Consider This from NPR - Will Justice For George Floyd Lead To Lasting Change?

Episode Date: April 21, 2021

As crowds gathered Tuesday evening after former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was found guilty of murder in the death of George Floyd, two themes emerged. Many expressed joy and relief for the verdict delivered by the 12-person jury. But they also said the work isn't over, and the national debate over police violence and accountability can't end with a single criminal trial.That message was also shared by the White House and Vice President Harris. On Wednesday, Attorney General Merrick Garland announced the Justice Department is opening an investigation into possible patterns of discrimination and excessive force within the Minneapolis Police Department. And lawmakers in Congress are renewing a push for a police reform act that bears George Floyd's name. For the last eleven months, one of the loudest voices demanding justice for George Floyd — insisting that the country and the world not forget him — has been his brother, Philonise Floyd. Philonise and Benjamin Crump, the Floyd family attorney, share what lasting change will look like to them now that a verdict has been delivered.In participating regions, you'll also hear from local journalists about what's happening in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University performs breakthrough research every year, making discoveries that improve human health, combat climate change, and move society forward. More at iu.edu slash forward. Prosecutor Steve Schlescher was really specific in his closing arguments in the murder trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin over the death of George Floyd. To be very clear, this case, this case is called the state of Minnesota versus Derek Chauvin. This case is not called the state of Minnesota versus the police. It is not. Policing is a noble profession and it is a profession. The message

to jurors, whatever your feelings about police, you're here in court to decide about a particular person and a particular crime. Now, those jurors returned an uncommon verdict in trials over police killings, guilty. But if you did see it as the state of Minnesota versus the police, there is a different takeaway. That there are limits to what a single criminal trial can accomplish when it comes to the national debate over police violence and accountability. And you can hear it in the measured response of 19-year-old Ebony Moore, who joined the crowd at George Floyd Square. I am overjoyed with this verdict, and I think that the jurors did what they were supposed to do, and they did the duty as they should, but we do still have a long way to go, for sure.

At Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C., same sentiment, this time from 19-year-old Joseph Rivago. I think holding them accountable is the first step, but making the laws and changing a lot of the policing system that we currently have in order for these killings to never happen is really the change. And at the White House. This verdict brings us a step closer, and the fact is we still have work to do. We still must reform the system. Former prosecutor and Vice President Kamala Harris. Harris and President Biden are now calling on senators

to pass the police reform bill named after George Floyd. They say the end of the trial is not the end of the problem. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. Those are George Floyd's last words. We can't let those words die with him. Consider this, the verdict is in, but lasting change takes more than a 12-person jury. What's next for the Biden administration and what George Floyd's brother tells us real change might look like? From NPR, I'm Adi Kornish. It's Wednesday, April 21st. Support for Consider This and the following message come from The Jab, a new podcast from The Economist.

How well will COVID-19 vaccines work and what do they mean for life going forward? This has been a production of the Jab. supply chain that takes vaccines from the lab to the people who need it. Subscribe and listen to The Jab for free today on Apple Podcasts, Acast, or your podcast app. In stressful times, you want to spend your time checking out not just what's best, but what's best for you. We know you care about what you watch, what you read, and what you listen to. NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast is with you five days a week to make sure that time is well spent. Listen now to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR. For a time, it seemed like the Justice Department would really be going after police departments, sniffing out more than the so-called bad apples. Think back to 2014. Police officer Darren Wilson never faced charges in the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.

A grand jury declined to indict him. The next year, DOJ investigators issued the Ferguson Report, in which, among other things, they revealed racist emails swapped between officers and data showing how the Ferguson PD essentially used arrest warrants against mostly Black residents to generate cash for the city. But by 2017, that kind of investigation seemed very unlikely to happen again. Somehow, someway, we've undermined the respect for our police. After President Trump took office and named Jeff Sessions attorney general, Sessions said he'd be dialing back these so-called pattern and practice investigations. But we need, so far as we can, in my view, help police departments

get better, not diminish their effectiveness. And I'm afraid we've done some of that. So we're going to try to pull back on this. And I don't think it's wrong or mean or insensitive to civil rights or human rights. The DOJ did just one of those probes the entire four years under Trump, compared to some two dozen during the Obama years. Good morning. With the return of Joe Biden to the White House, the pendulum is about to swing again. Today, I am announcing that the Justice Department has opened a civil investigation to determine whether the Minneapolis Police Department engages in a pattern or practice

of unconstitutional or unlawful policing. That's Biden's Attorney General Merrick Garland speaking the morning after the Chauvin verdict. Another sign Garland is switching gears. Last week, he rescinded a memo from Sessions that tied the department's hands when it comes to using court orders to enforce reforms on departments accused of abuses. That means in the future, the DOJ could be more aggressive in enforcing reforms on local police departments. For the last 11 months, one of the loudest voices demanding justice for George Floyd, one of the voices insisting that the country and the world not forget him, has been his brother, Philonise Floyd. And we wanted to get his view on what

this verdict means and what enduring justice would look like to him. Philonise Floyd, along with the Floyd family attorney, Ben Crump, spoke about that with my colleague Ari Shapiro. Thank you both for being here. Thank you both for being here. Thank you. Mr. Floyd, if I could start with you. One day after the verdict, the immediacy has worn off. How are you feeling right now? I'm still on cloud nine. This is something that you can't take away from people, period, people of color. The things that's going on in this world right now, everybody is extremely happy because this is the land of the free. And of course, people didn't feel that we were free until everybody's seen justice for George, because justice for George

means freedom for all right now. Well, many people are saying true justice would be having him with us. And yet this guilty verdict is still some measure of comfort. I mean, how do you balance those two feelings? Yeah, because, you know, the officers there have been held accountable. But I think about my brother every day, and I wish I could hug him. But I know that I'll never be able to see him again. And it's going to be a long journey. And I have to push forth because I don't want it to be anymore George Floyd. It seemed like this is the never-ending cycle. We're in the court of law and Dante Wright is murdered 10 miles away in Minneapolis.

It's horrifying just to understand that people are killing other human beings, and I hope not because of the shade of their skin. And so to speak to that sense of a never-ending cycle, Mr. Crump, you represent families of Black people who were killed by police, including some who have not seen justice, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, and others. Why do you think the verdict went in your favor this time, that this time there was some measure of justice? I think George Floyd's case was unique in the sense that you had Darnella, that 17-year-old high school student, capture George Floyd literally being tortured to death by Officer Derek Shober by putting his knee on his neck for nine minutes and 29

seconds where the bystanders were begging, begging, pleading with him please take your knee off his neck and they refused to do so and I think everybody who saw that video you cannot unsee that video once you

see it. It galvanized people not only across America, but all across the globe who saw that video. And I think that was very important to getting the guilty verdict. And so in light of that, is this case an outlier? Is it the exception or is it the beginning of something new? We are praying that it is a new precedent that will be set to be able to have all Americans be included when we say with liberty and justice fall. And so we pray that those marginalized minorities, especially Black people in America, will be able to look at the fact that you have Daunte Wright, they are filing charges quicker than we ever seen them. Andre Hill, Columbus, Ohio, filing charges quicker

than they ever seen them. Ahmaud Arbery, filing charges. Quiggan, they haven't seen them. Ahmaud Arbery, filing charges. So we hope there's a new precedent. Now, whether they will be convicted or not remains to be seen. You're saying there's a new precedent for filing charges. But as you point out, these killings just don't stop. Just yesterday, a teenage girl in Columbus, Ohio, was killed by a police officer. How do you reconcile the measure of justice that you have seen in George Floyd's case with the fact that these killings continue? Well, I think you look at each case individually on the merits because you want to get to transparency and accountability because that equals justice and trust in some regards. And so I think we got to be able to pass

the George Floyd Justice and Policing Accountability Act because we have to change this culture and behavior of police where they shoot first and ask questions later when it's Black people. Are you hearing from your other clients today who maybe feel differently in light of yesterday's verdict? All the clients have been very congratulatory to George Floyd's family. And they are very happy and proud that there was justice, achieved some measure of justice, because as Philonise often says,

justice for George Floyd is an opportunity for freedom for all. And they want to believe that in Breonna Taylor's case, that the Department of Justice is going to open up an investigation and that will give her family some measure of justice. Pamela Turner, they have an upcoming criminal trial that the Floyd family is going to attend. And so May 13th, the two-year anniversary of Pam Turner, we're going to have a march for Black women in Baytown, Texas. And so I think a rising tide raises all ships. The fact that George Floyd got the historic guilty verdict is inspiring people in all of these tragedies. Mr. Floyd, could you speak to this? There's this large and growing community of families of people who have experienced tragedy, who've died at the hands

of police, and you are the rare member of that group who has seen a guilty verdict. It's a lot of pain that I'm going through, the same pain that they went through. Agony. Some people never even get a chance in court. But through me, I'm going to speak up for them because the times that I have seen people get out and they never get justice, like Pamela Turner, Eric Garner, Amar, there's so many people that we need to help. But I'm happy that Merrick Garland, the attorney general, yeah, he's going to look into what Minneapolis has going on because there's too many people that are past it for nothing. Nobody wants to be a part of this fraternity.

And if we can push the George Floyd Police Act to help end disqualified immunity, to make these officers human, they are the law, but they are not above the law. I know that your brother's death has changed your path in life. Can you talk about where that path leads for you now? That path leads to helping others, counseling others. Like I said once before, it seems like this is another end of the cycle. And I have started the Philonise and Keta Floyd Institution for Social Change. We're turning our pain into purpose. We need to help these young people who are the next generation. I have so many different clauses on it, meaning like from youth enrichment, human trafficking. It's a lot of things, mental illnesses. We're going to speak up on a lot of things. So I didn't even know that I

had a platform, but knowing that I have one from other individuals, I will use it to make this world a better place to live in. Thelonious, the brother of George Floyd, and Benjamin Crump, the Floyd family attorney, speaking with Ari Shapiro. You're listening to Consider This from NPR. I'm Adi Cornish.