Consider This from NPR - Zelenskyy's Pitch for More American Dollars

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy spent Tuesday in Washington pressing American lawmakers to approve a new funding package for his country's war with Russia.Zelenskyy's lobbying effort comes as the current U.S. aid package is rapidly dwindling, and the fight between Ukraine and Russia has all but stalled.NPR's Mary Louise Kelly talks to NPR Pentagon Correspondent Tom Bowman about the state of the war, what new funding would be used for, and what the country can – and can't – do without more money.Email us at [e-mail] more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

It's been almost a year since Vladimir Zelensky's first trip to Washington after Russia's invasion of Ukraine. A triumphant, powerful-seeming Ukrainian president received standing ovation after standing ovation as he laid out the stakes for Ukraine and the world. This battle is not only for the territory, for this or another part of Europe. The battle is not only for life, freedom and security of Ukrainians or any other nation which Russia attempts to conquer. This struggle will define in what world our children and grandchildren will live, and then their children and grandchildren. Back then, optimism from Zelensky and Ukrainians and Americans ran relatively high. Our two nations are allies in this battle. And next year will be a turning point. I know it. The point when Ukrainian courage and American resolve must guarantee the future of our common freedom. The freedom of people who stand for their values. Washington. That intervening year has seen Ukraine launch a much-anticipated counteroffensive

against Russian forces occupying its territory. Optimism from Ukrainians, along with trust in their leader, is shrinking. Support from the U.S. has also shrunk, with many members of Congress skeptical about continuing to provide aid to Ukraine. What is the objective? What is the endgame in Ukraine? How are we going to have proper oversight over the funds, the precious treasure of American taxpayers? That is new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. The fact that support has eroded and so quickly is mystifying to Americans who continue to stand staunchly with Ukraine.

Frankly, I think it's stunning that we've gotten to this point in the first place. That's President Biden earlier this month trying to drum up support for tens of billions more U.S. aid for Ukraine. While Congress, Republicans and Congress are willing to give Putin the greatest gift he could hope for and abandon our global leadership, not just Ukraine, but beyond that. And this is why Zelensky has made this Hail Mary trip to Washington. It is a last-ditch effort to get more weapons and more money. But many Republicans aren't having it, and they have tied the longstanding fights over the U.S. southern border to the aid for Ukraine.

Many Republican lawmakers say they won't vote on an aid package unless it includes border policy changes. Speaker Mike Johnson made the terms of any deal clear at a recent press conference. We have to affect real policy change at the border, and that is a necessary condition to anything we do going forward. Consider this. As American funding for the war in Ukraine runs out, the war itself has stalemated. Can Ukraine hang on without American money? From NPR, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Tuesday, December 12th.

It's Consider This from NPR. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky spent the day in Washington pressing his case for more American dollars. Zelensky met with lawmakers on Capitol Hill and sat down in the Oval Office with President Biden. And I want to thank you for being here. You're going to help the cause. And I don't want you giving up hope. Thank you so much, Mr. President. Dear journalists, I'm really glad to be here at the White House today and share some very important messages. Thank you for the invitation. A carefully orchestrated show aimed at securing another multi-billion dollar aid package, aid that is critical to Ukraine's ability to keep fighting. I'm joined by NPR

Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman to talk about why Ukraine needs this money and what could happen if Ukraine doesn't get it. Hey, Tom. Hey, Mary Louise. You know, it seemed like Ukraine's ability to outmaneuver and outthink Russia for the first month, year, so on of this war. It dazzled so much of the world because it was very much a David and Goliath scenario. And now we appear to be at a different point. Where are we in this war? Well, you know, some people say it's an inflection point. I think that's probably right. Now, Ukraine has taken back about 50% of the territory lost to the Russians, obviously a plus, but has not achieved its goal of cutting off this what's so-called Russian land bridge to the south. And that would prevent Russia from supplying its troops in the south. That has not happened. So privately,

military officials are saying to me, listen, we're at a stalemate right now. And that has led to a loss of support on Capitol Hill. Tell me how this ends. What can we achieve? They've spent tens of billions of dollars helping Ukraine. So where are we at this point? And that's the word Pentagon officials are using when they talk to you privately, stalemate? Yeah, privately, they'll talk stalemate. But politically, you know, everyone's on board saying, we have to help Ukraine. We have to stop Putin. If we don't stop Putin now, he may threaten NATO countries. So that's kind of where we are politically.

How long before the assistance runs out? Well, right now, there's about $4.8 billion left in American aid to Ukraine. And the plan is to kind of dole that out, parse it out over time, maybe weeks, maybe months, until a supplemental bill can be approved, which would have roughly $47 billion for Ukraine. But again, that's not going to happen this week or next in Congress. You're clearly looking at next year for a vote. Talk one more moment about what exactly that money is buying, like the specifics of what American dollars are funding for Ukraine. Well, a lot of it is weaponry, everything from Patriot missile systems to demining equipment again,

artillery shells, tanks, cold weather gear, pretty much everything. Also paying the salaries of some Ukrainian folks, police and first responders. So pretty much everything. And some of that money is also used to support U.S. troops in Europe, some of whom are training Ukrainian forces. So it's a lot of money. It's tens of billions of dollars. So it's pretty much everything. Yeah. You mentioned cold weather gear. I will point out the obvious. It's winter. Is that contributing to the sense of urgency that President Zelensky is trying to convey on this trip to Washington? Absolutely. Not only to keep his troops warm where they are kind of hunkered down in places in the south and the eastern part of the country, but also they need defensive missiles because

Russia is going to spend the winter trying to take out energy infrastructure to freeze Ukrainian civilians. So they desperately need defensive missiles to prevent that from happening, prevent Russian missiles and drones from attacking that key infrastructure. I want to circle back to the conversations you are having with officials at the Pentagon and how they view this and what kind of conversations they are having with their counterparts in Ukraine. Well, initially, this big spring offensive we've been talking about, they want them to concentrate all their combat power pushing south to break again that land bridge to get to the Sea of Azov.

The Ukrainians didn't do that. They sent some of their troops to the east to push the Russians back. They sent some to the south. And the Americans said they weren't aggressive enough at pushing south. And the Ukrainians said, listen, we have all these minefields we have to get through. And the Americans say, well, we've given you demining equipment. You should be able to do it. But they didn't have the equipment that's really needed, that the Americans would use in a minefield like that. First, you use aircraft to attack enemy forces. Then you bring in huge numbers of tanks and mortars to push back, keep those enemy forces down so while you can clear the mines.

Ukrainians didn't have all of that. So they were kind of stuck trying to get rid of these mines to move forward. And then the Russians had all these defensive trenches, huge numbers of them, very sophisticated, that they just had a hard time getting through. Hence, we're at a kind of a stalemate. Can this war be won? Can Russia be defeated militarily in Ukraine? No. And Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you know, who retired, General Mark Milley, he said earlier this year,

neither side can win. Russia can't take the whole country over, and Ukraine can't kick out every Russian soldier. So the only way this is really going to end is if Putin decides, I've had enough, I'm pulling my troops out. No one thinks that it's possible. That was NPR Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman. It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.