Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 162 | forbes fortune couple dani austin and jordan ramirez

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

This week on Couple Things we got to interview the social media sensation, Dani Austin Ramirez and her husband, Jordan Ramirez! We talked all about the crazy world of social media, what it’s like working with your spouse, how to balance being parents and entrepreneurs and more!  To learn more about Dani Austin, check out the links below: Dani’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daniaustin/ Dani’s Website: https://daniaustin.com/ This podcast is sponsored by Modern Fertility ▶ Get $30 off your fertility test when you go to https://www.ModernFertilit.com/eastfam30 This podcast is also sponsored by Better Help ▶ Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/EASTFAM today to get 10% off your first month! Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew  Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. I think we just gained two new friends. This was the chatiest we've been. Yeah. It was a really good conversation.

We didn't officially ever start the episode. We just kind of recorded the whole thing, rolled into it. Jordan Ramirez and his wife, Danny Austin. Yes. What a treat. What a treat. We have so many parallels to our lives. We both live in the influencing world, kind of found ourselves there.

Is that the only parallel? yeah they're they're way cooler than we are they are way cool there's not a lot of parallel we learned we learned so much about them how they operate how they um work together live together parent together do all of their things together and how they kind of find the boundaries to make that all a success this episode was the first time jordan and i met and we almost went on a trip to new york together and two weeks after and i was like yeah this makes sense i know this guy he could he could hang yeah uh but jordan dandy do a lot they have a company called divy which is a hair health company it's fantastic you've probably heard of it you probably seen it wildly successful they're

really successful they also have a podcast de-influenced um they also have youtube they have social media they're busy busy busy busy bees yeah they're all over the place they also have two babies and i think you're gonna like this conversation i learned a lot um we we had a lot of laughs as well so i think you'll enjoy it. We talked about their approach with the whole cancel culture and controversy when it comes to opinions and being so front-facing on social media platforms. Yeah, we kind of tackled it all. It was a good conversation. I hope you enjoy it. If you want to find out more about Jordan and Danny, we'll link their information down below. Without further ado, Jordan Ramirez and Danny Austin. Is this your home or office? So this room has like transitioned from being playroom

and it went back to like a conference room now it's podcast studio so it's slash playroom slash workout room so it's just kind of like that's really that's a good idea to just because I like the homie feeling homey vibe instead of getting like an office space or something so that's it's very hard to be a parent and then also like try to be managing the team or like so we're like let's try to do separation yeah yeah that's so smart yeah no we I think we're in the phase right now of like trying to figure that out I feel like I'm sure what a treat it's like the marriage too yeah has it helped the marriage yes a lot a lot because I was like I just need quiet I need space I need my own place to go you're the same yes this person right here literally I was

I was crying in bed saying the same exact thing last night I'm like I have not been alone by myself yes yeah like there's always people in in and out of our house yeah always and then he's the guy who could like work 24-7 and i was like if you're going to work you need an office and you need to go somewhere because when you come home we're home and we're done i've been mean to tell you i'm less like that now i've been really proud of you anyway but we're like the same person last year uh like then work 24-7 because we like launched dibby last year and this year i've been like really working hard on not being that and like okay five is when we you know transition from not working to this but it's like weird because what what we all do is so 24-7 if you let it be

and so the conversation we had last night was just like boundaries and having to redefine those boundaries as our kids get older when they were newborns it's kind of a different thing because they sleep so much but stella our daughter is starting to really like understand what's going on and she like knows the you know team members names and stuff and it's just like it's not bad it's just like do we want to condition her to know home as like a work environment does that make sense yeah we were literally talking about that last night but like Jordan I didn't see him at all last year he was so busy work 24-7 and then now I feel like he's like you were saying you're like I'm not like that anymore like he's like on the weekends like we can actually do like he plays

paintball on the weekends and like we have our weekend ball oh wait what that's like a hobby i'm not a golf guy i'm a paintball guy and you've got to come because it's the most fun you'll ever have every saturday he's like so into he has like all his gear he's like his backpack he had this like new helmet with the new goggles i'm so handedly bribing the sport of paintball and you can be a part of it if you want to come wait danny how you're in no i haven't got i'm scared He comes home and he has these welts that are, like, huge. One time he, we actually went to Austin for, like, this, like, networking event. And the day before we left, he got hit was, like, right here in the middle of his forehead.

Like, just, like, such a kill shot. And, like, he had this huge, like, well on his forehead at this dinner. I ended up, I was like, babe, you have to, like, put the seal around. Like, I, like, was in there trying to cover it up. I was like, should I, I was like, should I maybe just, like, use it as a conversation starter? but it looked weird so we covered it looks like it looked like he like intentionally put something like right i don't know so um so yeah he's really into paintball now most most husbands are like hey do you golf i'm like no but my husband paintballs but i feel like they always love that yeah they always end up

coming i'm telling you'll have the most fun you'll ever have are you a golfer no no so because that's not the phase of life like who has time what are we doing i'm not going to go off for five hours like what so i'll go paintball go get your aggression out and paintballing jordan so check I got a thing I'm doing this year, one competition a month, all right? And like, last night, I didn't tell you this yet either. I signed it for a go-kart race, which I'm hyped about. But I don't know, like a competition might be a strong word for a paintball, but I do want to come maybe in June or July for a Saturday and just like run it. Oh, no, I got some friends up in Nashville that wanted to, they've been wanted to play too, so I'll come up to you and we can go

in the Nashville. Have you ever played Civil War style paintball? Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, you know, no, it's not my thing. You know, like I, they do this thing on, if you go to paintball on your birthday, they do this thing where you have to take your shirt off, and they call it the white rabbit, and you have to, they line everyone in your birthday party up against you, and you have to sprint down a 50-yard line.

Absolutely not. The entire time. I'm in. So that's really turned me away from Civil War paintball. but we can try it together I mean do you know the civil war style paintball do you know what we're talking about okay so you know in the civil war back in the old days they used to literally just fight in lines right and so this is what we're replicating is you have one team standing facing the other and you have to alternate taking shots so one at a time you just drive every it's crazy every shot you get to

take a step closer yeah you have to stand there helpless and let the team shoot you that would be a It's a really fun double date, to be honest. Hold on. We're going on a deep dark paintball tangent here real quick. I do have one paintball story for you guys, which I think will help you appreciate our relationship even more. You forgot about this? Yeah, I don't think about this. When we were dating, I remember I had like, I had told Andrew something when we were dating that really like pissed him off.

Like, for better or for worse, it had pissed him off. And he took it like a champ. He was like, okay, you know, I'm just going to digest this information. thank you for telling me and then I don't hear from him he goes off to football practice and he calls me like later that night and he's like hey babe and I was like great

oh he's over this whatever he's like actually do you want to come do something with all of like the teammates and I was like yeah this is fun cool he's like meet me at this address and what he didn't tell me is I showed up and I was like the only girl it was the entire

football team paintballing he had put me on the opposing team of him with nothing but linebackers and just shot me for like two hours another complicated factor that her ex-boyfriend was also there so i went like mel gibson patriot style just you know full-on savage to both of them and i had to break the news to him that one of my ex-boyfriends was his teammate and they didn't like we hadn't told him yet we were early on in dating and that was why and he put me on my ex-boyfriend's team i dominated jordan i took care of business but Oh, I believe you.

I believe you're a natural athlete. I'm not an natural athlete, so we should definitely play together. Yeah. Oh, man. Does it hurt, Sean? It hurts so bad. Yeah, that's what I've heard. I don't know.

The adrenaline takes over, though, for sure. That's true. That's true. 100%. Andrew, what's the heart behind the competition a month? You know, what was the spur of the moment that started? That's cool. How old are you?

30 32 he's like yeah I'm 30 so like well okay you reached this point in life by the way this is the coldest intro we've ever done to a podcast we're just we're just ripping it rolling into I don't know where we'll start the whole thing I like how it's going um so like every four years of your life you're used to like transitioning phases learning something new kind of thing so it's like middle school the high school high school to college college like your first job then you like transition to something new and like i don't know i'm 31 i feel like i've been chugging along here my football career's done i'm like i got to have something to like look forward to and to challenge me and to like it's like a turn of a page kind of thing so are you only going to give yourself a month

to train for each each competition yeah no no the point the that doesn't seem smart one of my skill sets is having no shame so like i'm not here to win i just want to so like are you ever watch pumping iron with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jordan? I think I've seen it. It was a couple years ago, but I know what you're talking about. I think it's one of the best documentaries I've ever seen. But I'm not even kidding.

It's ridiculous. Don't get me wrong. But bodybuilding, I have, I don't understand it at all. It's like, I just kind of think it's weird. So the whole thing is also an empathy building exercise. So like dive into something, like I might do a bodybuilding contest just so I can. No, you're not. just so i can learn about it and then hopefully grow appreciation but it's like yeah no i i

hey listen they might not get this but i totally imbiving with what you're saying i love it like i feel i feel like you get into he like really dives into something like pretty much like every six weeks and he becomes like upset like okay remember you went through that that oh hip hop oh my gosh he got into y'all like i love my husband so much but he's not good at dancing Yeah, but I love, I love dance, like, not dance movies, like, don't show me ballet movies, like, break dancing movies. Yes, absolutely. Not step up one, step up one, blame, step up two, step up three, you know, they're all good, but yeah, so. So when we first got married, he didn't tell me where he was going, but he'd just be, like, gone for a couple hours.

Come to find out, he was taking, like, one-on-one private hip-hop lessons. And then it's so cute because, like, I think you're a guy for you to have, like, a recital or something. Oh, a battle, babe. A battle. Okay. And then it was, like, the cutest thing because after six weeks, he showed me what he was learning. I didn't tell her. I would just be like, oh, I'm going to go out.

This was before we have kids. Just no shame. No shame at all. But he showed me what he was learning. It was literally, like, a sidestep, like. Yeah. He was done. He wasn't, like, any tricks.

or anything. It was just like literally like the, and it was so cute. But like, that's what, or remember that phase you got really into like puzzles? Puzzles. Yes. Puzzles was a really big one for a while. Wow. But the point being, listen, you go figure out go-kart, man. And maybe it's not your thing. Hip-hop wasn't my thing. It happened way cooler in my head than it did in reality. But like, I'm behind you on this new journey, Andrew. Do we have videos of you dancing, Jordan? No, no. They're all destroyed. 100%. We talked to another couple.

You remember Missy Franklin? She was like a swimmer in the Olympics. She wasn't like a swimmer. She was one of the most iconic swimmers of all the time. I need a doubt player. But her husband says, I'm a dancer. Like, that's what he can dance. But that's on his job.

Like, that's his hobby. And I was like, I very rarely meet people that say that. So I need, what do you mean? Like, show me. I, like, I need a video. but yeah yeah no it never worked out it was one of those hobbies that definitely uh faded it did fade what are you into danny i really like playing tennis i feel like right now you just don't have time you know i love um i was actually on a competitive country western swing dance team

seriously yeah um my high school you know growing up in texas there were like four or five high schools that had country western swing with it's basically like cheerleading in a sense of like all the stunts and like but it's easier because you also have like all these it's it was basically all the football players in high school or in college you know that just like throw the girls around um but it's so fun because dancing like that type of dance is something that you can do forever like if you ever go to like honky tonk and you see these cute couples in their 70s still dancing it's so sweet so I like that I like to run I like to read and then yeah we're basically just like creating content 247 which y'all are too i don't know how you all do it i mean

so is your every day like are y'all together just like tied at the hip all day long yes yeah we've we've tried to like learn how to give each other space especially with our business and i feel like you guys are similar so i'm curious how you would answer that but the more our business grows the less capabilities we both have yeah so we've really learned that with every like stage of growth we kind of have to give each other more and more space to just go off and do their roles which actually has

given us more space apart which has been nice I kind of like spinning every second no you don't no you don't but yeah we work together lived together parent together married everything

we've developed our company together spin every waking second we do it along pretty well like we talk about we argue a lot but like we do with all the time we spend together it's amazing we don't argue more yeah how do you guys balance like the the company owners hats with parenting hats with marriage hats like do you what's your strategy there we're like we're still figuring out but I think too what really helps is we are very different and I think we really respect each other's strengths so we're not like I know what Jordan is really good at so I kind of let him do his thing

and he knows what I'm really good at um but like you said like we we work really well together I know it's not like great for every couple um but it's like even working I feel like can turn into like a lifestyle or it's like a hobby like you don't even feel like you're working sometimes when you're with your spouse yeah um I don't know what would you say I would say like before we had kids like, you know, I didn't really describe what we did as a job. I described it as like a lifestyle. It's like, you know, we're living and kind of like experiencing all these really cool things and our, you know, job or lifestyle is to like document that, right? And it was really fun. I would say that the biggest challenge we've had the past, you know, two or so years

is just adding kids to the mix and then just kind of like recalibrating like what, you know, what we want this lifestyle to look like with kids, you know, like, you know, is Stella wanting to be on camera, you know, and they're really young right now, so I don't think that they understand, but as they grow older, like what do those boundaries need to look like? And then the other thing that's just really complicated, you know, the original workflow of balance was like we launched Divi, which kind of, you know, grew really fast. And so I sort of became the de facto CEO of Divi while Danny was still more on the content side. So we're sort of in this like transition phase it feels like right oh yeah um no and it's i think what's been

so great about you know diversifying and not just creating content every day is like because if if our kids don't want to be on camera or if we don't feel comfortable sharing something like we have backup plan kind of we have something else that we're working on and so that way we can like set that boundary and just share what we want to share and not have to share like everything about our lives because before we got married or when we were first married before kids we shared everything it was like yeah because you know you're just responsible for like me jordan and like our marriage but now with our kids you know we're just trying to figure it out um but i don't know i like i said i just think that because we're so different i'm more of like the creative like more vision like i see and jordan's

more like okay structured like let's knock these things out and like you said like more like the CEO role it just our dynamic kind of works but probably the biggest challenge in like balancing those two skill sets was like you know leaving room for danny to be creative i don't know if you guys run into this as like content creators but like there's got to be moments where like Sean you have like this vision for what something wants to look at look like and Andrew you have this totally different vision and just like i've had to learn to kind of leave room to like not control everything and sometimes just like kind of just live life yeah just live life and be like hey like Danny like this is your

like how can I be best supportive in that and give up my control, you know, factor in that. And so that's been a big learning curve. I feel like we've gotten better at. Yeah. I mean, it's like at first it was like on the schedule. It was like three to four, like create a reel. And then, you know, three o'clock rolls around. I'm like, I don't feel like it. I don't want to fake it. Like on camera. I can't just, you know, I have to like have this feeling. So yeah, just having that flexibility and that time to kind of figure things out and go with the flow. That was kind of hard for Jordan at first but yeah what about that's one of our biggest mistakes or hard challenges that we always face is like we'll schedule it each day of like you have to create something here

and you get to the point where you're like I can't just create something like you can't do it out of thin air and usually gets pushed a few days or it develops naturally or whatever that totally I totally get that and like some of the I think what's so fun about our lifestyle or like about our jobs too is that like we can create that flexibility like we can create that flexibility like we are in control if we want to like just take a couple of hours off and go take the kids to the park or a trampoline park like we can but just giving ourselves that grace to like make those moves is I think it can be kind of hard sometimes because you're just wanting to stick to the schedule but I'm like what's the point if we're just working 24-7 and not able to like

hang out on the weekends or just like enjoy ourselves and so within your guys's business and your roles does one of you have like a final say or like how do you guys get through a disagreement when it comes to a business decision. Sure. Tell them about red, yellow, green. Okay, so what we have learned that kind of works for us, and not just in business, but even, like, decisions, like we just built a pool in our backyard, like big decisions like that.

We actually shared this on, I think, our first episode podcast, something we do, it's called red, yellow, green. And whenever we're making these big decisions, or you know we're creating like a big piece of content we it's red means that like I don't I don't have any opinion with this decision like Jordan can take like if it's designing the pool Jordan can design the whole pool I don't want to be involved in any meeting just go for it do your thing don't even ask me any questions yellow is like okay like I kind of want to be involved like just like let me kind of approve the final plan but I don't need to be involved in the weeds

Green is like, I want to be a part of every single decision and every single post that's made. We learned this because we did a influencer trip with Divi. We went to Cabo. And we were not aligned, like, creatively of, like, the reels that we were going to post, the Instagram space we were posts anything. And so we were both trying to, like, be in control. And things started getting posted on my Instagram that, like, I did not want on there or things were being missed.

And we were just like, Jordan was like kind of in like Mr. independent mode and was like just posting things. You know, and so we behind the scenes fought a lot on that trip. And we also had like, I mean, how many different,

how many people were on that trip? Like 10 or 12? Yeah, we had like our whole team. We had like, yeah, we had six couples. And y'all know how it probably is. Like you don't want to fight in front of like your employees

because that's not professional. So you kind of just have to put on this like happy face. And then we also had these amazing employees. And don't get me wrong. Like we really did take care of people, but it was hard to to fake it, you know. And so we learned from that trip, like Jordan didn't understand that I wanted to be involved in every single decision. And he thought that he was doing me justice and doing like the business justice by just taking control, you know. And he thought it was like helping.

But I was like, this was my idea to go on this trip. And like, I have, you know, I want to have say and what's going life too. So we learned from that trip. We do red, yellow green, like, how involved do you want to be on these decisions? Jordan and his brother have like, they do some like real estate stuff on the side. They like buy homes and like lease them out. And that for me is a red because I get too like emotionally invested in all of these properties.

And I'm like, but does it have a closet? It does. And it just like takes so much time for me and too much energy. So I'm like, okay, you and your brother like I trust you guys. I'm red on that. You know, so we've kind of, it's just like trial and error and faking those things out. but I feel like communicating like that has helped us a lot. Yeah.

Do you find that the ratio of greens is equal between you guys? Or is one person always like, I always want to be involved? Or is it a situation where there's like a lot of mutual yellows or? I would say for, I mean, I think it's kind of like 50-50. Yeah, I would say it's gotten to be 50-50. I think that we had to go through growing pains just as like, professionals, I guess you would say, like with our teams and just realizing that in order to grow, you know, especially we learned this lesson at Divi, you know, which has like a team of 20 at this

point. Like we just had to learn that we have to trust other people to run things. And so I think it was like a lesson in letting go of control. And so we're more yellows on, you know, a lot of things than we used to be and just trust the people beneath you and then also just trust each other. Yeah. And of course you have like your babies. Like it's like your greens. Like it's like my my Instagram and like our social shirt. I'm like I'm green on everything. I'm like I'm like neon green. I'm like don't pose anything without me. But then it's like I can't be green on every single thing. And so giving up that control can be kind of hard. But then it just like freeze up it freeze up time like I said like for your weekends to go play paintball to go play tennis like

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Can you tell us the story of how Divy got started? I was trying to explain this to Andrew the other day because I have followed you from the very beginning. Really? Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So when we, so I actually started losing my hair like in college. I was, I started my YouTube channel when I was in college.

I went to the University of Texas in Austin. We both did. And, you know, I was in a sorority. I was doing young life at the time. And then I was also like signed to a manager in L.A., you know, creating content. tent. And it was just so, so much on my plate. And so I was like just always stressed. So I started like picking my hair out. Like I'd be studying and there would just be like all this hair on my desk. So fast forward a little bit, you know, tried to cover it up with like hair extensions or bleaching

my hair, whatever it was, met Jordan, got married. And then it got to a point where like I remember one day when we were married, I like looked in the mirror and I was like, Jordan, I have no more hair. Like I don't even want to leave the house. I was kind of so embarrassed. So Jordan, of course, like just being a typical dude was like, well, I don't get it. Like the Kardashians wear a wig. So like, why can't you wear a wig? I'm like, Jordan. Like I can't wear a wig because I'm not the Kardashians. So he started like doing some. Do they actually wear wigs? Yes. Oh yeah. Like a ton of celebrities wear wigs. You wouldn't even believe. Um, so. Yes. Yeah. It's crazy. Like and now because I've worn wigs like I can I know like I can tell but anyway um so he took me to like he

googled like wig shop Dallas you know took me to the first wig shop it was like a Halloween store like they had like the plastic like $10 neon blue wigs and I'm like I show up there I'm like I'm always going to be like have no hair be balls um so fast forward we did some more research we ended up flying out to L.A because there were like no wigs in Dallas and when I say wig like the good ones you know that don't look like they're like plastic and if there were wigs in dallas they're like wigs are like two to five grand like they're the good ones are so expensive so went out to l.a got my first wig named her kim kim i remember her kim named her kim yeah you was so funny though um because i went from hair extensions to wigs no no one could tell like yeah

no one knew i wore them for a month and didn't tell anyone we went to chicago with my parents and and my brother and now sister-in-law and we're at the entire time let's not say anything and let's see if they know and they were just like oh danny love your new haircut so crazy um so basically i took a year where i just like really focused on my lifestyle overall wellness working out eating right started working on like my scalp health and started kind of creating like my own um scalp serum essentially that could like help my hair grow back had lots of like amino acids and peptides kind of like detoxify your scalp because like another big thing um which i don't know if you use dry shampoo shan but like that's like a big product that a lot of women use

but it like sits on your scalp and actually like clogs the follicle where your hair cannot really grow anymore it's kind of like having like a blackhead or something um so just start kind of working on my own formulas and um you know just through my instagram stories i had connected with a lot of women that were going through something similar and they just started asking me hey can you send this to me can you can you create this like can you actually make this a thing and so but it was like it was like in a petri just in our bathroom we're like hey that's probably not smart yeah so we ended um like finding a chemist to work with and like really great partners and just launched divy like the first product was just a scalp serum thought that like that would be it you know move on

with our lives um but it was just crazy like you know it worked for me and i always like like i always believed in it but it wasn't until people started sending me like before and afters or like posting on their own instagram or sending it to their neighbor down the street that i was like oh my gosh this is really a thing and i think because a lot of the really good ingredients in it helped a lot of people like dandruff, psoriasis, um, itchy scalp, whatever it was. Um, so it kind of just like has grown and we ended up launching like shampoo conditioner. We're launching our our hair vitamin next week. Um, so it's very like organic, like never did. You know, I, I never thought I would like have a hair care company because I, I wasn't born with like great

hair, you know, like it's, but I think it's more so like I'm taking something that I'm like that I needed the most. And I think a lot of people were. relate with that because you see a lot of girls that like launch hair care brands that have gorgeous hair and it's like girl you're just born with that like that's just that's just genetics right there and so um so i think a lot of people kind of like resonated and related to the product um so yeah we're uh that's what we kind of do on the side it's been fun wow i i was telling him all of this i truly i remember finding you or being served you up on a platter by an algorithm at some point it was around the time where you started with your wigs and i followed your journey the entire way

and i was so mesmerized by one your vulnerability but just like your whole journey and your process and i remember being so happy as a follower when like you would make progress i was like oh my gosh this is so exciting um so i remember being there along with you but um i'm curious your guys's companies have like taken off uh you are massive influencers you have divvy now that has taken over everything you see it everywhere um with bigger businesses comes more eyes more scrutiny everything like that two-part question how do you support each other through that because more and more eyes is just harder especially with babies and the whole world of cancel culture does it ever like scare you to the point of not wanting to be in this world

like within the social media world yeah yeah you're the first question not the second Yeah, so the first question is just like, sorry, ask the first question one more time. How do you support each other? Oh, yeah. So I have learned, you know, a lot through that. I think that for me personally, like supporting Danny, you know, I always feel like I'm like a supporting character to like the content, if that makes sense. I'm sure, Andrew, I don't know if you feel the same way. Or you have your own social.

Like, it's way bigger than mine. I don't even post. But as we've had kids, it's been easier for me to kind of take a step back and be a little bit outside of the internet because, you know, the internet and real life are two totally different things. Like you go on to like Twitter for five minutes, you're like, this is not reality. Like it is just a battleground there. And so it's been helpful for me to take a step back and be kind of like the calming, hey, I know this feels really personal to you, Danny. and it feels like you're being attacked, but here's where you're doing things right. You know, here's where maybe like we could do things a little bit better and just be that grounding force.

There was a time where we were both so invested because we were trying to figure out what this thing was, like 2017, 2018, 2019, you know, I had switched from my job to jump into this. And so we were both just very invested in it. And I think that having Divi has helped like take a step back a little bit and just keep things grounded, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I mean, and to the second part of your question, cancel culture, I mean, we've been canceled so many times. At least five and a half times. I'm probably being canceled right now, and I don't even know. It's crazy. We were actually canceled like before, I think the word cancel culture was even a thing.

We were kind of pioneers. Yeah, we kind of like paved the way for a lot of you guys. So, no, I think that it definitely, it's always hard. Like, and I want to be that person so badly that's like, I don't care. Like, I know it, but it's just I'm, I'm human and I'm actually pretty sensitive. And so something that's helped a lot, actually, when we got married, do you remember, like, we, I don't know if it was like a part of our public vows, but we vowed to each other that we would, like, never read, like, hate pages, like the gossip forums, like any of those new websites that are coming out. Because when we were reading those, when we were dating, it really affected

our relationship. And we're spending too much energy on, honestly, there's things that weren't even really valid or true. And so that's helped a lot. We've just, like, set those boundaries. It's almost like, like, even whenever we post something, a lot of times, like, we engage for 10 minutes, okay, and then we're done. Like, let's stop reading comments. Let's stop reading DMs. There's, like, a time and a place for it. But having those boundaries is, is really important, but does it ever scare me to the point, like, I feel like I would want to quit? I definitely go through, like, weaknesses where I'm like, okay, I need to take a break, and I have taken breaks. Like, right now, I post on TikTok, but I'm not, like, consuming a lot of

TikTok. I'm not reading comments. Like, that's, I don't think it'll always be like that, but, like, I just felt like that was best for, like, my mental health and, like, where we're at right now. Yeah. But I also feel like, I don't think it'll ever, like, stop me from doing what I'm doing because I know deep down like where our hearts are at or like I feel really good about what we're creating. And so yeah, I don't, I think if I ever like did something like really, really wrong, maybe I would question like maybe taking a couple years off. But I, I'm confident in like the fact that we're always trying like better ourselves. We're creating content where we're like genuinely care about people and, you know, we feel like a purpose in what we're

doing. So, no, I don't think we'll ever quit, you know. We call ourselves the cockroaches. Yeah, some people are watching, oh, we'll make her quit tomorrow. They just like come right after. We're like, I'm always like, we're a cockroach. Like, you can't, you can stop with. I always oscillate between, like, reputation matters for sure. But it's like, it also, in comparison to when you're on, when you're on like a mission and you're like hey i'm doing this for like a strong purpose the reputation like the reputation is insignificant in comparison to that so like i i think it helps in maybe achieving your purpose but it's also like not the end goal is to like it's not to be the nice guy it's like no it's not to please everyone yeah we live in such an evil world where

that's literally impossible i also do you guys know uh the Hulcums, Drew Holcomb is like a musician and his wife. Oh yeah. Was he Penny's, no, no, no, that's not Pellon, but Drew and Ellie Holcomb, right? Yeah, yeah. Super good. Yeah, they shared something that is really stuck with me.

He said the human heart is not meant for fame. Like when you think about one, the effect that knowing about all the tragedies that are happening in the world, just today, like, it's almost hard for like the heart and the mind to to cope with that it's like it's too much tragedy right but also all the feedback that you're getting from millions of people uh it's just you're not you're not like really built for it and i think that's a that's the beautiful and tender thing about marriage where it's really the person that knows you the best right and so their

criticism really carries the most weight uh They can, like, it can sting the most, but also, like, along with that comes the responsibility of knowing, like, hey, this person trusts you to give meaningful feedback. Like, hey, Sean, you know, I know that the internet's saying X, Y, Z, but here's my take on it, having spent 24 hours a day with you for the last seven years of our life. Like, I have a way better perspective than, you know, whoever. on the internet but I feel like the I feel like we our businesses have been the most blessed whenever our relationship with like that is all intact you know I feel like the seasons that

have been the hardest is when we kind of let both habits and like hard slip into you know hearing the feedback loop of what comes through DMs like too much and latching onto it but you know when we kind of call it what it is which is more of a purpose slash responsibility but it's not really like for us or ours, you know, it just feels like those have been the seasons where our marriage is firing on all cylinders, like we're doing well as parents, like our business is successful. And so it's all just about perspective, but, you know, the entertainment industry as a whole is such a trap for so many people. And so I think it's like you don't see a lot of people come out of it, humble themselves, you know, like good. You know, like it kind of corrupts people

a lot of the times and so you know it's it takes a lot of effort to remain true to who you are and like you know you're especially your faith perspective in all this as well but yeah no and it's funny that you say that because I'm always like babe like I'm not we're not meant to be worshipped like there's no way I like none of us can handle that I was actually even I've seen Taylor Swift I'm a huge Taylor Swift fan and I went to her concert the first night in Dallas and like just seeing these girls like go wild over her like there was like a moment where it kind of made my stomach do like a flip flop where I was like this is like kind of scary and it's like not not sad but like it's it's scary because Taylor's getting all this attention it's like does she even

really like know the truth anymore because it can sometimes like fame or all this attention can kind of combo with the truth or make it like harder to find um And so I remember, like, I turned to one of my friends. I'm like, okay, wait, is this? And there was a point in her show where she's like, man, I just feel so powerful. And it's like that type of attention can probably give you too much power to where if you're not like responsible with it, it can turn into something kind of scary. But yeah, I think like what you're saying even about reminding each other of the truth

and having people around you that really know you. I think that like when I have been canceled in the past and like things just feel like and your reputation is maybe being destroyed and it can feel like the world is just, you know, everybody hates you. I think my first inclination obviously is to go to Jordan. And then it's also just to like go to my friends and my community, like the people that really know me and the first thing I do is I texted to them. I'm like, okay, can we all get together?

And then you're with them and you're like, this is all that matters. these are people that actually know me and that love me and they'll speak into me if I did nothing wrong and they'll tell me because they hold me accountable like that. But like those are the people that I need to like really be listening to, not these people on the internet just maybe don't really know you, you know. Yeah. And last thing I'll say on this is like the craziest thing about so like such a stretch to say we've been canceled. We joke about it. But it's like you know what it means. They just kind of like comes in storms. But like it's been wild because we could probably look back at every single one of those situations where we thought, oh my gosh, like the world

hates us or this group of people, usually small group of people hate us and they're very loud about it. And we can look back at every single one of those circumstances now in retrospect and be like, man, like that was what God was doing in that situation. Or like, here's what reconciliation looked like. And, you know, so many people that we feel wronged us or we felt wronged by in those situations, like we've forgiven. And there's just so much power in that. You know, and it's like brought us like closer together as a team. It's like reinforced our mission and our purpose of like, you know, hey, it's not always going to be easy. There's going to be desert seasons. But yeah, it's just, it's just wild. It's a wild internet out

there. I had a question. Can I ask them a question? Yeah. I had a question for you guys. It's kind of like an interesting question. But like, you know, like as believers, you know, with everything that you're saying and like this being like a dark world you know and social media not all being good like how have you guys like approached social media like as a mission or a purpose if that makes sense um we it's gone through like ebbs and flows I feel like we've used social media for different purposes throughout the years and I feel like it's kind of all come to a head when we got to a point with kids where we were like we have to be doing something for good because we have to be able to teach our kids why we're doing this it's not it can't just be to make money it can't just be for

followers like we have to have a good reason and we ended up launching our network which was family made not knowing if it would ever work not knowing if it would grow if people would like it but it was this idea of we love family and the most impactful thing that has happened to us is building a family and that has kind of what has changed our view on all social media and the communities you build and we just wanted to really uplift other families and communities and so with our mission and social media and like our faith and everything I feel like up until probably the past year I'd say more so the past year or two I felt like I had to be very like politically correct and do the trends and do everything and any more I feel more and more and

more compelled to be like no this is this is what we believe in and like we believe god is good and we believe family is amazing and it's like the hopefully the least polarizing but it is very polarizing to some people but we kind of don't care because it's it's so good and hopefully can help so many people yeah it can feel like it can be very freeing to like just share what you believe and know that not everyone's going to like it like I always tell people I'm like yeah I'm a flavor and I'm not everyone's flavor and that's okay. But for me to have longevity on this platform or on any of these platforms, like I have to share what I feel like is important and what it's all about. What were you doing before this, Jordan? Um, so graduated UT Austin,

2013, uh, was in Austin like texting, joined like an app startup. So it's 2013. So apps were cool and good back then. But it sold to a company called Daimler that owns Mercedes-Benz. I didn't, like, I wasn't, like, rich after that. So just clarifying. I was like, you know, 22 or whatever. And then went to another startup, like a wearable company and was the chief marketing officer there. And that one didn't succeed. So that failed. And then we kind of like got married and just jumped in. It was like a decision that we made where I pulled them over. to this side. Yeah, I was very resistant to it. I mean, I really felt like I had a career path for myself and like I wanted this. And it just, you know, it was a weird dynamic when like I would be sitting in like a corporate meeting. And Danny's like, hey, I just got invited to Europe. They gave me a plus one. You want to come. And so I just we just started very immediately seeing like, hey, there's just like once in a lifetime opportunity to build our lives like this. And it took me a while. I won't say it was easy. I don't know if you've experienced this, but I saw, you know, I was not, had I not met Sean,

this would not be my life at all, right? Yeah. And I think everyone probably generally in marriage would say that, but with Sean having turned professional as a gymnast at age 12 and then she's on all these shows and then like walking into that and being a, having a front row seat to like, to whatever degree she's famous has been so fascinating and I think like fame is often misused I think there is one good benefit from it and that's like people automatically feel connected to you and it's like the the impulse to approach you on the street is there and it's like hey so what do you do with that is it like no I'm too

good for you and not right now like you're wasting my time or is it hey you know we might be going to lunch and we might have 30 seconds but what's your name and i'm sean it's good to meet you um so but anyway to answer your question about social media i think my goal with it the only way i feel comfortable sharing on social media is to harness whatever attention we get and like try to deflect that towards meaningful like sources right so whether that be like people ask you, I'm sure, hey, how did you sleep, whatever, sleep train your baby or how did you, what did you eat during pregnancy or how are you guys working together? And it's like, you really don't want my advice on that. I'm not qualified. I'm not going to give you any meaningful

advice. So it's like, but we do know this person who does this full time or like even products where it's like, you know that with kids one right thing can like change the game for you. So it's like that or you know I and I think it's increased the responsibility of me also knowing that you could go two routes with it one like just continually read all the comments about Andrew yeah wow you seem like such a great dad or like wow you seem like so fun or which is sucks all right because then you read the bad one and you're like oh freak yeah I hitch my carriage to the wrong thing but it's like it's really uh increased my urgency to like go to sources of wisdom myself and like read more books and like read the bible more and like do all these and like making

sure that my house is an order before i start sharing all my dirty laundry you know yeah oh my gosh so true do you all read do you read your comments like how much are you all like in on the the communication with your your audience you read more comments than I do I read more comments than he does I it's really hard for me because I don't ever want to read them to like self-indulge or like yeah you know read the things that I don't like and I just don't want that feeling but I do think it's a responsibility within like what we're doing to make sure people are and I never allow things within our comments that I wouldn't want our kids to read. So I try to screen things or at least diffuse things that are happening

that I don't think are acceptable within our platforms. I have a different opinion on this. But they did that thing where they switched the interview. They asked us the question. I know they did. But it's interesting though. Like whenever you meet someone in our industry, like we're all in the same boat. we're all figuring it out.

Like I'm genuinely curious because I'm like trying to figure out. But it's the same thing. Even with the comments, it's like I love being in the comments or the DMs mainly because like I love connecting with people. I love having those conversations. But like all it takes is like one bad conversation for me to like feel bad for like the next two hours. So it's like where is like is that healthy or is it not?

But it's but I agree with you. Like it is important to kind of nurture that. community, screen everything, connect with people, make sure that everything is being received well. I will say, though, I am 100% in a phase where I'm not reading anything. I feel like I'm more sensitive at the moment in reading things. I kind of people went through a wave there where they were just not nice. And I feel like I was seeing evil in the world. And I just had to go read the Bible more.

I was like, please, let's turn this around. Yeah. I always joke with people that I feel. like, you know, if anyone ever wants just sort of a pulse on the mental health of America, just call me because we can always see it, you know, right in the DMs. I'm like, oh, bad day for America. Like, let's, let's not do this, you know. And so it's, it's really as you feel the weight of, you know, the mental health crisis. Some days when they're just angry, I'm just like, I'm not, I'm not going to be here today. I just take this day off. I'm just, it's not going to worth it.

That's how I feel about Twitter every day, to your earlier point. Bro, Twitter is so gnarly. it's crazy it's okay i i build lists for myself i don't do the whole like uh like the it's just the open feed thing i just build lists like i have a different list for different interesting things yeah yeah um twitter's assess pool don't don't that and reddit and stay off of it all right so we've talked about divvy um and i know we're running out of time here but you also just launched a podcast yourself de influence tell us about it yeah um so that was kind of my initiative to have to share things that are in longer form i don't know if you feel this way but there's on instagram it's like you don't have enough time to really dive in and then if you do say

something it can be taken out of perspective out of uh context um or you know it can just be like a screenshot or whatever it is so i felt like with a podcast we could really dive into some of the topics that we wanted to talk more about so So call it de-influenced just because I'm kind of like de-influencing myself, de-influencing kind of the industry, kind of stripping it down. And, yeah, to be honest, it was, we've had like about six or seven episodes, and it's a totally different game. I mean, you'll know it's so much work, but I've really enjoyed it.

And I've just, now we're working on, like, having different guests. And for now, the first six or seven episodes have just really been. sharing like what my audience has asked most about which is you know marriage working together um hate online how we balance our career um offline and online parenting things like that and so now i'm excited to have guests and kind of like dive a little bit deeper i think podcast is like my favorite thing we've ever done really i think it's it's the first time on like social platforms you feel like you're actually connecting yeah and it's not like sound bites like you were saying and you don't have 15 seconds to get the word like the idea across you can actually like be human

which is great be human and and give your like the grace to learn things and not be stuck like I feel like my you know once you post something on Instagram people like will always oh but you said this one thing and like hold you a but I feel like on a podcast you can learn and have opinions and change and grow yeah there's like room for nuance like within podcast is longer form you know people always be like well are you going to address this or why don't you talk about this and it's like because we have 15 second clips to do it and it's like weird if we do it you know and so it's like just easier to talk about things in this medium right your whole like intro announcement real for that was epic dan it was with the pink background

chair and it was great so well done thanks guys we had no idea what what we were getting into Well, I will say I saw you guys post on Instagram today And I'm honored to be part of the top three couples To be friends with you guys That's why we're interviewing you You guys are freaking cool I would love to be friends

Can we please be friends and stay in touch Come to Nashville, go paintballing And yeah, let's please keep in touch Thank you so much for being on our show today We're huge fans Thanks for having us We're a huge fans, too, and we will definitely hit you up when I'm trying to set my brother up in Nashville next time. We'll be there.

Wait, how old is he? He's 34. We got single girlfriends. Yeah, my opinion is... No, no, you get it. He's a great guy. Okay, he's a great guy. The thing is, is I think that for Landon, it was just like, it's the right timing now.

You know, I think he's ready. He just bought a house, like, huge house. I think it's like five bedrooms and he's living there by himself. Wait, is Landon the one that you did The Bachelor with on Instagram? Yeah, that's amazing. She literally did a whole Bachelor series

on her Instagram for him. Twice. Twice. What are we doing here? And they've been the most amazing girls. I thought, yeah, I won't get into the need to agree. But yes, no more seasons of that. but if you have any single friends let me know wow we'll just send them over yeah

i'm so glad we met you guys thank you for the time yeah thank you guys this has been awesome we appreciate it and happy early birthday to your son thanks guys yeah all right