Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 135 | Steven Curtis Chapman + Mary Beth

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

Today we interviewed Steven Curtis Chapman, The most awarded artist in the Christian music industry! He’s sold over 10 million albums, has won five Grammy awards & 59 Dove awards. In addition to all of his career success, Steven is an incredibly loyal husband and father and strives to always put his family first. We loved having Steven on the show to talk about his upcoming album, Still, which is out TODAY, and talk about his family life, which includes non-profit work he does with his wife and kids. We were pretty starstruck for this one, we have known Steven‘s songs for years so it was really cool to have him on the show!! Learn more about Steven ▶ here https://stevencurtischapman.com/ Follow Steven here! ▶ https://www.instagram.com/stevencurtischapman/ Stream 'Still' ▶ https://scc.lnk.to/stillig Follow Mary Beth here! ▶https://www.instagram.com/mbchap232/ Learn more about Mary here ▶ https://www.marybethchapman.com/ This episode is sponsored by the two brands we love below. Check them out! AG1 ▶ Athletic Greens Is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit https://athleticgreens.com/eastfam to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance! Boll & Branch ▶ Try the sheets that will make fall the coziest season of the year. Get 15% off your first set of sheets and free shipping when you use promo code EASTFAM at https://www.bollandbranch.com/ Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Twitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/ShawnJohnson Snapchat! ▶ @ShawneyJ Follow AndrewsTwitter ▶ttp://www.twitter.com/AndrewDEast Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Snapchat! ▶ @AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. What's up, everybody. Welcome back to Couple Things with Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. Today we had the biggest honor of interviewing Mary Beth Chapman and her husband, Stephen Curtis Chapman. Take a seat. Buckle your seat

belts because this one was a ride. I love this. 49 number ones. If you've ever turned on the radio or heard a song, you've probably heard of one of Stephen Curtis Chapman's songs. Yes. And I love that it's Stephen Curtis Chapman. Yeah, we talk about how that came to be. But we also sit down with his wife, Mary Beth, and the two of them are amazing. I aspire to be there, to be honest with you. Their banter, they're dynamic, their sauce is hysterical. But their love through it all is really profound.

I actually think they are us. I would like to say so. So this was a fun thing. Stephen Curtis and I connected through kind of a mission organization that my brother runs. We sat down for breakfast. And I learned that in the Chapman family, Sean Johnson is a name that they've circulated because they have a daughter with the initials, S.J.

Yep. So they used to call the daughter the real SJ and this SJ, the fake SJ. So anyway, that was kind of a fun blending point. We talked about that. We also talk about their organization, the show hope organization, which helps families through the adoption process in a lot of different ways.

And so if you want to learn more about that, we'll link it. We'll also link Stephen Curtis's latest album that just rolled out. It's called Still. It just came out like this week. Yeah. Wait, it just came out. It just came out.

Wait, no, it's out just now. Yeah. That's huge. Go get it. We talked through so many different topics. They have so much wisdom, so much insight about the roller coasters of marriage and life and how they overcame massive struggles and hardship and loss. Truly, an honor to talk to them.

And one of my favorite topics, if you care, is we discuss the concept of what is it look like to be ambitious as a Christian artist. I loved his take on it. Anyway, if you want to find out more about Stephen Curtis Chapman, his wife, Mary Beth, his latest album called Still, his organization called Show Hope Organization. We'll link it all down below. Thank you, Stephen Curtis and Mary Beth for sitting down with us. This was a real treat, and we hope you enjoy it. Let's roll into it. Stephen Curtis and Mary Beth Chapman. This is an honor. Thank you for joining us. You are very welcome. So fun. Honor is ours. Big, big family. of, you know, all you both do, you know, watched you, you know, snap mini, many, three to three,

I saw all three snaps. I mean, they were iconic. Wow. I got. Wait, I don't even know the answer to this question. How, like in an average game, how many balls would you snap, like four? Well, thank you for making this interview about me, Sean, because that's what I was really. It's just really, it is all about you.

This is. This is the end of each. This is your life. Isn't it to a certain extent you don't want to be on the field? No, because when I'm doing field goals and extra points too. So I would say 10 plays a game, though. Okay. But that's beside the point.

So Stephen and I, can I just call you Stephen? Please. This is the most first names I think we've ever had on our show. So that's exciting. Yeah. Is Curtis your middle name? Yes. Curtis is my middle name.

name. Okay. Cause. Yeah. Okay. There's a whole story on that. If you want to know, you know, I can tell you. But because why Stephen Curtis Chapman?

Because I, I... It always sounds like he's in trouble. Yes. Yeah. Get in here. Your middle names. I mean, we all know. That's why, you know, you know, God gives you middle names is so you can know,

okay, I'm getting really close to the line. You're all three names. Steve Curtis Chapman. I was, yes, I was Steve Chapman for, you know, as long as I was, you know, out of trouble for the better part of I guess about 22 years or something 20 years and then I moved to Nashville started writing songs started you know getting involved in the music business and my publisher and would be record label kind of set me down and said look there's another Steve Chapman there's a Steve and Annie Chapman who actually still I think still do music um together

kind of husband and wife and um they it's they're getting there's confusion because they hear Steve Chapman and they assume it's Steve. And then when I start talking about my wife Mary Beth and these guys had like a marriage ministry kind of thing. So it's like, what happened to Annie? Did you guys, you know, did that? He's talking about Mary Beth now. What's that?

It just got really confusing. So they said, we got to do something to differentiate yourself from this other guy. And so it literally, it was like, do you want to, you got to change your name. And so that's a weird thing because I am as, you know, hillbilly country boy it's like trying to you know make something out of this so it's like Curtis we could call you Curtis and somehow that sounded like a I need to be an R&B singer or something you know Curtis Chapman you know smooth jazz so I was like that doesn't fit so well we can call you you know just you know Stephen is that enough different Stephen Chapman is like no

they're still going to get confused so here we are the most natural thing I could come up with was Stephen Curtis does this use my whole name Stephen Curtis Chapman it's a lot some mouthful and at the time I didn't think through will I ever be signing autographs someday which now I've signed many many Stephen Curtis Chapman I'm like why didn't I go with Toby Mac or Carmen or something you know super simple just to clarify is your is Stephen like you're born God given name yes okay I wasn't sure of like you just added an end no no no no it was Stephen with a V and then and then you needed a different name okay no it was Stephen with a V.

And even that's confusing because most of the time, more often than not when we'll drive up to a marquee on a concert, you know, tonight in concert. P.H. Stephen, S-T-E-P-H-E-N. It's so funny. I'm like, for whatever reason, that's the default. People want to go to the P.H. I don't think I would ever spell Stephen with a P.H.

Yeah. I would say, Stefan. I see. Yeah, that's how I would. Thank you. I'm no. But for whatever reason, people want to make, they figure it's more proper or something. I don't know.

Did you ever go by Mary Chapman? I know by Beth. Really? And my family still, they still call me Beth. Bethy. Bethy. So speaking of names, one of the things that Stephen and I talked about at breakfast was S.J. Yes.

Because I know there's some history in your family with S.J. And maybe like, you know, we got some. The name, not myself. Yes. No, it is about you. Well, it is. So really it is. Today it's going to be all about you.

but you have gymnastics in the family yeah so that yeah so that that's a odd connection with you all is um you know our local gym here let it shine gymnastics our oldest daughter shout out shout out you're welcome tanner you know shout out but our our our youngest stevie joy chapman named after her dad steve with a why it's not i.e just um started as a little you know she's from You know, she's adopted from China, and we started her in gymnastics when she was four. And right out of the gate, Tim and Tanner, you know, just really recognized, you know, she's going to be a little power pack. You know, she's all the four foot eight today, you know, full grown. So she went all the way up through level eight and then came to us one day and said, you know what, this is a lot.

And I want to shift and do co-ed, all the stunting co-ed cheer stuff. That's awesome. And so she shifted and started training to do that. But so her brothers, all her growing up and all of her competitions and, you know, all of the stuff, you used to call her, you know what, you're the real SJ. Because it's about the time you were having all of your success. And so I think it was Will Franklin that coined the phrase, you're the real SJ. So forever we called her, like we literally called her the real SJ.

That's awesome. That's awesome. And never ever a million years thinking we'd ever meet you and get to tell you that story. Because I'm trying to put it together, like how old the Olympics year that was your... 2008. 2008. And so that was, yeah, that was when she was right in the heart of her gymnastics, you know. She would have been, you know, five, six.

So she, you know, just all the little girls that just watch and say, I'm going to do that someday. That you've inspired. And she was one of them. And so then to get to call her the real, you know, our brother's going, yeah, you're the real S. You know, we'd go to these little competitions. And, you know, we'll be like, get out to hear the real SJ. Show them. Show him who's the real SJ.

Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. Yeah. I will say something that I just heard, too, the Stevie Joe. Joy. Joy, yes. Naming her after you.

We did the same thing with our daughter. Oh, really? Andrew and our daughter is Drew. Yes. We love it. The idea of naming a daughter after her daddy is, like, the sweetest thing to me. It's the best. It's the best.

I love it. And her friends now, everyone at Alabama, for whatever reason, They all call her Steve. That's awesome. So everybody's like, hey, Steve. On the team, on her, on her cheer team, and all of her friends. It's gotten shortened to Steve. I love that.

Yeah. So she's Steve at Alabama. A strong name. And our son is also named after we named Caleb, Caleb Stevenson for Stevens' son. Wow. Oh, that's awesome. He's our first son. Nice.

He didn't quite understand it all. And so when he was growing up, he loved the name. He loved the name Elvis. He used to talk. all the time about... He had an African gray parrot named Elvis for a while, yeah. He had an African gray parrot named Elvis eventually, but he always talked about naming one of his sons, Elvis.

Never do that. Yeah, he said, I'm going to name, I'm going to name my first son. I'm going to name him Elvis Caelbson. Did he? And I'm like, that doesn't work. Calebson. No, Stevenson just works. That's Stevenson.

Caleb's son doesn't work. Yeah. It's what could. I'm like, yeah, I guess you can... No, he named Noble. He has a son named Noble Day. So anyways, but yeah. How many have you two been together?

30, almost 38 years, married, October 13th, counted. Wow, fistbalms, still fist bumping on. 39 years together. We met. And married quick. Yeah, we met in the fall of 83 at Anderson. I got married to the fall of 84. Met at our mailbox because some of you told the story many times.

You may not know this. we actually shared a mailbox in college because her maiden name was Chapman. She was Mary Beth Chapman when I met. Wow. And that's kind of how we met. Wow. We met. That weird?

They're not too weird in Kentucky. Yeah. Kentucky, I was like, well, we should get married. We got the same last name. It should go super easy. She should be super easy. Not. But, hey, here we are.

Yeah. But that's how we met. We had the same last name. Sounds like things are kind of getting serious between you two, though, you know? 30-time years in? Yeah. Yeah. We're, you know, we got, we think, we think this might, we might be in this for the long haul.

We just gave me the blankest stare. He's like, what are you talking? He's like, what is this guy? Do you be serious with us? Yeah. I think. With, in your guys' relationship, music, you've been doing for 35 years. So did that start around the same time that you guys were together?

Yeah. Well, I grew up playing music, real musical. world the reason why i didn't know what freaking march madness was the first year i know totally unacceptable look i'll get my man card out now we can just tear it up in the little pieces um i didn't know march madness i didn't know much about sports i am very sorry um to both of you but i would have been huge fans of both of you had i watched sports because you're just both awesome people i'd have been your favorite yeah you would have been my favorite i would have had your your card football card did they make football cards i had baseball cards okay see i didn't even know that i would have had your jersey

with you with with east on the back and say yeah that's my man but i was very musical uh world that i grew up in and came to uh work after i graduated from high school here in nashville at a place called operiland USA you guys remember operandi i know it there's a little amusement park built around the Grand Ole Opry and that was uh so I really I wanted to do music that was kind of my dream because I'd play music all growing up saying in church with my family my dad's a great musician my brother was the real singer actually growing up I was kind of his backup guy guitar player and sang kind of duet sort of with him but then got a job at Opry land um working here in a country music show and uh got to sing on the grand old Opry when I was 19

years old so i mean it was kind of music was you know my love but i actually went to college started out as a pre-med major because my dad who was a musician said funny yeah it is very funny now knowing what we know commentator yes thank you yeah really you can just you can just you know punch in the jabs where you need to but no my dad told me because he had basically done music he he had a little music story still does actually in pedu Kentucky, where I grew up, Chapman Music, and teaching guitar lessons. And he said, son, it's really hard to feed a family playing a guitar. Basically, I remember the conversation.

He said, go to college, get a real job. You can always have only music, whatever. And so I went to college and signed, you know, what do you want to major in? I was like, real job, doctor. That's a real job. I'll be that. What do you do? Oh, pre-med.

Okay. So I was a pre-med major for like, well, probably about one semester, but really about two weeks. and I realized I do not have what it takes to do this. So I changed the music, found through crazy circumstances and God really just kind of directing and orchestrating an amazing path. I ended up connecting with a guy named Bill Gaither, who wrote all the songs I grew up singing in church with my family. He was like kind of modern day hymn writer for the church I grew up in.

And he and his wife, Gloria, my music got sort of cross. paths with Bill and Gloria Gather. They were in Indiana, in Anderson, well, in Alexandria, Indiana, but they had a little music program in a school called Anderson College that I'd never even heard of, but that's where I wanted to go. So I transferred, went to Anderson, Indiana. I was writing songs. I got a little publishing contract.

Started writing songs for people, and that is enter the love of my life, the vision of beauty walking across campus that I'd never seen before. a couple of years behind me in school, and I was like, whoa, who is that lovely young lady? And met her, shared a mailbox, said, I want to know everything I can about this amazing woman. So I asked her on a date. I took her to Red Lobster. Red Lobster. That was as big time as you could go.

Popcorn shrimp and cheese biscuits. Maybe that's the recipe for love right there. That's it. Oh, my gosh. That's Anderson's finest restaurant. Yeah. So that's where it began. This episode is brought to you by Defender.

With its 626 horsepower twin-turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar Rally, the ultimate off-road challenge. Learn more at landrover.com. How'd the first day go, Marybeth? Oh, is it really? Do we have to tell this? I don't know this.

I don't know this story. I don't know a lot of ass. Oh, my gosh. So, yeah. So, yeah, the first date, he was two hours late. Oh, my. What? You would do the same thing.

Hey, dude, there is a great explanation. I was not just blowing this off. Trust me. You'll tell a long story. Trust me. The vision of beauty. The short story is he's two hours late. Why?

That's not fair. We are, okay, we are dinosaurs. So we're talking back in the day of no cell phone. No internet. No text. thing no end of that, right? We had a one phone in the dorm hall, right? So it's not like he can get up and go,

I'm going to go call and say, I'm late. Where was I? You were doing a concert. I should have known. It should have been in the foretaste of what was going to be the next 35 years, of kind of being a little late and not on schedule. But he was doing a concert, and it was at, like, it was the little promo band he was playing in for Anderson,

and you were at, like, some. it was a veterans dinner veterans dinner and you know and we're supposed to sing at the end at the end one person got up telling us stories and it's like the clock just going and I have no cell phone no way to go I'm not going to I can't leave because we haven't sung yet can't blow this off and I'm like this is over she's going to hate me um and I'm going to be so late and I'm going to tell him what you did and I'll be lined out can I tell this part or do you want to tell it because I know I had one everything you told your boys not to do. This is, truly, you'd have to know kind of my, my M.O.

But, like, I'm thinking, there's no way. I mean, I'm probably, she's probably going to be like, this guy is a flake. He's not, you know, whatever. And I was very, very at this point enamored with this young lady. And I was like, I got one shot. I'm late. I'm going to walk in here. I'm going to try to explain, you know, what happened.

But I'm going to just plant. the best kiss I've got on this girl right out of the gate. I walked in the door. There she was. No, we had to be really fair, at least in my defense. Yeah, I'm making you so worse than it was. It wasn't like, hey, my name's Steve, can I take you on a date? We had spent a lot of time together.

We had gone to walk into class. I mean, trust me, I was everywhere I could be to kind of intersect with her and see her. The kids call that stalking. stalking but it was pursuing i was pursuing her is the what it was and um so we had spent time together this was just our first official date so i show up two hours late and i'm like dang it i'm going for it it's either going to be the end but if if you know go bigger go home and i'm like this is my chance so i did i just like i've kissed her right out of the gate i'm like i'm so sorry you hung out for two hours though i did and i you know i try to think about what i did i don't know if i left and

came back. Well, here's the other funny part is we, it was a very conservative Christian school, so it was very rare that guys were allowed in girls' dorms and vice versa. It happened to be that weekend. It was open, open dorm, or our dorm. We had the one foot on the floor rule, you know. It was just like all the dumb stuff that happened back in the 80s. You can still get into some serious trouble.

It's a one foot. One foot of them, I'm telling you. They think that's going to like, you know, whatever, getting into trouble. He's just like, yeah. Creative, you know. So anyhow, my roommate and I, I grew up in a family of a lot of practical joking, a lot of just having fun, harmless fun. And she and I had gone to, I think it was called, was it Decker Hall? And we borrowed a no parking any time sign that was in this huge cement base.

And we had drug it, put it in my Greenford Pinto and brought it back to our room and sat it between our beds because we thought this would be great room decor. and so that was he had never been you know in my room and so that's like between or two beds he comes in yeah gives me a nice kiss and then he he's like where did you get that i'm like yeah dundee and i got this from the decker hall where you know and it's great room deck where he goes that's that's stealing you know put that back you know it's just like that kind of just set the course of yeah he and i it's like what like what i'm going to put it back next spring you're going to get in trouble Now you can get in trouble. You've got to put that back.

I should have known right then. Yeah. But anyways. It's going to be a good. It seems like you and I have similar dispositions. Sean is like anytime I even just inch over the line of what's acceptable, she's like, oh, this is not okay. She'll call me out on it. I be very vocal.

I'm like, hey, we're just here for a good time, man. You're the rule follower. Yes. Our S. R.J. Rule follower. Yeah, she's not going to. Gymnist thing.

It is. It's like, yeah, right? Like a real. precise. It's life or death and gymnastics that way. You follow the rules. Yes, totally. I am curious though as far as your relationship goes, I don't know how to ask that question, but like your music trajectory

had to have taken off well into like your relationship and that comes with a lot of like peaks and valleys to it. And same with a relationship though. Like you guys were just starting to get to know each other, just starting to date, engaged, married. How did the music life affect your guys' relationship? Well, wonderfully and terribly, because obviously it provided, you know, has. Because we did it all, right?

Like, it was all simultaneously. Because we got, so I was 18 when I met him, shortly turned 19, married when I was 19, and you were 21. And I just turned 21 when Emily was born. So, like, so you see, like, the kid thing started. Yeah. the marriage things are and we were kids ourselves yeah thinking it's just going to be all hunky dory because our names were the same or whatever but um then he was also becoming

stephen krist chattman all at the same time so um you know i would i would say around you know the the development of all of that your first record was supposed to come out in 86 when that was when emily was born and we had that fire on our apartment all that stuff so I mean we just we did have a lot of peaks and valleys but it was all going on at the same time so it was it's hard to remember a lot of it because we probably blocked a lot of it out but yeah it's like you know trauma it's like just literally but no I think we we one of the things I'm very very thankful for and we have said this over the years is that we grew and kind of built this together you know it wasn't like I'm doing this and had every

any question is she kind of digging me because, you know, I'm like, you know, got something going on here. I had nothing going on. I was a student and was, I mean, I was writing songs. I think maybe when we met I had a song recorded, had the, I think the Imperials, maybe my first cut or something had happened. I bought her engagement ring with the royalty check from a Sandy Patty cut. Yes, there it is. That's amazing. What, 800 bucks of it, I think, and spent my whole royalty check so i mean and that was just the beginning but as far as doing music myself so when we first met it was really my i was going to just trying to pursue being a songwriter for other people and and when so my first um when i got to make my first record you know first record deal

all of that stuff we just did all of it together um every phone call every hey uh this looks like this might happen you know we're celebrating together we're you know the the the tears you know we're crying how that fell through that didn't happen so um i think one of the my most vivid memories was um when i first so i had my first record and um and we were very i mean i was very uh my expectations were very low out of the gate like i i really believe i can provide for my family i can put food on the table doing this, but it's not going to be a big deal. It's not going to be, I'm not a, you know, there was just humble expectations, even from the record label, even the people that were working with me.

It wasn't like, man, you're going to be the next big thing. It was just kind of, hey, there's something special when you sing your songs, you know, not going to set the woods on fire, you know, whatever, but it's, I think you can do this and have some success enough to, you know, provide for your family and be your job. And so she would sit on the edge of our bed in our little tiny house and our first house in Laverne, Tennessee. And we bought that house for $46,000 or something like that. And she would literally call from our bedroom.

I remember seeing her sit and she'd get all of her papers out because she was very much from day one, the administrative one, the one that's like has all that going on. I'm the creative guy over here. kind of floating around and never never land and she would call and say hi this is marybeth calling from the office of stephen curtis chapman would you like to book him for a concert she'd call churches to try to get me concerts and that was her office was you know our our bedroom and not even a desk it was like sitting on the bed with all the papers spread out and so that's where it kind of began

uh for the two of us and wow so it's all of it all at one time which yeah and then fast forward yeah to the great adventure, which would be arguably for a lot of people who followed my music, a real, you know, kind of a launching pad of my career in a bigger way. I mean, my first record did good enough that they let me make a second record. And, you know, and Mary Beth in the meantime was, I mean, this is one of my favorite stories. My first record, we went to Sparrow. We went to Chatsworth, California, to Los Angeles, and never been to California or like two kids, It's just, I'm a hillbilly, got the mullet going, you know, and everything, and she's a Midwest girl, just kind of wherever this is going, let's see where it goes.

And we end up in California for me to do my first flight. I think it was. I think it was my first. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And we went to California the first time to do my first photo shoot for my album cover. And like, photo shoot, wow, this is so cool, you know.

And she had a plan. She's like, well, you're going to start touring. We're going to need a vehicle. to tour in you need it we're going to need a tour bus because at that time we had you know her as she mentioned green ford pinto which was not very good touring vehicle you had your van that we panel yes i had i had a van and she said i'm going to go and i have watched oh this was this is true story i have watched price is right since i was a little girl stop i can win the campers showcase showdown and i bet they're going to have an RV in there and we if i can win us

a camper, an RV, that can be our first tour bus. So she went and stood in line. To try to get on prices. Price is right. Well, I went and did my first photo shoot. It didn't work. It didn't work. We didn't get the camper.

But you tried, you tried. You went for it. So, that crazy. Who's more ambitious out of the two of you? Because it sounds like you're the one that kind of puts the pieces. Well, I think sometimes, I think we're both pretty ambitious and probably in real different unique skill sets. So that can, because there's ambition on both personalities, that's what can create, I think,

some of the holy headlock, instead of holy wedlock stuff that, you know, the dynamic. But, but, yeah. You're saying you guys, like, have argued over the past, five, six times, at least, maybe seven. Maybe seven, thousand, no, yeah. Million. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much out of the gate, it was, oh, wow. It's going to be a lot harder than what I thought.

this is going to be a long life it's going to be awesome I can't tell if you're kidding or not no no no we have had yeah it's been it's been you know it's been a lot and there's been times of deep deep angst and I can't do this anymore

you know the long nights and the you know we had by the time I was to one 26, all three of the natural children. We call our children natural and supernatural because we have some with through adoption, so that's supernatural and the natural. But our biological children, Emily, Caleb, and Will, were all here by the time I was 25, maybe, 26.

You know, he's singing, I will be here, but he's never home. You know, yeah, you're there, but you're not here. You're not really here. But, you know, all of the kind of success, all of the all eyes, all the all the accolades and stuff and that's really hard when you're a young mom and young husband and trying to you know you know split the time and you know be dad and be husband and be who you need to be and then continue the upward momentum as long as that is going to happen so it it you know and a lot of stuff that we brought into the marriage that you don't think you're

bringing in that you know all of a sudden you end up in a bunch of counselors office i think we've built wings on it just about if you can if you name a counselor or I can probably, I'll probably go, I know them. I've had a listening, Matt. Oh, I've had those, that placard of words that I'm supposed to pick from. And, yeah, all the different things. What are you really feeling? Nope. Yeah, how are you really, you know, use these words?

All of, all of the things, you know, to try to help keep us together and keep us sane. And, you know, I brought a lot of emotional stuff into the marriage and, you know, you know, found early on that I was probably suffering with some clinical depression. and then that was a whole new thing I'm dealing with. And so we were and have been very long suffering on that journey. So it's been a lot of mountaintops and a lot of deep valleys, but kind of done it all together. I feel like we kind of grew up together. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure.

This fall get double points on every qualified stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. all right let's take a minute to thank our sponsors this week babe i think we can officially tell people that we bought a new house the secret is out everyone's noticing and let's be honest most people already know i didn't want to share this news for a lot of different reasons we'll share later but you're right it's probably obvious enough um we are getting settled in and have to thank one of our brands

that's helped us get the house feeling like home and that's bull and branch um every single room that we had at our old house, now that we have at the content house, and now every single room in the new house, we have furnished with Bull and Ranch. You guys have heard me talk about them a ton on Instagram. It's honestly in every room of our house. Bull and Branch sheets use only the best

100% organic cotton threads on Earth for a superior softness that only gets more luxurious with every wash. And they look really good. They do. They come in so many different colors, textures. They have like throw pillows and blankets, duvet covers, all

of it. They do place an emphasis on thread quality so their sheets feel almost impossibly soft and luxurious. It feels like I'm staying at a five-star hotel when we get in bed at night. And I'm there with like a supermodel. Okay. Yeah, baby. Okay. I agree with that. And they're the first 100% organic fair trade certified betting company ever. Try the sheets that will make you fall in love with the coziest season of the year. Get 15% off your first set of sheets. And And free shipping when you use promo code EastFam at BullenBranch.com. That's Bullen Branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, B-R-A-N-C-H.com. promo code EastFam.

We'll also link it down below. Let's get back to it. Without getting, like, too sappy from my side. Yeah. I feel like to a certain extent, I don't mean this by like age, but truly just by everything that you just said, you're literally the reason why we started the show. Aw.

Because we got so tired as like a young man. marriage seeing all of these stories in Hollywood of oh it's just not the right thing you see people in their 60s getting divorced to have been together for years and I feel like with everything that you guys have gone through with starting to date when you're in college and going to the roller coaster of massive success and kids and adoption and all of these things you guys have figured out a way to fight through it and we learned very early on that marriage is very hard very hard it's very hard and you you too could just as easily say you know might be better for the kids might yeah you know well all the different things that people use as their reasonings and stuff and

again i'm not i'm not here to judge on anybody's story but you can also dig your heels in and go and we're going to do it yeah we're going to prove everybody wrong and continue to choose and i mean there there's been days you know that we've just went ah this is really uh huh but i think um I think for all the times that we've been in counselor's office, the principal's office, the pastor's office, everybody's office. We've been in all the office. It's not been for the faint of heart. I mean, you know, whoever's listening to this that have helped us,

thank you, but you know who you are, and there's plenty of them in this, this town and out of town. We've gone out of town. We've left town and gone and got help. We've been a lot of places. But I think, you know, I've heard you recently saying that it really all comes down. to making a decision choosing it and staying in it and then you know the scripture that says love bears all things and i've heard you say that a lot recently where it's just like okay i i love you

i don't really like you right now but okay i'm gonna i'm gonna bear with you in this and you've certainly done that over and over and both i've tried to drive home to ohio a ton but yeah you tried to walk there i tried to walk one time i remember right at the very beginning you got out of the car and said, I'm just walking back to Ohio. We were in, we were in Nashville. I was like, we're just get back in the car and we'll figure this out. Nope, I'm walking to Ohio. It sounds familiar.

We were on our way to Indiana once and I was like, let me out of the car. I'm going home. Yes. Yeah. But truly, like. I don't think that was as welcoming as Stephen. Yeah. I will say those, like, thank you because we, again, I get so tired of like the false optimism

of people being like, oh. oh, it's, if you argue something's wrong. And if it's easy, or it should be easy if it's right and, like, all of these things. And to have people paint the picture of, like, reality of, like, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, but it's worth it is truly why we started this show. Like, we want, we love those stories because marriage is awesome and hard. And it's just reassuring to know that that's what it's supposed to be like. Right, right.

I mean, I just think if, if I know me, I mean. I watch my, I watch my four-year-old, we have two four-year-old granddaughters and then two seven-year-old granddaughters, no, one-grandson granddaughter, and then eight and ten. And out of the gate, it's a pretty obvious, you have two small children. They're sinners. I mean, we watch it, we watch these two little girls, it's like, wow. I mean, sin nature is in full force and clearly in me as a, as a 50-some. something um if i mean how are you not going to argue like i just i just think that's a false sense of you know it has to go well or something might be really wrong i'm like oh i think that's

probably something really wrong if it's all going really well i don't know just just because it's just it is worth fighting for and i'm the chief of sinners as are you but i'll put words in your I agree I concur I concede yeah so well I think that is it really is and the thing I try to tell a lot of times I found myself over the years band members or guys I'm working in the studio even recently a guy who's you know marriage is really struggling and and um very tempted to you know just kind of chuck it and just you know say man it's just we're not there's not right we're not compatible we don't have the same you know any gram numbers or you know whatever you know that match up and all those things at that um you know and i've just so many times i've

said man again mary beth and i are the first to say i know there are circumstances and situations and things that we could never would never want to sit in judgment or you know, say, well, you know, just do what we did. But I do think I just try to say so many times it is, it is worth it. It is really worth it. There are places that you only get to enjoy, you know, it's kind of climbing the mountain and the view. And there are so many times when you're like, man, I just, this is too hard, you know.

And I don't even know if it's worth it to try to get any higher up this mountain, you know, because it's just so hard, I'm, you know, I'm packing it in, I'm hitting back. And then you hit those, get those moments in those moments where, I mean, I've told this many times, but where we got to stand beside our first granddaughter's crib in Belfast, Northern Ireland. She was born in Ireland. That's pretty cool. Yeah, in Ireland. And we had, you know, we were not that far, just three or four years after the loss of our

youngest daughter, which was unthinkable, unbearable. should have destroyed most marriages don't survive the loss of a child statistics say and we understand that we're already a big mess and then this you know comes along as kind of the fatal blow in many ways and we just you know kept holding on and kept fighting through and I just I'll never forget that moment standing there together with all of our battle scars and all of our mess that we still had and are going to have going forward and all of that, but having this one just so epic moment together of looking down at this, you know, cradle and arms around each other getting experience this moment together.

Not that there's so many different scenarios and different versions of this story where it wouldn't have, we would not have had this one, you know, amazing epic moment that we get to enjoy together. And we just sat there and stood there and cried and wept and prayed and thank to God, you know, for that, those little moments and that we've had so many of those along with the really awful, hard, painful ones that we don't know how we're going to survive and sometimes don't even know if we want to survive, you know, just take me out, take me home. Jesus is just too hard. But then, you know, those moments, you do, you know, get those and they're so worth it.

And that's, you know, I just try to keep preaching that to especially the young, you know, young ones on the journey like those moments come and you get those and they're so good so you know hang in and keep hanging on you know through these moments that are not so good that can be really hard that's amazing it does seem like by design the greatest joys in life are proportionate to like the greatest valleys or like hardest times and they always it seems like go hand in hand it's like the child birth process for women not as much for us yeah is brutal and then you have the baby right or like for athletes it's training which feels like a valley like the harder you train the deeper you go in like the valley the the better you perform and you know

you kind of experience that joy but it's like it is I think viewing it like that has kind of encourage me through the valleys of like all right something good is coming like I don't know it just I think re-reframing that thought of like oh this is too hard to this is hard and it's going to like it's going to lead to something better at least has helped me but um if we if we think for a minute there's not an enemy that sees goodness and good things that you all are doing together to encourage life encourage family encourage togetherness you don't think for a moment you don't have a target on your back you know right here on your forehead so you know like you said to reframe it and go oh i i see this i recognize this you know from a mile away to go you know there's many many many many nights i've laid and been going we should have started a casino or something you know just get the really why have we try to do all these good things yeah you know the adoption workers oh we should have yeah and just get the enemy off our back you know just to really reframe and go oh

like you said something good must be coming you know like you know he's defeated he already knows he's defeated and he's trying so hard so obviously it's going to he's going to be taking all kinds of fatal blows and to be to be able to recognize it and go okay okay let's call this what it is and you're not my enemy but there is an enemy but we don't do that very well I just start throwing things that input and I'm quick be quick Tim's new scrambled egg loaded croissant Or is it croissant No matter how you say it

Start your day with freshly cracked scrambled eggs Loaded on a buttery flaky croissant Try it with maple brown butter today at Tim's At participating restaurants in Canada for limited time I would be while we're on the subject We'd love to hear about show hope And you kind of alluded to it But talk about what that's meant to you to

To your family to healing Not just your family but so many others others and the joy that's been brought with that yeah well so as i alluded we have uh three natural children three supernatural brought brought to us through the miracle of adoption and that was something that our emily um she and i went on a trip when she was 11 years old to Haiti actually we went with compassion international and i'm telling you all it it was it was the first time i had been to a third world country and it was the first time she had been on mission strip so we were we were just obviously um blown away by the need just you know the need

globally however emily at 11 years old something just well it's holy spirit but like in an 11 year old you're like going that just cannot be but she came back just on fire for what her like mom and dad we have room at our table and there's no reason why we shouldn't be stepping into adoption like we need to adopt a sibling and like it was a full on full on full court press i mean we had we had our pastor come over and talk to her because it was like we were like emily that is a great idea and when you grow up you and your family can do that someday but you know like that's a great idea for your family because i was really really fearful of the process i was you know just i was already thinking i was not a competent mother of the three i had that i just i'm like i just

don't know and but we committed to pray because we saw this spark in her eye and we didn't want to like squash her faith of a child but at the same time she's 11 years old you know it's just like she's writing letters you might be living in disobedience to god's will for your life like literally we have those letters she's she's and she's our theologian so go figure that god was working in her heart at 11 but we we committed to pray about it and take steps of faith and the long and short of it it It wound us up in China in 2000 to adopt Showy, our first child from China. And China's a whole long story. You started in Haiti and ended up in China, but that was just, it's a whole God, a God story.

But from there, pretty much knew Stevie Joy would come home, and then a year later, Maria came home. So three different adoptions. But through the course of that, it was really with the story of Showy when I stood in the hallway of a hotel in China. and they hand me this little girl, you know, she, it was, it was me really understanding my deep, deep, deep adoption in Jesus Christ and the way in which he's adopted us into his kingdom. And they handed her to me and we have her little sweater and all of her stuff framed because it's just, you know, all the little mismatched knitted arm, you know, just these little rags that she was in and she was ours. you know in a moment everything changed and um so i was like seeing this happen you know here's you know here's a child who now is ours and everything that's ours is hers and she's inherited into this family and she's got two little pesky brothers and a sister and we're all

there and it happened you know and an hour later she's got gap pajamas on and we're in the restaurant and she's eating french fries and we're going what has happened but the whole time it was me also realizing my own adopt option story and so I think by the time we got home I was pretty revved up to go you have a platform and you know that was back in 2000 and it was like we I know I know my family I know your family I know there's going to be people who watch our story and are going to we're going to be able to say we looked in the eyes we got to visit the orphanages and this is just China think about globally you know and think about in our own backyard domestic you know like my mind was just

going there's children what there's children that need homes and And so I came back with a real burning desire to help families. And so we thought, well, maybe we can use Steve's platform. What if we can help 100 families adopt? That would be pretty cool, you know, in honor of our own adoption. There's a lot of families. We immediately started to hear so many people say we would love to adopt. Someday we just can't afford it.

Because $20,000, $30,000, you know, there's a lot of school teachers, pastors, people in ministry, you know, whatever, going, that's like a year's salary or something. There's no way we can do that, but someday we hope we pray we would love to do that. And, you know, so you've got that and you're just having walked through orphanages looking in the faces of hundreds of children waiting for a family. And you're thinking it's just money is keeping them from bringing these children home. That's crazy. And that was where my wife, the glorious little firecracker that she is, said, we're fixing that.

We can do something about that. I can write a check and help that family. And so she's kind of like, well, okay, let's talk Monday. Let me get home, get my bags unpacked, do some laundry, and get over jet lag, but let's talk. And that's really how show hope started. I mean, it's always fine. We really just started with adoption aid grants because nobody was really doing that back then. And then it's grown into, from adoption aid grants.

Well, I love, I love this. This is a statistic, but to date, we've been able to help over 8,300 families. That's incredible. And that represents 60, 60-some countries. Wow. And obviously, United States is a big part of that. We love helping here in our own backyard and all over the world, little ones have come home. So that's just God, you know, going, enlarging my heart to go, okay, like we can make this known, right?

And then from there, we've really begun to wrap our arms around families because adoption is glorious and it's hard. And so, you know, pre and post-adoption services, you know, we really help try to help families be as healthy and as whole as possible. And we also give medical care grants. A lot of children that come home through the miracle of adoption have medical needs that fall outside of the normal bounds of insurance. And so we kind of help kind of keep going deeper and deeper so they just don't feel so overwhelmed, you know, once they have stepped into a hard situation. And so we love what we get to do and get to advocate for. But that's really out of our own story of having Sweet Showy and Stevie and Maria as part of our family. Wow.

How much of your life journey and experience is reflected in your music? Oh, all of it. All of it? Yeah, it's totally, you can listen to my music through the years and you can sort of track our life. You know, you have to read between the lines a little bit, but even sometimes not even very much because you can go back to, you know, particularly our journey together. But, I mean, I think about, you know, first couple of records, well, I will be here, you know, really. written out of my mom and dad's divorce, which was one of our first really hard valleys together where we kind of got this bucket of water thrown in our face. Like, wait a minute, they were

supposed to be married forever. They were like, you know, love Jesus, loved each other. It was like they counseled other people. And we just kind of thought, well, we'll just do a lot like they've done it and like our parents. You know, they're going to pick the good and things that we see in them. And then suddenly my mom and dad divorce. And it's a real, you know, eye opener. It's our first time we kind of went to a counselor because we thought, wait a minute, maybe just saying, oh, divorce is not even a word in our vocabulary because that's what my parents said forever. And suddenly they were. So we thought, maybe that's not enough just to say the right words and sort of be in denial.

We need to help. We need to, you know, work on some of these things. And I wrote the song, I will be here really out of that. And you hear me in there when you feel like you, you know, when you feel like being quiet, when you need to speak your mind, I'm going to try to listen because right out of the gate was like, you know, The first, you know, the whole. Anybody that knows me knows that line is like. Yeah, yeah, they know.

Sometimes it's going to be really quiet when you want to talk because you can't let the sun go down on your anger. That's what the Bible says. We have to do what the Bible said. That was me, me, foolish me, and she would fall asleep. And so there would be a hole in the dry wall on my side of the bed the next morning where I put my fist through the hole because I was so frustrated. I have to fix this. We have to fix it right now. You know, bad, bad idea.

and um we sound very similar yeah okay yeah we have to fix it it's broken fix it and he'll go straight to sleep yeah no we were on it we were on a trip once and um we were with some really good friends of ours and it's even i got super sideways so stupid too here's the crazy thing you get mad at each other and then you go what were we mad about crazy that was going to end our marriage and we can't even remember what we were mad about anyways i got we got so sideways and um and our friends knew it they know us better than than anybody and so the next morning um they were like hey is it everything you know everything good and i go yeah i took it i took a five milligram ambian and in the middle of his best point it was morning i go i'm good he's all good and i'm still over there

going okay to pick up where we left oh yeah he's just there's the same steam coming out his ears i'm like we have to fix this now and he's like what are you talking about we're all good yeah yeah oh my goodness And I'm sorry for that Because it's probably not the best I don't know You know what There's lots on both ends of that

Because I have to stop You know I'm still trying to learn to Not be the fixture That I was never really Supposed to be in the first place A lot of things just stay broken And you just

That's where love bears all things Listen to what he's saying Listen to what they're saying Yeah Listen to what they're saying Yeah we're gonna leave you guys now Yeah, but no, but the music, I mean, I use that one point, but I mean, you go through and you hear it in so many of the songs, especially our song specifically about you, but I mean, Cinderella is a song a lot of people know and written, you know, for our two little girls, youngest daughters, when one of those nights I'm tired and mourn out and they want to dance and want to go to the, you know, I'm like, it's not tonight. We're getting your pajamas and you're going to bed because I still got work to do and it's late and you need to go to sleep and I'm irritated and tired and grumpy and put them in their pajamas and then I sit down and go crap I just missed a moment you know

I had a moment right now you know I need to write as SR wrote the song Cinderella that night just to say all right don't miss the moment so absolutely my life our life is very reflected I think in my music over the years summer's here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with uber eats what do we mean by almost well you can't get a well-groom lawn delivered but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana? That's a no. But a banana? That's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry. Nope.

But a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines? Yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. All right, true story. So Sean and I went to Mexico this weekend for a mission trip. We're on our way back. We're in the San Diego airport.

Yeah. and I pull out my travel pack athletic greens. Yes. And my other powders. Yes. And the guy next to me punches my arm. He's like, dude, I brought my athletic greens as well. Didn't know this guy.

And then he goes on to say how it's like changed his life. Literally. How it's the only supplement he takes anymore. How he used to take all of these supplements and he got rid of them. It was truly like, it was just like a pinchy moment. It was like, yeah, we've been trying to tell you guys. I was, I was interacting with this guy and I was like, I'm going to be talking about this and our next time we talk about athletic greens yes if you guys don't know about athletic greens

ag one with one scoop of the greens powder you get 75 high quality vitamins minerals whole food source superfoods probiotics and adaptions for the day it truly has become a part of my morning routine i almost can't go to day without it it's like something about the taste the way it makes you feel yeah it have to have it it helps support mental clarity alertness digestion sleep truly like like the brain fog, all of it. It is an awesome, all-encompassing vitamin that you should take every day. It helps your brain health, your gut health, your muscles, your immune system, the whole thing. It's great.

So if you want to try it out, Athletic Greens is going to make it easy. They're going to give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athletic greens.com forward slash EastFam. Again, that's athletic greens.com forward slash EastFam to take. ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance thank you random guy in the airport for that story your newest album yes still yes what big impactful or milestone or phase of life is reflected there well i mean we're still here yes the very the very

word still for me is kind of like the you know so important that word i think Maybe because of the point in life that we are at, you know, I'm getting ready to turn 60. She, several years behind me, I'll say, did I do get? Many years behind me. Not that far behind me. But, and I could talk and I won't in this interview, but about she walked through with me and saw me wrestling with even, do I need to, should I make another recording? Do people care? Does anybody want to hear new music?

from the old guy, you know. I do, I do. Yeah, and a lot of wrestling with that because, you know, you get to that point and creatively and, you know, where everybody is like, man, you know, your song, the Great Adventure, your song, gosh, there's never going to be another record like, fill in the blank, speechless, that was your ultimate, that was the pinnacle of your music to me. And it's a compliment, but what they basically said is, so you don't need to really bother doing anything else because that's all I really care about, you know.

It's like when we went to see Little River Band. Oh, yeah. I love it. It's so true. We went a few weeks ago. And, you know, what did we go? We went to hear the hits, right? Yeah.

So we're there. And sure enough, the lead singer goes, okay, we're going to play a new one for you. Y'all go to the bathroom now. He said, it's a funny thing I've learned over the years that new songs make people have to go pee. He's like, I don't know why it is. And then his next, what was really funny, and I thought it was perfect, he said, now this song made people have to in 1978 and they played reminiscing which is one of the classic songs and i was like yeah that's true you get me you see me um but you know that that struggle that so many people you know artistically

you have to kind of work through but i finally came to the place of going you know there's some things after living through a global pandemic there's some things 14 years after you know we lost our daughter um and the journey that that's been um that i have a perspective on life and we have a perspective now that I couldn't have written these songs, wouldn't have written them, you know, five, ten, twenty years ago. These are things that I can only say now. And so that I finally decided that seems important enough for me to write these songs and to say these things.

And so that word still kind of captured so much of that. I still feel like I'm still compelled to write and sing songs that I hope will encourage people i still believe god is faithful and good i still love my wife you know um we're still on the journey together um and i still want to sing about it you know and so and really encouraging people to not lose heart which is the song on the record yeah exactly really i think is the message yeah yeah you want to that you've been wanting to let people yeah how do we not we've lost so much in this season of life for everybody globally, you know, loss of jobs and income and security. I mean, this morning, I told Marybeth, I flashed up on my phone, the stock market.

Don't look, don't look. It's crushed. Mayday, I know. I know. And it's like, and loss of life, loss of friends, loss of family members. Marybeth lost her brother-in-law, my brother-in-law, her sister's husband a year ago, a little over a year ago from brain cancer and my keyboard player for many years that passed away from COVID at my age and it's just so loss has affected all of us and you know on so many levels

and so yeah how do we with all of that how have we by God's grace not lost heart you know because you lose everything but if you cannot lose hope in the midst of that what's that going to look like and and that's so a lot of these songs have just kind of been our journey you know together of how do you not lose heart in in the midst of crazy times that we're in and still in fact believe not just hey we're just going to hang on and barely survive but thrive and actually believe there is hope and there's reason to you know to really be hopeful and what does that look like so yeah that's felt like worth you know writing some songs about and then I got really excited and started writing more songs.

And then I had too many songs. And I figured out, okay, how many songs can I actually put on this record and record? And so I recorded about 17 songs. Got to record with my sons, my boys who are in my favorite rock band in the world, Colony House, shout out. Check out their music. But Colony House guys, Caleb and Will, my boys came and actually helped me produce and even write some of these songs.

And that was super cool as well. So, yeah, I'm very excited about it. We are too. It is amazing. I think your ability to speak about where you are in life so honestly and capture it in such a beautiful way. It's like truly a God-given gift where it's like, man, that's, it's like listening to your songs about Cinderella has made me a better dad. It's like there's something just amazing about that process. And so I'm excited about this album where it's like there's going to be so much wisdom, you know, in it.

and I just can't wait and thank you for it and thank you for, you know, putting up with it. I'm sure there's a lot. Yes. But I'm curious, so you've had 49 number ones. Is that right? Yeah. Well, let's make it, let's make it 56 after, or sorry, 66 after the 17. Okay.

All right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, did you hear that, Alex? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's really sweating. He was like, well, if we can get to 50, they're going to be really happy. so 50 what that would be wouldn't it be fun oh man but it is like so it's it's interesting um

to look at ambition through a christian lens i'm curious your your take on that because like it is fine line sometimes absolutely it's a big old fine well yeah i mean because it for both of us we live it because mary beth is board chair and uh really i'm co-founder but i mean And show hope that you ask about is, is her, you know, her baby. And she, there is, I'm married to a very ambitious woman as well. I mean, it's like, if we're going to do this, let's do it with excellence. Let's do it the best, you know, let's, and when we hear things and people, even when our daughter goes to Washington, Capitol Hill and to meet on adoption issues and orphan advocacy, and they say, oh, show hope. And you guys are like the gold standard.

I mean, we, you have so much, you know, respect. and because we see you do it well and with excellence and it's kind of like yes that's you know we're so encouraging to hear and that doesn't just happen i mean you know that you guys both you know incredible athletes and have been at the top of your game you don't just stay on a four inch piece of wood yeah right yeah and it's and it's because you have pursued excellence yes and yet there is such a fine line of this does not define me and yet this sort of defines me you know and doing this well and being the best and being at the top of that and and how do you how do you handle all of that and that is one of the great i was talking to somebody the other day uh oh was a young country guy who's just blowing up you know his music's just crushing and he's just like how do you keep from you know this defining you and and taking the glory for yourself when you know all this is a gift from god and yet or you know grab your you know grab your shoes and touch you and you touch their hand and it's kind of like

I'm going, man, they did this to Jesus. And this is really weird. Yeah. And I was, we were talking about that very same thing. And I remember my pastor, dear friend, and our, he's walked through life with us and baptized our babies and buried one of them with us and Scotty Smith. And I walked around an awards show years ago, literally with tears in my eyes going, I don't know what to do with all of this. I want this. I want to succeed.

I want to win every award I can possibly win because that means I've done excellently what God gives me to do and yet I'm here singing about Jesus who scripture says he made of himself no reputation and yet this whole thing's built on

brand and reputation and all of that we were not designed to do this right and yet and how do we you know how do we do it do we just throw the baby out with the bathwater and say well because it's so hard and you can't reconcile it.

Maybe it's all wrong. Maybe it shouldn't even be doing this. And yet then I hear the stories of people saying, man, your music, encourage me in my faith and help me be a better dad because I heard your song, Cinderella, you know, whatever. And he said, the best thing I can tell you is

the day you stop struggling with that and wrestling with that question will be the day that I'll probably pull you aside and go, hey, brother, I think it's time to pack it in and go home. You're going to struggle with it. And just wrestle with it, redemptively, you know, and you're going to walk with a limp, you know, if you struggle and battle

with it. But that's just going to be part of the process, you know, and you're going to look at Paul who, you know, in scripture who says, follow me as I follow Christ. Yeah, it's okay, you know, if they follow you, if they look at you, if they're going to put you on a pedestal of some sort or if you're going to pursue excellence, just do that ultimately for the glory of God. And you're not always going to do it right you know i was going to do so be quick to repent be quick to stay humble and that's where god you know gave me the most amazing you know partner for this journey the best humbler in all the world because how many times would i come home no it was but i know it god knows i needed it dream crusher dream crusher when i walk home from you know just having

you know had whatever thousands of you know people cheering for your music and you know wherever it was and I remember I'd come home and she'd say it's all great I know they loved you and Des Moines last night but today I just need you to take out the trash and change a diaper and just be you know be the guy you know I need you to be and I'm very very grateful and thankful for that because that's been an important part of the journey you know it's I think we spoke about the chariot-of-fire quote at breakfast where you run because you feel the glory of God, which is amazing. I think that hits me, and it gets me so excited and inspired to, like, find that thing, right?

Yeah. But also, when you have 49 number ones, you run because sometimes you feel a glory of man, you know, like, wow, this is like 49 number one. So, like, just making, I guess making sure you don't lose that first part of, like, no, no, no, this is like the, this is the purpose is because God has given me this gift that I need to steward well. It's like, dang. how do you not lose that and the noise of everything else but yeah anyway uh i think especially

too with i think when like the four of us sitting here super competitive right who's not competitive sitting you know i mean i don't want to lose at checkers i don't trust me this may be the most competitive of the four of us like i don't play games with my don't and she doesn't have any gold medals or I don't win Candyland. If they win, but I'm not going to, like, oh, you're a noble

one, like, no, they're going to learn, you know, so I'm, I'm competitive with, you know, but I think that when you have that personality, you're driven, you're competitive, your, in whatever it is, you're doing if you don't lose sight of, you know, wanting to

feel God's pleasure in what he's gifted you to do. But that is really, really hard because I'm like, I'm his wife I'm like 49 straight up. I want 50. I'm going to say it. Well, who doesn't? Who doesn't want 50 number one?

I'm going on record. Like 50, that sounds better than 49. Let's go. But it's just like, what do you, what do you, how do you do? And then how do you just give that back to the Lord to go? It's all yours at the end of the day. Can't take any of it with us. So, yeah, it's hard.

It's hard. Well, truly. I think this is one of my favorite interviews we've ever done. The amount of wisdom you guys have is, really inspiring and just reassures hopefully everybody listening that marriage is cool and still worth it

I feel like it gets too much for a bad rap these days it does, doesn't it? And it's awesome but truly thank you and your new album still. Yes. Everyone's so excited for it. It'll turn to number 50 with this one. Thank you. It will. It will. Spoken by real

SJ. Yes, the real real SJ. No, no, no. I'm number two as day for sure but you guys truly thank you it's been truly an honor to have you guys oh thank you and for those listening that want to learn more about step and curtis and mary beth we'll link information on them down below as well as the information on how you can go check out stephen curtis chapman's newest album called still out this fall congratulations thank you thanks for the time guys thank you guys thanks for what you're doing yes it's good thank you stuff