Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 107 singer-songwriter ben rector

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

This week we sit down with Ben Rector and talk about his highly anticipated album, The Joy Of Music which is available now and features collaborations with award-winning rapper Snoop Dogg, iconic jazz musician Kenny G, Taylor Goldsmith from folk-rock band Dawes, as well as the YouTube sensation One Voice Children’s Choir.  Check out Ben's album here and on all streaming platforms! We are sponsored by these companies that we love. Check them out below:  Athletic Greens ▶ Athletic Greens Is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/eastfam. Better Help ▶ Visit betterhelp.com/EASTFAM and join the over 1,000,000 people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. Our Couple things listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/EASTFAM. Aura Frames ▶ Listeners can get ahead of Mother’s Day gifting this year and take $20 off on Aura’s limited-edition Matted frame by visiting auraframes.com/EASTFAM. If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. Follow us on Instagram to keep the conversation going at https://www.instagram.com/couplething... And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Subscribe for more! http://bit.ly/3rnOdNo Follow Our Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/couplething... Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Twitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/ShawnJohnson Snapchat! ▶ @ShawneyJ Follow AndrewsTwitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/AndrewDEast Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Snapchat! ▶ @AndrewDEast See more at couplethingspod.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. This is what happened. I walked in here and he had set up a guitar and I was like, if you ask him. That is not. And then we had a conversation. I was like, you cannot ask him to sing. You cannot ask him to play music. There were so many times where I would be around people and they'd be like flip.

It's the best that it has been in a long time. You really want to open this with you singing? What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Ian. Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. Today we have Ben Rector, who is the actual artist of the song Andrew was singing. Sorry, Ben. When you listen to this, you're not going to be proud of my rendition of your song. But listen, you know, you know those

people that you try to be friends with for a really long time and then you get a shot and then you blow that shot up being friends with them. That's our experience with Ben Rector. I have been a fan of his music for a long time. Yes. And you geeked out when he came to the studio. I guess he was like, babe, he's showing up, babe, he's pulling in, babe, he's walking him to the door, babe. So Ben Rector is a musician, lives in Nashville. We interviewed him solo. His wife Hillary was not able to join us.

But Ben is coming out with a new album. Actually, it just released. It's called The Joy of Music. And on it, you will find amazing songs like Living My Best Life, which is what I was just singing. He does collaborations with Snoop Dog, Dave Koss, a wide range of people. But Ben is amazing. A couple of his songs have really positively impacted my life in perspective. Like, love like this is a song that I listen to with my kids and it brings me to tears every time.

So our kids? What? Our kids? My kids specifically. Your kids. Yeah, the other ones you have. We also talk through the inspiration behind his music, the process of him creating music. how he got into it, how his wife and his family are affected by it, how he met his wife,

all fun things. This was, for all intents of purposes, a pretty casual conversation. But I do think one of my favorite parts was him describing his creative process. And he doesn't view this as like a magical event when he writes a good song. He views it as a consequence of daily practice. So anyway, I hope you find this interview interesting and insightful. and we'll also link his new album called The Joy of Music, which is out now, anywhere you listen to music down below.

But before we get started, please subscribe to this show and rate it on whatever platform that you're listening to. And thank you, Ben, so much for joining us. Without further ado, we bring you. Ben rector. Wow, Ben rector, what a pleasure it is to have you here in person. I'm so glad to be here. I feel like we should have got this stuff already

because I feel like I'm in deep on ping pong already. I'm in. Your name is a household name in our household name in our house. Oh, thank you. I said household a lot. That does feel redundant. I was, I was worried you're just going to say household name. That's a little generous when you say in your house. It is, you, Ben Rector is a household name.

Depends on the household, some household to say, yeah. Our daughter, who is too, knows you. Love it. Yes. She sings your songs. She's learning the piano with Andrew for your songs. Love it. It's just, it's just been in our house.

Tell her thanks for listening. So, yeah, let's just get the awkward introduction out of the way. First of all, we have met once before. Do you remember this? I don't. Andrew, you don't put someone on the spot like that.

No. Well, now I definitely, we're close enough to you. I thought he was going to say yes that he did remember it. Andrew Dean. But no, anyway, it was on one of your Monday morning calls.

I was dropping off. Yes, I do remember that. And I said, Ben. No, I totally do remember that. 100%.

Okay. And I interrupted. So the awkward person you remember screaming at you while you're on a business call is my husband. No. Yeah. Okay. So,

yeah. Anyways. I've started answering that question honestly, because I feel like I can always tell that people can tell if I try to like smooth it over. Like do you remember whatever? I'm always like, not always.

Sometimes I'd be like, yeah. And I can see the wheels turning with like you don't. So I've just started just being like straight up and like, I don't remember that. Not that that happens to me all the time. But I do totally remember now that you said that, you're driving a truck, right? Yeah.

So I remember I have my, I think I had my headphones on and this guy like pulled over and I was like, what's about to happen right now? I recognize you immediately. I was like, what's up, dude? Because we had talked on Instagram, and I was like, oh, awesome. Because the reason we had talked on Instagram was I, I tried and I don't know how successful I was. I'll let you determine this to write or sorry, to sing one of your songs love like this.

Which, by the way, for those listening, if you have not heard this song, we're going to link it. It brings me to tears when I listen to it with my kids. I played it on piano. You didn't make that song easy to play. It's not an easy song. Yeah. Not an easy song. But anyway, I recorded it.

or whatever, I sang it. And, uh, anyway, much respect. Thank you. And I think you said, good job. Which I'll take. And honestly, anybody that's like, I'm so bad at trying stuff that I'm not, I don't feel like great about. Like anybody that's like, hey, check this out.

I'm like, that's sick. I will say though, we have, I don't know if you've heard of a Tony for kids. It's like this recording box. You basically like put something on top of it and it plays music. But you can put whatever music, you can, like, load it, preload it. Oh. So he's preloaded his Ben Rector covers and our two-year-old plays it all the time. And I love you so much.

Sean threw that thing away. She was like, his music is genius. I take the batteries out of our kids. I'm just going to switch it someday and be like, oh, it's actually, yeah. Jane will be like, this isn't working. I'm like, dang, it's crazy. Yeah. All right, so I have been trying to get you on the show for a while.

I'm so glad that we could figure it out. We're here. I've also been trying to get your song duo as the theme song for this show. Oh, done. So I spoke with Greg, your manager. Do you great? Did he, do you, it was not like sounds great? He wasn't, no, well, it's complicated because songwriting is.

I'm going to call you out as your wife. You were really putting this guy on the spot. I'm setting this up to set up his career. This is totally fine. I did I wrote I did write do with two other guys yeah yeah I have not I haven't talked to Greg about this but I would bet what's actually happening sometimes other people's publishers can be weird about stuff yeah and well I'll you know what I'll talk to Greg after this that wasn't even that wasn't even that wasn't the theme of why I even was even bring that up Greg for my understanding yeah Greg is this legendary music manager he actually is he's big time and it was like some hot shot and like Kellogg School of Business came I came out of retirement because Ben was such a talent. He was like, I want to manage this guy. That's incredible.

So basically what happened is I stopped working with the last group that managed me. And the guy that I make or have made the last couple records with was like, you got to talk to Greg Laderman. And management is like a tough needle to thread. It's just like, yeah. Yeah, it's hard to find someone who has the bandwidth. and is available that you really want to work with. You feel like can help you.

And I had actually met Greg like three years earlier or maybe two years earlier. And he had kind of been like, oh man, I always wished we could have worked together, but I don't do music anymore. And I remember being like, dang, that was awesome. And so when I talked to John Fields, who's the guy that I make the records with, he's like, you had to talk to Greg. And it actually worked out like super serendipitously. I was initially like, oh, man, this is probably not going to work.

And it's actually been really great. like he's he's a really smart guy glad to work with him are you independent yeah so and that's i feel like it's so funny at this point i've done this for long enough that that used to be like super novel and now like a lot more people are independent and like everything else in the world like everything is changing like a million miles an hour so it's it is kind of unique to do it at a because you're so good and talented but i'm thinking no seriously To do it at a reasonably high level, fewer people are independent, but a lot more people than used to be are now independent. So basically all that means is like it sounds like it's super complicated.

It isn't just basically like I own my records and my publishing. If you sign to a record label, they own your records, you're no longer independent. They're basically like your bank and they're promoting you and stuff. Not to be like dramatic here, but that was all made very like public knowledge and we kind of got that lesson. from Taylor Swift. Yep. There you go. The whole like,

yeah. Which is great that you own your music. Yeah, it really is. And that's, so, you know,

20 years ago, 30 years ago, that's like unheard of because it would basically be like the people who control, who are the gatekeepers to everything, whether that's like having your CD in Target or like being on the radio,

those all record labels. And as everything has changed, there's, it's not as crazy. So now like, I don't know what the percentage would be, but like people that you listen to, some of them are independent.

Not most of them, but some of them. But like 10 years ago, 20 years ago, that was a lot more rare than it is now. So I have a lot of questions about your music and your lyrics because that's one of our favorite things in our house to talk about. Love it. But before you do that, I want to talk about the joy of music. It's launching. It's coming soon. Yes.

So basically it's, the record will be out March 11th and three songs are out now. And then another song, I don't think we've said this is going to come out. I think February 11th. Like in a week and a half? Yeah. Two weeks? Maybe it's like right before Valentine's Day. Okay.

It's probably, it's not, it's probably two Fridays from now. And one more song come out. And then the record is March 11th. Coming out around Valentine's is like a romantic song? It is kind of. Okay. And it's actually, it's, it's sort of romantic, but it's not like, yeah, it's, it's romantic.

It's not like a breakup song. No, no, no, no. It's called steady love. So it's, it's more like probably for people that are like in a committed relationship. more like, you know, finding a steady love instead of being just like, I don't know. And like a Cardi B like Wop type of vibe, like different. I mean, you know, there's, there's what.

Oh my. You are on a different level. I was not expecting. I'm excited to be here. I know. You're like a child. I mean, right now. Here's not a ton of WAP.

Do you listen to Wap, babe? Just just don't use that as the tag. Yeah. That's going to be it. Check out the podcast, a little bit of what. I think Greg would be like, hey, guys. Can we not publish that? How do you describe the theme of your music, Ben?

So I think people have described it this way, and I, after that, have been like, yeah, that's probably right. I think that there's like, it's usually some nostalgia, whether that's like sonic nostalgia or like the lyrical themes. but I feel like I end up usually kind of like celebrating normal life a little bit. It's kind of like, you know, ordinary life through the lens of like pop music, which I thought was an astute observation of some people that have said that. I'm never like, I'm not like, I'm going to set out to write that kind of music.

That's just like what kind of comes out. So, yeah, that's probably what I would say. We've had the privilege of interviewing a few different artists. And I'm fascinated by lyrics. because we have talked to artists before who necessarily didn't have to like connect with their lyrics. It was just kind of they shopped around and no matter what they were going through in life, they would sing about whatever. Yep. And then we've talked to artists who everything is personal. Everything's a direct reflection. What would you say where do you land? I would say I'm

probably like 80, 20, maybe 70, 30 towards like real life autobiographical. I don't, um, there's almost nothing that I've released that's just like oh that's just like yeah has nothing to do with me but a lot of it might not be like my life exactly I would say it's almost like if I was like a painter it's not necessarily like this is my backyard like yeah beautiful painting of mountains you wouldn't be like oh your backyard's lovely but like it's maybe a way that I see the world or or way that I like observe things um but it's rare like the only example of that would probably be like range rover which is a couple of songs.

I wanted to release that song but I knew it wasn't going to fit on this record because this record has like a strong theme that's like real and I was like everyone's just going to be like what is this but I just thought it was so fun but so generally I really like it I'm glad thank you for saying it.

We had it on repeat for a while honestly I was so I wrote that and then another guy that I wrote it with recorded it and I was like I kind of want to record this too because I just I thought it was so fun but yes that that's an that's not that's kind of like me like having fun with the topic but most of the time it's like related or like tangentially related to my life probably so like

the song making money like and you like would just kind of be purely like it's just that's something that like you don't relate to so i'll i'll be real that's actually that's actually like uh i'm joking some in that song, but I'm also like being like a little bit honest with like some of the, I'm not being honest about like, I can't remember the lyrics. It's been a long time. I can sing them for you. I know. Please don't. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. No, but so that's, that's kind of like a funny, like, you know, that's me like being a little bit sarcastic. I'm not like, yep, this is actually what I think about this stuff. Yeah. But I'm going to be a little bit honest in that song i uh shan's dream car is a rangerover so i don't know

i don't know what kind of really i know i'm very well aware it's just no no hard feelings anybody uh i here's why i think i relate to your music so much because we in a way different sense you know we create videos nostalgia might be the right word of like family and like i don't know It's like the vlogging world. And your music is kind of the more distilled, uh, musical, some would say better version of, of what we do. Seriously, because it's like you capture in such a beautiful way, like love like this, that moment of a whole, like holding your, your child early in the morning.

It's like that's what we, that feeling of this is what it's about is what we try to communicate and you do it so beautifully. Yeah, that's really nice of you. And I, my thing is. I feel like I'm not great at like I don't some people like their appeal like what they're good at is like I'm like so awesome such a badass check me out like I just don't have that card to play really and I think with my music I want people to be like oh like I'm in that song like that's like that is about me and I feel like there's a ton of people that make great art that is you know about other stuff or about like maybe more aspirational like we're going out Friday night whatever and to me I'm just not there's nothing wrong with that but i just feel like i'm not going to do an especially great job of that and i feel like there's not a ton of people that are like hey what if there's like pop music about like you know real life yeah i i don't see a ton of people doing that and

so that's that's all that i'm really good at so not saying i'm really good at it that's all i'm like adept at today's episode is brought to you by athletic greens you know we swear by this we use it literally every day we have gotten every friend of ours hooked on it we We've gotten my parents hooked on it. We promote it. We basically live and breathe athletic greens. We have a couple of people staying with us. We woke up and had a collective athletic greens supplement time together.

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vary by race. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. slash Y Annex. Okay. Our show is a couple things. Yep. I have to know about your beautiful wife, Hillary. She is the best. I mean that wholeheartedly. I feel like I just like her. I like being around her. She's very smart. She's funny. not like let me like tell you jokes funny but she's just like really quick um does not care that i do music at all would be just as happy if i was like i'm a gardener i mean i think she'd want to be like can we like pay for stuff but um yeah she's great she's she's smarter than i am and she's a great mom uh our life is total chaos right now so she's doing because you have we have a four-year-old daughter and we had twins a year and a half this is andrew's dream in life is to have

Twins. Is it? You know, it was funny. I usually try to be pretty straightforward. And people early on were like, how was it? Or how is it? And I'm just like, it's bad. It is so bad.

They're really cute now. But for a while, I was like kind of joking, kind of not joking. I wouldn't say it was bad. People would be like, how is it? I'd be like, I'd recommend having kids one at a time. But she's done so great. I, yeah, she's awesome. But, yeah, our life right now is really chaotic.

It was crazy. A toddler and twins is a lot. Yeah. I mean, toddler and twins is different. It really is. Are they crawling or walking now? Oh, they're just, they're everywhere. They're like, they are all over.

Actually, I didn't say this in social media, not that this is like something. But Roy actually broke his, like, two of the bones in his leg because I dropped him carrying him out the stairs. And so he's been clunking around in a boot. Oh, no. I was mortified. It was, like, at the very top of the stairs and, like, the last two steps, I just, like, caught my foot.

And, you know, he, like, reflexibly do that. So basically, he's, he's totally fine, but you can hear him. That's the only good thing about the boot. You can hear him. Where is he? He's up there. Bert is just, like, stealth mode. You're always, like, has he run out of the house?

Roy is just, like, clunking around. But they're really, they're really great kids. but right now our whole life is just like make it to 8 p.m. Uh-huh. And then you're like, and then you get an hour before you just pass out. Exactly. So we'll watch like one,

maybe two episodes of we were watching Succession. Now we're watching Ozark. And it's just like, that's it. And then I wake up in the morning and do it again. So she is who I would choose to do all of that with, even though it's like kind of a wild season. So you being the like super artsy,

thoughtful, creative guy that you, you are. I'm curious, how did you propose to Hillary? It was. I also, I also feel like there's a little, there's a little bit of like a thing when you're an artist. Everyone's like, you're probably so romantic. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, like, I'm not good at gift giving. I care about her a lot, but I'm not like a gestures guy. I would, I wish I was better at that. Maybe I should just try to be better at that. Um, there's like this little chapel at the University of Arkansas called the Rockhouse. and we like put a bunch of candles in there. I think we were like going for a walk maybe after dinner.

And it was like, oh, let's go in here. Then I propose, no big deal. But it wasn't, I feel, I wish I could clear that up. I feel like people often, I'll see in comments being like, assuming that I'm just this like deeply romantic person. And I'm like average romantic. I don't know. A hot question from social media based off your recent album.

The, I don't know. the character that's featured on the album is maybe like a bloated elmo would be a fair way of describing it's like it's like it's 700 pound elmo first of all I want to know the origin story behind that because I see him everywhere yes is it Hillary dressed up though okay so this is it's going to be hard it's going to be hard to believe this I know I know it's going to be like I don't believe you. What? Joy is this, like, giant, kind of like a Muppet. So basically, I know it's hard to believe there's nobody in there.

It's just joy. I know, I know that's like, that's ridiculous. And I'll give you the origin story. Basically, I knew the record was going to be called the Joy of Music. And I started thinking about, like, a couple of the songs, I was like, I got to make videos for these. And kind of through, like, the, like, pandemic when nothing was going on, I just kept kind of like workshopping it and then I was like oh man I want to like what if I had like a mascot for this record and what if it was like a big like Muppet so basically we talked to I was like who's

the best at this Jim Henson's creature shop they're the best at that they built they build Sesame Street and the Muppets and like every movie that has anything like that so contacted them and they were like we could do it but it's really expensive and I was like maybe somebody else could do it I looked all over the internet learned all about mascots it's like nobody else can do it called Jim Henson's Creature Shop back like let's do this drew sketches, their guy drew sketches back and forth back and forth and they started

building a thing that looked like Joy and we got to the very end and they were like you know what's crazy you're not going to believe this there's a guy that looks just like this and he lives in Nashville I was like I wish you just told me this earlier oh my gosh so basically Joy lives in Nashville sometimes things out of my house and that's the story

very large much larger in person than you would expect His eyes kind of are a little unpredictable. Yeah, they kind of spin around. Which do you have more fun with, writing the song or doing, like, the music video for living my best life? Yes. I like, my favorite thing is the writing.

That's like my, like, I would do that for free. That's the part that I'm like, just would do for fun. Everything else is a little bit more like, you know, like, I have to like work myself up for that. I really enjoyed making the videos. It was really intense process. but my favorite part of the whole thing if it was like nobody cares about your music anymore

no one streams your music anymore you have to go get a job I would like still write songs like for fun I would actually not probably perform I picked a terrible line of work for that I feel like most people would perform for free and don't like writing songs I'm kind of the opposite and I do enjoy it but like during the pandemic

if you'd been like are you really missing shows I'd be like no no wow do you write have you written all of your songs that's awesome yeah gosh you write for others some yeah and like i'll do it mostly when someone like when an artist is like hey i want to write with you for my thing okay um and i do that sometimes but uh the people that like write every day just generally like for hopefully someone will record the song that's a it is a it's like a it's like a sport and it's almost like really it's more like a league where it's like you like put in a bunch of time and hope to like slowly like

trickle towards the top and I just don't really have I'm doing like playing shows and like doing my own thing so most of the time if I'm writing for somebody else it's like because a person is like I want to write with you for my record which I do that but not as much as I write for myself are any of your songs about your wife yes yeah I would say they are not all of them though like some of them are sort of like an amalgamation of like kind of her kind of love in general not like another person but like if I only wrote just about like my personal life I feel like very quickly you'd be like I don't listen to this anymore because it's just like there's not that not that complicated of a thing so yeah I would say like they're all she's in all of them

not every single one is like this is about Hillary rector my wife yeah trying to figure out what the word amalgamation means but uh pulling things together i think i use that right i don't know edit that out if i didn't you did uh sean and dave cause go way back by the no way he's one of my favorite human beings how oh oh uh i don't know if i want to admit this um we were judges together for the miss america pageant oh my gosh 12 years ago i'm going to text him that he is the kindest person he's the best Ever. He's a great guy.

And no joke. So that was back in 2009, 2010, a couple years ago. Two years ago. Two years ago. I met him. We were on a random flight in California. And I kept looking over and I was like, this guy looks so familiar. But it had obviously been 10 years.

And I kept looking. I kept looking. And I mean, I was creeping, hardcore. I was looking at his backpack and I saw a saxophone, like a picture of one or whatever and I was like oh my gosh I was like Dave and he looked over and he's like Sean I was like oh my gosh he's the best and I feel like um I feel like a number of people you meet in entertainment everybody is nice but if you were like do you want to spend a bunch of time with this person sometimes I'm like yeah and I feel like he is one of the people I was like I want to be

friends with you like right now yeah and I feel like that's so rare among like entertainers and not That's, that's way too harsh. You know what I mean. Yes. I feel like there's a lot of people that are like, you're super nice. But if it's like, do you want to like go get a meal after this? Yeah. You'd probably both be like, nah, I don't know.

And he's just like such a kind guy and it was so fun to work with. Like I just walked away being like, I want to be friends with that guy. Yeah. And honestly, musically, like as good as anyone is at anything. He is like, truly a master. Super good. What is, what is Ben's creative process? Do you have like a, do you have like a method?

and it seems like you enjoy the collaborative side of things as well. Yes, creative process. It's always like a sliding scale for me of like inspiration and discipline. And anytime it's too far on one side of the other, it doesn't work for a long time. So I do it every day like a job, like when I'm home, if I'm out of any shows or anything. Like when I was writing, like I write five days a week. I'm like, and I think what I wish I could like say to everyone who's like, I'm like kind of interested in songs. writing or like whatever I wish I could just be like people approach creativity or creative

professions like they're like magical and I want to be like it's a professional sport it is not magical it's not anymore magical than like watching like a major league pitcher throw like a great curveball it's like that's crazy trick you can do and it's like what's not a trick I've just been practicing this a long time so like I just I do it every day and I try to like sharpen my tools all the time and then sometimes that provides like a window of like wow this is a great song that came out and sometimes I'm just like grinding it out and nothing good is happening. Do you keep them all though? Do you keep all even the throwaways? Yeah so a really good songwriter in town said this better than probably I would have said it. He was like I don't know if I'm

a better songwriter than I used to be. I just chase fewer. I think he said red herrings. Basically like I don't finish every single song I start. It's almost like you get a better sense of like what has high potential. So like I'm cycling through ideas a ton. So I'm cycling through ideas a ton. So If I, like, opened up my voice memos, there's, like, a billion. But, like, some of them are, like, an eighth of a song. And I, like, work on it for, like, an hour. And I'm, like, this isn't very good. So you'll, you'll pull out the voice memo app and just play the tune.

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, I stopped using the normal one. I used this, like, terrible app that I never should have that, like, doesn't work very well. Yeah, it's like. Oh, my gosh. Holy smoke. I mean, it's, it's right there. I've, I've had this phone for, like,

Like not that long. If there's one you like, do you save it? Is that just like one you know to go back to? It just kind of, it just like, it just keeps rattling around in your head. It's like, I don't know if you play wordal. Everyone's doing that now. Wordle. Once, what is, it's like, whatever you're into, like once it gets in your head,

it's just like going to rattle around until it's done. I don't, there's not very many that I go back and I'm like, oh, I totally forgot about this. and then I finished it and it's really good. Usually you're like spidey senses for what is good. They get sharper. And so if you're like, I'm on to something, you're like...

You're hooked. And it's honestly like sometimes it can be bad and like a little obsessive. Like I have to stop working like maybe like three or four because I can't sleep because like if I if I... Three or four in the morning? No, three or four in the afternoon. Oh, oh my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. No, but like it's that kind of thing. It's just like I can't. stop, like, trying to put it together. So you work from home? Yep. Well, there's like, I have a separate. Yeah. It's like a separate space that you have to go outside to get into. So do you guys have boundaries or rules within your household of because of the creative

process can, it's not nine to five? Do you have like boundaries around when you can, when you have to stop? Yeah. I try to treat it like, it is like a work day, basically. Like I wake up. I'll get like Jane's breakfast. we get the kids up and then at 8.30

I go out to my office and then I'll come back in for lunch like whenever and then I'm done when they get up from their naps at like five. Nice. So, I mean, I'll stop at like 3.30. Yeah, like try to ride the Peloton or something. But that's nice.

And you know, Hillary's great in his understanding like if I'm like, well gosh, this is a great idea. She's like, you can't work on stuff. But like for me being present and for everybody, I try not to like. And honestly, just for like, I've had periods of time when I was younger where I didn't really have any boundaries

and it's just I don't end up creating long term good stuff because I get like so frazzled and burned out and it's helpful for me to be like hey like set this down pick it up again tomorrow I don't know if this is a possible question to answer but whatever the reason do you have a favorite song you've created oh um I like there's a song called The Men That Drive Me Places

that I like that one a pretty decent them out, but it's also it's not like an upbeat, like, fun song. If someone was like, play us one song, I've never heard of you, I'd probably play that one. But I don't, I mean, it could be anything. I could maybe give a different answer tomorrow.

Have your experience burnout? Yeah, yeah. For sure. How do you recover? Just time off? I just feel like I have to, like, recalibrate a little bit. I have to, like, try to,

like, I'll, like, ground myself from writing. Because that's what I'm saying, like a sliding scale between discipline and inspiration, like if I get too far on the discipline side where I'm just like, I'm doing this all the time and nothing good is happening, I usually will have to step back and be like, hey, at this point,

trying hard looks like giving yourself like a second to like step away. Because then what will happen is like, if nothing good is happening and I'm not going to write a song for a week, that's usually when something just like pops out. So like I would say it just depends on what part is burning me out. Touring stuff is hard because, like, everybody gets burned out on that. But, yeah, I just try to, like, not get, like, out of balance in any sense. And at some level, it's like, well, like, you're not going to do anything sustainably if you're, like, really out of balance.

So, like, if I start to feel that a little bit, I'll try to, like, dial it back. It's hard. I don't know. I love the description of creativity as a discipline. I don't know if you ever heard of the book, The War of Art. Yeah. Dude, he talks about the same concept of. You know, like John Williams, a composer who wrote Harry Potter and Jaws and everything.

He's like, every day shows up and write something and like that prepares him for writing something great. And man, I feel like I so wish that people, and I get it, creativity is weird and it's different than like, I don't know, like building something with your hands, like building a house or something. I just totally wish I could be like, hey, this is a professional sport. That's all it is. And I think sometimes creative people like put up a little bit of like a facade. kind of like, oh, now I'm so spacey, whatever. And the more people that I met who were like heroes of mine is different brands. But like once you like look under the hood, it's the same.

They're like the equivalent of like a marathon runner. They do it in their own way all the time. They're relentless. They're like there's no one I've met that is just so talented that they can make it happen. And every field is like that. Like talent is like, you know, you're like entry fee. And after that's like who's going to like. work the hardest in this and I truly really and truly have not met an exception to that rule

I really have that does it sustainably there could be people that like magically hit a hole in one and could never do it again but the people that I like respect and I'm like you're really good at this they're all the same and it's different flavors but like surfer dude who's just like man I just love this you know and then you're like hey like cool like let me like get to know you a little better it's like I write every day yeah just like there you go wow This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar rally,

the ultimate off-road challenge. Learn more at landrover.ca. Today's episode is also brought to you by a life changer of a company, and that's BetterHelp. I couldn't agree more, babe. I wish that BetterHelp had been an option during my career, because I love the fact that it's available to everyone everywhere. BetterHelp actually helps to assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. Yes. So BetterHelp, if you guys aren't aware, is a professional counseling done securely online. They are awesome. You can even start communicating in under 48 hours with your matched therapist. It's not a crisis line. It's not self-help. It is professional counseling done securely online. Like I said, he'll get timely and thoughtful responses. Plus, you can schedule weekly videos. or phone sessions, so you won't ever have to sit in an uncomfortable waiting room, as with

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did you sing oh come on i thought that was going to be original no i'm kidding a couple people have asked me did you sing at your own wedding i'm just like no i did not i didn't do that i don't even remember what music there was and that's that feels weird like I should have like it should be super symbolic but I feel like on some level some of music to me is like it's important part of my life but it doesn't like invade everything outside of the job part of it like I wasn't like I'm making the playlist I was just like yeah do you have your artist I do probably the Beatles I mean that's about a psychotic I know it feels feels like a cop out but it actually is that I also I also love like all sorts of just like guilty pleasure pop music

like I feel like every musician yeah every every musician always answers that question hilariously they're like I like lightning Hopkins and a bunch of jazz stuff you never heard of it's like you listen to Dave Matthew Matthews yeah yeah well you won a John Lennon songwriting contest I did I had no business entering that and then I you obviously did you won it apparently I did I was a college freshman I think and I was just like wow that is very sick I don't know I it's weird to me that I even entered it that doesn't really seem like me but I did of all the things that you've accomplished I mean Ben you've been we have all your accolades right here and it's a lot American Idol all in the generous world of dance of all the places you've been experiences you've had

awards you've won what are you most proud of from a career sense my career? You know what? Real talk? I need to really sharpen these answers because I feel like with the record coming out. I'm going to be doing things like this again. What am I most proud of? You know what? This is going to feel like such a cop-out, but it's not. This is my honest answer. I'm most proud of that I think whenever it is that I stopped doing this, that I'll be like, I think I tried my very hardest and put like a good thing out into the world. It was like, honest and good and it wasn't cheaply made it was like a good product in a world of like fast

kind of like cheap things if I was like making chairs I'm like this chair is a good chair people are going to be like I like that chair I just I hope I'm like proud of the work I did because I feel like any of the accolade or award stuff is good but it never feels like you're done it's like I never thought this happened and it happens and you're like and there's always more It's like, well, but I didn't, like, sell out of football stadium. At some point, it's just like, I'm glad that some cool stuff has happened, but I think I'm more glad that I'll be like, hey, I'm really proud of the work I did. Would you just, is your brand, would you say like Christian?

The reason I'm asking, because you got some pushback on social media about a cuss word and a song. Yes, I said grown-ass man. It was a little off-brand. It's just interesting. Like, I've always had the thought of, it's so much harder to say. I'm a Christian artist and then you throw a cuss word in and it's like the world ends as opposed if you're Miley Cyrus and like you see amazing grace it's like wow look she's totally that's that's that's a great observation um yeah so when I started out it was like it was they were like really

tied together uh I am a Christian and when I was like coming out of college it was I got that question like all the time and I think now I've probably like people that listen to my music I don't think it's like a mystery all the people are still like are you but um I also think there's the other side of that where it's like my the way I view like faith or the world or whatever has changed a lot since I was like 19 or whatever for example I don't have any problem saying grown ass man in a song like I swear sometimes like I'm I'm I am Am a grown-ass man, I can do that. And so part of me, too, is, like, I never would want to be, like, vulgar or, like, just

say stuff, like, to just, like, make a scene or something. But I also think one thing, one reason that I was like, I don't want to make quote-unquote Christian music is because some people do a great job of this and are, like, made to do it. But I've always been like, I just want to be able to be, like, an authentic, all the way, normal real person and I sometimes get a little scared of if I ever got like pigeonholed to like you can only talk about these things I'd be like well like I disagree with some of this and like I think a lot of other people do too and I would love to exist just like as a normal person and I feel like there aren't a ton of like non-Christian artists who are like I'm also going to talk about faith some

and there aren't a ton of Christian artists who are like I'm gonna say grown ass man because guess what we all do that like I want to just be the guy that's like I want to just be the guy that's like I'm beholden to no one, but I just get to, like, say what I think about stuff. And so I would say I'm not a Christian artist, like, trademark, but, like, that's a part of my worldview. And honestly, man, I thought a lot about that because I was like, I know, not because I'm worried about it being inappropriate. I just know there's people that are like, I got a kid and we listen to your music and that bothers me. And it's just like, I get it, man, but I made this record for you and not for your kid. So, like, we made, like, a kids-in-the-car version of the song.

Yeah. Because I knew people were going to be, like, kind of bummed. And there's, my wife is so funny. I'm outing her. She's, she is, like, she is wonderful. And, yeah, she's always just like, oh, man, those people. I know, I know. Because I, if you follow that line of logic, like,

what I really would like to say to those people is just, like, I get it. Yeah. I don't, Jane was walking around the house, seeing grown-ass man, and I was like, oh, Jane, come on. But I'm also just like, if you're really worried about your kid hearing grown-ass man in a song that's about like finding peace in your life and like contentment, then just you'd better buy them some head, some earmuffs. And like maybe just like keep them in the living room for the rest of their life

because they're going to, people hear the word ass. People can say the word ass from them. And I, my personal thing is just like I'd rather my kids just be like, they'd be like, Dad, you say grown-house, man? I do, and it's just not that big a deal. Yeah. But I'm, I also understand that, like, some people are just like, I don't want to mess with that.

I don't want to have to have that conversation. It's like, that's fine. Yeah. I think it's a good approach. Yeah. I agree. I agree with that. We had the whole philosophical conversation when we,

he brought up that you got backlash. I was like, come on. But no Christian's perfect. Are you kidding? Right. And again, I think, I don't know. What I would hope my kids would glean. from like whatever faith Hillary and I have

like I would rather it be like something that can exist in real life and not be like hey this is only gonna work if you like stay in this tiny box and plug your ears I wouldn't be like I mean if someone's like super into Christianity I'd be like does that seem like it's gonna work well like probably not so I just like you know get the kids out there I don't know oh this is it the day you finally ask for that big promotion you're in front of your mirror with your Starbucks

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Remember, get it on this link only at auraframes.com forward slash EastFam. We'll also link it down below, and let's get back to it. Do you hope that any of your three children become artists? Wow. No one has ever asked me that. Yes. I got fun. This is a loaded question because my mom was not stoked that I wanted to be a musician, which I totally understand.

Interesting. I think nobody in my family is, does any creative work really. It's like super out of the box for my like extended family. Do you think that's just a stereotype of like artistry? No, I just, it wasn't my dad. worked at a bank and my mom was a psychologist and no it wasn't like oh it's like your uncle Ronnie reel into music like that just it was a weird like lightning strike thing so I think it was understandably was like nerve-wracking for them that I was like hey like I'm gonna try to be a

musician because like nobody from Oklahoma does that and they're like oh man like you're bright you should do something else which I totally get that I think my what I'd say about my kids there is a part of me that's nervous because in my view it is like a professional sport that they would want to do it and not maybe have the like aptitude to do it at a professional level because they're around me doing it they're just like yeah people just do this when in reality it's like oh like it's like people just play in the NFL it's like I mean like not everybody like you need really fast and big and stuff so and I and and and they're maybe like totally have the aptitude specifically for music to do that um that's my only fear

but i wouldn't be like don't do this i think for me to do it i didn't grow up front of anybody that's musical so i was like i really want to do this and i feel like in nashville like throw a rock yeah and like hit people that are doing it semi-professionally so i just want to make sure that they're like really want to do it and i would hope that they you know would have the ability to do but I don't know. We'll see. What? So this is your 10th album?

Honestly, I can never answer that question. I don't know because there's a few albums that were released like before I was like really doing it that are like I was in college and have an album, but it's kind of not. So I would usually count into the morning as my first record, but that still means it's a lot. So whatever your notes say is more right than I'm going to be. I have 11 on my notes. Well, but then there's like the live album, which I don't know. Christmas stuff,

it's a lot. I don't know what it is. By the way, the Thanksgiving song is gold. But what do you hope to accomplish now, or maybe even with this most recent album? I hope, these are good questions.

These are very good questions. I hope, I think it's a really good record. I think it's the best one I've made. And so I just hope that it like gets the shot to do whatever. it's supposed to do. I don't even know what that is.

I don't have a super clear, like, there's not another mile marker that's like, I just really want to, that thing. I don't know what that is. But yeah, I hope that it, like, is seen as, like, a really great work. And I don't know exactly what that means.

But I don't know. We'll see. I'm excited for it. Me too. Can you give us a teaser of, like, a force? talked about this. You cannot ask that question. Totally. No, no, we talked about this. I'll give you a teaser. What? Like, play a song?

Just like maybe like sing a little bit. Oh, I can't, I can't do that because it's not even going to be fun. You're going to be like, oh, no, no. Also, I sing so terribly loud. Your microphone would explode. And I told him that was a thousand percent off limits. Oh, my gosh. I'll send you a couple songs. You don't want to hear me just sing. This is what happened. I walked in here and he had set up a guitar and I was like, if you were, ask him that is not for that that was just because and then we had a conversation i was like you cannot ask him to sing you cannot ask him to play music i'll i'll i'll sing the songs really and truly i think so loud it would be uncomfortable he'd be like really yeah that's interesting i guess i'm gonna have

we're gonna talk about this later okay it's like i we've talked about this coming from like professional athletics there are so many times where i would be around people and they'd be like flip and i'm like i'm not just a i i can't just do it i i grew up with a kid who's really new gymnastics he was like very competitive wanted to go to the olympics and we would always ask him to do that yeah and his mom was always like matt you know you should you don't we don't want to get hurt and you're always like but it's the same thing like it's your profession it's your it's your it's your art if i if i could do something right now that i thought you'd be like that was really good i would do it i just think you'd be like oh cool i think we should wait to get the album it's going to be

genius. I'll send you a couple songs. I'm excited. It'll be better than me singing right now. Can't wait. All right. Well, you can check out Ben's new album coming out March 11th called the joy of music. Ben, thank you for joining us today. Thank you guys. This is great. I look forward to future golf outings, ping pong matches and you're going to be being ping pong, aren't you? She'll be straight. You are, right? It's one of those things that you can't, it's, it's hard. You never know what you're walking into. Like, if someone says I'm good at ping pong, they might be good in their little circle. That, yeah, I, I think you're probably good. Could you give yourself a handicap, like a golf handicap?

No, can you? What? Is that a thing? Yeah, like in golf, you'd be like, I'm a three and like that kind of, you're like, okay, I understand that. I'm probably like a 12 handicap in ping pong. No, you're probably better than that. What do you say is? What do you think Ben is?

Oh, Ben's, Ben Crane. Ben's probably a scratch, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So wait. So maybe we should play. Maybe we'd be equal. Yeah.

I'm probably in like, I'm, I don't even understand the words you're saying. Yeah, well. I don't understand handicaps. You need to, you don't even understand football. Basically, how good are you at golf? Yeah. I got to say, I really appreciate your music.

I, and now I appreciate your approach to life. It's, it is, like, because you're big time. No, seriously, like, you are so, I don't know, balanced or like, it's just, you do it because you love it. And it's not because you want to be number one on the billboard charts or like that's your goal. It's like you do it because you love it. So I think that's admirable. Thanks so much, man.

You guys are great. This is awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. Tell Hillary, we say hello. I will. And if you need a babysitter, we'll take them off your hands anytime. Whoa.

I wouldn't put that on it. Maybe the only time that happened you'd be like no things. I might actually ask for that because I need him to know that. How about this? You guys should just come over and just just just audit the process. The twins. Yeah, sweet. Whoa!

That's heavy too. I got you. Dude, I was looking at it, I was like, oh my gosh. I feel like it's secure.