Corporate Survivor with Mei Phing : Career Growth In The Corporate World - Ep214: Is life coaching legit or scam? #reaction

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

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Hello, welcome or welcome back to the Corporate Survivor Podcast with me, Mei Ping, ex-corporate leader turned career coach. Today is going to be a very special episode because it is going to be a reaction video. So recently I was interviewed by Rise Media, which is Singapore's independent reporting agency, and the topic is really around life coaching. So what is with all these life coaches that you hear about on social media, online or websites and so forth and what are some of my thoughts around that as a career coach, as somebody in the industry. It is a very interesting article and in this episode, I want to go through with you step by step, line by line on what we discussed in the article itself. I'm going to add additional commentary. I'm going to share additional

perspectives with you and specifically, I just want to add additional commentary. I'm going to share additional perspectives with you. And specifically, I just want to make it very clear that these are my personal opinions. These are my personal views as we go along. So if you're listening on audio, I think the video version would be better because I'll be going through line by line. I'll be sharing screen.

I think it will make a lot more sense if you're looking at this on video. Okay, so it would be also awesome if you are watching this on YouTube or anywhere else, drop a comment. I really love to hear what are your thoughts around career coaching, life coaching and what are your experiences as well. So let's get started. Now, a little bit about Rise Media. So Rise Media puts things in perspective according to their website. It is a digital publication committed to delivering clarity and sensibility about life in Southeast Asia

through investigative reporting, cultural commentary, and critical analysis. We make an impact through well-told human interest stories that drive people to think deeper and broaden their worldviews. So this is based on Rice Media's website. And recently I spoke to their editor around my thoughts on the life coaching industry and what is this coaching thing all about. And we had a pretty interesting conversation. In this article itself, the editor also speaks to other coaches as well. So I'll be sharing some of my thoughts around what the other coaches are saying also. So hopefully you'll find this interesting. Hopefully you'll find it insightful. Hopefully if you're someone who's thinking about career coaching and exploring life coaching, hopefully this gives you a bit of an idea of how to make

a decision and deciding whether it is right for you. So let me go through that article with you quickly. All right. So I've contributed to this recent article by Rise Media titled, What's with Singapore's search in self-proclaimed life coaches? So I think this is a very interesting question because if you're someone on social media, I'm sure that you have noticed that coaching is kind of like this thing that is really hot, really popular, and you not just see life coaches, but you see career coaches, you see success coaches, health coaches, relationship coaches, and so forth. So this article starts by talking about

when controversial KOL Silver Chan resurfaced in March as a life coach, the general online sentiment was, huh? Can meh? The last time she made headlines was, it was for allegedly abusing her staff at production company like L Cinematics. Video footage has image of her smoking and shrugging of employees' concerns during a conference call. A string of influencers called her out and accused her of being a toxic boss. Now, a couple of years after her life imploded, she's on a redemption arc. I can sit with your fears and vulnerabilities as I have lived and embraced mine, her website declares. And maybe she will. We haven't booked a session with her yet, so we can't say for sure.

Silver aside, it seems like everyone who's a LinkedIn type these days fancies themselves as a coach. Feeling lost in life, there's a life coach out there willing to help. Want a better boss? Maybe a leadership coach is what you need. A little burnout, perhaps. Oh, look, there's a wellness coach in your LinkedIn inbox. It's gotten to a point where

actual training coaches get painted with the same brush as the other hacks out there. And sometimes clients only realize they have hired a dud after spending thousands of dollars in coaching fees. Not to mention how an unqualified coach and unprofessional methods can cause physical harm, psychological harm. The problem is clear. Anyone can call themselves a coach. The solution is a little less straightforward. Now, I really love this article's opening because it's kind of sarcastic, but it's really blunt and really direct at the same time. Now, what I find really funny in this opening section is the connotation of this, anyone who's a LinkedIn type, who fancies themselves as a coach. It is quite funny because I will tell you that I have been on LinkedIn since 2012. So that was more than 10 years ago when I was still

very active in my corporate job. And LinkedIn started as a job search platform. It's a job search website where you connect with recruiters and you get seen by hiring managers, HR recruiters for additional, for new career opportunities, you know, so that you don't feel stuck at your job. So I've used LinkedIn for more than 10 years and I can tell you that LinkedIn has definitely changed a lot from the first time I got on the platform, you know, in 2012. And from times where I've used LinkedIn to personally find a job for myself,

to help me advance in my corporate career, you know, moving from Ernst & Young to Visa and to Science Chartered, LinkedIn has definitely played a part. But if you look at LinkedIn nowadays, it's a little bit different. LinkedIn right now is filled with personal branding strategies telling you that you need to write some fancy viral content to get noticed. And I kind of understand where Rice Media is coming from, where the editor is coming from by saying that, you know, there's a LinkedIn type and it's a little bit sarcastic.

But yeah, let me share some additional perspectives as we go along. But I just found this part really, really funny. Yeah, this part really, really funny. Okay, so the other point that the editor also makes in the opening is that, you know what, if you have problems, right, with your life, right, there's a life coach. If you want to, you know, if you want to work with a better boss, you know, maybe a leadership coach is what you need.

Burnout, maybe you can look for a wellness coach. Now, I think all these are true. I think that whatever help that you need, it is available. And this is not necessarily a bad thing. I do think that nowadays with social media, with online connectivity, online networking, it's actually a good thing that you can get help. Because for me, if I think about, you know, when I was growing up in the 90s and

the year, in the year 2000s, you don't even know where to get help. And yes, there may be people around you that you can ask for advice, but do we really listen to them? I'm not sure. So I think generally it's not a bad thing to be able to get help as you need it. I think the real question is, you know, whether the person that you're asking for advice, the person that you're getting help is really the right person with the right expertise to help you. So I think that's really the question. Okay, so let's move on in the article.

So the problem statement is, right? Okay, so anyone can call themselves a coach. So the solution is a little less straightforward. Now, this part, I really, really agree because it's so easy to just label coach and we don't want the clients to kind of like figure out later whether it works or not. So let's actually answer the interesting question here.

And this is actually the next part of the article. And the big question is presented to us, which is why are there so many coaches? of the article. And the big question is presented to us, which is, why are there so many coaches? So the article continues, even though coaches sometimes get a bad rap, there is still a certain amount of prestige attached to it. It's a career that people do aspire towards.

Overseas, you've got people like Tony Robbins and Robin Sharma building self-help empires. People have a mental image that when they think of coaches, polished, professional, well-spoken, confident experience, sure, they tend to use fluffy buzzwords such as synergy, transformation, but most coaches still follow basic ethics and standards. The International Coaching Federation, ICF certification, is one the most professional coaches have.

According to ICF, a good coach should be focused on outcomes. Different clients have different goals. That's why most coach-coachee relationships start off with a formal coaching agreement outlining specific results-bound objectives. The coach then guides their clients to achieve their goals. Now, this part, I definitely agree. Okay, so let me continue the next portion. So rather than telling the clients what to do, the focus should be equipping clients with the tools to discover their own solutions and solve their own problems. Now, I definitely agree. So there are a couple of interesting points

that I picked up from this second part of the article in which they talk about how people have a mental image when they think of coaches as polished, professional, well-spoken, confident, and experienced. Now, I think every profession has a certain stereotype or a certain image, but it may not necessarily mean that it is true. Because based on my experience being a career coach

and someone who has actually been in the corporate world for a very long time, yes, people do have a mental image, at least at the beginning. But at the end of the day, it is really down to your ability to get results, right? To partner with a coach, a mentor, or an expert to help you get results. So I still think that results, right? A process-driven strategy to get results, right? It's a very results-based process is really what people are signing up for. That's what people want. And the next thing is real experiences to be able to help the client get the results. And the third thing is personality, meaning how well do you feel that you can relate, you can connect, and you can communicate with your coach.

Now, I think these three things are really, really important. This is something I call my PEP formula, which is process, experience, and personality. Because if you have been following me, you would know that I don't think I look like the typical coach or typical career coach or corporate career coach when you think about someone who would wear suits, black and white, those sort of corporate style.

That's not me. But at the end of the day, I have clients and I work with clients because they are looking for a results-based process, real working experiences, as well as a personality that they can connect in which I have. So I think it's kind of just an interesting thing to pick out and something that I noticed because yes, of course, the mental image is always there. But I think if you're someone who's

considering coaching or working with an expert, then I think this is really just the starting point. At the end of the day, you really want to make sure that whatever experiences um process all this are really driven towards success so the other thing um picked up that i picked up from this section around the icf certification is by saying is saying that you know a good coach should be focused on outcomes right different clients have different goals that's why most coach and coaching relationships start off with formal coaching agreement and so forth. Now, of course, I think it's important that clients have goals. But I will say that if the coach is a very good coach and have a very good understanding of the group of the people that the coach works with,

then the goals of many clients are usually pretty similar. So I'll give an example. So in my career coaching program, every single client who initially comes to me tells me that, Mei Ping, my problem is unique. I don't think anybody else has this exact same problem as me. So I need a lot of help. And I think that I can't get out of this career problem that I'm having right now. Until I tell them, until they join the program, they come into the group mentoring sessions where they learn from other 9-5 professionals just like them. And then they realize that, oh, actually, my problems are not unique.

It feels like my problems are unique, but actually, my problems are not unique. So it's kind of interesting because at the end of the day, if you want a good career, right, you may have many, many goals, but it all ties up with having a good career, less stress, getting rewarded for your hard work, right, growth opportunities. These are big, big goals that many people want as well. So I think a really good coach is someone who can really understand the client that they're working with, have a results-based process to help them to get there. Okay, so let's move on to the next part of the article.

So this part is really interesting as well. So it says, so continuing on, the article says, being a good coach is certainly not easy, but why does it seem these days when you throw a stone, you hit some sort of coach? The life coach industry is in fact growing both globally and locally. Today's world is so uncertain that business transformations and career papers are part of life. Outside of our jobs, we are all trying to find fulfillment and purpose. There's only so much YouTube videos and self-help books

can do. So people turn to professionals like career coaches and mindfulness coaches. This uncertainty makes entering the life coach profession seems particularly appealing. After all, achieving time freedom and being an entrepreneur does sound a lot better than being a cock in the machine. Even so, the booming coaches might have to do with other factors beyond natural supply and demand. Michelle Ma, a well-being and mindfulness practitioner, coach and qualifying counselor, suspects that one contributing factor may be the way some coaching schools market themselves. There are plenty of good schools out there, she says, but a few attract students by glamorizing the profession and selling the idea

that anyone can become a coach and make big bucks. This is so true. I'm going to share some tea with you guys on how the coaching schools actually work. And this is something that I've personally experienced myself and it's going to get covered in the article as we go along. But let me just make a very, very quick point at this part of the article. Now, it talks about, actually my favorite part on this section of the article is saying that there's only so much YouTube videos and self-help books can do. So people turn to professionals such as career coaches and mindfulness coaches. I think this is absolutely true. Now, at this point, you may argue with me saying that, hey, maybe, you know,

I can still get, I can get answers to my career problems or career challenges. I can read books. I can read blogs. I can listen to a podcast, I can watch YouTube videos, that should suffice. Now, I'll say this, if it works for you, great. I think you should continue to do that. I also have a podcast, I also have a blog, and many, many people in my community, many of my followers gain so much insights from just going through some of these free resources.

Now, the reality is that what these people are missing out on is that in order to achieve a result right what you need is not random tips here and there you need an integrated step-by-step strategy that can get you the results that you want in the proven way in the shortest time possible to avoid all the mistakes along the way now i think this is actually what it takes to become successful to have a good career, to achieve whatever life goals that you want. So even though we feel like, okay, you know, YouTube videos is great, but YouTube videos is just that one perspective. It's that one perspective

of the YouTuber, even as an expert, sharing it with you. But there's no two-way street. There's no learning from real-life experiences, things that things that actually work right it's a video that's made for thousands and thousands of people so i just think it's something worth thinking about because i can really see the very big difference between people who watch my youtube videos people who follow my podcast versus the members in my career program where they actively attend the monthly mentoring calls they follow learn and apply step-by-step lessons in my career program where it is actually designed holistically where everything is connected together where one lesson built on the next one so this is really something that will help you to like i said apply the right strategy and achieve results in the shortest time

possible and this is something that will really allow you to have focus. So yeah, like I said, this part, I agree. There's only so much YouTube videos and self-help books can do. Now, this other part I wanted to talk about is really around the coaching schools. Now, I've attended a coaching school before and it is pretty dodgy to say the least. So I'll share a little bit more in this article. So let's kind of like go along. Okay, so it says, so how much you can earn varies wildly depending on your experience level and personal branding.

While Silver was still in training, she offered one-hour calls for $35 to $88 Singapore dollars a pop. Esteemed UK life coach, Ms. Michael Serwa, famously have clients willing to pay up to £30,000 a session. So financial freedom may sound enticing.

However, it may not be as glamorous as it looks. At the end of the day, mentoring, coaching, and counselling are helping professionals. The intention to enter these professions must be clear from the start. If going in for the money is a primary motivating factor, something is off here. 100%. Now, I'm going to get into my story as shared with the Rise Media team. So, Mipin Lim,

a career coach, has first-hand experience. She attended one of these schools, which she declines the name, back in 2019, when she was still climbing the corporate ladder. Though she has shifted to coaching, providing career advice was something that, providing career advice to those who reach out was something she willingly engaged

in. She thought that the certification program would be a learning experience. Instead, she found herself going over things she already knew. She looked around and saw these basic things like communication skills were things her classmates found challenging. These coaching schools target people who are looking for another option. She says maybe these people aren't happy at their jobs, maybe they're unemployed. They're targeting these people and telling them that, hey, if you join this, if you get this certification, then you can become a coach and start working with clients. Anyone can become a coach, you just need some coaching skills. Now, I'm going to pause here because this is really a story that I have never ever shared before until this article. Now, to give you guys a little bit of context, right? In 2019,

I was still climbing the career ladder. I was doing really well at my job. I got promoted every year for the past four years, not just promotions as well as salary increments. So one of the things that I personally enjoyed

when people reach out to me, I used to be pretty active on LinkedIn. So when people reached out to me on LinkedIn DMs, right, asking for career advice, particularly if there's something that I could help with, I could share quickly, I would definitely do that. So one of the ideas I had, and I heard a lot about this whole career coaching thing, coaching industry, you know, that certification, it sounds like it's something so helpful. And I think that if you're someone who has a degree, you're someone who has a master's or some kind of like um someone

who actually prioritizes self-like paper education like to be able to gain another certification it is a pretty compelling idea like to be honest it's a pretty compelling idea so i did a little bit of research i saw a couple of coaching schools offering these certification programs and these are certified globally and so forth. So I was like, okay, you know what? Let me attend some of these classes and some for this certification to see what this is all about. So I thought going in, I would learn some coaching methods,

which to be honest, I did. But I think it was such an underwhelming experience because I thought maybe it was my expectation issue. I thought it would be like some magic formula and then some pretty, pretty solid sort of like coaching methods and so forth. But eventually what I learned was, okay, actually coaching coaching is an art.

It's the art of communicating. It's the art of asking questions. And the, I mean, we kind of joined sort of in a cohort. And I've noticed that for the other students, and many of them were older than me, they were in their late 30s and early 40s. And quite a few of them whom I've spoke with

were unemployed. They were extremely unhappy at their jobs. And they told me that they joined the program because they wanted to make a career change. They're hoping that they could use this certification to work with clients and have a different income stream. Or maybe they could transition to another career that is less

stressful, that is not as problematic because they were pretty much drowning at their jobs. So this was a group of people who shared this with me. And as part of this certification program, there were also group sessions where we had to practice with one another and so forth. And I really, really saw that these other students struggle, even though they were older than me. And, you know, it's basically communication skills, but they really, really struggled to ask questions, to really understand the coaches or rather the practice coaches,

challenges and so forth. It was quite a shocking experience, to be honest. And for the coaching schools, I mean, I don't want to be very and um for the coaching schools i mean i want to be very careful with the words i say here but a little bit dodgy a little bit dodgy because the the marketing was all about okay you know you're gonna like gain this certification it's gonna be so helpful you can use this um everywhere you can work with any clients and so and when your client tells you this you should tell them that and so forth. And there was also a little bit of an MLM part, which the article also covers a little bit shortly,

where it talked a lot about how after you get that certification, if you don't have any clients, then you could represent the coaching school to onboard new clients by offering free coaching or rather, you know, paid on a nominal basis. Offer free coaching, but the real job is basically sales, is to sell other people into that coaching program. So I think it's a little bit unclear at the start,

but eventually that was what happened. I was traveling quite a lot, so I was not involved in this little marketing activity and sales thing that they were doing, but definitely I heard extremely unhappy students about that experience. So anyway, moving back to this article. So it says, coaching is also a desirable career due to flexibility

and viability as a side hustle, Carolyn tells me. While the coach facilitator consultant advisor doesn't have any hard statistics, she's convinced

that coaching academy saw a boom during the pandemic with everyone trapped at home and many dealing job losses. Obtaining this certification became an easy way for people

to make good use of their downtime. These coach certifications don't come cheap they pay estimates that they start at three thousand dollars it can go all the way up to ten thousand dollars with this some cost some coaches may feel trapped and even if coaching turns out you know it isn't for them what else can they do after spending so much on their certification okay i need to like really share a story here because $3,000, Singapore dollars, I would say it's really, really the minimum

because what happens is that you need to take that basic certification, right? That is already around $3,000. Then they tell you that, okay, after you take that basic certification, you also need to register to take the examination. So the examination then costs an extra few hundred dollars. Then you need to sign up

with the federation, which then costs another few hundred dollars. And if you want to take any specialist certification, which is an add-on to that certification, it is another few thousand dollars. And you could also take this certification, that certification

to hit the mandatory hours as a member. And you also need to take this additional certification to sharpen your coaching skills. So before you even complete anything, you could be spending, like I said here, minimum $3,000 and definitely way more, way more. And there's all these other specialist certifications such as NLP, which is the Neuro Linguistic Programming, which usually starts at around $5,000. So many, many more. And the reality is that a trainee coach, right, has not even started coaching any clients yet.

They are still in the training phase, but they have spent a lot of money to continue equipping themselves with coaching skills and to continue to equip themselves with confidence, right? Because if anybody can become a coach and these programs have like no qualification whatsoever, so basically if you have the money, you can join. So you then now have a group of people who have no idea no foundation no starting ground no baseline and now they're like hey you can be a coach and then these coaching skills sell them more of these certifications to help them upskill extremely dodgy based on my personal opinion extremely dodgy okay so i still strongly feel and believe that personal opinion personal opinion that it is true that some

coaches feel trapped because at the end of the day think about it like if you have spent thousands of dollars and then you realize that oh you just need to spend another few hundred dollars to further equip yourself and if you're afraid to even talk to clients to even work with clients to communicate clients and you're not even showing your ability to help clients get results, then the most, I won't say it's the most realistic thing, but I think the thing that most people would do

is to continue to invest in more certification because what they really, really need is confidence. And it's like a situation where if you feel that you're not skillful enough, you'll just continue investing in some other kind of like paper qualification, hoping that everything's going to be okay. Now, the reality is it is not going to be okay, but I can understand the psychology of it.

Okay, so continuing on, continuing on. Okay, so this next section of the article talks about red flags. So the article continues. We haven't even taken into account the people who simply slap a life coach on their LinkedIn profile. Currently, there aren't any laws in Singapore that we should prohibit that. The result is bad apples who may not even be qualified charging vulnerable people top dollar with the promise of solving their problems. Clients seek out coaches because they feel stuck in life, but they aren't necessarily aware of what to look out for. Red flags are easily overlooked.

I think it's dangerous if you become a coach for the wrong reasons and you don't know what you're doing. But the clients aren't for you to experiment on. You shouldn't destroy someone else's career because you're trying to figure out your situation. Career coaches without real corporate experience may lead their coaches down a wrong path. Mapping offers a simple analogy.

If you eat something unhealthy, you can simply swear it off in the future. If you make a wrong career decision, it's not so easy to reverse, says Mei Ping. As she has seen in real cases, some of them are clients who approach her for help after being burned by previous coaches. Now, okay, I'm going to come on screen quickly. And I want to expand on this point because I think this is something that, you know, a lot of people don't really, really talk about because there's that one school of thought saying that, you know, anybody can become a career coach. It's so easy.

It's so easy. But the thing is that there are, you know, coaches in training who are offering services, who are offering career guidance and career advice. Now, I think it's a little bit, it's a little bit dodgy. I can't think of a better word. It's a little bit dodgy. And personally, I think that career coaching is one of those things that you need expertise and you need real experiences

because it's not just a matter of like giving a random advice and then wishing your client good luck. Guess what? Your client is going to use that advice and going to have some takeaways from that coaching call with you. And then he or she will then go to their workplace

to go and apply whatever that you said. And what if you are inexperienced and you just spout something out of your mouth and then that client goes out and gets into significant amount of trouble because you offered the wrong advice or you let them down the wrong path. Now, I think that is really dangerous and I think that is so irresponsible in which I think if you are like a legit expert, you're a legit coach and you truly care about your clients,

you should not be advising anyone, you shouldn't be sharing any perspectives, you shouldn't be giving any advice if you haven't actually done it. If you are not sure and not 100% experienced enough to know the consequences and to really have that longer-term view as to what is going to happen, whatever that you say. I think having some responsibility on the role that you take as a coach or a mentor,

I think that is so, so, so important. I think it's not just a matter of like, oh, it's a coaching session, I just say something and then the client's going to do something and then next round, the client has a problem, the client come back again.

I think that it's about understanding and then giving that perspective so that the client can make the best decisions. But how can you offer perspective if you have no idea what is going on and if you got into coaching because you think it's a good idea or you felt that the coaching schools gave you a big promise but it didn't turn out to be and eventually what happens

like now that now the client gets trapped and i think that is not right and i think that is not fair so personally for me that you know one of the things that you know i talked to with the um rice media team so they asked me you know how do you know that these things are happening and i told the editor that, yeah, these people are coming in my DMs and telling me all the problems that they had,

which is getting fluffy advice, getting, you know, feel-good motivational stuff, but not a very, very good understanding as to where the problems lie. What's the root cause problem? Why is this happening?

What am I missing? What's the perspective I need to have for my career? Now, all these things are really, really important. Eventually, they come to me and they tell me all the frustrations and stuff like that, right? So these are real.

And like I said, you know, nobody advertises their career problems online, right? Everyone's very happy online. Everything works online. But it's usually in the DMs where I hear all these stories, which is really a bit unfortunate. And that's why I always, I feel very strongly that, you know, you need to do your research, you need to have a clear goal, and you need to really understand and follow and have a good understanding of the coach's background, the coach's experience, you know, the coach's strategy and framework. And it's

something that you truly feel that you want to learn from and you feel can help your career. I think taking that kind of responsibility on your end is really really really important okay let's go back to the article okay so yeah so just just to just to wrap up this particular point where i talked about how if you eat something unhealthy you can simply swear it off in the future if you make a wrong career decision it's not very easy to reverse. Now, I feel very, very strongly about this because if you make a career damaging mistake, if you make a reputation damaging mistake, you might destroy the relationship that you have with your boss.

You may create problems with people at work, or you may even create more problems when doing your job. And eventually, you may need to even leave your position, or it may get you stuck and not get the job promotion or the salary increment that you deserve. All these are long-lasting impacts. It's not something that you can reverse quickly, right? It's not like if I eat a muffin or I eat like fried chicken, and it's not good for me, I'm like, okay, you know, I just don't eat it tomorrow, right? The impact is not really that big. But in a career, a wrong career decision or a wrong career move due to incorrect advice or not well-taught advice or incorrect perspectives,

it is going to be very challenging because your professional reputation is at stake. Okay. So, continuing on with this article from another coach sharing her experiences that Carrie recalls in a recent event she attended where she was floored by supposedly a qualified life coach's unprofessionalism has been talking about his own past

during a public talk and Sally brought up his SA in graphic detail. So, okay, this part I'm going to skip a little bit because it's another coach's experience. But the key point here that this other coach is talking about is that incompetent or unethical trainers can actually cause real harm to their clients. When coaches realize that the clients may be dealing with unresolved trauma

or may need professional mental health services, the ethical thing is to inform the client, says Carol. If the coach doesn't inform the client about this, the unresolved issues may fester and get worse.

And even if it doesn't get to that point, you are still breeding a certain level of emotional dependency. Now, this is actually a really, really interesting comment.

And I think my view around this is at the end of the day, if you're an expert and you truly care about your client, it is your responsibility to know the scope of support, the scope of guidance, to what extent are you able to help the client get results. And if it's really out of your area of expertise, you should refer to the client to someone else. So I'll give an example. Now I'm a career coach. I specialize in helping people working in 9-to-5 jobs who want to gain clarity,

confidence, competence, and opportunities. Now, that is very, very specific, and I specifically work with 9-to-5 working professionals. Now, if a blue-collar worker comes to me saying, Mipin, can you help me? Can I join your program? The answer is no, because the program may not be designed for someone with that kind of career. If a pilot or an as-to-withers comes to me and say, Meping, can I join your program for nine-to-five professionals? I will have to tell them that you can take a look at the strategy that I teach. The framework is all provided in detail, but do be very specific. This program is designed for a nine to five working professional in a nine to five job.

So it is the expert and the trainers and the coaches responsibility to inform the client to give them the relevant information so the client can make the decision for themselves because what you don't want and that kind of irresponsible behavior in which okay everybody can come you're just going to solve everybody's problems when eventually you may not have the expertise to do so so this part i do agree to a certain extent okay let's move on to the um to the other part of the article okay so there are some other stuff around uncomfortableness and so forth so

probably you'll skip that okay so this is the part I wanted to talk about so the article continues some unethical coaching schools can also cross into the cultish territory Carol recalls a vivid memorable bad experience from a decade ago a friend of hers have attended a coaching program

and came back transformed, she recalls. This friend seemed to have found clarity and motivation in life. It was great until the friend started trying to get Carol and the other friends to sign up for this program as well. So the company, which still exists, offers coaching programs for adults, children, and youths. Aspiring coaches go through multiple levels, each level costing over $1,500 Singapore dollars.

They want you to go up the levels with them, but they also want you to get your family in, Carol says. So there's a whole entire ecosystem that you want to bring your whole, they want you to bring your whole network into, which sounds fairly similar to a multi-level marketing scheme. She still keeps in touch with that friend

and that entire episode left a deep impression on her because how persistent her friend was. This is so, so, so, so interesting. So I share an interesting experience. If you're not, this is something that I've also experienced with that coaching school I was telling you about in the earlier section. So now, personally, I think, right,

a red flag is that you're actually making some kind of, like, you're going to make a certain kind of commission for bringing other people into the program to sign up for a coaching program. I think that's not right. That's marketing and sales. And, you know, like I said,

the coaching school that I joined also had this kind of scheme as well. Eventually what happens is that a lot of the trainee coaches felt a lot under pressure to recoup their original investment. Remember I talked about how the investment started from $3,000?

So they were under pressure to recoup their initial investment. Remember I talked about how the investment started from $3,000? So they were under pressure to recoup their initial investment and eventually felt a little bit pressured to sign up new students so that they can get that commission, for lack of a better word, from the coaching school, which I think is extremely dodgy.

Now, the reality is that if you are someone who is signing up for a coaching program or a health coaching program a relationship coaching program i don't know career coaching program that should be to achieve your own career goals so whenever there is some monetary monetary element involved in terms of like commission then i guess the real question is how much of that how much of that then is you just wanting to make more money or rather than you know that that program gives you gives you a chance to make

money versus you are joining the program because you really want to gain career clarity you really want to improve your work performance your work competence you want to get you want to learn how to get new opportunities I think the main driver between the main driver of like why people join the program like to me that is really really important So if you know like a coach or a mentor or a life coach who's telling you that, hey, if you join my program and then if you get someone else to join the program, then you're going to get a commission, then whoa, I think that is definitely a red flag. Definitely, definitely a red flag. Okay. So moving back, moving back to the article. Okay okay so the next part of the article discusses what counts as unethical even within the coaching field though there isn't a single consensus on

what is unethical as something of a purist carol shares that relying on personal experience to coach isn't the best practice i show her silver chance website which promises that she will guide from first-hand experience not concepts carol immediately shakes her head. The moment you wear your coaching hat, the ethics of ICF would have taught you that as a coach, we are very clear that we must assume a neutral position, so we do not bring any of our biases or own lived experiences, and we do not coach from a position of experience. Ultimately, a coach is different from a mentor.

Carol explains, the coach basically is meant to be your thinking partner. They come along with you on the process, will probably ask you a bit about your past, but they aren't so interested in your past as they're interested in the future. Now, this definitely I agree. Coaching is all about the future. Okay, moving on to the next part of the article. On the other hand, Michelle shares that being open about her own mental health struggles has attracted clients who want her to guide them through their own journey. I do not see a number of clients with high levels of stress. I do see a number, sorry. I do see a number of clients with high levels of stress and burnout.

Some of them approach me because of my lived experiences. She does, however, add a caveat that coaching sessions still need to be guided with proper legitimate frameworks and techniques. Lived experiences itself is not sufficient for one to be a coach. Yep, yep, definitely. I think that a combination between a step-by-step process as well as sharing necessarily experience to illustrate certain points, to share certain perspectives,

I think that makes the most sense to me. Okay, continuing on with the article, and this is the part where I shared, okay, Mayping Tu has clients approaching her for career coaching because of her still climbing the corporate career ladder and making it making it to unsung young as well as a chartered bank she asked how are you going to bring someone up the mountain if you haven't been there okay i really want to discuss this point where in the world where there are a lot of youtube videos in a world where everybody can be some kind of coach, right?

Whether it's career coach, life coach, success coach, whatever coach that you can think of, my view is very simple. If you truly want to help a client, you truly want to help a person, and you are in a position to share guidance, to lead a client, to share perspectives, to share insights, to share advice,

then personally for me, I would want to learn from someone who actually has been there. So that's why earlier I talked about how being very, very specific with the kind of expertise that me as a coach, I can offer and the kind of clients that would really, really benefit from my career coaching and my career program, which is, you know, nine to to five working professionals being that clear and that specific is so important because this is something that i personally done i climb up the career ladder in 10 years i made it to health department ceo director at central bank i've worked in multiple industries from auditing accounting consulting payments industry, payments industry, fintech, banking, FI,

all these are interrelated. I've been promoted every single year. I was top performer and so forth. So this is something that is a real corporate world experience. That's what I bring to the table. And when clients join my program, that is something that they want to learn from.

My strategies, my insights, my experiences, my mentoring, it's all helping them to navigate the corporate world, which is an expertise that I have. And that's what my nine to five professionals, working clients, that they want. Now, I think the connection is so important because if not, if you can help the whole world,

then okay, then what is the legit result that you can bring? So back to the analogy that, and the quote that I talked about, which is how can you bring someone up the mountain if you haven't been there? If you haven't done anything, you haven't gotten any real results for yourself,

you haven't experienced it for yourself, then how do you know what good looks like? It's like, okay, a good career. Okay, how does that look like? What is it like to talk to your boss and to get your boss to communicate with you and to recognize your hard work? Okay, if you haven't done that, then how are you going to help someone to do that, right?

If you don't know how to get new career opportunities, you don't know how to use LinkedIn to do that, you don't know how to sell your value, okay, then how are you going to help someone else to do that right i think these are important questions to ask and important questions to think about because like i said in a world where everybody can be a coach but i would add a line that like okay but not everybody can be a coach that understands your struggles have the experience that is relevant to your situation, and know the proven step-by-step

and the path and the strategy to get you to the results that you want. I think that is an important element to think about. Okay, so let's move on. Let's move back to the article. Okay, so let me see. Yeah, okay, so this part. So when it comes to the practice

of locking clients into lengthy packages, there's also a split in opinion. Mishaps of the opinion that the practice can raise ethical issues. For financial stability or other personal reasons, it can appear enticing to lock up that lump sum or have a coachee commit to 10 sessions, for example. However, who are we to decide the arbitrary number that can magically move the needle?

That's why any coaching packages need to be supported with proper frameworks and clarity of design outcomes, she adds. Some practitioners may not actually know the progress of the clients from the get-go. If the client gets what they need out of a few sessions, then they'll start with a package that they might not need. But when I asked Mei Ping the same question, she defends the move. It's fine if the coach has proper framework and coaching plan in place. For example, her 12-month program includes step-by-step lessons, group mentoring sessions, and one-on-one coaching. When the client signs up for a coaching

program, they are looking for support as they achieve their goals, but they're also looking for accountability so they don't get distracted. So I don't see as how many sessions, I think we should look at it as a period of time it would take to get the client sustainable results. Now, I think this is so, so, so, so, so important. And fundamentally, I agree with, I disagree. No, I'll make it clear here. I disagree with many coaches out there who are selling like multiple sessions without any plan. Meaning say, hey, if you work with me,

we'll work for six months, we'll work for 10 sessions, and we'll just see how it goes. I think that is the part where the other coaches in the earlier part of the article is talking about in which, okay, if you don't have a plan, then if you sell the client a 10-session pack, then what are we both going to do? So I think that is a fair question. But I think the part that I disagree with is that the coach doesn't have any idea the client situation. Now, I think that is really untrue because at the end of the day, I think it is so, so, so important for the client to have a very clear goal before talking to a career coach, before engaging a career coach,

or before joining any career coaching program, right? Because if you're someone who is just roaming around and you are thinking that, okay, you know what, I just want to get some tips in general. Now, I think if that's the case, then please don't join a coaching program because you don't have very clear goal in mind. If you're

just looking for some kind of inspiration, then I think YouTube and Google and podcast is pretty good, right? But if you're someone, if you have a very, very clear goal in mind, you know that, okay, I just started a new job, right? I want to quickly adapt at my new job. I want to be able to understand my work expectations. I want to be able to understand my work expectations. I want to be able to build a good relationship with my boss and colleagues and stakeholders and to perform in this job because this is a great opportunity. I don't want to wing it. Now, that's a pretty clear goal in my opinion. And this is where it is perfect if you want to join a program because now you're going in with the mindset of like, okay,

I'm going to find, I'm going to research for the coach who has a program that can help me with career clarity you know career confidence competence opportunities and this is actually an example of clients joining my career program because it is very specific the three-step framework i teach is get clear get confident and get visible that speaks for itself right so the client needs to understand what is the goal? What is the goal that they want to get into?

Then me as a coach, right? In my program, there are step-by-step lessons. So that is the strategy, the methods, the lesson, understanding and application. But it is not just that, okay? Because if it's so easy

to just get some content and to be able to 100% understand it fully and apply it, then we'll all be using like YouTube or chat GPT. It doesn't work like that. So the value of a coaching program is that the framework is designed step by step in a way to get you results, meaning that you're not wasting time, you know, looking at 100 pieces of content on social media, try to figure out which is right, try to figure out which one you should do first and what is the logic behind all of these strategies.

No, in a coaching program, the step-by-step is very clear. Like for me, as I said, my program is three-step framework, right? Step one, get clear on the corporate world. Step two, get confident corporate skills and get visible personal branding. And then there's a bonus course,

which is get opportunities with value positioning, which is a job search course. So as I said, it is a very clear goal for a very, very specific person. So you need to be very clear that that's the goal that you want. Now, as I said,

the strategy, the lesson is just one part, but there's a second part as well. The second part is about accountability to not get distracted and to get results. Now, if it's so easy to, you know, just watch YouTube and to apply everything, then okay, but why so many people are not doing that? Why so many people are still spending so much time

consuming, you know, career tips on social media but not doing anything? The real answer is because it's an accountability issue. People need accountability. People want to commit and to learn from other people's mistakes. People want to have the ability

to ask questions, to get some feedback as they go along the way. And this is why from the accountability section is where the monthly group mentoring sessions, which I do for my career program,

in which members would submit their questions, they would discuss the issues faced by other members, other students, and learn from one another, where I will also share my overall perspective.

But it is a community in which they feel that, okay, every month, I'm committing to attend Mayping's monthly mentoring sessions, where I'm going to share my progress updates. Then it motivates them to go on, right? If you're going to do it alone, you are going to get distracted like almost immediately. You will not even last one month,

right? So that's why accountability is the other part as well. And for my career program, after the step-by-step lessons, the monthly group mentoring sessions, then there's the one-on-one coaching. Now, why one-on-one coaching is important is because there will be certain times where you feel that, okay, you know what? I just need Mei Ping's advice. I just want to talk to Mei Ping directly.

After gaining all the lessons and after gaining all the insights, all the knowledge, after applying everything, now I need more specific feedback. I've taken a lot of action and now I'm like, I'm kind of stuck

at this specific point. And now is the point that I want to talk to Mei Ping. Now is the point I want to get some guidance. This is how it works, right? Which, you know, coaching, training,

that's just the first part, okay? The part that everybody needs help with actually is accountability, actually staying consistent, actually is getting a different perspective, having insights,

having some feedback as to, hey, actually, what am I doing wrong? I'm really doing all these things, right? But why am I not getting results? How come I'm a little bit confused here and there? That is really the value. That is really the value. So the people who say that, oh, you know, we shouldn't lock down clients for a certain period of time. I disagree. I think these coaches have no idea what their clients are actually doing. They have no idea what the goals and the results that the clients actually want. So a good coach will understand you well. And for me, I can tell you that

a working cycle, right? A performance year is 12 months, right? So my career program, the group mentoring session is 12 months because you need to be able to commit, to implement, to get the results and to really apply all the lessons within a 12-month period. You need to give yourself a full performance year, a full work performance year to assess yourself. Not just, you know, at your job, you have a 12-month assessment, but through my program can help

you along the way for a period of 12 months. This is really how you get sustainable results. It's not a random session here and there, right? If you're doing random sessions here and there, then that tells me that you lack strategy. You lack accountability. You're just winging it, which is not really a good thing, right? So you basically need an integrated program. So the way my program works is that all the lessons is 24-7. You go in, on time, on target, self-paced. But every single month, you can attend the monthly mentoring call to update on your progress,

to learn from other students, to be accountable to yourself. And when you need specific advice, then you can come for one-on-one coaching. So I think that kind of triangle works really well because it combines training, it combines mentoring, and it combines coaching as well.

Okay, so now let's go back to the article. Let's go back to the article. Okay, so the next part of the article then talks about asking the right questions. So at the end of the day, coaching like counselling, teaching, nursing is a helping profession. Without regulation, it can definitely cause more harm than good. But regulation isn't that simple. So how exactly do you define coaching? How can authorities define what's ethical

and what's not where there may not be clear consensus? Even psychotherapy and counselling are regulated. In Singapore, it's hard to imagine that the coaching field will see any tightening of regulations. But that doesn't mean we have to watch unethical coaches fleece clients. All three coaches I spoke to concur that clients should ask more questions before parting with your heart and cash. So what frameworks does the coach use?

Pippin suggests that clients should find out if the coaches have a structured plan or process to help them achieve their goals. If they're just telling you to hop on the call and figure it out, it might not be a good sign. Now this one, i agree wholeheartedly because the way that the coaching industry works is that you know if you approach a coach and if you have someone who have approached your coach you might be able to relate in which the coach should tell you oh let's hop on the discovery call you can get a free career clarity call and

during the call they try to sell you their program then then the question is then, okay, are they really listening to you? And are they really in a position to help you? Because eventually, if you are joining any sort of like one-on-one coaching program or a career coaching program, I think it's really, really important to understand like, what is the method? Like, what is the process? What is the process? It can't just be, let's just sit around and let's just have a chat. Let's just see what you want to talk about. Let's just see how you feel. That kind of thing, I think is too vague. I think in order to get someone results, you need a results-based process, right? So every single coach should have a framework or a method or a strategy that is very unique and to help the

clients to understand and apply for them to get results. So as I said, right, my program is a three-step framework. Get clear, get confident, and get visible. If you're asking me this, like tomorrow, next month, next year, I'm going to tell you

the exact same thing, right? Because I've been running my career program for a few years. It's get clear, get confident, and get visible. And then the steps and the methods are designed to help you get that result.

Every single thing, whether it's the training, the lessons, the mentoring, the one-on-one coaching, it is all help, you know, all designed to help you get that result. Every single thing, whether it's the training, the lessons, the mentoring, the one-on-one coaching, it is all aimed to help you get clear, get confident, and get visible. That is the framework. That is the overarching strategy to get results. Okay, so let's get back to the article. Okay, so just the last part of the article.

So beyond the ICF certification, are they trained in their particular niche? For example, someone who advises business and executives, carriers also trained in rating thinking, positive intelligence, and applied critical thinking. Michelle focuses on mindfulness and wellness niche. It's trained in gold standard of mindfulness programs, mindfulness-based stress reduction,

as well as rigorous training such as mindful self-compassion and search inside yourself. And even if they've ticked all the boxes, is their personality even compatible with yours? Sometimes even the coach seems perfect on paper, the coach-coachee relationship won't work if the vibes are off. Despite some skepticism about the coach's roles, their successes show that there's clearly a market for what they do, and the right coach truly can make a difference. To work with human beings is a true blessing and making sure that you have done your due diligence

to meet professional standards will go a long way in supporting what should be your ultimate aim in the first place, which is to support the client wholeheartedly. Now this part,

I definitely agree. Particularly the point around making sure that the personality is compatible with yours, making sure that you feel that you can connect with the coach, you feel that the coach understands you, you feel that you can relate with the coach, the coach's story resonates with you. I think all these are so, so, so, so, so important because at the end of the day, like, you know, on paper, everybody's

going to look the same, right? I mean, everybody has that, like, that qualification. Every coach is going to say that they can help you and so forth. But at the end of the day, who do you feel connected with? Like, who do you feel that you can relate with? Because, you know, personally, I'll tell you that I don't want anybody joining my career program if they feel that they cannot resonate and they cannot gain value from any of the social media career tips I'm sharing, any of my 200 plus podcast episodes, like these free resources, free content is there for you to get a flavor and get a feel

of not just the coach's personality, but the coach's style, like the way that the coach communicates, the way that the coach makes a point, like is this something that you feel? Okay, you know what? I can relate with Mei Ping, you know, I've been listening

to Mei Ping for a while, I've been following Mei Ping for a while, I really, really get what Mei Ping is saying, then welcome, right? I welcome you on board in my career coaching program. So take this as a chance to get to know the coach. Like you, personally, I don't think you need a one-on-one session, a one-on-one discovery call, which is going to turn into a sales call, to really get to know the coach. Because that's not you getting to know the coach. That's a sales conversation to know the coach that's a sales conversation a client discovery call a career discovery call a career clarity free call not all these free calls that you find from all these coaches out there like uh that's not a

personality get to know session that's a sales session right i'm just telling you from you know this really behind the scenes so so so so the point is that there are many ways that you can get to know the coach's personality the style and the tone please you know do your research follow the coach on social media really really evaluate the advice the guidance and the perspectives that is something that makes sense something that you find insightful then yeah maybe that is the coach that you feel confident that you want to learn from. And the personality as well,

and the way of communication as well. So for example, there are many people who join my career program after following me on the podcast for a very long time. They tell me that, hey, maybe I've been listening

to your podcast for a while. I really like this episode, this episode where you talk about this and that. I could really relate to what you're saying. I really like that you could break down some of these simple concepts. I really like this episode, this episode where you talk about this and that. I could really relate to what you're saying. I really like that you could break down some of these simple concepts. I really like your explanations. They're very different from what other people are saying. I

could relate a lot with that. So like I said, you know, there are many, many ways that you can get a sense of the coach's personality, the vibe, the style, and all these things are things that you can experience first because it really gives you a deep flavor as to when you join a career coaching program. Like this is actually what you're going to get, right? So what you don't want is some fluffy stuff. And then, you know, when you join a program, then, you know, you get shocked by something else, right? So take your time, do your research

and definitely reach out to the coach to ask questions. If you feel like you want to learn more about the coach's framework, the strategy, how the program works. And I think all these are questions that you can definitely ask want to learn more about the coach's framework, the strategy, how the program works. And I think all these are questions that you can definitely ask because at the end of the day,

like, as a coach, for me, I want you to make the right decision for yourself. Right? If my program can help you, right, I have a career program

called The Corporate Survivor. If it can help you, then welcome on board. I look forward to really helping you to plan, navigate, and grow your career. But if you need some time to check out

some free resources, whether it's my resources or something else, then feel free. I have a podcast. I have a blog. I share. I have a free career guide. I have a free training. There's a bunch of stuff that you can definitely pick up and learn from.

So this is a much longer episode. So I hope that you find this article breakdown and commentary interesting. And if you have any insights and anything that you found interesting, if you're watching YouTube, definitely drop a comment. I'd love to hear what you think about it because I know it's a pretty long article, particularly my commentary. I think we're almost to an hour already. It's pretty interesting.

Love to hear from you. What are your thoughts around life coaches, career coaches? Have you worked with a coach? Are you considering working with a coach? Are you considering working with a coach yet? Share your experiences in the comment section, particularly if you're

watching on YouTube. I really love to hear from you. It's something that I'm pretty curious about. So with that, I hope that you enjoyed this very special reaction episode

and I'll see you in the next episode. Bye!