Corporate Survivor with Mei Phing : Career Growth In The Corporate World - Ep137: How to overcome interview anxiety

Episode Date: May 21, 2022

✅ Get My FREE '5-Day Career Growth' Guide + Training 👉 http://www.meiphing.com ✅ Grow your career in the 9-5 corporate world with clarity, confidence and opportunities! ⚡ 👋 Welcome to the Corporate Survivor with Mei Phing — corporate career coach, ex-corporate leader who has led multimillion-dollar projects across 43 countries and creator of the ultimate career course for 9-5 professionals, The Corporate Survivor™. On this podcast, you'll learn how to grow your career in the corporate world without getting stuck with Mei Phing's 3-step framework to gain career clarity, improve work confidence and attract new job opportunities. ✅ WEBSITE ⮕ https://www.meiphing.com ✅ FREE GUIDE ⮕ https://www.thecorporatesurvivor.co/5days ✅ COURSE & COACHING ⮕ https://www.thecorporatesurvivor.co ⚡ 📌 ABOUT MEI PHING: Mei Phing Lim is a Professional Career Coach and former Corporate Leader in the financial services and consulting industries. Mei Phing went from a shy quiet introvert to leading multimillion-dollar projects with teams from over 43 countries as the Senior Director and Head of Governance at Standard Chartered, and now teaching 9-5 professionals how to navigate the corporate world and grow their careers with her career coaching course, The Corporate Survivor™. Mei Phing has been featured as a LinkedIn Top Voice 2023, sharing expert career advice in guiding young professionals to plan, navigate and grow their careers. Mei Phing is a keynote speaker on corporate culture, work performance and career growth, and sharing perspectives on what truly takes to build a strategic and successful career without getting stuck. ✅ LEARN MORE: https://www.meiphing.com

Welcome to the Corporate Survivor Podcast, where we talk about how to grow your career confidence, build your skills and value, increase your salary, and the many lessons we learn in the corporate world. For more career support, click on over to www.meiping.com. This is Mei Ping, your corporate leader turned career coach. I hope you enjoy, like and subscribe. Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to my 30-day career livestream series. And today I wanted to tackle one of the biggest and scariest nightmares if you are a job seeker out there who has been struggling to get interviews or you have been

struggling to pass interviews to progress towards the job offer stage. So one of the comments that I hear from a lot of my clients, my connections is feeling a lot of anxiety throughout the entire job search process and the peak of those anxiety is usually during the face-to-face or virtual interview process. So that is understandable. It's a good opportunity and you want to be able to maximize it. And I know that there are a lot of tips out there asking you to stay calm and prepare, breathe and all those things. And I think these tips are super duper helpful. But there is one thing I think actually is missing is more around the substance of how to actually reduce interview anxiety without just relying on what I call like

the other stuff to calm you down, but actually not tackling the root cause, if you understand what I'm saying. So if you are currently job searching, you are currently interviewing, or you have been interviewing for some time, I think you can resonate with a lot of the interview anxieties that I'm going to share today. And towards the end of it,

I also want to share with you some practical ways in which you can get rid of those anxieties and actually feel a lot more confident with the value that you will bring to the table. So the first interview anxiety is feeling like you are not ready and not prepared enough. So that creates generally a lot of anxiety because you feel like you need to do better, but you don't know how. Now, a lot of the root cause problems around feeling not ready could be maybe the way that you are preparing yourself. It's like I said, a bit more on the fluffy side. And what do I mean by the fluffy side is you are likely watching some motivational videos, you are probably just telling yourself to calm down,

which to be honest, when you're extremely stressed, it doesn't really work that way. And yeah, basically not very tangible ways of calming yourself down. The other reason, interview anxiety number two, is really caused by the fact that you feel like you are not good enough for the job. Now, this is actually part of the Job Seeker Mindset Blogs that I talk a lot about in my free training at www.growyourcorporatecareer.com. So, Job Seeker Mindset Blog is really something that I tackle right at the beginning because until you are convinced that you deserve a seat at the table, you deserve to get the interview, it's not just random luck, then that is where you can actually break through and move forward. Because even if you get the interview and you still keep telling yourself that you don't deserve it, you don't know what you're doing, and all these other problems, then I think that even before stepping into the interview session, you have already lost.

You have already lost. And therefore, it's also really, really important to recognize that you have a lot of these blocks of maybe feeling that you're not good enough, and really take action even before the interview process to maybe find examples in which you have demonstrated that you have maybe the relevant background skills and experiences. And a lot of it actually comes from your resume if you set the resume right. Then the third cause of anxiety that I also hear a lot is feeling like maybe this company may not be the right culture for me. Now, of course, being able to get along with the team members is something that's very important.

However, having that anxiety even before the interview process, that is not going to help because you haven't even had the chance to clarify if this is the right environment for you. You have not had the chance to clarify and ask questions on how the team is structured and how the working environment is like. So this is what I call premature anxiety in which you haven't even done the thing yet, but you're already feeling like it's not going to work out. So again, a lot of this actually comes back to the job seeker mindset block that I said I covered in the training as well.

Because if you feel that it's really not going to work out, then why are you interviewing? Why are you interviewing? So I'm going to share a very interesting example with you. So last week, I was actually talking to one of my clients in terms of helping her prepare for an interview. And when she came to me, she already completed one other interview that really didn't work out.

So as she was explaining that explaining that interview process to me of course right she faced a lot of the anxiety around whether she'll be a good fit and whether things will work out but the moment she went into the interview she realized that that was not the culture that she wanted and very quickly her anxiety actually turned into um i say criticism and frustration and what happened is that she ended up um debating with the interviewers and really having a very negative um thought around the way the company functions now the purpose of the interview is for you to better understand if it's a good the job is a good fit for you the

company is a good fit for you there is company is a good fit for you. There is no point going to an interview, fighting with the interviewer. You're not going to get anything out of it because you are not employed there. So your opinion actually doesn't really matter. So I think you can actually go into it a little bit more objective versus feeling anxiety. Then going in there there during the interview,

it may not be aligned to what you expect. And therefore, you end up getting angry at the interviewer, which is not really a very good strategy as well. So I think be very objective around it. And one of the things I always, always recommend if you truly want to reduce anxiety for more like a long-term situation is there is no point going online

and finding all this motivational stuff. It doesn't actually work. But what you want to do is make sure that you are actually very, very familiar with your resume. Now, that is one thing I think is very underrated. A lot of people don't really take their resume seriously. Okay, today is not a session around resume mistakes.

And I have actually covered that in episode, I think, 59 of my podcast. You can check it out on Spotify and YouTube if you want. But one of the problems I find is a lot of people, when they put their resume together, it's just a laundry list of everything. And it has like 100 bullets, if not more. 100 bullets, if not more. And most of the time, the job seeker has no idea what are in all these bullets. And of course, you're going to feel anxiety, right?

It's like you say that you're very qualified, but when you go into an interview, you don't even know half the things that you have written on your resume. Now, how is that going to help, right? Really, really think about it. What is actually driving the root cause anxiety during interviews versus somebody who is very, very well-versed with every single bullet that they have put in their resume. And of course,

we need to be very strategic around what we write as well. And that's something I actually normally cover in a resume review session, but the resume portion positions the career story correctly. Every single bullet is power punch that sells your contribution and how you are adding value. Now, this actually makes the bullets a lot easier to write and also makes it a lot easier for you to remember what you are going to say during the interview. There is no point having like I said, 100, 200 bullets in your resume that you cannot remember. And that is not going to calm down any nerves at all. So it's better to have something that is way more concise. You are very sure what you are going to say, right? You have

the career story checked. You have the examples checked. You have practiced all the key interview questions such as tell me about yourself. Where do you see yourself in five years? Why do you want this job? What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses, tell me about your biggest challenges, tell me about your biggest achievements, tell me about what you know about the company, like all these questions, these sound so simple, but a lot of people barely even prepare for this, so if you don't even prepare for this, how do you expect the anxiety levels to go down? Because you inherently know that you're not ready. No matter how many motivational rara, motivational posts that you read,

interviews, a lot of it is about positioning and practice. I repeat that. Positioning and practice. So positioning is your career story and how you're going to sell your USP, which is your unique selling point, in the best way possible, right? In terms of the structure and the angle. And then the practice part is to enable you to deliver it

in the most convincing and confident way. Two parts, right? Positioning, practice. Now, there's another two parts to interviews. I was also telling my client the other day is two parts the first part is what you say the second part is how you say it so if I were to tie it back to the positioning and practice basically the what you say is the positioning and the how you say is the practice because that's how you're going to deliver the confidence. And this was actually rolled into a point that I was telling my client around why you do not need Toastmasters to actually pass your interviews

because I actually have other clients who have won awards during Toastmasters but also struggled during the interview process and still have high anxiety because the art of interviewing, the interviewing skills and public speaking, Toastmaster skills, like not the same thing. So it's really, really important for you to recognize that during an interview, there are two parts. It's what you say and how you say it. A lot of people, when they think about or when they assess their interview performance, most of the time, they're actually assessing how they say something.

So most clients, when they come to me, and most of the time, they have already filled multiple interviews before they come to me for interview coaching. One of the things that they always tell me is, maybe I think I did well. I think I answered well, but how come I'm not progressing? Now, answering well, like I said, there are two parts, right? It's what you say, and then the other part is how you say. So when I get my clients to explain it a little bit further, I realize that they are a lot more focused on how they say something. They'll say things like, oh, I delivered my points confidently, I prepared, I was very friendly. All those sound great. But now let's talk about the actual substance and the actual substance is how you're positioning yourself and actually what you're saying because you can say the right thing

and deliver it with no confidence that's not good you can say the wrong thing but deliver it with a lot of confidence that's also not good that actually probably is worse because for a very experienced hiring manager they will know that you have no idea what you're talking about and that's actually not a very good thing also. So in order to reduce your interview anxiety, two things that you need to take note of is the first part is, like I said, what are you saying? How are you positioning yourself?

And what is your unique selling point? Why should the interviewer be interested in you? That's one part. And the other part is how you convey. Now, the how you convey is really about how much you believe in what you can offer. And whether you're presenting yourself as a team member that could potentially, for the hiring manager to visualize

that you can actually work within the team. And that is also a very important part. So if you are currently struggling during interviews right now, you are feeling a lot of anxiety, you're feeling nervous, or you have been failing multiple interviews, then I really challenge you to think about what I say today because to be honest, this is actually what I teach my clients in a paid session.

Because most of the time, a lot of job seekers actually do not see their mistakes during interviews, and that is because most people actually have, a lot of job seekers actually do not see their mistakes during interviews, and that is because most people actually have no real experience doing interviews. And I don't want to be too critical, but I do think that a lot of people who are teaching interview skills, most of them have actually never been hiring managers as well. So I just want to clarify, HR and recruiters are not hiring managers. Hiring managers actually are the people who you are going to report to once you join the company full-time. So for example, for me as a hiring manager,

likely I'm at the senior manager level or I'm a director level where after I hired the staff, the staff would likely report to me or report to somebody within my team. That is a hiring manager. You're actually joining the team. But if you are talking to a recruiter or HR, that is part of the interview process, but that person is not the hiring manager. So what HR and recruiters can help you to prepare are what are considered the more standard stuff. And obviously, you know, there's a bit of a distinction between the different types of people who will interview

you. And actually, that's something I cover a little bit more in my course and coaching but the point I want to share with you here is you should be very clear what each individual what each party actually focuses on and target your answer the same the way but regardless the foundation is that you still need to be very familiar with your resume that is really the fastest way you can get rid of interview anxiety without the nonsense rara that you see online this be very familiar with your resume. That is really the fastest way you can get rid of interview anxiety without the nonsense rah-rah that you see online. This is real, real, real confidence because you know exactly what the selling point is

and you make sure that during the interview process, you do not get distracted and you only focus on the important things that the hiring manager wants to know. Not whatever you want to say, but actually what the hiring manager wants to know that can increase your chances to get the job offer or at least to progress to the next level. So this is something that I think, and I see a lot, a lot, a lot of mistakes that a lot of job seekers make and they do not even

realize it. And most of the time, I'd say most job seekers misdiagnose and they think that their answers are a lot better than the real thing, where when I say the real thing, meaning as assessed by an actual hiring manager. So, really what I do in my coaching sessions is that I will actually tell my client, this is what the hiring manager is hearing, and these are the things that are not okay with your answer, and we need to tweak it to another way. Because you first need to know how your answer is coming across, not just assuming that everything's okay and then you get a surprise when you don't get the call

back or you're unable to progress or you're unable to get the job offer, which obviously is going to be a problem. So that is a bit about interview anxieties. As you all know, I have been working with a lot of job seekers recently on the job search process. And the thing that actually pops up to me a lot is really the interview portion. So I've been working with a lot of clients who are in the five years of working range up to 15, 20 years. And I find that the problems are actually quite similar. And actually, it's also consistent with my observation around clients that I work with. Mostly are in the corporate world, right?

Around 20 years old to about 50 plus years old. A lot of times, right? Because job search is a process. So it doesn't really matter how old you are at whatever level that you're at. You need to follow the right process. And specifically for interviews, everybody will get anxiety, but it's the, what are you saying and how you're saying it and then the positioning point and then the practice point is really going to make a big difference it doesn't you know it's it's not like somebody who has more years of working experience will have it easier no it's not true in fact there are people who work for many years are still also panicking over the interview process and recently i also have situations where people come to me

asking me like you know can you can you guarantee that certain thing can happen or like i can definitely uh go through and so forth you know and there are also people who tell me that pay me if you help me um you know pass this interview then i will only pay you when i get the job offer stuff like that now a lot of these, I don't really go by this model. And the reason is because, as I said, there are two parts to it, right? It's what you say, the positioning, and then the how you say, which is the practice. Now, I can help you with the positioning point. I can give you very, very specific pointers. I can even teach you exactly what to say, the right words, the right tone,

the right delivery, the right pause, the right facial expression. All these I can teach you in a one-on-one session. But the practice is on you, correct? So because the practice is on you, you will need to take responsibility as to how well you can deliver. It's like you're watching a kung fu,

you went for a kung fu class, right? And then you look at the master kung fu guy, and you learn from the master kung fu. I mean, every demonstration can be done properly, but at the end of the day, it's on you to go and practice and make it happen. You can continue to get feedback, but at the end of the day, you need to be responsible and make it happen, because it's a skill. Just like many things that are skills, it does take a little bit of time to master it. Like for example, when I first started in my career,

I was so bad doing interviews. But as I move up, I learned the skill. And later when I became a hiring manager, I could actually see two sides, the interviewee and the interviewer. And it actually made it a lot easier for me to interview in the future because I know exactly what the hiring manager wants to hear

because I've hired a lot of people from fresh graduate all the way to director level. You know, people who are making fresh graduate salary all the way to like six figures and so forth. I've hired all these people. So I know exactly what hiring managers are looking for. I know exactly what teams are looking for. And I think that's really, really, really invaluable. So I challenge you to think about how you can actually get familiar

with your unique selling point, which I call the USP. How are you selling yourself during interviews? And even before going into the session, are you even confident? That will make a very, very, very big difference if that is something that really matters to you. And honestly, if you need help, please go and get it. Because most of the time,

if you personally assess your own interview performance, you probably think that you did okay. Or even if you didn't think that you do very well, you probably would not be able to break down exactly what you messed up on. And that's purely because you don't have any hiring manager experience, as simple as that.

Like, nothing to blame yourself about. It's just that you have never had that experience, so it's a bit more difficult to visualize what the other party is actually hearing or seeing if you don't have that experience. Okay? So, if you want to learn more about this step-by-step to run an effective job search,

you can always go to my free training at www.growyourcorporatecareer.com. So in this training, I actually walk you through the six steps that you should be aware of to plan and grow your career. And a very big portion of the front part is really learning about the mistakes that you are making in the job search process and likely why you are making in the job search process and likely why you are not getting results. So if this is currently your problem, then I highly recommend you check it out. It doesn't matter if you're actively looking or you're passively

looking. This six-step process will be relevant as long as you are a nine-to-five working professional in the corporate world. So for those of you also asking, currently in my online course, The Corporate Survivor at www.thecorporatesurvivor.co, job search is a bonus module, bonus lessons that's included. So that's something that if you just need the videos and you want to be able to do it yourself in terms of interview questions and prep, you can definitely do that. But usually for job search, I actually recommend a combination of video and one-on-one because if it's something that's super duper important, it probably makes better sense to get it personalized

to your situation. So if you guys have any questions, you can let me know in the chat box. You probably will end a little bit earlier because I'm getting a bit of a flu and I probably want to rest a bit. I actually had three coaching sessions today, so I'm very tired. So let's have a look at any quick questions that you have, probably answer a few. And yeah. All right. Before we kind of get into the questions,

if you have missed any of the 30-day live stream series and you want to catch the replays, you can actually go to my YouTube channel or Spotify, where I've uploaded all the replays as well. And specifically, if you want to cover some interview topics, I think day three, I did talk a lot about interview mistakes. So you can definitely check that one out also. Okay, so this is a 30-day career live stream series that I'll go live at 9 o'clock Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong time every single day in May. So if you're new here, my name is Mei Ping and I hope that you are getting a lot of value from today's session.

Okay, let me get to the questions. Hi Michael, good to see you here. All right, so I have a question here. How do I answer a question on why I only work for a short period of time in a company? Now, this is a very broad question. Actually, I cannot give you the answer because I don't actually know why. And I think that you should first assess your overall career journey, particularly if you are in the process of changing jobs or you are in the process of trying to craft out why you're leaving certain company and whatnot. So I'd say

that it probably starts with your resume on whether in the career summary portion, you are actually clear on what your career goal is and how the story actually sort of like moves as well. So normally for interviews, like it's a bit more difficult to give you that answer directly the reason is because a lot of it like I said actually comes from the the resume portion how you write that career story starts in your resume and the interview is just a verbal articulation of it okay all right so let's move to the next question. Oops. All right. So, hi, Mei Ping. I think another source of interview anxiety is the pressure to get the job at a particular company, especially if it's a prestigious company. Okay, that's a fair point, right? But I think at the end end of the day it's good to have a clear goal

that you know that it's a big it's a big company is that you see a dream company but the process of getting the job is the same the process of passing the interview is the same so it's almost like um you look at mount you look at mount everest and you are kind of like at the base of mount everest and you keep looking at the peak of Mount Everest wanting to put your country's flag yeah but but there is a process of getting there right so it's like great you can get clear on your goal and then that's it the it's actually the step by step that gets you the results and I think for a lot of people um don't always appreciate that and I know I know that for a lot of people even even not just in job search, even like for soft skills, right? Surviving in the corporate world, navigating the corporate world. I actually,

actually in my course, I actually cover a lot more about that. But I also find that a lot of people, they may not want to follow the sequence and they just want to jump to the fancier lessons. They want to jump to the fancier models. They want to jump to the fancier models. And that's because it's the shiny object syndrome, right? They want to get to the peak as fast as possible. But the fact that you're skipping something or you're not focused on the actual steps and the actual framework and roadmap to get there, that is the exact reason why you're not going to get results, if that makes sense. So it sounds a bit counterintuitive, but actually it's really, really important. Okay?

So think about it. Think about it, what I said. And I think we will end today's live stream here because I don't feel very well. I'm actually losing my voice. I had three sessions. I had like three sessions as well, plus the live stream.

So I'm kind of losing my voice. And I wish you all a happy, happy weekend. And if you want to binge on the previous episodes, make sure that you follow me on Spotify as well as on YouTube. And I'll see you guys tomorrow. Bye.