Corporate Survivor with Mei Phing : Career Growth In The Corporate World - Ep113: Big 4 survival tips for auditors and accountants.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Corporate Survivor Podcast, where we talk about how to grow your career confidence, build your skills and value, increase your salary, and the many lessons we learn in the corporate world. For more career support, click on over to www.mayping.com. This is Mayping, your corporate leader turned career coach. I hope you enjoy, like and subscribe. I'm sure by now you would have already seen or heard about this very viral Instagram post by Simu Liu, who is the Marvel's blockbuster star of the movie Shang-Chi, where he talked about how he got fired from Deloitte 10 years ago.

Starting point is 00:00:44 And it was something that was so devastating for him, but guess what? He rose up from the ashes like a phoenix or something, and eventually became this huge Hollywood star that he is right now. So looking at that piece of news, as a former Big Four accountant, as a former Big Four alumni, I really wanted to weigh in on this entire story and maybe

Starting point is 00:01:07 also share with you the three reasons that can cause you to get fired from Big Four, three main skills that you need to be successful in your Big Four career, as well as three options that you can consider once you decide that, hey, you know, Big Four is no longer for me. So in this episode, I really want to share with you my very honest thoughts around this entire situation and what your future could potentially look like if you choose the Big Four path and yeah, some of the potential pitfalls to think about, to plan for, to prepare for, so you don't end up getting fired as well. So let's dive into this episode. So the first part I really want to reflect on is at the end of the day, there are always like two sides to a coin. What we heard in that long

Starting point is 00:01:53 Instagram post was exactly how Simu Liu felt when, you know, he said he felt embarrassed that, you know, he was asked to leave, he was escorted to the head partner's office and, you know, just told to pack up and move on and nobody helped him. And he hustled for 10 years to become who he is today, which is kudos to you, Simu, that's awesome. The thing that I'm really wondering about actually is on the other side of the coin. So in the Instagram post, Simu called out specifically Deloitte, which is one of the biggest global accounting firms in the world. It's basically every accounting student's dream to enter the Big Four, which is Deloitte, KPMG, EY, as well as PwC. And before we dive in, you may also wonder, hey, Mei-Ping, what qualifies you to weigh in on this situation? You're only a career coach. Well, I'm not only a career coach,

Starting point is 00:02:47 I'm actually a qualified Chartered Accountant ACCA of the UK. I'm also a fellow of the Association of Chartered Certified Accountant FCCA, as well as a Chartered Accountant of Singapore. So I have spent about three and a half years working in Big Four. Similarly to Simu's situation, undergoing probably a lot of the hardships that he felt when he was working in the Big Four as well. So, what I'm going to share with you today, it's really my personal perspective on what he could have potentially done, maybe,

Starting point is 00:03:18 that got him fired from the Big Four, what you can do to make sure that you don't get fired if you're in a fairly similar situation, and of course, some of the options that I'm going to share with you later on. So let's talk about the first part. And as somebody who has worked in the corporate world for more than 10 years at some of the biggest companies in the world, I will say that in big companies,

Starting point is 00:03:43 there is a process and there is a protocol for everything. So at this point, there are two sides of the story. We have heard Simu's side of the story. We haven't heard the other side of the story. So I'm really interested to find out from the Deloitte's office standpoint, the partner's office, the HR Office, what were the exact paperwork that documented the reason for termination? There is something like that, and it's mandatory, particularly for huge organisations such as the Big Four, it's absolutely mandatory. So now I'm actually really interested to see what's on the other side. What was Deloitte's justification? I think that is something really

Starting point is 00:04:23 interesting for us to learn about, to hear about, if it's possible to be disclosed, of course. And we can make a more objective evaluation on actually what happened. But I'll definitely share with you the three main reasons how you can get yourself fired from the Big Four. The first reason is you are not a team player. Now, Big Four is a huge organization. Even if you're working in specific departments or specific teams,

Starting point is 00:04:51 teamwork is one of the most, most, most important qualities that you can bring to the table, particularly if you are a fresh graduate or a very junior associate or junior analyst. So the ability for you to demonstrate teamwork, to be proactive, to get along with your colleagues, to make sure that you can communicate with all of them is going to be very important. If you identify as somebody who do not have teamwork or do not prioritize teamwork and you only care about your own glory, there's a very high chance that you might get

Starting point is 00:05:20 fired because if you are not focusing on teamwork, then the engagements can't go very smoothly, right? So that's the first point you need to take note of. The second thing that could get you potentially fired is lack of communication skills due to maybe a big ego. Now, I have worked with people who are very egoistic, for lack of a better word. And I know, right, Big Four is a huge organization, it's one of the best companies in the world, and it tends to attract very smart people, or at least, you know, paper smart in general. And I find that for some of these people coming into the Big Four, believing that only the paper qualification is enough to become successful. So when you go in to a huge company

Starting point is 00:06:05 such as Big Four, ignoring the fact that you need to work with other people for teamwork, you also do not focus on communication, right? Expressing yourself clearly, listening specifically to advice, listening to feedback, practicing your emotional intelligence. The combination of these three things may eventually get you fired because you are not showing, you're showing up as somebody who can continue to grow, want to connect with somebody else, right? So again, communication, connection, building relationships, something that's so, so, so important in the big four. And if you cannot demonstrate that, there's probably a high chance that you might get fired. Now, moving on to the third reason how you could

Starting point is 00:06:43 potentially get fired or terminated from the big four is you have revealed private and confidential information outside of the team, outside of the organization. This is a complete no-no and I think this is a really huge problem in the era of social media right now where it sounds so cool. Let me talk about my work. Let me bring out all these documents and show how smart I am. Yeah, bad idea. Bad idea. That move itself could actually get you fired. Even you can be performing really well at your job. But if you are found to leak out, to disclose confidential information of the big four clients, then you are in big, big, big trouble and all this positive reputation that you may have created for yourself is just going to get erased.

Starting point is 00:07:29 So those, I'd say, are the top three reasons that you could potentially find yourself getting fired from the big four. But I will caveat and say this, that working in huge organizations in the past, firing is not very common in the big four, to be honest. So if you find yourself getting fired, then that is something that you have done and you really need to understand what is the root cause to make sure that you do not repeat these mistakes again. It could come from a lack of understanding of how a big organization works. It could be an expectation versus reality on how

Starting point is 00:08:01 the corporate world works or maybe the corporate culture is not something you're familiar with whatever that reason is you need to get really clear on that to make sure that um you protect yourself in the next company to make sure that you have a more uh have a have career longevity okay now i'm not saying that's what happened to simu liu which is now a huge star and created this big viral post that everybody's talking about and ifu Liu, which is now a huge star and created this big viral post that everybody's talking about. And if you're an accountant right now, if you're a Big Four accountant right now, you might be thinking, what the heck? Am I making any of these mistakes? And what does that mean if I'm still working in the Big Four or I want to work in the Big Four?

Starting point is 00:08:39 Great question. So now we're going to get into the next part and I want to tell you the three main skills that you need to be successful in the big four. The first skill that you need is communication. You need to learn how to explain and express yourself very clearly so that the other person that you're working with can understand you. And when I say the other person, it could be your seniors, it could be your colleagues, it could be partners, it could be your clients. Because if you cannot communicate well, it's almost impossible to build any positive or strong working relationship. So communication is that foundational skill that is going to be super duper important. The second skill that you need is the mindset of continuously wanting to learn

Starting point is 00:09:24 and being adaptable. Now, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of people when they get into Big Four are highly educated. They have good education, they have good paper qualification. But paper qualification, you know, does not replace attitude. If you have really bad attitude, you believe that you're 100% right, you have a huge ego, like that is not going to gel well and that's going to be really bad. So the personality or rather the attitude that you need to always have is be open to feedback, be open to advice, be open to creating win-win relationships.

Starting point is 00:09:59 And how can you also adapt to somebody's request, just like how the other person is adapting to work with you. So meeting somebody halfway is going to be that important skill that you need to learn how to master. The third skill to make sure that you are also successful in the big four is productivity. Now, you can communicate really well, you can try to be friends with everyone, but at the end of the day, if you cannot deliver your work, like that's also not going to end up well. Because Big Four, it's a very highly dynamic environment, right? It's filled with high performance. That's why everybody wants to join the Big Four accounting firms. So once you are there, you need to make sure that you are also demonstrating that you are proactive, you are productive, you are efficient as well as effective. Now, prioritization, productivity skills,

Starting point is 00:10:46 time management, project management, self-organization, all these you can upskill, but it actually starts with the intention of recognizing that you have problems in these skills and actively working on them. These are going to be so important, honestly, not just in the big four, but if you have career ambitions, you want to rise up the career ladder, or you even want to work in any other corporate organizations, let me tell you right now that it is the same. If you don't understand the main skills that are required to be successful in a Big Four accounting firm, when you move on to another organization, it might be even more challenging. So take the time at the big four for you to practice, upskill, to improve yourself

Starting point is 00:11:33 professionally before you take on the next phase of your career. So these are skills that you can build whether you are in the big four or you're planning to get in the big four or you are planning to improve your performance in the big four, all these skills that I've just mentioned will be highly relevant as well. Now, at this particular point, you might be thinking, oh, Mei Ping, I'm actually in the big four. I've really been in the big four for some time. I feel like this is not for me. I don't think I can be an accountant forever. I don't think I can be an auditor forever. Fair point. I also went through the exact same phase. After I was a Big Four auditor for three and a half years, I thought to myself like, yeah, I don't think this is what I

Starting point is 00:12:18 want to do. So one of the most common questions I get asked from fellow accountants and fellow auditors is, what is life after the big four? What can I actually do? So now I want to share with you three options that you can consider if you are thinking of progressing your career outside of the big four. So the first one is you can choose to become more specialized. So maybe you can pursue a very specific domain. Maybe it's accounting, maybe it's finance, maybe it's taxation, maybe it's audit, whatever that is,

Starting point is 00:12:51 you can pursue a more specialized version of that. So you can go to boutique firms where you can really dive into that specific area, whichever that area that you choose. It could be another consulting firm that's not just the big four, but may give you more opportunities to actually deep dive,

Starting point is 00:13:09 to do more technical work that you enjoy. So that's first option. Second option is you can move from big four into the commercial world. So why we call it the commercial world is we always segregate consulting with the commercial world and there are multiple options. So in the commercial world, we always segregate consulting with the commercial world and there are multiple options. So in the commercial world,

Starting point is 00:13:27 you can go into familiar departments such as internal audit, you can go into the finance and accounting function, taxation, you can also go into operations, which is something quite closely related to accounting, audit and finance. But the only point I will tell you is that if you get yourself into the commercial world, you need to make sure that you have a very clear mindset of that is what you want

Starting point is 00:13:53 and that is aligned with your career goal. And the reason I say this is because the big four, however fancy that sounds, it's a bit like a bubble. And why I say it's a bubble is because, you know, if you really hate the client, you can just wait for the engagement to end and then, okay, okay bit like a bubble. And why I say it's a bubble is because, you know, if you really hate the client, you can just wait for the engagement to end and then, okay, okay, thanks, bye. But when you move into the commercial world, you know, the projects are not based on engagement.

Starting point is 00:14:15 You can't just say, oh, I just need to deal with this for the next one or two months. And then when I move on the engagement, I can just leave everything behind and start afresh. This does not work in the corporate world. When you're in the team, you're going to be there for like the next one, two, three or maybe 10 years, whatever your career goal is. So that's why the three skills that I talked about earlier will not just help you become successful in the big four, it will also help you become more successful in the commercial world as you transition into the real corporate world. So that's kind of like how everything ties in. And there's a tilt option on what you can do after leaving the big four. And it's basically whatever you want.

Starting point is 00:14:58 Now, career transition is one of those things that a lot of people are afraid of. They feel lost and they feel like they can't really do anything beyond their paper education and beyond their degree. I'm here to tell you that that is not true at all. I have transitioned across multiple different departments and functions from accounting to audit to internal controls

Starting point is 00:15:19 and I moved to risk management. I moved to AML and sanctions and later on to business portfolio management and then I moved to FinTech and sanctions, and later on to business portfolio management, and then I moved to fintech, and finally I'm a career coach right now. So career transition is absolutely possible, but you need to focus on improving your, increasing your value and upskilling as many transferable skills as possible, particularly people skills and productivity skills, because these two skills are things that you need across

Starting point is 00:15:45 any industry and of course relationship relationship building and all those things so that is what it takes at the end of the day you know you choose what is the best career path for you a career path that looks really fancy to somebody else may not be suitable for you a career path that looks like can make a lot of money may not bring you a lot of satisfaction and joy as well. So, you know, choose what's right for you and commit to it. I think the key word here I want to share really is to commit to something. If you feel like that's what you want, ask yourself, right, get career clarity, set your career interest options and direction and go all out. Set that career GPS and go all the way to make sure that

Starting point is 00:16:32 you become successful. So whether your option is to continue to climb the career ladder in the corporate world, upskill, upskill, upskill, because at every single career level, it requires a new version of you, or you find that, hey, this corporate world thing is really not for me, then great. Transition to another field, like for Simu Liu's situation, he went into entertainment, right, that's probably something that fits his calling a little bit better, fits his passions a little bit better, but never discount the fact that that is hard work for whichever path that you choose. But as long as you commit to it, if you really want it, you really want to grow

Starting point is 00:17:09 in whichever career path that you choose, there is a solution. There is a solution. It really comes down to how much do you want it and how much you can commit to that career path that you have chosen for yourself. So with that, I wish you all the best in your career, whether you are somebody who is

Starting point is 00:17:26 wanting to join the Big Four, you are currently working in the Big Four, or you are planning to leave the Big Four soon for future opportunities. I hope that you find my very honest reflections on this entire I got fired by Deloitte situation and also some perspectives from somebody who has actually worked in the big four for three and a half years and later on move on to other leadership positions in the corporate world just like I have. Something insightful that you can chew on, you can think about as you plan your career direction forward. How did Simu Liu's viral post inspire you to rethink your career? Drop me a message. Comment below. You can drop me a message on LinkedIn or even on Instagram

Starting point is 00:18:11 and let me know. I'll be really interested to find out what you think about it. So with that, I wish you all the best and I'll see you soon. Bye.

Corporate Survivor with Mei Phing : Career Growth In The Corporate World - Ep113: Big 4 survival tips for auditors and accountants.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.