Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 138 | Judah and Chelsea Smith

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

Today we got to interview Judah and Chelsea Smith- the lead pastors of “Churchome” - a church in Los Angeles, CA. Not only are they incredible people, but they have incredible insight on all things related to relationships and they’ve been married for nearly 23 years! You don’t want to miss this one! Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew This episode is sponsored by Levels ▶ If you want to better understand how food affects your health and try a continuous glucose monitor yourself, go to https://levels.link/eastfam to learn more. This episode is also sponsored by Better Help ▶ Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://BetterHelp.com/EASTFAM Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?l... Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. what's up everybody welcome back to couple things with Sean and Andrew a podcast all about couples and the things they go through today was a fun one Chelsea and Judith Smith yes I've been trying to get them on the show for a long time they are pastors they co-paster church you may have heard

their names because they are the pastors and leaders of a church of some of the highest and most like well-known celebrities in Hollywood such as Justin Bieber that's right and you know I didn't know what to expect coming in, but I was pleasantly surprised. We laughed a lot. I thought they were hilarious. They also said some really perspective changing things. I thought, and I would love to hear your perspective on this as well. Anyway, I think you'll enjoy this one. If you want to find out more about Chelsea, Judah, and their church, it's called Church Home, they also do it virtual, which is awesome. We'll link that down below. But thank you to Chelsea and Judah. If you have any other suggestions for guests you want us to have on please let us know we love doing this we are

currently coming at you live from uh you recognize this from the house tour there you go also you may have noticed that there's another show going live on this channel never tmi i have been waiting for this podcast for months i am a huge fan of jaclin okay i got a rant for a second because she's on instagram and she would post these stories where she would write out like essays in every single story frame and it was like insightful like from the soul just wisdom about relationships and marriage and how she was struggling through something or working through something with her husband and now she's turned that all into a podcast and i'm her number one fan i will be the first listen to every episode it's so good there it's her and her husband

set who are doing this you just need to listen to it if you liked our show because we share a lot of personal details, then you will love their show. No, there's is better. There's this better. They go into, in depth. Like, never TMI. It's called never TMI.

Find it wherever you find podcast and the family made media YouTube channel. Jacqueline said, well done. Enjoy this one with Chelsea and Judith Smith. Wait, how did you guys meet? So, believe it or not, we were one of those church arranged marriages. Our moms were friends when they were pregnant with us,

literally in church. joked about having, you know, oh, we will have a boy and girl and they will get married someday. And so we literally probably met in the church nursery. We can't remember where we met. Our families went on vacation together every month. And we have two older sisters who were really good friends. And so they would try to set us up and ditch us. And so when we were 10, 11, we started liking each other, but didn't really go out until like go steady. I don't know what it was called these days until I was in eighth grade. Yeah, I was a seventh grade or dating an eighth grader i don't want to get into it oh wow you're the cool guy well she made

me the cool guy if i was yes yeah i don't know what they're calling it but it's not going steady i don't think that's what they're saying i think that was 60s or 70s there's so much i don't know that's the funniest thing i've heard all day i don't know what they're calling it guys but i don't think it's not i feel i actually had we have a friend who desperately wants to start a website where it's like updating parents on lingo just that's it that's brilliant right or at least an instagram account because yeah i ask my kids all the time so what does this mean and what i really get wrong is the acronyms that aren't even called acronyms what are they called well uh clichés no that i oh what are they called whatever i'm like oh i don't know it's like an l-ol or

whatever yeah what are they called yeah i'm just i don't know what you girls are talking about. I'm just here for the ride. Just wait. Just wait. Listen, but Sean, the website needs to also, like, tell parents what they can't say. Like, I'm 44. I can't say Liddy. You know, that's so lit. Liddy. Like, you know what I mean? So the website has to also say, like, words you can't say. You're not allowed to. It'll, like, script it out. If you're over 40, these are not for you. If you're, yeah. Exactly.

Yes. Yeah. Tell your friend, we will sign up for. her website. Yes. Parents everywhere are begging. You've known each other your whole life, though. Yeah, so basically we're arranged marriage, right? Moms were pregnant together, best friends.

Let's have a boy and a girl, get them to get married. And her last name was Smith, no relation from best we can tell. But here we are. No, but I think our saving grace was that in high school, we lived in different cities. His family moved from Portland to Seattle to start the church that we now lead. And so because we were in different cities in high school, I think there was still a little bit a mystery that when we connected back together in college it was yeah it was it wasn't quite so brother-sister and then i feel i feel like we'll we're going to like try to skim as fast as we can

through like this so we can get to like the deep-hitting questions but i'm curious were you both raised so you're both raised in the same church same beliefs how did you both become leaders of the church so very different path his parents are pastors so he just kind of knew I guess you can speak for yourself. For me, my parents are incredible business leaders and my dad had this dream that his daughters would take over his business with him. And I just, probably when I was about 17, 18,

I really felt called into ministry. I'm like my air quotes called, who knows what that means, but just felt a nudge to go that way. And so I started working for my church and was going to school to be a high school guidance counselor. So I figured that was a good, like, safe bet. In case I couldn't figure out how to be in ministry. And because there wasn't a clear path, especially for women, back in the mid-90s, for how to be in church leadership.

And so I was heading that direction. And then college, we reconnected. And it just kind of worked for us to dive in together. Yeah. And I'm a seventh generation preacher. So we're going on seven generations. And my sister already, her oldest, is already a preacher. So that's eight generations now.

Pretty crazy. Our kids don't seem too interested in. No, I'm not sure my kids want to be preachers these days. They certainly love God and love Jesus. And we love them. That's great. Did you ever date anybody else, either of you? Not to dig up bones, but.

I did for sure. I did for sure. Wow. Did Chelsea get around? Relax. Just a couple of boyfriends. Judah didn't date anybody, but he did kiss a girl in truth or dare in eighth grade. Wow.

I didn't kiss anybody. Well, no, I did actually. Never mind. Are you joking right now? Like, you didn't kiss anybody? Anyone? Oh, my word. This is getting out of control. We have started to lie now. Kidding, that's kidding. What was the, can I hear the proposal story? I just, I take Judah is like this, you know, over-the-top romance kind of guy.

Yeah, Andrew, thank you so much for asking. Listen, I panicked, all right? And it didn't go well. We were at Monoma Falls for those. Oh, really? Oh, I didn't know that. I was saying that I thought you didn't like it. I put a ring in the main of a little stuffed animal lion. It's the only proposal all over again, so I loved it. Well, hopefully. We went to the falls, and my sister was hiding in the bushes, taking photos with what I believe was a disposable Kodak camera.

It was 99. And I got on my knee, and then I said something to the effect of, you're the only woman I've ever loved and will you marry me and she started to weep and cry she ran I ran after her I'm kidding like I add a bunch of stuff you know like no

and I tackled her like wait what she said yes and so like I said November 5th will be 23 years crazy wow dang

love of my life one of the things I've heard you talk about um chelso i think you said it is how both have uh pretty different personalities and i feel like in the dating process nowadays first of all shot and i are we just think marriage is the coolest best thing ever you hear all the easiest thing ever no but the coolest thing it's kind of like you hear like you hear like the self-help coaches talk about like you know you wake up in the morning take a cold bath and that's great for you and like do the hard things i feel like marriage is the hardest thing that ultimately is the like the benefit is itself help right like I have grown so

much as a man because of our marriage in ways that I otherwise wouldn't have done it but when people are dating and like looking for a spouse it's like oh whether it's you know people talk about zodiac signs or enneagram numbers and it's like we're just different like we're not meant to be and you talk about how you have different personalities and are different in so many ways what is your approach like in reconciling that or is it like is it a discouragement was it ever how do you think about that I think when we first I mean we've always known that we're pretty different but for an executive coaching with our leadership team at church a couple of years ago we had a coach come in and took us all did the not the any group of the Myers-Briggs

personality test or either introvert extrovert think or feeler and he went through all of it got all of our tests and course there's a group of us and he looked at Judah's results and my at my result and he looked at us he's like and you guys were married like and he goes He literally looked at us and said, in front of a bunch of people who were leading church with, he goes, happily. We're like, yeah. And this is something that he does often for executive coaching, and he was just shocked. But I think actually, since we talked about how we met, I think what has made it work for us is that even though our personalities are very opposite, our beliefs are the same. Because we grew up very similarly in the same church with the similar, our parents both parented us very similarly in their parenting styles.

And I think that has created enough similarity, whereas I think the difference in our personalities has made us better, maybe, hopefully. Yeah, I think so. And I don't want to get too granular. Obviously, our incredible listeners know that Chelsea and I pastor of church and stuff. But like the concept of Jesus and the beauty of Jesus is probably, not probably, like it just is. it Jesus seems to invite you into this honest broken place which is honest you know and so I think Chelsea and I get to work from every day that we're nightmares like we're broken we're not we're

pretty selfish of this morning I was in the bath at 850 and we're supposed to start this at 9 a.m and she's like are you actually serious right now bro like you're still in the bathtub like grow up right and I'm like I'll be there on time you know so I barely made it but like this I idea of like I can admit at the beginning of every day like I'm broken I'm selfish I'm self-serving I need Jesus and she kind of does the same thing and it so it it kind of evens the playing field every day and if I've learned anything about marriage like it doesn't really matter what marriage was yesterday it doesn't matter what your marriage is going to be tomorrow it's like all you have in your marriage like anything else is right now and today and today humbling yourself saying

hey I need you I love you I'm not mad at you will you forgive me I'm an idiot but but but but our worldview and our take on the teachings of jesus and the ways of jesus almost encourage and invite us to put our weaknesses proclivities temptations on the table and go this is who i really am and this is what i'm going through and so as a result i think chels and i get to kind of bond every day in a weird sort of way that like oh man without each other most importantly jesus we're we're up a creek without a paddle as they say like who says that up a creek with that that's not what they're saying that's not what they're saying Going steady up the creek.

Andrew, please keep us on. Isn't that? Bro. Some serious editing is going to happen here. I am curious, though, when you guys decided to get married and kind of go down this path of being leaders of the church, was there any part of you guys that felt pressure being on such a stage while being married? because I feel like to a certain extent, there is so much expectation put on leaders of a church

to look and act a certain way and not be human. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. I wrestled so much because I'm such an introvert, because I'm quiet. I would really happy, I'd be very happy behind the scenes. That was a real wrestle for me. Thank God we were young, and thank God when we wrestled through it.

There was no social media. This is early, late 90s, early 2000s. look at people who choose to be leaders now knowing, I think we didn't know. We were ignorant. We didn't know what 2022 is going to be. And so we just said yes and just kind of went along the path and grew in the process. I look at people who say yes to any form of public leadership now. And I just think you are such a hero because you know what you're going, you're getting into. And well done. Yeah, honestly, I think about both of you guys. And I think, you know, in your in your 30s, you're you're both right around 30. And, and I admire. I admire. I have,

admire the kind of platform and leadership that both of you have experienced at such a young age. We're both 44 and we were kind of dumb, stupid, and happy. And just we're like, yeah, we'll preach. We'll speak. Wait, the board's like, you know, your dad's facing cancer. We believe you're supposed to be the pastor. And I was like, all right, yeah. And nowadays, to be honest, Sean, like, I feel pressure every day. A buddy of mine recently, we were just sitting by a fire one night crying and talking about the pressure of leadership. And he said, you know, I just don't think it's God's plan that every day of our life we are fearful that we're going to make a decision that's going to unravel everything

and undo. I don't think that's God's plan. And I started crying and he started crying because we both, he's in a different industry, but we both feel like at any moment we're going to make a decision that's going to get us canceled and we're going to lose everything we love and hurt the people we love the most. And I just started thinking like he did, that's that. can't be God's plan for my every day. And so learning just to kind of almost take that fear of being canceled, which is such an interesting concept now in our culture and the rise of the last

five years, and just giving it to God and saying, hey, Chelsea and I have a saying, like, if we're going down for this, we're going down. The other day, should I say what I said last night? I was like, well, I was just saying, like, I want to have sex with you everywhere. And she's, and I'm like, but, you know, we can't nowadays because people have cell phones and phones. And she's like, I don't care if we go down for that? Like, I wish you would, you know? So, like, it's kind of those things. It's like, all right, let's just go have sex in an airplane. And if we get canceled, we get canceled. But we want to have fun and we want to enjoy our life. We only have one and we want to do it together. And we want to love each other and keep this adventure fun and spicy. But there is that

pressure and that fear that I think you have to at least express to each other and then give to God every morning in the bathtub. And then get it cut off by having to do an interview with Sean and Andrew. I do look at you too, though, and it's with admiration of the courage that you have, because I think at least me personally, I don't know if we've had this conversation together, but I look at, I played football in the SEC kind of right in the wake of Tim Tebow, and he was always like my hero, right? And we had him and his wife, Demi Lee, on the show.

And I was reflecting back on how my life has changed. And, you know, we've now had this podcast and this following, whatever, over the past 10 years. And how I've kind of backed down from the challenge of like, you look at Tim Tebow or you guys. And you explicitly have higher standards, right? And like that takes so much courage to say, okay, I am leading a church. and I know that with that comes expectations and standards and all this, you know, it does come with pressure. And I looked at it and I said personally at some point, I was like, I don't know if I have, I don't know if I have the courage or the wherewithal to like take that on. But as I'm getting

older and seeing how important it is to like use the voice that we've been given for like for a purpose and like share this message. It's like, don't let the high expectations scare you away. Like that's, if anything, it's like a, it's a worthy mountain to climb that should get you excited and not scared. So I don't know. That's more of a personal take, but I admire you guys. And, I mean, Andy, thank you for admitting that because that's how we all feel.

And, you know, me and some of my buddies and some of my athlete friends, even Timmy, you know, pressure is a privilege. And we welcomed this. I mean, look at, you know, your superstar wife. I mean, pressure is a privilege. Sean moved right towards the pressure. That may be the highest pressure you can imagine in American athletic sports, you know, being a gymnast. And yet, you know, you just welcomed that and you went after it.

And so I'm constantly trying to embrace that. I dreamed of having pressure like this. Andrew, you played in the SEC, bro. That's the NFL. That's better than the NFL, okay? So we've learned to embrace the pressure and say, God, what an honor and what a privilege. is that my life has this pressure and I mean both of you are doing it every day man if you don't hear anything else today from chelso and i please know that we admire how you have walked towards

the pressure you don't have to you you could have just disappeared you know from the public eye and both just go enjoy your life um you i love the style everything the aesthetic you know but you decided to continue to move towards pressure and and as a result it benefits us and many other people millions of people around the world. Yeah, I think too, even what Judah was talking about, how every morning we wake up and admit to each other that we're broken, I think trying to do that on a leadership level as well. And I know for me growing up in the church, it felt like church leaders were superhuman. It felt like they didn't have struggles, temptations. They didn't seem to have everyday life struggles. And I think we're trying to be a little bit more honest about that

as leaders. I'm like, nah, we got the same everyday life struggles anybody else has and maybe here's how we're fighting them and hopefully overcoming them but trying to be a bit more personal and human in leadership absolutely and i think we're doing that to relieve the pressure i don't think we're doing it to try to help i mean hopefully we're helping people but just to relieve pressure on ourselves yep we're just super average that's yeah i guess that kind of touches on uh again one of the things i've heard you say where it's uh people won't fault you for owning your mistake the only fault you if you make a mistake and don't like accept like publicly stated i think that's what you guys do so well is like uh you're not perfect and you kind of joke about it but it makes you that much

more relatable and i think that much of a better servant leader um but another thing you guys do that sean and i don't really touch on is touch on like uh relevant hot topic issues like i know you've spoken about i think you did an interview about the roe v wayd juda you i think talked about masturbation at one point. It's like, man, you don't shy away. A big F word. I've never said that word, I don't think, publicly out loud. So here we are. I'm so honored that we could be here for this moment. So great. Yeah. But it's amazing. Like you, you don't shy away. And I don't know how you, how do you not shy away when it's such a hot topic? Yeah. I mean, man, I think I can honestly say like in in in in both of those instances amongst others is I kind of came by it honestly and

and I think both chelsen I are at a place you know we're we're definitely at halftime in fact the third quarter might have already started in our life and um crazy thought like you know I love the sports metaphors listen they are just beginning okay I love sports metaphors but we're in the third quarter uh with the you know and I don't know if we get the kick off at the third quarter but the point is like I think there is a point in your life where you're like, man, I just got to tell people, this is who I am, and this is what's going on, and this is what we're facing, and, you know, you guys know this. People are going to talk good, bad, ugly, indifferent. The point is people are going to talk regardless, and we just wanted to be candid and honest. And I think

both Chels and I are passionate about really building bridges and not walls with people all over the world, particularly people who are scared by organized religion, scared by faith, scared by Christianity, scared by the church. We wanted to be like that couple that maybe lessens the barrier a little bit, that instead of like a wall going up, they can kind of see maybe a footpath that's being built. That's like, well, bro, those guys actually are Jesus people. Anybody could be Jesus people. Like, anybody can know Jesus. And in a way, that's kind of how we've started to move. And I'm not saying it's not messy and sometimes painful, but man, it feels like such a privilege. And it's also sustainable. I think Chelsea and I are super passionate about whatever is sustainable, oftentimes is a

sign of like, this must be God's plan because we can do this every day, as opposed to, you know, I did that one day, but I could never do, you know, sustain that for the rest of my life. Yeah, I think sustainable, but also honest, obviously honesty with discretion. We have our own life that is our private life that we want to keep private. But even you're doing, you know, the masturbation Also, I don't think I've said it very often, that word publicly. It honestly came up in a conversation that Jude and I were having, and I didn't know if he was going to go there, but I was grateful that he was honest about it.

And I do think there is something about honesty that can take the pressure off. If we are pretending to be people that we aren't in leadership, that's a lot of pressure. That's a lot to live up to in and of ourselves. But I feel like if we're honest about stuff, even if it is controversial, feel, you know, at least it's us being honest and true to ourselves, but with discretion. Totally. Let's take a minute to thank our sponsor for today's podcast, BetterHelp.

BetterHelp has been so helpful to us in the season of life. There are a lot of stressors lately. It feels like. What do you think? I think so, too. The holiday's coming up. I can always expect there to be some added stress, especially as a parent. Especially as a parent to toddlers.

I have been finding myself chatting with my therapist online more than usual. That's definitely for sure. Really? Yes. You good? You? I'm good. It really is great.

The BetterHelp gives you all these different ways to chat with your online therapist. You could do it online via video chat. You can do it on the phone. You could do it just via text chat. It's awesome. And for those of you who don't know BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video, phone, even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to.

It's much more affordable than in-person therapy. Give it a try and see if online therapy can help lower your stress. A couple things is sponsored by BetterHelp, and our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash EastFam. That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P-E-L-P-E-Fam. All right, so we had Stephen Curtis Chapman and his wife on. Oh, I know. I love that guy. Legends, dude.

Oh, man. Settle up your horses. We got a trail to blaze. Listen, guys, we could do karaoke after the interview. Oh, okay. That was so good. But one of the, he just came out with the new album. And one of the things we had discussed was this guy's had 49 number ones, right?

Like, I know it's insane, insane. He cranks out jams. But we were speaking about. Andrew, I don't know people are saying jams. I don't think anyone says cranks out jams, bro. I don't think anyone says cranks out jams. I just don't think that's it. that's like what my grandma would say

he grids up jams I'll use that for the rest of my life thank you for that oh my gosh all right we'll work on that but no I appreciate that but we're speaking about ambition from the Christian perspective because what an interesting line

you guys have been such innovators and I don't know entrepreneurs for the for lack of a better term with like the church home and really doing cutting-edge things with the church. But how do you balance, and even writing books, how do you balance that ambition with not seeking manly praise as much as just trying to spread the kingdom, if that makes sense?

I love that question. Man, I do too. I think, yeah, I think I love what, I love how Paul writes in the New Testament in a number of ways. obviously he's inspired by the Holy Spirit and the canon and all that. But I love when he starts talking about like his plans and he says, you know, if the Lord wills. So he'll be like, hey, I'm going to come see you this summer. I'm going to come, I'm going to get a ship and we're going to sail over to you if the Lord wills. I'd love to see you this season if the Lord

wills. Please come visit me, you know, and bring so and so with you, you know, if the Lord wills and there's this open-handed posture that paul i think seems to promote which is like hey every day it's like man plans his way but the lord directs his steps and i think god thinks our plans are adorable a lot like when our two-year-old you know colors something in church and brings it to us after church and we're like oh buddy what is it he's like it's a dinosaur daddy and you're like oh buddy it looks like a fire truck you know and you just think it's adorable i think that's our plans with God. I think God, I want to be a preacher someday. And he's like, oh, what is it? A dinosaur or a fire truck? You're adorable. Meaning, I think God wants just to connect. I think he wants

to partner. He wants relationship. He wants intimacy. And I think what we do for him is cute. I don't think he needs us to do it for him, but I think he thinks it's cute. And what does that do? It puts it in perspective. I think we put way too much emphasis on career because we're Western world dwellers and we think like career is everything. But actually, I think connection is everything. connecting with God and enjoying him and him enjoying you is kind of the goal. And so when we make our plans is just holding them open-handed to be like, God, I trust you. And I guess all I'm saying is the goal every day for me is like, God, what do you have for my day? I want to partner with you today. You direct me. You guide me. You lead me. And I know all these things are cliches and

they're so prominent in church, so much so that it's like elevator music and we don't hear it anymore. But I think the point is every day walking with Jesus. And I'm constantly inspired by those 12 knuckleheads who follow Jesus around, who were absolute nightmares, by the way. Peter does most of the talking. But every day was like Jesus would get up and they'd be like, where'd he go? And he'd like, oh, he went to talk to God, which he is God. And then he'd come back and he'd like, all, guys, let's go. And they'd all get up, grab their stuff and they'd start following Jesus. I think that's still the objective. That's still the goal is to get up every day and be like, after I've made a schedule, Chelsea loves the schedule. And so we make the schedule. And then it's

like, God, but lead us today, you know, guide us today. Even, you know, coming on with Sean and Andrew, it's like, okay, guide us today in the conversation. Like, you are the orchestrator and the leader. And to me, that sounds like the great adventure, which I think is a Stephen Curtis Chapman lyric. I don't want to get into it. But I get excited about that. And even Chelsea's personality, I think you get excited about it too. Yeah, and I think that if we're truly just following Jesus and in the sense of, hey, we're just doing what he's asking us to do, I think that can lead us to a place another verse in the Bible

that seems a little paradoxical is godliness with contentment is great gain. It's like, wait, are we supposed to have contentment or are we supposed to have great gain? Because it's seeming like it's telling us to have both. And I think the answer is yes, we're supposed to have contentment and we're supposed to have great gain. And so some of my gauge always for, are we being too ambitious, are we stepping outside of ourselves, are we not following Jesus, is truly looking into my heart saying, am I, am I content? Do I have a contentment? If this was all we ever accomplished in life, if this was all we ever did, if this was all the money we ever made, would it be enough? And truly making sure that we are in a place of contentment while we're still trying to achieve great gains in the things that we're pursuing. Can I have to follow up on that? I know you have a question, I'm sorry.

But one, there's a book that I read when I was maybe 13 years old. It's called Just Do Something. And it sparked, it's by Pastor Kevin DeYoung, I think. And it sparked me like this perspective of, hey, we're going to like make mistakes. But the important thing is to engage and get, you know, activated into the thing. And that way, like, I'm walking down a path and then I can get redirected through it. And to your credit, I think you do a great job at that. but I want to hear so you've spoken previously about how your goals have changed and like

you wanted to you want to do to write a bestselling book and then you know now you're at this point where that seems so small and irrelevant it didn't have really an impact on your on your life but how have you how has the concept of contentment changed as you've grown together and just like deeper in in the spirit oh I would say say it's probably, speaking of honesty, getting more honest with ourselves and with our friends and with our relationships. And yeah, you mentioned Judah wrote a book that made it to the New York Times bestseller list that seemed like, wow, this is really going to be life changing. And when we woke up the next morning, we were still ourselves. We still had our marriage. We still had our kids.

Our finances were the same. It's like, wow, that quote unquote success actually didn't bring happiness it actually just kind of brought a little bit more pressure and now all of a sudden the second book that it didn't live up to that ma'am that made it really difficult for book number two and so i just think just being honest with some of what the world would call successes actually didn't bring happiness and acknowledging that to ourselves and each other and people in our world and being able to realize no our priority actually is our relationship with each other and with God and with our children and making sure that we're doing what God asks us to do and then leaving the results up to him.

So true. And I think that's where me and some of my buddies came up with a concept of better at 70. I even got a tattoo. I don't want to get into it. I'm tatted. I don't want to get into it. But we got tattoos late night like 3 a.m. in Switzerland one night and they're better at 70.

They say better at 70. And it was this idea of like, let's just get better with age. And all of a sudden it occurred to me like someday I'm going to be 70 and I'm not going to in the mix. I'm not going to be like in the culture. I'm not going to be like, we're going to be 70. And frankly, people will be like, who's that guy? Or even some of my friends, you know, they're going to forget about the great accomplishments and the big hits in music and the big hits on the screen. And we're going to be 70. And will we be happy? And will we be content? And so there's this idea we've all got that on our 70th birthday, we're going to throw the biggest

party we've ever had in our whole life. And we're just going to celebrate the fact that it's 70 years old. We're out of the mix. I won't live in Los Angeles when I'm 70. I can promise you that or Seattle. I'll live somewhere, you know, like, I don't know, Como, Italy, and would just be hanging and drinking some really nice wine and laughing and loving Jesus. And I'm going to love the same woman. And I hope that she's 70 years old in a freaking bikini and we're just doing it in Lake Como. So that's that's kind of, I just want to get better with age and I want to get bored adventurous and more fun and just fall more in love with Jesus and love my grandkids when they start coming and man we want grandkids so that's where we're at a couple things is sponsored by

levels health levels is a game changer speaking of yours keeps going off that's right my glucose is high right now it's a little nerve-wracking i mean you did drink a gatorade and had like a cinnamon sugar large pretzel but anyways we've been working with them for about a year now and it's made such an impact on how we track our glucose for those of you that don't know levels helps you see how food affects your health by giving you real-time feedback on your diet using a continuous glucose monitor. I have one on right there. Jet likes to grab it and sometimes rip it off. But I've been wearing mine every day since I've gotten it. And it's been months now. I think maybe even come up on a year. I get a lot of questions about it, but I can't recommend it enough because

it's really changed my diet and my routines. Yeah. It has really made a significant difference in the way we track glucose data, especially as it relates to our diet and fitness. I've also been working on cutting certain things out of my diet because being able to see how it affects my glucose has really helped with that entire process. And in the long run, it's helped how I felt on a day-to-day basis. It's amazing. I have more energy because of the changes I've made from my levels data. I've actually, to give an example, I have learned firsthand that grapes do not respond well to my body, but like pizza is great. And also the timing of when. So if I eat pizza after workout, it goes way better than if I eat like pizza for lunch, then I have a crash. Anyway,

If you want to better understand how food affects your health and try a continuous glucose minor to yourself, go to levels.com to learn more. They also have a really well-researched in-depth blog that we recommend checking out if you're just looking to learn more about topics like metabolic health, longevity, and nutrition. We'll also link it down below and let's get back to it. The dynamic between you two. You parent together, married together, lead together, work together. How does that work?

How does that bleed over? How do you separate business life from home life and navigate that? That is such a good question. And I wish there wasn't. I wish I had a beautiful formulaic easy answer to that question. Formulaic. Is that a word? Formulaic, yeah.

Wow. I never heard that one. I never heard that word. Maybe it's not a word. I could have just made it up. Andrew and Chelsea are like, yeah, that's a word. We know that. Yeah.

I'm like, I've never heard it. It's beautiful. I wish I could give you a formula. better. This is exactly how we've done it and made it work. And it has not been easy. It has been trial and error fights and resolutions and seasons of ministry changing, kids changing. And it's honestly felt like every time we felt like we've had it figured out, a season changed, a job changed, a kid grew up and entered into a new season. So I think it is, if I could give one answer, it would be being soft and being moldable and being pliable and being willing to change.

and adjust and listen and learn and be adaptable and just being able to go through it. But also needing to know the lesson I did not learn early enough in our marriage was what I needed. And I would just fit to his schedule, his routine, what he needed, which is no schedule, no routine. And I was feeling like I didn't accomplish anything and totally losing not having great sleep or great energy on my part. And so needing to know, hey, this is what I need as an individual.

to bring my best to the table and honoring that that's how God made me and to do what God asked us to do, it's going to be through how God made me to be. And so making sure to honor that and myself as an individual as we're together as a couple so much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just said it perfectly. I would summarize it to say, you can make a decision in your life. You can be a talker teacher or you can be a listener learner. And the difference is so stark as you get older. it gets worse as you get older, in our experience. You get a little bit of experience in a particular category or subculture like church, and you become the talker teacher.

And all of a sudden, you're 44 in a room of 25 year olds. You're the talker teacher. Wait a minute. Says who? What if you were the listener learner? What if in a room of 18 year olds, even though I'm 44, I became the listener learner. And I think Chelsea and I have experienced enough pain and enough loss and a enough like mystery that every season we're just going, all right, we're listener learners again.

We're listener learners again. I mean, we just started our podcast last season and it's like we have no idea how to podcast. We are listener learners again. We have an 18 year old now. We've never had an 18 year old before. We are listener learners again. And I think that's a decision everybody can make in every different arc and trajectory and season of life where they're just like, I'm listener, learner again. And that posture like Mary crisscross applesauce in front of Jesus when Martha's in the kitchen, that Jesus said Mary chose the good part. She chose the good part sitting in front of Jesus and saying, I'm listener and I'm learner. Teach me, man. Like I'm down. And by the way, that makes for a nicer friend, makes for a better spouse, makes for a more enjoyable parent. Like when your dad and mom are

listener learners. Can you imagine being a teenager in 20, 22? I tell my kids all the time. I have no idea what it's like to be 15, 13, 13, 18 in this culture, in this time. Teach me. Tell me what it's like. What does it feel like? Help me kind of know what you're going through. And boy, it's amazing how that breeds connection and intimacy in marriage, parenting, friendships, relationships, because people love to say, can I tell you what I've learned? And when you're a listener and a learner, people are like, bro, thank you for letting me kind of express myself. And then you're like, no, no, no, no, bro, thank you for letting me learn and listen to your story. So I love that. I think that's a way of life for Chelsea and I. I'm not sure when we picked that up or who exactly

taught us that. But it just occurred to us that we actually are. We do need to learn and we don't know most things. Going off of the teenager in 2022, I feel like we've interviewed a few different people. You've even said it too, that you were with a friend that mentioned

you don't feel like the human heart or the human being is meant to endure this much like everything, fame and attention and temptation. I feel like we live in a world with more temptation, more human error, mistakes, sin, polarization like judgment evil than we've probably ever seen how would you guys answer the question to like skeptical millennials skeptical kids who are like marriage isn't a thing of the past there's no way someone will be loyal there's no way like marriage is the old Christian thing it's the old

thing why why would you encourage marriage to people anymore well i mean i'll just I'm being, Sean, because I think we have to kind of step back one step and go, wait a minute, like let's not get caught up on the word marriage. Let's step back and redefine it. You mean to tell me that a committed connection and relationship human to human is antiquated or going out of style? That's outrageous, right? That's not even good logic. We know moving forward as human beings still exist, this idea of like, you're my person and I'm going to commit to you. And I'm going to you and I'm going to give you my eyes, my heart, my body. When that goes out of style, we got a much bigger problem on our hands than, you know, I don't know, hydrogenated oils

and red 40, right? I mean, we got, this is, this is huge. Like, if we lose sight of the imperativeness of human beings saying, I'm going to commit to one human being that I see and I'm to give you my everything, then I think we're missing a lot of the purpose of life and why we all exist in the first place. So this unraveling of these committed exclusive relationships, I think actually starts to erode at some of the essential foundational elements of culture and our constructs. And so, and I'm not trying to be exaggerative. I'm not trying to be like, you know, Christians are always protecting marriage. No, no, no, no, I'm actually trying to be reasonable. Like, if you remove the backbone of so many cultures, which is people actually saying,

I'm going to protect this human, I'm going to commit to this human, and I'm going to love her, him. Right? That's, oh, man, we lose that and everyone's kind of a free for all. Traffic doesn't even work that way. That's like saying we don't need freeways anymore and we don't need dotted lines on the pathway anymore and there are no such thing as boundaries. out boundaries and you really only have chaos. So I'd like to pretend that a lot of the healthy nature of our culture, really you can ascribe to some of the human beings that are still committed in a, in relationship to one another. My commitment to my mom, my commitment to my kids, my commitment to my best friends, it moves a lot like a freeway with boundaries and traffic.

And though the traffic can get bogged up, like we're still moving and we're making progress. So I see committed relationships and intimate relationships essential to the constructs of our culture. I'm so hyped right now. Dude, I'm hyped up. That was effing. Thank you. Sorry to cut you off, Chelsea. Go ahead.

Sean looks at Andrew like, all right, buddy. No, I love. I was just going to add in to what we tell our kids specifically is, and this is such a name job, name drop. But we did on our podcast and interview with. Justin Haley Bieber. And it was so amazing for us to sit down and talk with them. And Justin's had all of the experiences that the world has to offer. And he is a really young man, chose to get married because he had seen enough to know marriage is actually the greatest thing on this planet other than our relationship with Jesus. And so we tell our kids that all the time. Hey,

if Justin who's seen everything, done everything, if he chose marriage, Mr. Justin, as we call them to the kids. Okay. I'm not for him. Yeah. But, you know, if he's chosen that, I think, we can learn some lessons there from people who have seen a lot done a lot been through a lot and truly learn from from them yeah yeah that's the cheat that we use and and we do but such a name drop sorry yeah well appreciate the invite on the podcast we would love to oh it's coming let me tell you um all right let me present you with a hypothetical situation oh chelsea and judah are in a bit of a argument but you have a church meeting that you're both walking into and leading or maybe it's a Sunday service what happens oh Andrew don't I wish that was just a hypothetical yeah well listen

I will tell you a funny story because it's not hypothetical speaking a podcast we were attempting to record one of our we did 42 episodes last year and I was so mad at Chelsea Remember what it was about? Oh, yes. Oh, you do? Okay, this has happened. Probably the first time in our marriage, I was resentful towards Judah for a,

he decided to throw a huge Fourth of July party. Oh, yeah. And I didn't want to do it. But he's like, don't worry, babe. I'll have it all handled, covered. He didn't. I ended up doing a lot. Oh, that's ridiculous.

I'm about decorations. I was in safe lane, buying drinks. I set up all the drinks. I cleaned the whole house. Do you need me to go on? Did you really do all that? I never, I never seen you do that. So we're here.

Thanks a lot, Andrew. Guess what? We're fighting right now. So here we are. It was like a week after Fourth of July. And Judah's like, I'm just so tired. I can't wrestle. Well, it's because you chose to throw this part.

And I totally threw it back in his face. Did that, you know, love supposed to keep no record of wrongs. I absolutely kept a record of wrongs. Look, I'm still keeping it. I still know all the things I did for that. Yeah. Yeah, I think we need to keep this podcast moving, babe. I think you bogged it down a little bit.

No, but the point is, Andrew, I tried, we tried to go on air with our producers and stuff, and we tried, it was one of those episodes where it was just us too. We had no guess, unfortunately, to create a diversion. And finally, the producer, she's so wonderful. She's like, hey, guys, hey, that was great. It was like 20 minutes in. Like, me interrupted us for the first time. This is probably our first.

Are you guys okay? Do you want to take a date? Why don't we just call it today? Literally, she said that, and she just called it. And she's like, let's pick it up next week or in a couple days. She had no idea that we were midnight. No idea. But she could tell.

She could tell, man. And boy, were we cooked. So we got off the air and we screamed it out and everything's great. We really did. I see it. Okay, but Sunday service is different because it's live. We can't just choose not to. There have been other times where we've just had to set our personal feelings aside and just.

Yeah, and say something like, I usually try to be like, hey, I'm so mad at you, but I love it. you so much, you know, and that somehow gets me okay to, like, go out there, but it's still like, we are not done with this, but I definitely love you and I hate saying that, but I need to because I'm going to go preach the gospel. I think it's honestly, the hardest part of arguments is, I feel like we so easily as human beings forget that the love is there. And it's like, I am so mad at you, but I do still love you, and it's fine, but I'm so mad at you. and you hurt me i don't forget that the love is there i don't know you just got to say it you just got

say it we didn't have one couple talk about when they're in an argument they always remind each other that they know how this argument ends and it's with them still married and so they just have to like you know work through to get to that point and i was like thing what a great way to view that where it's like all right we know that we know the end of this story let's how can we just resolve this temporary obstacle um i have a question and i don't i don't even know how to get to this question it's just thoughts that i've been circulating um it's maybe a bigger one as leaders of the church i feel like for us living in the south the the world of churches here is open to all air quotes like you would say but it's not they live by such construct of what they feel like the bible means and what

they allow. And I feel like for you guys leading a church in Los Angeles, California, where you have so many people that live in such an artistic way who are faced with massive temptation every second of their life on the biggest stages in the world, how do you lead a church of Christians within the construct of the belief, but still navigating, helping navigate them through some of the hardest brokenness of life. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I'm, yeah. Can I jump in? Please. Only because I'd love to answer this in hopes that some of my brothers and sisters in the South are, are listening, which I know they are, because I think I'm, we're West Coast kids. Like, people need to know that. We live in the Wild Wild West. And context is important. You know what I

mean? Like if we move to India, you better immerse yourself in the culture and the context. And so you're really right Sean like a lot of our like you know even bringing up the topic of masturbation people like that's crazy and you're like well when you live in LA and Seattle it's not that crazy but sorry in Alabama you know what I mean so there is a little bit of that that we that we kind of face Tim Tebow thinks I'm a psycho you know because he grew up in Florida so yeah no I love Timmy we just you just mentioned you know he always thinks I'm like what are you what are you talking about I'm like I don't know. I grew up in Portland, Seattle, and L.A.

But I think there's just one little thing I want to say, and that is we have to be very careful with Scripture, and here's what I mean. For instance, when you look at the ways of Jesus, the teachings of Jesus, and kind of even the footsteps of Jesus through the towns and villages that he traveled, which he didn't travel that much, right? It's like not even 100 square miles. It's less than that, right? and if you watch him lead his life and then lead the 12, there's a lot to be said there about how we are to relate to the culture and the world that we find ourselves in. The challenge becomes is if you, the juxtaposition of then the Pauline epistles, for instance, or other pastoral epistles, where these are small letters written to Christians living, for instance, in Philippi,

which was a thank you letter for the money, or Corinth, which was a huge hub of culture. here's my concern we take some of these pastoral epistles which are meant for the believer's life right like where it talks about you know the qualifications of an elder or a deacon or a church leader you know all those things which chels and i are really passionate about but we take these pastoral letters these these letters that are specifically for christians who want to learn how to live their life in the culture and we turn it public facing and we tell everybody in the whole wide world that this is the standard. And yet when you look at the life of Jesus, he's actually he's criticized for hanging out with knuckleheads, nightmares, and bad people. And yet when you look at the pastoral epistles, we are led to believe that somehow now our life is to be closed door, cut off the wickedness and the unrighteousness. And we kind of end up living our life like and I'm holding out my hands to the camera like with a distance if you can't see us and I actually think it's the exact opposite meaning I think we need to digest the pastoral epistles for

instance for us as believers but the moment we start turning that on the public and this is where I have concern with preachers sometimes because we teach pastoral epistles as we should but we podcast them to a seeking searching world who kind of go wait a minute and Andrew the only way I would describe this is when you're an SEC football player or Sean, when you're an elite gymnast, there are terminologies and concepts in football and gymnastics that public people like Chelsea and I, you should never try to explain. We're never going to understand how you land that jump, Sean. We're never going to understand Andrew how you play football in the SEC. Like we can't, and there's nuances, you know, all these terminologies that the world's never going to, we just want to know

like so Sean you won right so Andrew what position did you play did you score any touchdowns you know like that's what the public and I think when it comes to theology we've got to be very careful because this idea of the gospel it's the gospel that's the news that's so good for the world and then when you accept Jesus and you begin to follow him the process of development and discipleship you know is a lifetime and so I'm a little concerned sometimes because the public facing messaging of the Christians oftentimes is like trying to impose first and second Corinthians and all of its nuances on regular Joe who lives next door who's trying not to watch porn every night right but we're we keep telling Joe like hey brother

you need to live by the standard of God and Joe's like standard of God is there anyone that can save me from myself and so um that's a little bit of kind of why chelsen I live the life we live and even how we talk publicly is is always trying to engage Joe next door and make sure he knows that he is welcome here. He is loved and we are all nightmares trying not to compromise every day. Is that make any sense? Yeah, yeah. I think you're talking about differentiating between public conversations and private conversations and the epistles would have been a private conversation. And, you know, I look at Jesus when he handled the woman who was caught in the middle of adultery. And if you know the story, a woman was caught in the act of adultery, the religious

leaders threw her in front of Jesus and said, are you going to condemn her? And Jesus wrote in the dirt, people left. And then Jesus said, who was without sin? Throw the first stone. Everybody left. She looked up at Jesus and everybody gone, she said, Jesus said, where are your accusers? And she said, they aren't here. And then Jesus,

when he was in a private conversation with her, said, okay, go and sin no more. And that was a private moment. Oh, her iPod. Your pod's out. Sorry, guys.

Air pot. Air pot. Your pot? Nobody says, Earpot. Hey, Sean, we're giving your friend a head start. I'm like, things, definitely not. Just say, your pod. I tell you what.

That was a private conversation that Jesus had with that woman. But I find it so fascinating that Christians want us to have those conversations with people publicly when that was a private conversation that Jesus had. And I think as church leaders, we need to look at the text with awe. with awe and an austerity and realize we need to take it for what it is and differentiate between public and private conversations. And we don't have to have every conversation publicly. We don't have to say everything we believe from the pulpit. We don't have to say everything on the podcast. But in private conversations and private moments with people, man, we can say a whole

lot. Yeah. This is, you can tell this is a passion of ours. So we will like, we will jump in and we'll be here for three more hours because the nuances of this mean everything to us because I think we have assumed that every ounce of scripture is for everybody at all times and it's just not and that's and I'm not saying that all scripture is in God breathe and totally God given but you we're taking stuff out of context and we're serving it up to people it's not even for yet does that make sense well and you don't mind I was I asked that question because we feel the same way I was raised with my parents and my mom was actually terrified

to go to church because as a kid the church ran her family out of the church because they didn't follow the construct and my mom being raised by them and being watching this they had this belief that Christianity and God is for everyone but churches don't believe that

and she had a really unhealthy relationship with churches for a very long time because of this concept of our doors are closed unless you follow you know x y and z rule which i feel like is backwards for for the belief truly yeah do you guys do you have five extra minutes we do yeah yeah absolutely are you kidding me well because i'm curious um i have two more questions one is you guys create so much content you have the church services people can find online you have the app you have the podcast yeah um and we'll link all that down below and you are creating these these inputs for other people to like consume i'm curious on a personal level who

who do you guys consider your inputs in your life that help like shape your beliefs and how you approach life i'll give you a genuine answer it's been an interesting journey lately um a lot of those places where we have really received and gotten input from um There have been some leadership hurts and failures, and that's been a bit of a difficult journey for us, just personally. And I think that's part of halftime a little bit, is thinking, oh, okay, some of our heroes are still heroes, but aren't perfect. And that's been a rough season for us lately. Yeah, yeah. It's one of the most painful topics for us in the world.

I had a hero father who died 13 years ago of cancer, and I've always had dads in my life, not to name drop, but Bishop T.D. Jakes texts me yesterday, and how's my son? And I started crying. He's like, I know I'm not your only father, but I just, and I was like, no, I'm crying. You know, like, because I feel so in need of spiritual fathers right now, even though I'm 44. I find a lot of security in that. And so I love that scripture that says there are many teachers but few fathers, which by the way, I think what that really means is there's a lot of people who will tell you what to do and very few who will say, follow what I do, and walk with me while I do it. And I think that's what a dad does. I think a father and a mother don't say, listen

to what I say. They say, watch how I live, and that live like me. And that's hard right now, there's not a lot of people. And we live in the Wild West. And my life is crazy. And our life is crazy. And the places we find ourselves in, I'm like, what spiritual father do we call right now to ask for advice? Because this environment is nuts. And I don't really know how to totally navigate all this. I must say that, like, I have a group of brothers that we talk every single day. We talk about our brokenness every day. We have deep, deep candor. We send each other prayers every single day. I can't kind of live without it. It's a group about four or five guys and it's a diverse group. It's a wild group. If I said the group, people would be like, they're not

spiritual, you know, because some people know them and they are and these men have changed my life. So I have a lot of brothers. Not a lot of fathers right now. A lot of fathers are weary and tired and exhausted. And I think, can you imagine being 60, 70 years old in this culture? I think a lot of fathers right now don't know what to do. They're kind of out of their depth, any little word. You know, the Bible talks about making a man an offense or an offender for one word. And, sorry, Chelsea's motioning to our son. I thought she was motioning to me.

She goes off camera and I'm like, I thought she was like, you know, but she's not. She's not. But because it is such an intimate topic for me, I think I feel for the 60, 70-year-old spiritual leaders right now in the country, I don't think they know exactly what to do. I think every interview these men and women have, they're worried that they're going to say something that isn't totally right because the culture has changed so fast because the technological age has us all traveling at the speed of light, not the speed of life. And so I feel for my father's, but I do feel a little bit alone at times. Guys like Timmy the Tebow, you know, it goes a long way in my life. Tim and I have a very, very special friendship and relationship. I'll just expose him for a second. and he really encourages me and helps me to keep going.

And so I'm grateful for my brothers and my friends. And the few fathers I do have, I'm very grateful and obviously grateful for men like Bishop Jake's. Yeah, and I don't think that, I was not prepared for that to happen at midlife. When life kind of is let you lose fathers, but yet you gain brothers and sisters. And obviously we're talking about relationships, not literal brothers and sisters and literal fathers, but changing the way we do relationships. really making sure that we are relying on peers and friendships and having those people who

sharpen each other and make each other better. It's been an interesting season this last year for us, but I feel like we're going to look back and see God in it in such a beautiful way. And we're going to look back and realize, wow, God did something really incredible in that season that we're going to realize it's been amazing, but it hasn't been fun. And I think, oh, I mean, Andrew, we could talk for days. You know that. And I think, like, to me, the objective is, like, surrendered and surrounded, not to put it. in like cliches, but meaning like always checking in, am I surrounded and then am I surrendered? And I have noticed in different seasons, sometimes I want to isolate myself and not be surrounded,

you know, by brothers or fathers or mothers, you know, and then other seasons I'm surrounded, but I'm not really surrendered. I'm kind of surrounded with people who tell me what I want to hear so that I can do what I want to do. But I think that combination of surrendered and surrounded, and I get that from the apostle Paul, who says, if the Lord wills, if the Lord wills, if the Lord wills, in that same passage. I can't remember which book it's in, maybe Ephesians. But he eventually says, and he names like seven different people that by name. And I just felt like one day I was reading that, talking to God, and he's like, I want you to be surrendered, and then I want you to be surrounded. I want you to surround yourself with people. And oftentimes that's a challenge

for people. I can imagine people listening right now are going, wow, I would be surrounded, bro, but I don't have a hundred friends like you. Must be nice. That's not what I mean to say. I think you got to lean into relationship, you got a risk relationship, you got to meet your neighbor, I've become great friends with our neighbors here, and his name's Brian, and I just love Brian, and you've got to put yourself out there, and you've got to invite your neighbor over, and you've got to say, hey, I'd love to hang out. You know, like, it's funny as you get older, we kind of lose, like, the lunchroom dynamic of middle school, where you had to be like, hey, are you new here? Do you want to be friends? Do you want to eat lunch together? You know,

like we missed that. But as you get 44 and you're not 13 anymore, you still got to ask people, can we do lunch together? Are you new here? And that's hard to do. But that is the navigation of life as you get older is continuing to lean into friends and relationships because I think that's one of the primary reasons we're here. I love it. And circling back to what you said about commitment and committed relationships. This is such a small thing, but I had a mentor who every time he was like, hey, I would love to grab lunch with you. And I was very much of like the habit of like, yeah, I would love that too. And, you know, there's no follow up.

It's like, yeah, I would love that. He was like, but he would pull out his calendar. He was like, how does Tuesday at 12 work? And I'd be like, oh, we're doing it, right? And like actually making you commit to it. But then he also, we did this men's group. And as part of it, you have to sign a contract saying that you will show up, prepared, having read the stuff, you'll show up on time.

Your wife has to sign it. show so she's on board and i've carried that on to like you know these core relationships in my life and it dude the the idea of having actually committed to this group has changed everything it's like no we're actually here to help each other grow to hold each other accountable and it seems ridiculous like i'll tell people that you're like wow that seems super aggressive i'm like yeah sure but what else like you know how else are we going to actually make something happen if it's not consistent um anyway i i would love if you could we we just recently went to this youtube creator summit and it's like hundred of the top YouTubers were invited out there with all like

these executives of YouTube and they're talking about how um these creators are really kind of setting culture and like steering culture to a large degree it's like that's that's how kind of of things have splintered off where it's people have 20 million followers and and it's kind of like a tiny little culture in and of itself but some of them were sharing their experience of having been like really involved in young life and campus crusades and then they walked away from the faith pretty publicly and it really got me fired up to like I would love for for you to share why is faith important what what what are the fruits of faith why why believe yeah I mean I think first of all I would

say to those individuals that you're talking about people who walked away from faith they're not the first, they're not the only. And I would just say, I love that we put the emphasis on letting God show up and reveal himself to you. And if you're listening right now, and if you're in a place where you feel like your faith isn't serving you or you don't understand it or you don't know where it is, praying an honest prayer and saying,

hey, God, if you're real, show up to me, because that is faith. Faith is, if God is who he says he is, he will show up. If we put the onness on him, if we say God, I need you to show yourself to me. He will show himself to us. And I've seen it in my life and countless of people's lives. And it doesn't always look like the way we thought it was going to look. But God is God and God is big and he's beautiful and he's wonderful.

And he will make himself real to all of us. And so before we even say, why is faith important? I just want to say, I have faith in faith, that I have faith in God showing up if we put him to the test. And God says that several times in Scripture. and I think we're living in a world where right now where we need to put God to the test. We need to say, hey, God, I need you to show up and actually expect that he will or he won't. And I think that's a really beautiful prayer to pray for people who are finding themselves teetering and wondering about faith, just being so bold and pray that prayer.

Say, hey, God, if you're real show up. I love that. And I will only add to that. my favorite definition of the word faith in scripture, particularly the New Testament, is divine persuasion. It's divine persuasion, meaning the faith you have is because you have been divinely persuaded by God. And, well, that changes everything. If faith is not something that you concoct or muster up in your own brain, body, and soul, well, then it just doubles down on what Chelsea just said. It's like, well, then persuade me. And I know this sounds strange, Andrew,

but literally me and my buddies, like I'll have a, I'll try to use yesterday. Yesterday, one of my buddies called and said, I'm feeling tempted right now. Give me something. Help me. He's, he's an athlete and he's single still and the ladies love him, right? So he's like, bro, I'm feeling super tempted. Tell me something. And one of my favorite prayers to give some of my buddies is like ask God to persuade you right now. God persuade me not to ask a woman to come to my hotel room. Persuade me that you are better, that this way is better, that your plan is better, that you yourself are better. I don't need this. Persuade me again. Remind me. The Bible talks about the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, convicting you of your position, your righteousness. You are the

righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. So persuade me again. Remind me of my position again. Remind me who I am again. And I would say to people, I have friends all the time like, bro, hey man, man, I'm not a believer. Okay, man. That is not for me. And I'm like, cool. And then they're like, oh, well, you're not trying to convince me. And I'm like, no, I don't convince anyone. That's not how this works. Because if there is a God, he's God enough to reveal himself and persuade. Now, can he use podcasts like this? Can he use other human beings in their story to prompt? Yes, but ultimately he is the divine persuader. And I think when it comes to faith, the essential nature of faith is seen all around us in culture to your question, Andrew, I think we're all using enormous amounts

of faith, faith to get in a car, faith to get in an airplane, faith to sit in this chair, faith to turn on technology. You know, faith, faith, faith, it's everywhere. So it is an essential of life. This idea that, you know, I'm not a big faith person, is outrageous. Of course, we're all faith people. We're all trust people. We're all exercising faith at some level. Now, when it comes to faith in a designer and a creator and an architect of the ages, well, my premise continues to be like, well, then if he is God enough to make the oceans, the seas, the rivers, the hippos, and the rhinos, how can he not persuade me that he is

my God, my Savior, and my deliverer? And that's where I hope kind of all this pressure we put on people to be believers, hey, brother, you need to be a believer, as if I'm careful. capable of saving myself and making myself a believer. You are not and I am not. What we need is the true God of the ages who is beyond history and is the eternal one to come and persuade us, whether it's my neighbor Joe, my neighbor Brian, or me, myself on a low, difficult day. God persuade me again. And so that's the prayer I just give to anybody who's listening right now. Man, if you're like, I'm not a big faith person, just ask God to persuade you and see what happens. And I got a sense

that the true God of heaven and earth will reveal himself and persuade people. He's great at that. He's certainly done it for Chelsea and I. Dang. That was wild. I feel like I just saw seven generations like distilled into this one conversation. Between the two of you, for sure, over the last hour and ten minutes, the fewest ums or us that we've ever had. You're both insane speakers, and I'm so glad you're using that talent for such a good purpose. So that's all I have. you just said um i did thanks for just cranking out jams of uh of

there he is keep it going there he is straight from the SEC cranking out jams truly guys thank you that was that was our honor our pleasure man our privilege guys and um whether you like it or not we're going to ask you to come on our podcast like i hate that that's how this works sometimes it's like we'll be on your podcast can you be on arms you know it's like Relax. This is fun.

Thank you. Yeah. So grateful for you guys who you are and everything you're doing. Thank you for making marriage a big deal and making it something that people want to do. It's really, you guys are incredible. Thank you. Please keep going and know that you got friends over here on the Wild Wild West. Yep.

Yeah. Thank you guys. Yeah.