Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 159 | family culture with richard and linda eyre

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

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a couple things with Sean and Andrew a podcast all about couples and the things they go through today we have probably one of our favorite interviews we have done yeah with Richard and Linda Iyer's if you don't know the Iers they are legends and this parenting marriage space they've written over 60 books on these topics they've been all across the media they were even on Oprah you may you may be familiar with that name I just a little she's a little local news outlet but anyway they've been doing this for years and we have so much to learn from them them. They've put so much thought into this, as you could probably guess from all the books they've written. And so we're really excited that they came in person and sat down with us.

As parents of toddlers, we ask ourselves every day, how do we raise good humans, tiny little humans that have a soul and have a heart and have values and morals? And Linda and Richard actually have an answer to that. Yeah, it's pretty amazing what they've done and what they've built. And they've kind of laid out this whole infrastructure on how to build a family economy. So we're talking about how can you teach your kids to be responsible with resources they've been giving, build a family government. So how do you enforce some type of discipline in the family structure? And then also building family traditions, which is, you know, the things that I think as we grow up, we reflect on. We're nostalgic about their kind of

anchors in time and milestones that kind of give a family its unique identity. And zooming out from that, doing all of those things while instilling values in the process. And I think forming this family infrastructure is important because it's really cool to think that Sean has unique talents, gifts, and abilities and confidence in certain areas of life, right? Like, you were fortunate enough to stumble into gymnastics and feel really confident in that. And now you've transitioned to this other thing and feel really confident as an individual. But I think that's rooted in having that individual confidence is rooted in having a strong family culture that's really clear, really explicit.

Like, we know what we are about as East, right? That's what I want us to know about as a married couple, but I also want our kids to know what it means to be in East. Just so they have a solid jumping off platform that they'll tweak and morph into their own thing. But I think it's a good starting place for them as they form their own identities, you know. Anyway, we get into the weeds here. You might hear us reference a course along the way. And this is a program that Richard and Linda sat down with us to help us build our family government economy and traditions through. we wanted to share what we learned with you.

And if you're interested in learning more about that, how you can build your family intentionally, then you can click the link below or go to familymaid.com forward slash waitlist to kind of get access to that. We're testing this out. We're really excited about this. And I think this is one of the most meaningful things we've done. Because I do think when you're as strategic with your family as you are in business or with your health and wellness, I think we can really make ripples across this.

And all I can say is I was dumbfounded over and over and over again by what they had to say because I would have this question like, how do you teach respect? How do you teach courage? And they would be like, well, Sean, what age do you want to talk about? And I was like, how about a three-year-old? And they would say, here are three of the easiest little exercises you can do at home that will literally teach them the definition of respect. It was they made everything seem so attainable. It made me feel like as a parent, I can succeed with raising a tiny human. They've really done a good job in taking an ambiguous concept like respect or courage and figuring out how you can have the rubber meet the road and having your child practice those things. So it's really great. It actually reminds me my buddy is interviewing for a head coaching position. And we've been putting together this playbook for his strategy when it comes to recruiting new players, strategy for like organizing practices and all this structure.

that he's going to bring to his team. And I feel like there's a lot of parallels to what we're doing with this course with the Iirs and building out a playbook for your family. So anyway, if you're interested again, we'll link it down below. But Richard and Linda, thank you for taking the time to spend a couple days with us here in Nashville. You've positively impacted us and our family, and I think you'll impact hundreds and thousands more.

So if you're interested, check that link out. But without further ado, Richard and Linda Iyer. Wow. Richard Linda, can I just start with a quick background here on these two? Yes, please. Because I am so excited and honored to be sitting with you three, really. You two, this is the real treat. You two have written over 60 books.

I know you have a couple in the making. New York Times bestseller. You've been on all the talk shows like Oprah today, you name it. You have nine kids yourself. We were just talking and looking at your Christmas card. You have how many people are in that Christmas? Thanksgiving card. Oh, yeah, sorry.

57 people in the card. We're like, where did all these people come from? What is your, like, Christmas mantle look like? Do you do stockings for all these people? It's wild. Well, we've started going to the families at Christmas. We gather at Thanksgiving usually, and in the summer we're always together. But it is.

No, but good point, Sean. That's one thing about sending a Thanksgiving card. Then everyone sends you a Christmas card because they get it a month sooner, right? Oh, that's a computer. You want more Christmas cards. That's how you do. I love Christmas cards. We actually started this thing where we get like a Charlie Brown tree.

You know, just like a crazy one. And we hang all the cards on the tree. That's cool. That's so fun. We were thinking about how it's so often online you hear people who are in the business world talk about like, hey, here are the three things I would have done if I was just starting on my career. But very rarely do you get wisdom from people who have been successful? in parenting and family life

and when Sean and I were sitting down trying to think of authorities in the space like it's kind of hard to delineate you know it's kind of an experience-based thing and you guys definitely have the track record and resume. We wondered how you came up with us we wondered what your selection process was. We just picked you out of a hat,

randomly out of a hat. We thought, yeah, they'll do. They'll do it. But your resume is like amazing both from the amount of content you've put out on this topic and I just can't imagine all the thought that has gone behind each of those books, but also your experience in raising nine kids, which has led to then this generation of wonder.

And so I'm excited and honored to like just hopefully unpack as much of that as we can. Well, you're so kind, Andrew, but I feel like I have to throw this in that there is no one-size-fits-all in families. And what we're all was really careful of, and Linda's especially good at this is not saying this is how you do it and you follow A, B, and C. Because every single family is different, every kid is different, every situation is different. What we've found people get the most help from is just ideas. And we encourage them, be discerning.

Pick the thing that'll work for you. And I'll tell you the other thing they like, they like to hear about our failures. They like to hear about our problems. They don't, they don't, the last thing anyone wants is some perfect, family oh boy and and that's what you get all the time now on social media right everyone's comparing themselves with other people and it's just no good i mean you're the ex you're no one else is an expert on your kids but you yeah well the fun part for us being with you is that we do have nine kids five sons four daughters all ours genetically no twins just to get all the

questions out of the way but um our youngest couple or about your age and you know what i just found out our youngest grandson is one day older than jet our son isn't that amazing so we we're still going we're still going it's wild but that is it's so fun to be in touch with this generation and we know a little bit about it because we have kids rage but um it is really a thrill to be able to really reach your audience Well, and the thing about what we do, and you guys know this, you learn, when you're out teaching and speaking to parents or on book tours and talking about, you end up learning more than you teach because you're with parents all the time and they're telling you things and they're bringing up their issues and they're also saying, here's what I did. And you're realizing, wow, there are so many good ideas in this world. And we begin to see ourselves largely as a filter, largely as just someone that learns from others, puts it together.

tries to conceptualize it puts it in a book and tries to get it out to people that's why we're grateful for you guys you help us reach a whole audience we wouldn't get to otherwise i think to answer your question too going back of why you guys um we've been in contact for a while now with your family is how many zoom calls have we oh my god i love you so fun one with you in the back seat oh oh my gosh that was our first place i was kind of in a dark place there because it was not an easy car ride and Andrew's like we got to take a zoom call I don't know how this is going to work but I have so been there so many times but with you guys I think because we've been in contact and we have so much respect for you guys and everything that you've put out into the

world as far as content we are also looking at one of our favorite interviews we have ever done on couple things was another it was remind me the name it was a guy who had written a book Carl Pilamer. Yes, where he had interviewed thousands of couples and gotten the wisdom of each one. And I think we got from that interview more takeaways within our relationship than any interview we've done. And with you guys, it's very similar. You've had so much experience. You've been around so many parents.

You've related to people all over the world. And you've taken out of it the greatest lessons in parenting. And as new parents, I just want to sit here and go through my laundry list. list of like how do I not raise my kid to be you know an axe murderer how do I make them a good person just all of these things which is a good place to start I think just to draw our line in the sand so people can say oh that's what I want or that's not what I want at all how do you collectively define a successful family a successful what a question yeah again you got to be careful not to start getting cookie cutter sort of one size fits all there's a lot of

different kinds of good families. But I will tell you something interesting, and you may think this is going the opposite direction of what you were just talking about, Sean, where you want to collect from everyone. But everyone wants to know, yeah, I know. I know it's complicated. I know there's like, but if you could just do one thing,

what would it be? I mean, what is the magic key? What is the place to start? And we were off camera a minute ago and offline talking about the difference between an offense and a defense. And what's so interesting to me and to Linda about parenting is that it is so often a defensive proposition. It's so often reactive rather than proactive. It's like, well, if I have this problem, how do I solve it?

Or if Johnny does this, how do I, you know, react? And reaction, as you both know, as athletes, is no fun. I would rather play offense any day. And so our answer when people say, what is the key, or they'll say, well, how do I discipline my kids or how do I do that? And we're like, that's reactive. How about we start with an infrastructure? How about we start with saying, what are the three things that every successful family has? I don't care whether you're in India or whether you're in Vietnam or whether you're in Tennessee. They all have three things. They all have some kind of a behavioral code or some set of rules or

some set of laws or something their kids are expected to do. They all have a set of traditions. And that might be the most important one. That's the glue that holds family together. And they're different for different families, but they've all got them and they're strong. And then the third one is some kind of an economy or some way to share responsibility so kids know what's expected of them. And we wrote a book called Three Steps to a Strong Family. It's funny because Stephen Covey's kind of been our mentor, as we were growing up and everything. And, of course, seven habits of highly seven.

And we went to Stephen, and we said, Stephen, seven's too many. You know, look at our book, three. We got it down to three. Three steps to a strong family. But I really do think it's about having a strategy. It's about having a plan, having a goal that you sit and. Rather than just letting it work out together. I think probably one of our most important things is that we did have a little couple

meeting every Sunday. and we worked at our strategy. I mean, the first of the year, we worked at a lot of things, but then weekly, like, how are we doing? What should we do now? I mean, this isn't working like we thought, but the basic things were there. We just kept saying, let's just keep going.

Let's keep going on these basic things that are. That's a great point. It's dynamic. You don't have a plan, and then from then on, all you've got to do is implement it. You tweak it every week because you have things, happen and what do we do about this and so on and i think that's the the beauty of parenting is you never know i mean you think of each of your kids i'm sure you guys think of drew and jett they're like

little puzzles you're you're finding the pieces but you don't quite know them yet and it's like figuring out who they are who are these little people you know and also also you have to realize that it's never going to go perfect and that you're never going to be perfect when i had all nine of those kids home, I wrote a book called I didn't plan to be a witch because I didn't, you don't plan it, but my gosh, it just happens they just drive you to the edge and just sometimes you fall over. Oh, just ask my kids. Oh, you should see her with her hat on her, witch hat. And by the way, that's Linda's bestselling book and it offers not one iota of advice or prescribes. Just here's all the things that happen to me. And people are like, oh yes, I want to read this.

it makes me feel like I've done so bad. Well, I think that's the hardest part of parenting is like you read all of these how-toes. And it's, oh, your kids are going to be the perfect children. If you just show them what perfection looks like and you act a certain way. And so as parents, all I want to hear is it's not, they're not too far gone for us to like fix it. And I'm not too bad to me like to still get something out of them. And it's relatable because I've had to have a conversation with my three-year-old. already where I'm like, I'm sorry.

That was mommy's fault. That was not your fault. You know, I'm sorry is the very best thing you can say to your kids because they start saying I'm sorry back to you. And I don't know if she's old enough to do that yet or not. She has. I've left notes on their pillows. And then once in a while I find a note on my pillow like, sorry, mom.

I just, you know, but it, you know, we aren't perfect. It's just, and raising kids is the hardest job in the world, but also the most joyful job in the world. And then I did forget far enough long that I'm. wrote a joyful mother of children that was the progression from which to joy I will say too sorry real quick that I mean again we only have a three-year-old and a one-year-old at the moment but our three-year-old has started to like notice things too just in conversations about being sorry or happy

and she said to me the other day she goes mommy are you angry I was like how interesting for a three-year-old yeah how interesting we're a three-year-old and I was like I tried telling her no but then I was like she can obviously obviously see that I'm not very happy. Yeah. And it's okay to be angry. It's quite a mirror. You know, Linda says, it's funny what you said.

I think Linda's favorite answer or most, the one people love the most when they'll ask Linda, why does my child do this? What can I? And Linda'll say, don't worry about it. It's a phase. It's a phase. You'll come out on there. They're like, really?

Oh, good. Fine. I don't have to do anything. And what a hopeful perspective, though, like the fact that one, you came to terms with like, hey, I'm kind of a witch, right? I've been there. It parlayed into the joy. And that's a kind of a philosophy that we've come across as we've interviewed these

couples about their marriages, their parenting experience is like, you kind of have to walk through the valley to get to the peak. And like you just keep on treading. You keep on putting your best foot forward. And ultimately it will like blossom into this wonderful thing. And I feel like it's like getting it through, getting through that valley is something that people lose hope in and they can't see the other side. They're clouded by the current situations.

But man, it's amazing. That's why I'm so thankful for the, on top of the books that you have. You also have like the course that we're working to put together for equipping families with those three things that you mentioned and a fourth being values so that they can have like a toolkit to navigate the problems with and hope to see the other side.

Well, and just a couple things before they slip. From what you're saying, it's so interesting, Andrew, that parents, they know what they want, but they don't have words for it a lot of times. And when we wrote the book, Teaching Your Children Values, and we get a call one night, and it's Oprah's Senior Producer, and I think it's a friend playing a trick on me. I'm like, sure, who are you really? It turns out of it's really her, and we get on there, and it's an hour long with Oprah, and all she's doing is promoting the book, holding it up.

You need to teach one value a month and so on. And she said the most interesting thing in her intro. She said, you know, what's great about this book is it doesn't have chapters. It has months. And the idea that all you have to work on is one thing each month. And so many parents are so confused and they're trying to do so many things and they're so overwhelmed with all the how-to stuff. No, no, just focus on respect this month. And next month, just focus on honesty.

and she was like our best sales woman because she said I could do that you could do that this will work for you you know and we just sort of smiled and went and looked at the bestseller book the next week and it was number one I think too the refreshing part of that

as a new parent ourselves is I get so overwhelmed with they need to walk at a certain age they need to read at a certain age they need to not hit in none of that actually matters the things that matter are what you're teaching in your book and those are the hardest things to actually comprehend as a parent though because it's like how do I teach them how to be honest and how do I teach them how to like how do you teach values to a kid

which is what you guys navigate through yeah well and that's the funny thing Sean is when we were working on that particular book the publisher um Simon Schuster was like wait we're a little worried about this because whose values are these going to be? I mean, don't people have different values? So we did a lot of research and a lot of surveying and so on. It turns out parents have exactly the same values in terms of what they want. And they're basic. They're universal. They don't have to be convinced that those are good values. Their whole question is, but how do I teach it? How do I? So all that book is is methods, one after the other after other, and each one has a preface. These will not all work for you. Look down the list,

the ones that you think will work for your kids. Well, actually, it's in three different sections, how to teach to preschools, how to teach this. Oh, amazing. School-age kids and how to do with teenagers. And that's been really helpful because it is totally different. We've got ideas for like three-year-olds, but it's different.

It's not going to work with a 17-year-old. And not to give it all the secrets away, but what are the values that you teach? Well, it starts with honesty is the first one, and then it goes to courage and then respect and then self-reliance and self-discipline. I'm not going to make it through all of them. But you get the idea.

Yeah, yeah. So it's just ones that every parent wants to teach. And with a big over umbrella of love, I mean, there, we try to teach your kids, there is nothing you can do to make me quit loving you. I mean, even if I am so mad at you, I love you passionately. And they need to know that no matter what. And so our family motto is become love more. Just love more, not more love, but.

Love more, love more, love more. And I think kids just blossom in love, no matter what. Even when you're angry, they know that you love it. We've watched, like, literally millions of parents all over the world try to implement this book now. And what's so fascinating is the best methods are not always the ones in the book because it's like, okay, it's January, we're working on honesty this month. And a lot of families have a banner in their family room or their kitchen,

and the East family value of the month is honesty. And then everything becomes a method. You know, something happens at school or you see something on TV or a neighbor comes by and you're like, wait, was that honest? And life becomes your teaching method. And what do you think you do after the years over? And you've gone through all 12 values.

You start over because now Drew is four instead of three and she learns it on a whole new level. And imagine the legacy when Drew is 18 and heads out to Vanderbilt or wherever. That's right, go doors. Then she's been through these values each year on a different level. And that's the legacy you sent her away with is she has those values. And it kind of plays into the idea of confirmation bias where it's like, hey, look, we all know universally that it's nice to be honest. Like it's important to be honest.

But focusing on that and making that a core practice in the family, identify. It's like when you buy a yellow car, you see a bunch of more yellow cards. It's like, okay, we're going to talk about honesty, and now you're able to see what honesty looks like and what it doesn't look like. That's so good. That's so good because everything, every little TV show, everything that happens, you go to a movie, there's something to talk about afterwards. 100%.

Was that honest? And how did that work out? Yeah. And it just really is fun to have. it becomes part of their vocabulary right i mean kids can talk about video games and about all kinds of things can they do they have are they equipped in their minds to think about and talk about values yeah we can make it so in putting together i have so many questions you know when to defer you um in putting together all of your concepts all of your books that are specific to parenting

what's the biggest lesson that you've learned about your relationship as parents informing relationship with each other with each other oh boy what a great question because see we we've written like a couple of dozen books on parenting we've written one on marriage and it's a fairly new one I mean we just barely did it we ought to spend a whole we ought to do a whole show on that book but why people say well wait why did you wait so long it's like because we didn't feel like we were really too good at us and even then we ended up writing on the myths of marriage like the things that aren't true you know it was easy to write about the not true ones than the true ones but but to your point Sean here and I'm just going to say this and it'll sound a little like a

blanket statement maybe people will disagree in our experience every single time that a marriage relationship improves, the parenting improves. It is not true backwards from that. We see a lot of couples who are really good parents. They're working hard at it, but their marriage is falling apart. And the good parenting doesn't necessarily translate into a good marriage. The marriage always translates into better parenting. And you can see why.

You're a team now. You're talking about things. You're brainstorming. You notice something about Drew that Andrews never thought of. and he says, you're right, and it just parleyes. There's synergy in it, right? Well, I do have to say that we really have to have a meeting on Sunday because there's so much stuff going on at our house that, you know,

we just don't have time to talk about. And, oh, man, that was stupid. It keeps a little list. She brings it out on Sunday. No, I do not. But I do, we saw your couple things on your argument day. And I've told Andrew this, but on. I'm my favorite one.

We argue exactly the same way. It is just hilarious. Sometimes the only way we get over an argument is do a podcast, and then we feel so much better afterwards. No, but I mean, we really disagree on the way we do everything. We do everything so differently. I won't go into detail, but it really is. But I've come to be so grateful for that.

What could be worse than having a spouse who was sort of a clone of you? Wouldn't that be awful? Yeah. It'd be so boring. It used to be, though, that we would explode. Yeah. I would explode all at once. But now I just kind of say that until Sunday,

and then, you know, I kind of use the sandwich approach and I know, like, honey, you're so good at, you know, taking the garbage out and taking care of the kids and night, stories and everything. But I have to tell you something. You really hurt my feelings this week. And you said, da-da-da-da-da. And sometimes, like, I can't wait. But I do just try to keep it to one conversation, if possible.

But we really do. disagree on everything. So really talking it through. I mean, and that's part of the dynamic that we like because I do things differently. He does different things. Oh, we've got the worst. I have, sorry, the guy that performed our marriage gave us the worst

advice. At the time, at the time we thought it was so good. And you've heard. It was a cliche. It's like, Richard and Linda, never let the sun set on a disagreement. Do not go to bed, Matt, you know? Like, we got no sleep the first. three months of our marriage.

We're like, the sun's coming up and we're like, we can't go to sleep. And we just sort of modified to say, never let the weekend without resolving. So we push them back to Sunday and we'll have our Sunday session. We'll work it all out. Honestly, we talked to some marriage counselors and they say being hungry, angry, lonely, or tired always leads to angry. And that's where all of our arguments come from. Sometimes I'm like shot.

I know we're in the middle of the argument. right now but let's just go to bed please can we just I'm so tired it's like the best though is like I feel like you'll enjoy this is when we're in the heat of an argument and it's usually caused because we're hungry or something and Andrew will be like can I make you a sandwich and it just lights a fire under me I'm like I am not

hungry that's not the reason I'm mad and then you look back later and say I was totally hungry yeah yeah it's so true it's so fun I think about the fun thing about what we do is we hear feedback on a daily basis from couples who like like there's phases Sean and I'll go like two weeks and it's just kind of can't see eye to eye but we'll share stories like that that podcast of us being in an argument which is I mean that's that story has happened I don't know a hundred times in our seven years of marriage but we'll hear and someone's like hey I've never been able to vocalize this and hearing your story like

we were listening to your podcast together and we just burst out laughing and it's like it's so fun and that's what's so encouraging with you sharing all that you have it's like sometimes it feels like i am the only husband in the world that deals with the wife who wants a clean and it's like i'm lonely and wants a clean kitchen was that and it's like and you feel you're sort over that yeah you feel you feel isolated and lonely and that never leads to good things and so like this idea of kind of sharing these conversations and with a message of like, hey, that's normal. It's a tale as old as time, like, you know, a wife given the husband a hard time. Right.

And not vice versa. Well, you guys know, and I don't want this to sound preachy at all, believe me. But what gets you through those hard times is your commitment, right? You know, no matter how bad it gets today or tomorrow or next week, we're committed. And that's why I really, you know, the, One of the biggest flaws in our society right now. What does that mean to you? Sorry.

What does commitment mean to you? Let me, I'll tell you through this story. We run into a lot of people who will say, you know, we're trying to, we're testing this out. And if we find that we really are compatible for a few years, we'll probably make a commitment. And I'm like, you know, again, this is not a religious comment or a philosophical comment. The fact is you won't get through those next few years if you don't have a commitment. because you'll say, oh, it's not working, you know. It's confirmation bias is what we were just talking about.

Like, hey, I'm committed, so I'm going to stay here as opposed to like, oh, I'm not committed. And I see, I see. We'll work it out. It may take a while, but there's never any question. We'll work it out. That's been something that I've noticed with some of my close, close friends with engagement. And I've had some friends who are like, we're going to just be engaged for a few years before we actually do this. And I've told them, I was like, nothing good happens.

because every day that goes by, you're like, is this actually the right person for me? You're asking the question over and over and over. And you constantly have that exit in your mind. I agree. Whereas don't be engaged longer than a few months and just do it because if you wanted to propose to that person, that person is, you can make it work.

Yeah. If you want to maximize your chance of it lasting, make the commitment. Yeah. And sometimes I think I've found that the things that bother me the most about Richard are also the things that I love the most. Oh, man. You know, it really is true.

I mean, he is just gung-ho, go, go, go all the time. And I'm like, oh, let's just take a breath here. But that is what I love about him. So I think sometimes you have to say, okay, and it's not me, but that's what I love about him. We were testing out different marriage counselors last year, this year, this year. And we did a session with one, and she kind of just bounced back and forth for a while. and she ended up coming to that conclusion. She's like, it's funny.

Like, I asked you guys to tell me why you got married and why you fell in love with each other. Interesting. And then we go on to, like, what's bothering you? She said, it's funny that the things you married each other for are the things that are, like, what you're annoyed by because you're trying to change them into yourself now. And it was funny for us to take a step back and be like, that's...

So, Andrew's such a free spirit. And then seven years later, he never schedules anything. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Just freaking you guys. So I had this big epiphany. I can't remember just how old I was, but we weren't too far into our marriage. And I said it to Linda.

I didn't think about how to say it. And it came out so funny. I said, Linda, I've been, I've had this sort of feeling that's just, I've realized something. And she said, what? I would, you're going to laugh, but I would not change one single little thing about you. And she's like, oh, yeah, right. I said, no, I said, no, here's my point. You're a complex, wonderful, beautiful individual.

And if I tweaked some little thing, if I had the power to say, I'm going to change Linda in this way, that would set off a chain reaction that would change the very things I love most about you. I would not mess with it. I wouldn't dare. I love you. And that's all of you. And it's the John Legend song, right?

I know. And I love that. He does that. So when we're in argument now, it was like, would you just? change me. That shuts it down pretty fast. I do have a question, though, as you reflect back over how you've parented, how you've done marriage now with grandparenting.

Is there anything that you would change, like, from a decision standpoint, or, man, I wish we did this earlier, or I wish we didn't do that at all? Great. I wish we had realized earlier that it was an offense and not a defense. We didn't have a strategy. We went through the first several years. What do we do now? What do we do now?

We got the problem. How do we solve it? And it was all about reacting. Well, Josh is this way. How do we get him over this? Or is this kid on the spectrum? Let's go to a doctor. I mean, we're just always trying to react to what the issues were.

And I think our breakthrough was when, you know, and this is the advantage of, I hate to admit this, but we write our best books when we're in the thick of the problem we're addressing. It's not looking back on. how we solved it 10 years ago it's struggling through it and trying to write about it and i think our breakthrough is when we thought hey we need a strategy we need some goals let's set them we won't always make them every day but at least we'll have a track to run on gosh so when our even our little preschoolers when they were your age like oh we need some rules here we decided to call it laws instead

of rules but it really was fun because we engaged them in the process at a little family meeting we have a family meeting every week and okay today we're going to come up with what do you think the family rules should be and it was so funny because our oldest kids were like about four i think i think three yeah johnny was two so like about a year ahead that same age so you know our oldest daughter's like i know never hit other little girls because it was only a sister that wasn't involved. Oh, that's good. Let's write that down. And then the other one, oh, the two-year-old said, never plug-in plugs because we'd kind of go and work to an outlet the night before, you know. I was writing on a chalkboard and we got up to what? We got up to about 25 laws and they were all

silly little things. And then we thought, wait a minute, we need to just really condense this and take what they said, but make this into just five little rules that they all know what they are and then they know what the consequences are so laying that's actually i think that foundation has helped all the way through and we tweaked it a little bit as we went through but they knew what what the real was and they knew what the consequences were for breaking the rule and that just making that clear plan of this is how we're going to do it i think really made a big difference yeah because i i love i we're noticing it now with our three-year-old they're such little sponges and it's kind of terrifying But even now with our one-year-old son,

things that we've taught Drew over the past three years, he'll do something and she'll be like, Mommy, he can't hit or he can't grab or he can't whatever. And it's like, oh, yeah, I forgot. That's the rule we taught you. Yeah, you can't do that. So it keeps you accountable and it keeps them accountable, which is fine.

You know, you sort of, it's a funny word to use, but we're all trying to sort of institutionalize our families in the sense that we wanted to be lasting and sort of permanent and to give identity to our kids so that their main culture is not the peer culture or the social media culture or the celebrity culture. They have a culture at home and it's got these rules and it's got traditions and by the way the tradition one,

oh man, we cannot over-emphasize that. Kids get away from home and then you start realizing what they miss is those little things you always did, those little rituals and some of them you're like why would that matter but kids are just drawn to those can i tell you a real quick story like my my tradition we had a birthday tradition for each of us this will make me cry mine is in october and and the kids are let's go jump in leaves we like you know we'll rake them up we'll bury each other in them we'll we'll do all this fun stuff and we thought well that's a great fun tradition for little teeny kids they'll out and grow that you kids

will not let you out grow. Now they're in high school. We've got to go to the park. There's bigger. We've got to jump out of trees into the leaves. We've got to invite our friends. Will you bring Cocoa mom? And you know, it just grows and grow.

And here's the point. One, one, it's a funny year. We are two oldest left the same year. The son went away to college for his freshman year. And the daughter was a little older. Was in Bulgaria, working in an orphanage, doing humanitarian work. And I'm, my birthday's here. and I'm missing them and think it's my first day without them.

I go to the mailbox. And there's two cards. I'm like, they remembered my birthday. I can't wait to see these cards. And I go in and I open the daughters first. And it's not a card. It's a leaf. And the leaf falls out and it's got a little post-it note on it.

And I remember exactly what I can see it in my mind. It said, Dear Dad, this is a Bulgarian leaf. The orphans help me honor your tradition. And then the last line, Dad, just because I'm far away, Don't forget, I'm still part of our family. And at that moment, I realized these little things we do, it could be how you put the ornaments on the Christmas tree. It could be what you do on Easter.

It could be what you do on Sundays. That becomes their identity. And by the way, the end of the story is funny because I open the suns. And it's a leaf, too. There's no note or anything. He's just a boy. He's a guy. I'll send down a leaf.

He'll know what it means. you know anyway that's so powerful those little things that's that's why I wanted to have this conversation I wanted to have you in town it's that it's that type of story I'm literally as you're telling that story I'm just thinking of all the things my parents did to me the little the little habits we had the routines we had the rhythms the craziest one that we do yeah I want to hear oh yeah I don't condone this to anybody listening don't do this don't follow this example i will but like let me say this first it's you know we we believe in like the body of christ right where everyone has unique strengths and talents love it yeah and weaknesses and it's like

i when you can identify that and and really celebrate it and uplifted that's what makes it fun and like you're really on to something at that point and i don't want that point to be overlooked because i mean think about how amazing it would be if we had families who all instead of just kind of stumbling through life it's so easy to do when you're parenting you're going you're in survival mode it's like let's be intentional and it doesn't take much time it's like right let's have a 10 minute meeting every sunday and let's just like do that from the start so that we can build a family identity and like bring out each other's strengths and celebrate those strengths and like laugh at each other's weaknesses is what at least my family

does sure i just think that's the most amazing thing now to our wild family tradition Every Thanksgiving, which is coming up. We're about to do this next week. My dad found it so awesome that on Thanksgiving, there's nobody out on the road because everyone's already gotten to their destination. So he started a tradition where we would try to find the largest road we could, including highways.

Or interstates. And laid down on the road together. In the middle of it to show how peaceful. We start a clock. And it's always like, it's always like all right we made it two minutes on i-65 and it's like wow there's nobody on the road now we're like nine grandkids in and they're all like itty-bitties

we have family in tijuana and san diego and now nashville and every thanksgiving if we're not together we get pictures from all over the country of people laying in the middle of the road and it's just like and we'll do it we'll take our babies out there and we go sprinting we don't do it on the highway we'll do it on like to drive away or whatever but like these are the stories that like give us oh my gosh what is wonderful about the glue that holds you together forever i mean it really the crazier the better though it makes you it makes you feel like you're included in something that is so special yes it's a culture it's a culture

we we ended up we lived in england for a few years and we found this old beautiful like a ledger book but it's leather you know it's big and we decided to call it our traditional tradition books. So in it, every month, every spread is a different month. What are the traditions this month? And the little kids, like about Drew's age and a little older, would illustrate that tradition. So they're like this picture of us jumping in the leaves or this picture of this other thing. And then you get the anticipation. It's like, oh, it's almost December. What are, our traditions? And they all, I like how you said it, Andrew. It's like you create this thing where They are part of it, and they know they always will be, and no matter where life takes them, home will always be home.

That's all we can all, that's all we could ever want. I absolutely love that crazy story. We thought we were crazy. I mean, we have another one where we floated the cake on this little girl's birthday. I mean, we'll buy on a stream or wherever, or the swimming pool or wherever. And still, I mean, when they've been gone for a long time, they send a picture of, I floated a cupcake in the bathtub. you today i mean you know it just goes on and on and on it's they won't let you stop we're in england when you they want to float the cake in a moat that goes around this castle so we do we were there

in england one time anyway just thank you for that because that's the craziest i've ever yeah that i also love that you said you've a ledger because i was literally thinking as you said this we do new year's goals and resolutions every year that i want to write down now every tradition we want to like implement or keep well and that's keep adding to it i'm trying to think about like traditions versus just in activity and like there is some you feel compelled to like uphold the tradition like once you as a kid at least this tradition was like all right we got to go lay on the street and Thanksgiving but then it becomes like we like it when I first married into the family I was like what are we doing but then it becomes a thing of like oh what I have to do it

because we've been doing it right and it's I think it's so important in a society where it's like hey let's just lay on the couch and watch Netflix or let's just like No, let's not do anything. And when an activity becomes a tradition, we all want activities to do. We're just kind of like waiting for a leader or a reason to do the activity. I feel like, at least that's how I feel. And so having, I'm so thankful that we had traditions that kind of like got us off the couch, got us turning off Netflix. And it's like, okay, we got to go rake the pile of leaves today or do whatever.

So it's the tactile part of it, like the big ledger or something on the wall. I mean, we tend to put everything on our computer. And the problem is no one sees them. You know, they're in there. They're somewhere. But, you know, we would set goals with our school year goals. I mean, it'll be this way for you guys. The New Year's not January 1st.

It's September. It's when school starts. Now we're planning the year. And we found that if our kids just wrote a little thing, what's your goals? And they'd put down a few things. They'd lose it. But we'd get these foam core boards for them. And they'd make it on there.

And then they'd do something. They'd decorate it. It'd go on the wall between their pitchers or the basketball stuff. and the rock stars and that's their goals they see it every day you know and that became such a tradition and it's back to your point Andrew anything that makes the family feel like something more than this casual group of people yeah it's so sad so many families are just not in contact with each other I mean brothers and sisters haven't talked to each other for years I mean adults and oh it's just so sad and so they need to go laying the road together they just need to learn to go lay out yeah it's like a team

I'm like, who thought of that? Who thought of that? My dad, my dad is, I love your dad. I think him and Richard would get along quite a lot. I do too. I want to meet him. But there is group bonding. I'm sure we could pull studies about the psychology of this, but like when I

played football, like, we would do 4 a.m. workouts, which was miserable. But you bond through those things. And like, that's what when I talk to my brother, it's just like, God, I can't believe we're going to lay in the street again today. But it's like, you know, you might be whining about it, but it's kind of joking. and it's like but it is the it is the glue it's the thing that you're like totally you're like warriors together in it but anyway well and that what that leads into is the idea of sharing responsibility too we we speak a lot to business groups and

entrepreneurs and so on and they're people who have a fair amount of financial acumen but it's astounding how they don't apply it in their own families like they think hey, I'll just give Johnny 20 bucks every week and that'll be his allowance and that'll teach him how to use money. That teaches him the welfare system. Somebody just handed you money, you know.

How about some simple, I mean, it sounds really old school, right? Chores, you know, things you're supposed to do. But it gets back to what you were saying, Andrew. People who participate who have ownership in the family who do some of the work

are they feel like part of the family they're not these little princesses who waltz in and people wait on them all the time they have some roles to play and somehow what you give them for their spending money relates to what they did you're not paying them to do things they should do anyway because they're part of a family they should just do it but there's some you know if if the maid doesn't clean this room maybe one of the kids could or something so they actually feel I earned this money and I helped around the home and now when I buy a shirt with this I'll actually hang it up instead of throwing it on the floor because I bought it with the money that I earned. I mean these are such basic principles

but a lot of times we just we say oh well the family is different no the family is like the real world and when our kids are going to leave at some point I mean that's another way to think about it is thinking far out when Drew is 18 or whatever and goes off to school. And a lot of our speaking is overseas and kids are going away at 12. They're going to boarding school or something. They have a shorter time frame. But what do I want her to do? Well, I want her to be part of this family.

I want her to know how to use money. I want her to feel like she's always connected. And I want her to have these values because actually when I'm not there with her as her parent, what will protect her, her values. That's what'll protect her. It's about protection. TD Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage

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Adventureous side journeys together with third row seating. The new Outlander. Out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors, drive your ambition. We were in a wedding this weekend, and when the father of the bride got up to speak, the thing that hit me the most was he said, I told you every day of your life that I would love you and protect you.

But I realize at some point I cannot protect you anymore, and I've just hoped that I've done enough. And he went on to say, like, I feel like I have done enough looking at the man you've chosen, as he exemplifies, like, everything that I've taught you and asked for. And it was really special, but it gave that whole concept of,

I hope I can teach you enough in those 18 years to set you up so that you are protected by us in a sense. And I bet if you broke those down and thought through that with him, what he'd say he taught that he felt would protect them would be those basic values like self-reliance and self-discipline. I'm not around, but you're taking. those things with you yeah i love the idea of starting with the end in mind we actually uh heard about the exercise of writing your own obituary and sean and i actually for the first time had just thought

about that but it's we set goals in every area of life whether it be fitness or business or like travel and where you want to go and it's like you want to do it for family but sometimes it's a little hard it's a little difficult too because you're like well i want a strong family i want to be close with my sibling but it's like what's a mechanism i'm actually getting there is kind of the trick you know but well i'm going to tell you something i didn't have any thought of saying today when we walked in here but you you've just put that so well that question when we think of goals i'm a harvard business school guy right i mean i think casual flex casualtyatively how to slip that right in my goals are always quantitative right and they're and they're measurable like i want to get

here then then in six months i got to be here and so on doesn't work with relationships, right? I can't say, I want a hundred percent perfect relationship with Linda in five years. So after one year, it better be 20. I mean, you can't do it. So what we try to teach people, and this is beautiful with children, it's actually easier to do with children than with adults, is write a little description in words of how you want your relationship to be with Drew in two years.

Now you're thinking, wow, Drew's five. what does she look like now what does she think now what and it's all it's your imagination it's a creative process well i think she'll probably be sort of like this and like this now how are we going to relate how much trust is going to be there maybe you describe in words and don't worry about the writing because no one's going to see this but you it's just for yours it's your document we're talking and Drew says this and i say this and she smiles and i can tell she trust me and you're just trying to create a picture in your mind of a relationship in two years and that becomes like a magnet you find yourself doing it now see most most goals are all about numbers and measurements and

so on this is the same thing it's all a goal is is a clear picture of where you want to be at a certain time to begin with the end in mind only have a relationship it's in words instead of numbers and is descriptive and it's not exact because you don't know it's scary to try to think of drew at five you just wow what'll but it makes you start thinking in the future and that starts guiding what you do on every day it's so true it's so true we had a mentor who I've written goals every year of my life but he's like hey write me a journal entry five years from now well of what your day looks like so it's like all right i woke up at 5 a.m and i and i did a 45 minute workout and then i had you know this exact thing for breakfast right i had like a smoothie with fruit and whatever

oh my goodness and then i kissed my wife and i brought her a cup of coffee to wake her and it's like you actually picture this in your mind and i'm not like wow this so like you know the more you think about it put out you know people say put it out into the universe it's like i'm not into that but there is something to be said about oh there's something like it just forces you to think in a new way and you know a lot of people will say we'll outline this for them we'd do this in speaking sometime and we give them the whole template and format and the main objection because i don't want to do that because i'll make it sound so perfect and then i'll get there and it won't be and i'll feel like a failure i'm like that's how any goal is any anytime you set a goal

you're kind of putting yourself out there and you're risking that you won't get there but the question to ask is will i be closer to there than i would have been if i'd never set it preach we talked about i don't know how the context of it came up but we said we feel like this year is a pivotal year for us just like with our business and having two kids and we're talking about trying for another kid and like all of these things so i felt like goals were really important because we had done really well and i said i told andrews like i feel like our life has completely changed since we started doing goals because before goals i felt aimless in life i didn't know when i woke up in the morning what to work for

for. I didn't know why to go to work, why I was doing what I was doing. And as soon as we started writing it down, whether we achieved it or not. We were starting very like intentionally going down a road that we wanted to go down. Yeah. Instead of finding ourselves five years down the road being like, how did we end up here and why are we here? Exactly. And so well said. And the amazing thing is we've done this with groups of big groups and audience, we've said just write down. And usually around this time of year because everyone's thinking about it and start of the year. Write down just one goal you have for the next year and then we'll collect them and look at them. Guess what percentage of them have anything to do with family? Like zero? I mean, a few scattered, but they're all about

finances or money or career or projections because that's how people think of goals. And yet when you ask those same people, right, what's your highest priority? Your work or your family. Oh, my family. Well, why don't you have any goals there? Because I don't know how to set goals. for families you know well that's what we're all about is getting proactive and strategic with our families and someone challenged me they said what if you were as strategic in your marriage and parenting as you are in business and I was like in the amount of planning I do for business versus the amount of planning I do for my marriage like the business far outweighs oh yeah so well you went to school and studied that for years to figure out how to do it we don't have that kind of school for

parents we should we should we should so the only school that I'm aware of is like you know literature like you guys have put out there which is what's so amazing and and why we're happy to have you on the show and we're going to change that though with a course we'll have a school that's the goal but I'm curious Linda what of all you've done accomplished written what would you say is the one thing you're most proud of though as you reflect as I reflect I think The fact that my kids are my best friends. I adore my kids. Every one of them, we have such a fun relationship.

And I'm so grateful for the Internet. You know, there's so many bad things like, can I get up? Oh, my goodness. WhatsApp. We watched our son run the New York Marathon last Sunday. The whole family was on, like, hooray, hooray. I mean, everybody was, and he was actually talking to us as he was going. That's amazing.

WhatsApp and so on. Our girls go. go away once a year together our daughters and daughters-in-law and they're fabulous we're four of each and tell them what you call that group it's pretty cool oh well we started out the mothers and future mothers of ire realm because all her daughters and her daughters and there's 10 of them and boy are they a group all three it is really really fantastic to have that and we'd go someplace really fun and and then we had that memory as well as and then we read a book before we go so we talk about it honestly i feel like our children and my husband are my best friends i just

they give me so much they just make my life so rich and so full and i think part of that is because they're willing to do it but part of it is because you know we planned some things and we that was the plan and somehow it worked out that's great what about you richard well i'll just piggyback a little on that we um me and my my sons and sons-in-law and went halibut fishing in Alaska the year before we went scuba diving in cosumel i mean we do things together and we call it the the fathers and future fathers of our rail and we talk a lot about family while we're there i mean we and they're brutally honest they're like you know i'll tell you the worst idea you ever had dad and we're not going to do it in our family i mean but i

just love the candor and the openness and it's not perfect we've got worries among our adult kids. Always worries. But what you need to, what young parents like you guys need to realize is what you're doing right now with this intentional, deliberate, sort of proactive parenting,

you're building, you're not only doing that to raise great kids and to have them maximize their chance to be happy. It sounds funny to say, but you're doing it for yourself in your older years. You're building.

a legacy and a kingdom, if you will. That's a funny word, but scriptures talk about families as a kingdom, ultimately. And you're building toward that thing so that they'll always be there, you know? And the worst thing in the world, I shouldn't reveal my prejudices like this, but we were spent a lot of time in the Southwest. And when you see these communities that are adult communities, and no kids are allowed and you just go there to play golf and sort of wind down your life and die,

that's the most depressing place in the world. It's integrated families that stay together and that help each other. I do have to say that I think that our faith has made a huge difference in our family too. We're Christians and we all love Jesus Christ and try to do our very best to follow them and do better and be better all the time.

But we also have spent a lot of time in the Muslim world and the Hindu world and Saudi Arabia and there are so many loyal dedicated people but I feel like they have a step-up because they have something beyond themselves because of the faith

that they have no matter what the faith is but we do have that in common in our family and I do have to add that probably my best thing is this partner right here honestly I would just be out on the street. Especially on Sundays after we've

worked out all the time. I never thought of what she just said. Have you ever thought of that this way? That you're the best part of her life? You know, that's for sure. I knew that one. No. We've been talking a lot about traditions and we're thinking of things like holidays and birthdays and so on. But I never made that connection. Linda just said often it's our faith tradition, whatever that might be, you know, whether it's Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Christian. Those really are the powerful traditions. And I think people, even if they're not particularly religious, they really examine themselves,

their deepest traditions have something to do with the spirit. They have something to do with prayer or with telling each other about their faith or their good experiences they've had. Or just the humility of feeling like, I can't do this all by myself. I need some help. That's a tradition.

Oh, and it's so amazing, because back to the Internet for a minute, about two months ago, our grandson, we got a message on WhatsApp. Isaac has just fallen out of the sky. He was paragliding. He's stuck on a rock. They are... Life flight is on his way. Everybody get on your knees and pray.

And everybody, I mean, that's not all 56, 67, but, you know, all of the adults. And the family got that so fast, and everybody was on the knees praying for him. And actually, he came out of red. I mean, he fractured a little bit in his neck. And there is no way he should have survived that. And so, you know, it is really, really a huge thing that pulls us all together. Yeah. A couple of things that come to mind.

One, the, you saying that your husband and kids give you so much, it's like not saying anything new that the best things in life are the intangibles. But like, it is, it's such. a I feel like uneven scales when you talk about the difficult things in parenting or marriage where it's like and the baby kept us up all night we didn't sleep at all or man my wife doesn't let me do this anymore whatever these are all just hypotheticals but it's like but the the benefits of like you know when you're fishing for halibut with your son who you've seen grow from a baby oh just it's the greatest dude I just think about Drew when she like does something by herself that I don't tell her I'm like that's the most beautiful

thing I've ever seen in my life and you just drew a circle so much it's so hard to describe though yeah hard to describe it's in hand it really is so amazing we again not to get into social commentary but we Linda and I were trying to decide whether we want to write something about this but we see the world moving more and more to where we also give lip service we say oh the family's the basic unit of society you know it always has been always will be but you watch what's happening and the individuals becoming more and more the basic unit of society and we're seeing more and more young people say you know what my family's not healthy for me anymore i don't feel good when i'm around them so i'm going to cut them off i mean it's this awful thing and they're not aware of what

they're actually doing but it's because hey they're not nourishing me i'm better off of if I don't have to react with them anymore. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's taxes extra. I'm like, wow.

Everything when the individual's the basic unit, it goes toward what? Selfishness and competition and when lose and what's good for me. And when it's about family, even though it's messy and it's hard and we're all worried about things, where is it taking you? Responsibility, sacrifice, caring, contribution, loving, contribution, everything. They're like opposite directions. So thank goodness for people like you who even, and frankly, I'm going to say something.

I think Linda will agree. You two have figured out a lot more than we had at your age. I'm serious about that. We were in our mid to late 30s before we started really grasping this proactive, strategic, deliberate, intentional approach to parenting.

Was that last year? That's off to you guys. You're way ahead of the curve. And you're doing a lot for others who are trying to be there. We have a lot of phenomenal mentors around us. Yeah, but we are so thrilled to see you guys. where you are at this point in life saying come on sit down and write some goals get this get this

together now because there's so many that are just not knowing exactly what to do or how to do it fact and i again i'm we're talking too much i want to hear more of your questions but i but i have to because i'm this is we we don't think what you're doing and what we've been trying to do all these years yeah there's a lot of how-toes and there's a lot of prescriptive stuff but the The real goal, we haven't in this little mission statement that we have, and it would apply probably better to you than it would does. We're trying to popularize parenting. We're trying to celebrate commitment.

We're trying to validate values. We want to make those things. We want parents to say, I'm missing out if I don't get in on that. They're having some joy. And Sean and Andrew are having a life experience that I want. I want to emulate that. And once they say that, they're in good shape. They'll find the stuff.

They'll find the how-toes. They just got to make that commitment. Well, I mean, I feel like before interviewing you guys, I told Andrew I was like good for one more kid and then I'm done. I think we might have to go for nine. I'm going nine. Let's go. We have both the kids giggling last night.

I know. We had both the kids giggling like night. I had them on the couch. I was less on them. when they're giggling. I was like, we're going to have a million kids. We will have kids because when you have moments like that, you're like, oh, that's the peak of the mouth.

Those moments, you know, are not always every day. But it is so joyful to have those little children and watch them grow and develop. And we can just see the love in your eyes. Yeah. The love in their eyes and your pictures. Oh. Well, I want to thank you for the time during this interview.

For those listening that want to learn more about Richard and Linda and what they're up to, we'll link information down below, including a link to the course that they put together to give you a toolbox for how you can have a strong family life, these three steps to a strong family that Richard alluded to, how you can create family values and traditions. What I think is in one way, the most difficult thing to talk about it is so ambiguous and hard to pin down, but also the most important thing as we think about raising our kids and having a fulfilling life. And I'll close with just saying that the fun thing that I found about getting old is like, it's like at 30. At 31.

It's like to the closest comparison is like compounding interest with finances, right? Where it's like, wow, you don't, you have $100 today. But if you wait and invest that in 10 years, you'll have $700 or whatever. And it's like the same principle applies. And the sooner you start the invest. A hundred percent. So, you know, I was praying with Jeff. last night i was like hey bud like gonna need patience this is my first time being a dad to a son

and it's like the more wisdom we can get from you all who have done it well uh and the sooner we can do that the better so anyway thank you for sharing the wisdom and uh this has been a treat our pleasure yeah thank you