Consider This from NPR - With McCarthy Out What's Next for Republicans in the House?

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

It took just eight Republicans, voting with Democrats, to oust Kevin McCarthy from the House speakership. His removal may have been unprecedented, but for several years now the Republican caucus in the House of Representatives has been marked by chaos and unruliness. The job to lead them seems increasingly impossible.NPR's Ari Shapiro speaks with Rep. Matt Rosendale, of Montana, who was one of the eight Republicans to vote for McCarthy's removal. Co-host Juana Summers speaks with NPR Congressional Correspondent Deirdre Walsh about the challenge Republicans face to replace McCarthy.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at iu.edu. In his short tenure as House Speaker, Kevin McCarthy steered the U.S. economy to the edge of a fiscal cliff over the debt ceiling. He backed out of a promise with Democrats on government funding. He brought the government within hours of a shutdown. But that's not why he lost his job Tuesday night. And I think that's what's most concerning of all, is that they did this out of, you know, out of retribution for him going ahead and funding the U.S. government.

That's Republican strategist Ron Bonjean. And the group of Republicans that have voted alongside the Democrats to oust him, they don't have a plan moving forward. There isn't a plan. That vote came after Florida Republican Matt Gaetz filed a motion to vacate the speaker after McCarthy agreed to a short-term stopgap bill with Democrats to keep the government open. Now McCarthy is gone. The first House speaker in U.S. history voted out of the post. But the politics that made his job all but impossible, they're still there. Specifically, the eight Republican representatives with a nihilistic streak, as another Republican strategist, Liam Donovan, put it. The ones who voted McCarthy out. It's a question, how do you get around this determined rump who have just completely

contorted incentives, are looking for attention, are looking to raise money in their own right. This dynamic did not come out of nowhere. A decade ago, there was already a group of Republicans in the House willing to push the government to the brink of default to get what they wanted. They made then-Speaker John Boehner's job so hard that he sang Zippity-Doo-Dah as he announced his resignation. My, oh my, what a wonderful day. I used to sing that on my way to work in the morning.

Boehner later called those Republicans legislative terrorists, anarchists, and a word we will not say on a family podcast. His successor, Paul Ryan, a conservative ideological purist, was dogged by the same group and an unpredictable President Trump, and he retired just over three years later. I said earlier that I didn't want this job at first, and most of you know this. I really actually didn't. Brendan Buck worked for both Ryan and Boehner. Buck says whoever takes the job next is going to have all the same problems McCarthy had and a whole bunch of work to do. We just averted a government shutdown. We've got 40

something days to do it again. And now we have lost functionally two weeks. And that's where this is really broken down. The House has had trouble doing even the basic things. Consider this. A tiny handful of Republicans have made being Speaker of the House an impossible job. Now they have to figure out how to fill it. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Wednesday, October 4th. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. It's Wednesday, October 4th. This message comes from Indiana University. Indiana University is committed to moving the world forward, working to tackle some of society's biggest challenges. IU makes bold investments in the future of bioscience and cybersecurity, cultivates visionary work in the arts and humanities,

and prepares students to become global citizens by teaching more languages than any other university in the country. Indiana University. Nine campuses, one purpose. Creating tomorrow, today. More at IU.edu. On the TED Radio Hour, clinical psychologists John and Julie Gottman are marriage experts. And after studying thousands of couples, they have found... Couples who were successful had a really different way of talking to one another

when there was a disagreement or a conflict. How to be brave in our relationships. That's on the TED Radio Hour podcast from NPR. It's Consider This from NPR. Ultimately, eight Republicans voted with Democrats to oust Kevin McCarthy from his House speaker position. One of those eight was Matt Rosendale, a GOP member of Congress from Montana. He spoke with our co-host Ari Shapiro. To start with the simplest question, why did you vote to remove a speaker of your own party? Well, the fireable offense wasn't working with Democrats, and I would also refuse to accept the premise that we're plunged into chaos without a speaker.

Well, let's start with the fireball offense. What was it? What was the fireball offense was the desire and the actions of the speaker over the last nine months as he continued to violate the trust and confidence of the conference. We started off after he was elected speaker in January with a group of individuals that was working extremely hard to pass the most conservative agenda that we possibly could. And we saw that in the form of H.R. 1, the domestic energy legislation. We saw that in H. Republicans in Congress, when any handful of them can blow things up, can anyone lead this caucus going forward? Sure. And we saw that coming together and accomplishment of work. The only place that we didn't see that, Ari, was when it came to the big financial fiscal issues. And instead of trying

to compromise with Democrats, what we saw was Speaker McCarthy go and allow the Democrat Party to dictate the terms of the legislation that was going to be passed. Well, I know he would characterize that differently, but here's how Republican strategist Liam Donovan, also a member of your party, described the situation today on NPR's Morning Edition. We always knew that there was going to be this empowered rump that had a nihilistic streak. And if joined by all Democrats, this was always going to be the case. Congressman Rosendale, that is a member of your party referring to you as an empowered rump with a nihilistic streak. What do you say to that? Again, if I could complete my sentence, what we saw was a lot of successes until such time that Leader McCarthy started dealing with the large fiscal issues that

we must address, and he violated the trust and confidence of the conference. Anytime that you allow the conference to get to the deadline of the debt ceiling, that was engineered by Kevin McCarthy. So without getting too deep into the deadlines, the dates, and the details, you said Kevin McCarthy violated the trust and confidence of the conference, the Republican Party in the House, 210 members of the Republican Party in the House apparently still have trust and confidence in him. They voted to keep him in the role. Eight Republicans in the House joined with all the Democrats to effectively fire him. How does that reflect his losing the trust and confidence of your party? Didn't he just lose the trust and confidence of eight members of your party? Didn't he just lose the trust and confidence of eight members of your party?

No, I don't accept that premise either, Ari. Once you saw us before midnight last night, after the king was removed from the throne, five people have already raised their hands and said that they wanted to be the speaker. And this is the exact conversation that we had back in January. When someone wields that much power and they are concerned about the retribution that's going to be imposed upon them, then very few people are willing to stand up and take that challenge on. What are you hearing from some of those 210 House Republicans who voted to keep McCarthy in the role? I literally started hearing from them last week that they were glad that this process was taking place because they knew that we could not continue down this path of fiscal ruin. Republican Matt Rosendale of Montana speaking there with our co-host Ari Shapiro.

But what does the path forward look like for Republicans as they search for a new speaker? And here's Deirdre Walsh sat down with my co-host, Juana Summers, to discuss. Deirdre, I know you have been staying busy. Tell us, what can actually happen in the House if there is no speaker? Not very much. I mean, the House is essentially paralyzed. And nobody seems to know, at least in the short term, how the House of Representatives can actually function. Right now, North Carolina Republican Patrick McHenry is the interim speaker. As the Speaker Pro Tem, McHenry was appointed essentially to preside over

the election of a new speaker. That's supposed to happen next week, but there's a lot of concern that it could take some time for House Republicans to sort of sort out a way forward. One of McHenry's top allies, Louisiana Congressman Garrett Graves, suggested McHenry might be in the job for weeks. The authority of the speaker pro tem of Patrick McHenry is this is untested. There is not a manual. There's not a book. This has never been done before. The plan is for House Republicans to hold a candidate forum next Tuesday to allow people to make their case why they should be elected speaker. And they plan to vote next Wednesday. Okay, and I understand that there are already two quite familiar names who are running to replace McCarthy as Speaker.

Tell us about them. Right, and both are very conservative. House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan is running. For years, Jordan has been sort of a thorn in the side of Republican leaders. He founded the House Freedom Caucus, which is a group of far-right conservatives, essentially to sort of poke at Republican leaders. But Jordan has ended up developing a very close relationship with Kevin McCarthy. He's been leading the investigations into the Biden administration and impeachment. He's also very close to former President Trump. The other candidate so far is House Majority Leader Steve Scalise. He's the current number

two in the House Republican leadership lineup. He's very well-alise. He's the current number two in the House Republican leadership lineup. He's very well liked. He's also gone through a lot personally. He was shot at a practice of House Republicans on the baseball team in 2017 and almost died. And recently, he's been treated for multiple myeloma, which is a form of blood cancer, but Scalise says he's up to the job. There's one other name, Oklahoma Republican Kevin Hearn, potentially may run. He heads up a large group of fiscal conservatives. And Deirdre, I mean, I do not have to tell you this, but there is a whole lot at stake in Congress right now, and it's the speaker who ultimately decides what bills get up for a vote in the House. Funding for Ukraine is one of those things, I understand. What might possibly happen

now? Right. I mean, Kevin McCarthy backed aid for Ukraine, but his successor may not. There's still bipartisan support in both the House and Senate to give more money for Ukraine, but there's a big split among House Republicans. Jim Jordan opposed funding in a recent vote, and he's argued it's really not a top priority. The most pressing issue on Americans' minds is not Ukraine. It is the border situation and it's crime on the streets. And everybody knows that. Senate Republicans who support Ukraine are already worried about the situation and trying to come up with a solution.

Deirdre, Congress just passed a bill to avoid a government shutdown, but temporary funding runs out quite soon, November 17th. Do you think there will be a new speaker by then? I mean, a lot of House Republicans want it to happen quickly. One House Republican I talked to said it needs to happen next week, the sooner the better. A lot of them want to avoid that really messy fight we saw play out on the floor in January, where it took four days and 15 ballots to elect McCarthy. But the new speaker does start out with this huge task of avoiding another government shutdown. And after McCarthy was tossed out for working with Democrats, there's talk about changing that rule that allowed just one member to file a resolution to remove the speaker. If

that's still in place, there's really zero incentive for any new Republican speaker to work across the aisle. NPR congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh speaking with NPR's Juana Summers. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.