Consider This from NPR - With New Counteroffensive, Ukraine Punches Back

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

Over the past week, the Ukrainian military has retaken thousands of square miles of territory from Russian troops, in a counteroffensive east of Kharkiv. Retreating Russian soldiers left behind tanks and ammunition as they fled. We'll hear the stories of Ukrainians who spent months under Russian occupation, and take a look at what the counteroffensive means for the next phase of the war. This episode also features reporting by NPR's Ashley Westerman.In participating regions, you'll also hear a local news segment to help you make sense of what's going on in your community.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Olga Panchenko spent most of the last six months hiding inside. Early in the war, Russian soldiers occupied her little village on the outskirts of Balaklia in eastern Ukraine. The shelling was constant, so she would only go outside briefly to tend to her When I went outside, I said, Lord, if you exist, let me not be killed. There was a farm nearby, she says, and Russian soldiers came and killed the animals. They ransacked people's homes for food and cleared out shelves in the stores. Lyudmila Verona lives nearby, in the center of town. It was hard because of the constant shelling. We were not ready for this. We didn't have enough food or medicine.

For months, electricity in the town was out, water wasn't running, cell service didn't work. And then, late last week, liberation. A stunning retreat by Russia overnight as Ukrainian forces claw back parts of the south and east of their country. Ukrainian officials say its forces have made big gains in their blitz. Ukrainian forces are in the midst of a massive counteroffensive in the eastern region of Arkiv. Balaklia was the first town to be liberated by the Ukrainian military in a surprise counteroffensive in the east of the country over the past week, bringing to an end half a year of brutal occupation. We were so happy. We cried. We kissed each other. That's Valentina Dashenko, another resident of the village, describing the moment when Ukrainian soldiers arrived.

It's really hard to describe with words because it was such a relief. Consider this. After more than 200 days of war, Ukraine's military is retaking territory long held by Russia. We'll examine the counteroffensive, look at what the reaction has been inside Russia, and ask what it means for the next phase of the war. From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Wednesday, September 14th. This message comes from WISE, the app for doing things in other currencies. Send, spend, or receive money internationally, and always get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com. T's and C's apply.

It's Consider This from NPR. Balaklia, that little town in eastern Ukraine, was one of dozens retaken by the Ukrainian military over this last week, across an area spanning thousands of square miles. They took back Izum, a crucial logistical hub used by the Russians. They took back suburbs around Kharkiv, the second largest city in Ukraine. They took back Vovchansk, a strategic city near the Russian border. No wonder Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was in high spirits. That is Zelensky earlier this week in a video address. From the beginning of September until today, our warriors have already liberated more than

6,000 square kilometers of the territory of Ukraine. In the east and the south, the movement of our troops continues. The swift advance may have surprised Russian forces, but its planning was months in the making. According to the New York Times and CNN, this summer, American and Ukrainian military officials played out war games to see which scenarios would make for a successful counteroffensive. The first plan? One big, broad push across the whole southern front line. But that was deemed too risky. So, a new plan, one in the south, one in the east. The southern offensive, aimed at retaking the city of Kherson,

was highly publicized. Here's Mark Milley, aimed at retaking the city of Kherson, was highly publicized. Here's Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff here in Washington, talking about it last week on NPR. Part of the skill of generalship in battle is to concentrate enough forces at the time and place of your choosing to achieve the desired effects. And that is what the Ukrainians are trying to do. But the other offensive, farther north and east, was kept quiet. Until, of course, it wasn't. Ukrainian troops are claiming some major victories this weekend as they fight to take back... Russian troops left vehicles and ammunition behind as they fled.

There were reports this week that some of the retreating soldiers left Ukraine altogether, crossing back into Russia. So how is this setback playing out inside Russia? This is Boris Nadyeshdin, a former member of Russia's parliament, speaking over the weekend on Russian state TV. It is impossible to defeat Ukraine using Russia's current strategy, he says. He points out that America and Europe are supporting Ukraine with money and weapons. Well, that kind of criticism has been rare inside Russia since the war began. But Nadezhdin is not alone. On Monday, dozens of local elected officials signed a petition demanding that Russian President Vladimir Putin resign. Last week, seven members of a municipal council in St. Petersburg called on Putin to be charged with treason over the war in Ukraine.

Now, it's unlikely that Putin will resign or be charged with treason, but this does feel like a significant moment in a war that for months had seemed to be locked in a bloody stalemate. It's a game changer. That is Hanna Hopko. She's a pro-democracy activist and former member of parliament in Ukraine. I first met her in Kiev right before the war, and we've been checking in every few months as the war grinds on. This week, she happened to be in Washington, D.C., so we invited her to our studios, and I asked whether she felt this marks a turning point in the war. Thanks to the U.S. military aid and your HIMARS. HIMARS, the weapons that take out Russian air defenses that the U.S. has been sending.

Yeah, so helping with the bravery of Ukrainian armed forces with the higher fighting spirit. So helped us to liberate villages, towns. And I do believe that the more military aid we receive, the faster we win the war and more lives of civilians we will save. But complete Ukrainian victory means restoration of full territorial integrity and sovereignty and internationally recognized border of 1991. So this is why… Taking back Crimea, taking back all of Eastern Ukraine. Every inch of Ukrainian territory should be free from Russian occupiers. So I'm hearing you say the goal, the unswerving goal here must be complete Ukrainian victory.

That a return to the way things were a year ago, two years ago, where Russia occupied Crimea, that that would not be acceptable. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 by illegal annexation of Crimea. This is how the global security architecture was broken. And Ukrainian victory means, of course, return back to Ukraine, Donbass and Crimea. But I'm asking because as I'm sure you are hearing in Washington, and I've heard on your past visits in Washington, a lot of U.S. officials are skeptical that you're going to get Russia to pull out completely at this point, that Vladimir Putin will never do that,

and that the U.S. and NATO allies say they very much want Ukraine to have a better hand when negotiations start, but that there's going to be a negotiation. First, Ukraine should defeat Russia military, then negotiation starts. Because we have to defeat totalitarianism in 21st century. It's key. When I last saw you over the summer, you were critical of the US and of the West more broadly for not doing more to help Ukraine faster. You said, look, we're very grateful for everything that you have done,

military aid, humanitarian aid, but it is not enough. Where are you now? So the more and the faster we receive additional weapons, the sooner the war ends with our victory. And we are here to talk to people in Congress, and we really admire bipartisan support, which is really important. So I think Ukraine's victory is in the interest of the U.S. national security. It's in the interest of democracy, because defeating Russian totalitarianism, we send a clear signal

to China, we are the authoritarian regimes. And I think the long-term war scenario could be considered by authoritarian regimes as a window of opportunity to mobilize all their forces and to use the price hike and all this energy blackmail and nuclear terror as to create this sphere of fear among Western nations. And we, with a faster victory, we could avoid all the negative consequences of war. When you and I spoke over the summer, you told me that you were losing not one, not three, five friends a day killed in the war, that every time you opened WhatsApp or opened Facebook, it was somebody else you knew who was gone. Is that still happening? Yes. So this is another reason why we are asking about more weapons. It's so painful to see stories and funerals.

And when best of the best, the brightest people of my country, of our nation, passing away by defending Ukraine's freedom. And I'm sure and I'm full of optimism that people there, with their empathy to Ukraine, with their support, so we will conduct public awareness campaign to explain why it's really important

to continue supporting Ukraine in this Russian genocidal war against us and to win together and not to allow devastation moving beyond our borders and actually to prevent a new war. The guinea pig. A lot of people listening know and think of you as the guinea pig mom. A title that you have added this year. You just bought your daughter a guinea pig when Russia invaded. And you were all worried about having to evacuate with the guinea pig, which you have done.

What is the update? Where's the guinea pig? Where's your daughter? What's happening? We evacuated to my husband's parents. They were very happy. I was happy because we also, when we evacuated a dog,

it seems like we will have zoo. This is a puppy that you've added. The puppy, yes. So we're still divided. So my daughter is with my parents. My husband is alone. My home is everywhere when I can't help my country to win. So I'm traveling a lot and already visited Czech Republic because of their presidency in the EU.

Then I went to Georgia, Tbilisi. Now I'm in Washington. Then I'm planning to visit Hungary, Canada. I think this is important for people to hear because we keep, we are hearing from our reporters in Ukraine that while war is, of course, brutal and ongoing in some parts of Ukraine, that life in the capital in Kyiv has in many ways returned to normal. I'm using air quotes around normal, but something closer to normal.

For your family, very much not. Your husband, your daughter, you, the pets, you're all in different places. This is still, your life is completely upended. Yeah, but compared to people who lost their loved one, so they are suffering, of course, because for last seven months, I've seen my daughter only seven days. But I understand that contribution I could do for my country to win faster

is even more important than now being together with my family. And because it's also part of our victory when my daughter and her husband important that now being together with my family. And because it's also part of our victory when my daughter and her husband in the future in 20, 30 years period of time from now will never face aggressive behavior from our neighbor. So and Russia will never attack any sovereign independent states in the future. That was Hanna Hopko, pro-democracy activist and former member of Ukraine's parliament.

It's Consider This. From NPR, I'm Mary-Louise Kelly.