Consider This from NPR - Will Trump's next term make him richer?

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

Just before Donald Trump took office the first time, he held a press conference, announcing that he would turn over control of his business empire to his sons. He said he wanted to address concerns about conflicts of interest even though he maintained he didn't really have to. Saying, "I could actually run my business. I could actually run my business and run government at the same time. I don't like the way that looks, but I would be able to do that if I wanted to."Trump's second term may put that theory to the test. The former and future president hasn't yet announced any plan to wall himself off from his businesses while in office, and Trump's businesses like his many hotels and resorts could benefit substantially from his actions as President.For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

President-elect Donald Trump won his first term by campaigning as a businessman, not a politician. When he got into office, he never really stopped being Trump the businessman. Even though he gave up direct control of his companies, he regularly talked up his properties as president. In 2019, the White House announced that it would host the G7 meeting of world leaders at Trump's resort in Doral, Florida, a decision he first teased at a press conference with then-German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Right next to the airport, right there, meaning a few minutes away, it's a great place.

It's got tremendous acreage. This was set to be a massive gathering with lots of foreign money flowing into a business owned by the president. Later that day, a reporter asked Trump if he was concerned about the ethics of the choice. The G7 never did take place at Trump's Doral Resort, but Trump's other properties frequently hosted the president

and his Secret Service detail at taxpayer expense. As he prepares for a second term in the White House, Trump's business interests have expanded beyond hotels and resorts. He has a multi-billion dollar stake in the media company that runs Truth Social, which he says he has no intention of selling. No, I'm not selling.

No, I love it. I mean, I use it as a method of getting out my word. And after boosting the cryptocurrency industry during his campaign. This afternoon, I'm getting out my word. And after boosting the cryptocurrency industry during his campaign. This afternoon I'm laying out my plan to ensure that the United States will be the crypto capital of the planet and the bitcoin superpower of the world.

And we'll get it done. He unveiled a crypto company of his own this fall. Consider this, Trump's businesses could benefit substantially from his actions as president. And this time around, he has announced no plan to address potential conflicts of interest. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro. The Indicator is a podcast where daily economic news is about what matters to you. Workers have been feeling the sting of inflation. So as a new administration promises action on the cost of living, taxes, and home prices,

the S&P 500 biggest post-election day spike ever. Follow all the big changes and what they mean for you. Make America affordable again. Listen to The Indicator, the daily economics podcast from NPR. Just before Donald Trump took office the first time, he held a press conference announcing that he would turn over control of his business empire to his sons. He said he wanted to address concerns about conflicts of interest, even though he maintained he didn't really have to.

So I could actually run my business. I could actually run my business and run government at the same time. I don't like the way that looks, but I would be able to do that if I wanted to. His second term may put that theory to the test. Trump has not yet announced any plan to wall himself off from his businesses while in office. Noah Bookbinder is president of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a group that sued Trump over his business interests in his first term. Welcome.

Good to be here. So to go back to that 2017 press conference, Trump announced he was transferring the Trump organization's businesses to a trust and turning over what he called complete and total control. What I'm going to be doing is my two sons who are right here, Don and Eric, are going to be running the company. He also adopted an ethics plan to stop new international deals and said he would donate any profits the Trump businesses made from foreign governments to the US Treasury. You sued him anyway. Why? Well those efforts were never really serious attempts to avoid conflicts of interest. Donald Trump

maintained effective ownership interest of all of his companies so when they made money he made money. He knew what those interests were. So he knew that he would make money if those companies profited. There was never really an effort to separate himself. Beyond that, the Constitution actually says that no one who is a federal government official

can receive things of value from foreign governments unless Congress authorizes it. It also says that the president can't get paid by the federal government or state governments beyond his or her salary. So we felt it was really important to vindicate the Constitution or at least try the best we could to do that, both because you shouldn't be able to violate the Constitution, but also because we want the president making decisions based on what's in the interest of the American people, not what makes him money. The case that you brought was eventually declared moot by the Supreme Court because by that point Trump had left the White House.

Since then, his businesses have evolved a lot. What concern does the present-day portfolio present? We think there's even more possibility for conflicts of interest now. You still have the possibility for the kinds of things that we saw in the first Trump administration where foreign governments or companies or industries stayed at rooms in his hotel, held events at his resorts,

but now you have other types of businesses. You have this giant social media company, Trump Media, which is the parent company for Truth Social. And if, whether it's a foreign government or a company or a wealthy investor wants to essentially give money to Donald Trump, it can buy a whole lot of stock in this publicly traded company. And when somebody buys a lot of stock, it often drives the stock value up. That is the

primary source of Donald Trump's wealth at this point. So if you move that value up, you're essentially putting money in his pocket. So just to nail this down, the scenario is I want to get in with President Trump, I buy $10 million worth of truth social stock, and then I sidle up to him at a party of Mar-a-Lago and say, hey, your stock price increased because I dumped a bunch of money into it. Is that what you're concerned about? Precisely. And Donald Trump, the first time around, made clear he was perfectly fine with companies or people or countries showing their respect

for him by bringing business his way. And now the scale potentially got a whole lot bigger. He also has this cryptocurrency business, World Liberty Financial. How does that concern you from a conflict of interest perspective? There are two ways. And one is that we don't really know what this business is going to be. And there certainly could be ways for people to bring money to him through that business. The second way is that cryptocurrency is largely unregulated at this point.

And it's going to be the job of the federal government to determine how it should be regulated going forward. And if Donald Trump is an owner, is somebody who has a stake in that industry, and his administration is deciding how that industry should be regulated, there's really a risk that rather than making those regulatory decisions based on protecting American people, whether they're investors

or otherwise affected, that he could be making decisions based on what's going to make his company money and therefore what's going to make him and his family money. We've described how he responded to these concerns last time. How has he responded this time? As of now, we've heard nothing. Donald Trump has not indicated that he is planning to divest his businesses. There was a story in the fall where Eric Trump essentially said, we tried so hard to be ethical last time and nobody gave us credit for that. He didn't say what that means, but the implication

may be we're not even going to try this time. Matthew Feeney Donald Trump and his spokespeople have called your organization, CREW, a radical left-wing activist group. They argue that he actually lost money as president compared to what he could have earned if he had hung on to all of his business interests and not gone to the White House. What do you say to that? Well, I'd say first of all that we're an organization that has gone after Democrats and Republicans

when they have run afoul of ethics rules of the laws of this country But beyond that The key here is to have a country that is run in the interest of the american people and donald trump again and again through his first term as president Uh showed that he was willing to use the presidency to benefit his businesses, that he was willing to run roughshod over traditions, rules, laws, even the constitution. We're always going to call that out.

During Trump's first term, the head of the Office of Government Ethics resigned in protest to call that out. Matthew Feeney-S mechanism? Is there any check on the president in this area? Donald Trump has been masterful in evading accountability. It's really one of his kind of superpowers. He runs out the clock, he finds places where there are traditions that actually aren't backed up in law, or he finds laws that are difficult to enforce. That doesn't mean that pushing back and trying to hold him accountable Never works in in Donald Trump's first administration for instance the g7 We and others pushed back very hard and there was a firestorm and he backed out and that didn't happen And you know there were instances like that I think there is a real concern

that as often as he was able to evade accountability the first time around, that there are fewer checks on his power now. There's a Congress that seems very pliant to Donald Trump's wishes. There is a Supreme Court that seems more and more to be willing to interpret the law in a way that is favorable to Donald Trump.

So I do think that is a cause for concern. I also do think that we have seen in the past that raising objections when they are grounded in facts and law and not just rhetoric can matter and we have to keep trying. Noah Bookbinder is president of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. Thank you. Thanks so much. This episode was produced by Connor Donovan. It was edited by Patrick Jaranwatananan and Courtney Dornig.

Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigan. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.