? And I hope we do both. That was the intention, is to do both.

I see you've brought some cards with you so we get a sense of what kind of questions we're talking about. You know. So I'll give you some examples, right? Here are a few of them. What do you admire about your teenage self? Do you have

an immediate answer to that? Lately I've been focusing on the things that embarrass me about my teenage self. Oh. But I think I was very idealistic

and opinionated. I was very like up in people's faces in a way that I'm not as an adult. And you liked that. There were faces in a way that I'm not as an adult. And you liked that. There were some qualities to it that I wish I could bring back. There's some ways that I'm glad I'm a little more chill as an adult.

But I love that. I love that. Here's another one. I feel like this is rapid fire, but that's okay. When do you feel most like an outsider? Oh. Another one. This is a big one.

Do you think there's order in the universe or is it all chaos? I think it's very much order. Wow. See, and that's a question people have to sit and think, and you just had it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited to hear some of the people that you've done this with. You've got Issa Rae, Chris Pine, Poet Laureate Ada Limon, but your first episode is with comedian Jenny Slate, who I love.

We'll listen to that in a second, but why did with comedian Jenny Slate, who I love. We'll listen to that in a second, but why did you want Jenny Slate to play this game? Oh, she's the best. I've been a longtime fan of hers, so just full disclosure, she's got a weird and wonderful mind. She's deeply introspective, and she's just super funny. So I just knew she could occupy that space really well. All right, well, let's hear it. Oh, and hey, just a heads up. There is a smidge of colorful language in this episode. I mean, I think it is very well placed cursing. I'm going to let you be the judge. There are also some very vivid descriptions of the mechanics of giving birth, but you know what? We all got to learn it sometime, right? Okay. Here's the episode. Round one. This is about memories,

okay? We're looking back at the people, experiences, places that shaped you. I am holding three cards in my hand. Wow, I'm nervous. Why? Okay, whatever. Don't be nervous. Don't be nervous. Okay. Pick a card. One through three. Three. Three. Oh. What's an ordinary place that feels extraordinary to you because of what happened there? You know, this sounds really almost, I don't know, maybe gross or something, but it's not, or too much or something or gloopy, cheesy. But I really feel that way about our bedroom in Massachusetts and not because I'm like, you won't believe what went down in here. But that I, my husband is someone who I met as a stranger. And I really felt that I would

not see him again. I thought about him a lot. And I heard from another friend about where he lived in Massachusetts. And it felt to me that he lived almost in another dimension. The more I would hear about his personality, the more I just felt like, yeah, but I would never be able to be with someone like that. You know, they would never like me and it just wouldn't work and how would I get there and whatever. And I just remember the first time that I went to sleep in that bedroom and we were sleeping and I was like, wow, this is a real place. You know, like it's kind of like seeing the Eiffel Tower. And I just was like, I can't believe like it is real. It is real. And I'm here and I, I really feel that way

still. And, and now that, and that was when he lived there by himself and it was just filled with like so much of his his we live in a house that was built for his great-grandmother and it was like filled with like a hundred years of stuff um and it felt very like bachelory uh old like old-fashioned like Dickensian bachelory like you know there's like a taxidermied tortoise in here like what is going on and like as all bachelors have totally just like, whoa. And like heavy draperies from before. And I just was like, what the, and you know, now that we live there, it's like very sparse. Um, I prefer a more shaker aesthetic. Um, like I just want one pitcher. I just, like, wanted one old pitcher on one old cupboard and, like, one old rug and one bed and nothing. I just don't want any stuff. No,

I don't want any appliances. We can have a lamp, but, like, you know. But when I'm in there, I'm like, I cannot believe this. I can't believe this happened. Do you, I, you had been married before you were divorced. Did something have to change in you to make this relationship work? Or did it, it was just like timing and you see him, And I think of it a lot as like at the beginning of our relationship, like I met him and then a year later we started to date and I couldn't stop the timing of falling in love with him and it was right for both of us to fall in love. And that was totally right on. But while walking down that path, I was very aware that I was injured. And it was like learning to trust was not just learning to trust, like the big things, you know, I hope this person won't lie to me. I hope that they,

they won't tell me they're having one experience while having another. I hope they won't secretly resent me for the things that they first thought were attractive about me. Like, you know, I think as a person who is a performer and you want to kind of shine your power out, that can be really attractive to people, and then all of a sudden they can get angry about it, that it's not just for them. And I had to understand that the big things I could trust him for,

but that the things that really play on my self-worth, like will this person still stay with me if I need soothing and I am what appears to be almost irrationally afraid because of the damage or the injuries that I, you know, have already happened to me? And yeah, like, I want to walk down this road with you, but will you be with me if I limp? And will you carry me if I just am like too tired? Will you accept me for the state that I'm in if I promise that I really am working to heal and go forward? And he said yes to all those things, presumably. Jeez, seems like he did. I don't know. Yeah, no, he did.

He did. He did. And I said yes to them for him, too. You know, like I'm not just the, you know, living disaster and he's perfect. I mean, I think he's perfect. Well, he had bad taste in, you know, bedrooms and clutter. Totally. That turtle in there.

Still round one. Three new cards. Pick a number one through three. Sorry. I just forgot all the numbers. I know. So one. I was almost like, hey.

Hey. One. One. What's the biggest sacrifice you've ever made? Ooh, you go first. Aren't I allowed to make you do that? You are. Okay.

And truly, I actually have not thought of answers to all these questions, which maybe in retrospect I should have, but I really haven't. So what have I sacrificed? I mean, my sleep there. This is the easy one. I have sacrificed my sleep for my job. I did for many years. I did this job. I hosted Morning Edition. I had to get up at three in the morning. And I just am a bad sleeper. And I worst possible version of myself. And then I was the worst colleague. I was the worst parent. I was the worst spouse. I was the worst friend. And sooner or later, I just woke up and I was like, this sacrifice is no longer worth it to me. So that's my answer. Yeah, I get that. But now you have to answer it. I've got to say, and I really don't like it when people are like flip or glib, but I think that the biggest sacrifice that I have ever made, I put my physical body through pregnancy and exploded my vagina. That's right. You know, and that is real. Yes, it is. If you, it's a huge sacrifice.

And there's a joke in my special about that, like, you know, just like how we would treat a man if he had exploded his penis to let a baby out. You know, how we would feel about it. And, I mean, of course, it's all in comedy, and it's not meant to be disrespectful, but it is a sacrifice. Sometimes I just feel that we don't— I don't like this phrasing, and I'm about to use it, but we don't talk about this enough. But it's like the weirdest thing about giving birth to me, to me.

Because I knew it was coming, but I really, when it was factually happening, I was like, oh, it's just this. It's that I have just sustained the largest injury to my body of my life. I am completely, like I am exploded. And now I don't actually get to rehabilitate myself the way that I, like if my vagina were exploded in a war, they would put me in a facility to help me get back on my feet. But this is like, you explode your vagina or you get, you know, cut open in an emergency. If you're the parent that gave birth, if that's the way you get your child. There are lots of different ways.

This is just mine. But then they're just like, can you pee right now? And you're just like, no, that's like a crazy thing. With my exploded vagina. Yeah, like how dare you? And then also you're not, no, you don't go to bed. You don't. And you better make some milk right away because if you don't, not that there's not formula, but if you don't in this patriarchy, you'll feel ashamed.

Right. You know, and then you're going to have to of like accelerated my own personal evolution to have my daughter. And I also think that even though the birth was a birth, I'm lucky enough to say that it was like safe. And even though it was like during a plague and I had to wear a mask, it was the most positive experience of my life because I exceeded all of the limits of what I thought I was capable of. And I, like, met it, like, softly and with flexibility and a ton of screaming and also, like, pooping. But, like, I'm like, yeah, I did it. Like, I definitely did that. And I'm really, really brave about my body.

And I didn't realize that I am. And I am really, really brave about my body. And I didn't realize that I am. And I am. Yeah. So. And later when you're jumping on the trampoline with your daughter and you start to pee a little bit, you'll have her to thank. Oh, my God. You can explain it. As if that hasn't already happened.

That's never happened to me ever. I don't know where I got that. Oh, my gosh. I haven't peed again, honestly. We're going to pause for a quick break more with jenny slate after this okay we are moving on round two this is about insights right these are lessons that you're learning things you're working on right now. Three new cards. Pick a card, one through three.

Two. What is something you think about very differently today than you did 10 years ago? Wow. I guess dressing. Like, not salad dressing. I've always loved it and I'll never stop. Love ranch. I love ranch i love ranch um dressing my body dressing your body yeah what is different about how you think of that

i think i just um i'm pleased to say that i've come through a fair amount of internalized misogyny. And like, so 10 years ago, I was 31. And it was like, you better wear that bikini. You better wear that bikini. You know, this just, this horrible, horrible, brutal feelings about my physical body and about how I needed to present, like what sexiness was and how much of my body to show and what it was like. And I didn't, I've always had a pretty clear sense of actually what I find to be beautiful. But I feel like it was sort of muddled up, muddied. And now I just like kind of want to dress like Jane Goodall. She has amazing style.

But sometimes with a crop top. Yeah, I don't know. Let it flow. I don't really know, but I'm just like, nobody here is seeing my camel toe ever again. You have got to be kidding me. If you think that I'm wearing yoga pants once in my life, unless I'm playing a character who wears that. I'm working out in big sweatpants. And by working out, I mean I'm in my house doing laundry. You know, there's no way.

I just used to feel that I had to prove that, like, my butt was there. And now I'm like, it's not relevant. It's not relevant to the conversation, to any conversation. It's not relevant whether or not you think my butt is there. I know it's there. My toilet knows it's there. And like my husband knows it's there. And unfortunately, some of my friends know it's there. Okay. Next question in round two, pick a card one through three. Two.

Two. Two. Two. Two. What are you most afraid of at this point in your life? I'm like, I'm just like always afraid that something bad will happen to the people that I love. I feel that so strongly, but I felt that way, like this sort of the threat. I genuinely, and this sounds like almost foolish, I don't think about my own death at all, not because I'm pushing it like a fear, like gaggy, closed-throat fear that they would get in a car accident on the way home. And I've lost three out of four of my grandparents, and it is a searing, terrible loss, even though I'm an adult. And I know one thing you kind of know about grandparents is that they'll probably die before other people that you know, and that's really terrifying. But I've just always been that way, and obviously now that I have my daughter, I really have to not let that take over, that fear.

I will tell you, I feel like that's the hardest part of parenting is really not getting, not suffocating through that. Yeah. Not suffocating in that fear. I lost both my parents too young, like my mom one time ago now. But- Oh, I'm sorry. And thank you.

But you do start to, I do start to catastrophize. You like plan, like you do some emotional training. I'll be like, okay, if this bad thing happens, okay, I'll still be okay. It's not good. And you just have a kid and raise a kid anyway, despite this huge risk that your person walking out, that something is going to harm them. Something will, because kids lead their own lives Like it might not be some horrible thing, but you know, in different gradations, the kids will be hurt, heartbroken, all that, that scale of pain that your kid can endure. It's yeah, it's hard. They can do it. Even the most sensitive of us. But I will say, you know, the other way to configure

it is like, like if you're catastrophizing and you're like, oh God, like, you know, the other way to configure it is like if you're catastrophizing and you're like, oh, God, like, you know, my teen child is going on their first co-ed ski trip or something and like everything about that is scary. Co-ed and skiing and like snow and, you know, ice. Sports in general. Why would we do them? I don't get it. There's going to be a car that has to get you there. Totally. Like they're going to eat solid foods.

Not everything is liquid. What if something gets lodged? You know, a million things. But bears, whatever. But it's like you can take this thing that's like, please make nothing happen. Please make nothing happen. And you can weirdly turn it inside out and it expands into infinity with this one phrase where you're just like, I really wish everyone well. Like I really hope everybody is okay. I really, really wish everyone well. Like, I really hope everybody is okay.

I really, really wish everyone well. I know it's, like, so hard to do, especially with the people that you don't, that you're, like, you're ruining our world. You're ruining the environment. You're bad. You're bad. You're hurting people. But you can imagine your well wishes as, like far off umbrella over the sky, like in the sky directly over them rather than your arms around them. Like you can just, you can put it there in outer space should they ever reach for it.

It feels better for me that way. That's beautiful. You know what I mean? Than to just be like, bad, bad, bad. Danger, danger, danger. It's just it all. You hold it all under the water in the dark. Wow. Do you know what I mean? Or am I just like have ADHD and this is like I am in a cult of one?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, maybe all those things too. I mean, I have ADHD, but I'm not in a cult. No, I think that's beautiful. After the break, we return for the final round with Jenny Slate. It can also make me be like a terminal optimist in the worst way, like almost a fool. Right after this. Welcome back to Wildcard. Okay, we are not done.

Good. Thank God. This is round three. It's about beliefs. And this We are not done. Good. Thank God. This is round three. It's about beliefs. And this is our final round. So pick a card, one through three. One again. I like the ones.

Oh, I'm so glad this one came up. Is there anything in your life that has felt predestined? I'm not sure. I don't really connect to the concept of destiny. I mean, and because I met my husband through, like he really, I mean, I met him through friends. He's really a random person. Sometimes I get scared and I say to him, like, what if we hadn't met each other? What are the chances? And he always goes a hundred percent. And I say to him, like, what if we hadn't met each other? What are the chances? And he always goes, 100%. And I like that. And I don't know about the, like, soulmate thing, but I know, and it sounds call destiny, but that it doesn't, it's like a point. It's like a point on the globe, let's say. Like, it's like a point in your life

cycle, a fixed point, but it doesn't mean that you'll get there. Like, you still have to do, you have to still do things to get there. It's an option. It's not the option, but it's probably the, it's the best one that you could get to, but it doesn't mean you'll get there. But I guess, no, I've never felt that anything was predestined. like there's kind of a meteor shower and good fortune falls into my life like that. But that doesn't feel like, it just feels like it's random. Yeah. But have you always been good about appreciating the meteor shower, or has that come later in life for you? I think I actually have been, and I think that's because my mother, who I love dearly, will not be surprised to hear me say that I think sometimes her vernacular can be rather negative.

If you ask her to tell a story, it often sounds like as if it were cloudy in the sky. Like it's just like with this sort of tinge of dread and negativity and it's like it's kind of drama. It's drama. But I think like my response to that has been to be like, no, no, sunshine, no. And it can also make me be like a terminal optimist in the worst way, like almost a fool. But I think I've always truly been keeping that kind of lookout. It's not a Pollyanna-ish thing. It's looking for light in the dark. That's what it is. Jenny Slate, you get an A-plus on this game.

You win! I love getting good grades, honestly. I know, I could see that about you. I hated school, but I love grades. I promised you a prize. What is it? So the prize is a trip in our memory time machine. Cool.

To revisit a moment from your life. A moment you would not change anything about. You just would like, you just want to hang out there a little more. I'll tell you the first thing in my head. Is my grandmother's really ugly couch in Quincy, Massachusetts. And she had these side tables, you know, one that nestles under the other. And she would have those paper towels like that are so soft and thick, you know, like not the environmentally good ones that we use now.

The other ones. That are like, these are paper, never forget. But like the ones that are like, this is basically a washcloth. My grandmother, Rochelle, being at her house in Quincy, Massachusetts, and she would make us a sandwich of, and again, this doesn't age well, it was the 80s, Wonder Bread and margarine. You do not need teeth to eat it. And she would put each of the side tables in front of us, and we would watch Nickelodeon. And we didn't have cable at our house. And it just was like, it was just so sad, honestly.

I miss my grandmother so much, but sorry. But just deeply peaceful, and the first feeling of unconditional love is from my grandmother Rochelle she was so weird and um strange and really really traumatized by the holocaust and um she never let any of that spike us you know like we were aware that she was deep inside of something. My sisters and I think it was like, oh, Nana is, she goes into something. She's not really like other adults. She's trustworthy. She'll drive the car.

She can really, gave really great baths, you know, really good food. But she's living in two different places and she surfaces to be with us. And I just remember sitting there with her in all her complexity and having this soft sandwich that we would never be allowed to have at home. No crusts. You know, watching Nickelodeon people get like the gloop on them, like the slime. And just being like, I mean, I wouldn't have said this as a kid but like i fucking love this like i want this forever i i cannot believe that i don't have that anymore and i just love it i just love it it feels so good to think about it it feels good to have been able to visit that with you. That's such a lovely memory. That's a beautiful memory.

Jenny Slate, actress, writer, comedian, accomplished human being. Her most recent special is called Seasoned Professional. It's streaming now on Prime Video, and it is so worth your time. And this has been the best time. Jenny Slate, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. So that's it for today's episode. But if you wanted a little bit more, we've got it.

We're going to be doing regular bonus episodes where we will go behind the scenes and tell you more about the making of Wildcard. And we're also going to be asking a few more questions with our guests, but these things are going to be just for our wild card plus supporters. There's an incentive for you. Wild card plus is a way to support our work here in public radio. And you get perks like sponsor free listening and bonus episodes. So please check it out. I think you're going to dig it. You can go to plus.npr.org slash wildcard. Today's episode was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard

with help from Lauren Gonzalez and Brent Bachman. Wildcard's executive producer is Beth Donovan. It was fact-checked by Sarah Knight. Mastering by Gilly Moon. Our theme music is by Romteen Arablue. And in case you want to reach out to us, our and be back with more next week. See you then.