Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 176 | shawn and andrew interview their favorite band

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

In today’s episode we got to sit down in-person with the incredibly talented singer, songwriter and guitarist, Bear Rinehart, and his wife, Mary Reams Rhinehart. Bear is a founding member and lead singer of the band NEEDTOBREATHE and also launched a solo career under the name Wilder Woods. Bear and Mary have three boys, Wilder, Woods and Waters, and have so much wisdom to share on parenting, marriage, career and more. We’re huge fans of Bear’s music and hope you check it out using the links below! This episode is sponsored by Needed! Use code FAMILYMADE for 20% off at https://thisisneeded.com Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions and manage your expenses the easy way by going to https://RocketMoney.com/eastfam. NEEDTOBREATHE:  https://www.needtobreathe.com/ https://www.instagram.com/needtobreathe/ https://www.youtube.com/@needtobreathe/videos https://www.facebook.com/NEEDTOBREATHE Wilder Woods:  https://www.iamwilderwoods.com/ https://www.instagram.com/iamwilderwoods/ Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew  Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. you guys might be the coolest people we've ever had on the show like the coolest I don't know if standing ovations after an interviewer I'm such a big fan I just got to say this is one of the surreal moments where I'm like freaking no I'm geeking out I had to say I had to

get it out yeah yeah what's up everybody welcome back to a couple things with Sean and Andrew a show all about couples and the things they go through today you get to see Andrew become a super I couldn't help it. I'm such a big fan. I was geeking out and I'm still smiling. I know. I'm trying to at least stay cool because they're human beings, Andrew. But it was pretty cool.

We had Bear Reinhardt and Mary Rames, his wife. And honestly, they were so thoughtful. And we talked about toxic ambition. We talked about what does it look like to be inspired? Like, what does that mean? We also talked about like intentional parenting a ton, which was really cool. We talked about Bear's college football career, and I learned, I feel like I had several perspective shifts throughout this conversation.

I hope you listening also have the same experience. Also, if you're listening, don't take this offensively, but if you've been living under a rock and you don't know the name Bear Reinhart, it's Need to Breathe, okay? If you don't know that, I'm sorry. Just do yourself a favor. Go look up, Need to Breathe, listen to some songs. Some of the best musicians ever. Yes, and also Wilder Woods is a solo act that Bear has done.

But the reason for this conversation was because Need to Breathe is coming out with their ninth album called Caves. Bear says it's the best collection of songs to date. Which is Wild. Wild. So we'll link more information for that down below. Without further ado, we bring you this conversation with Bear and Mary Reims Reams writing. heart of need to breathe. No, you guys might be the coolest people we've ever had on the show. Like, the coolest. Like, look at the, look at this shirt.

It makes me feel any better than my son, Woods, the middle one. He's our personality one. He was like, mom, what are you doing? It looks like a race car driver today, though. Three-year-old has started that where I'll come out wearing something and she said, Mom, I don't like that. And I'm like, wow. I feel judged right now. I don't like this. Yeah. Yeah. Or she'll be like, why aren't you wearing a dress today. I was like, mom doesn't wear dresses, honey.

We've got a body shamer in our oldest. He's like obsessed. I think from superheroes, like abs is a big thing now. And so anytime he's like, he's like, why don't you have abs? He says it all the time. Or like, if I'm getting in the jacuzzi or something, he's like, we got to work on that. Seriously.

I do not know where that comes from. That's amazing. They're like the most honest little things. I know. And even when our daughter will say stuff, I'm like, honey that's not nice but then I'm like you're just speaking I don't know if I should teach you not to say this

or yeah would you mind bear since I've never seen a tattoo of jean shorts before telling the story of that because it's of course I was I was in counseling and I think it's EMDR

am I getting the letters right is that right yeah yeah okay sweet and we're doing this but basically it's the idea is like you kind of visualize your closing your eyes and you're trying to visualize these things and you go through like some traumatic memories too but this was like a good time it was like think of the best time in your you know childhood life like when you were the most confident and happy and present and all that

and I immediately picture myself at this campground I grew up on and he's like what are you wearing in it and I'm like jean shorts no shirt and so I was in uh I was on tour with one republic and we were and they brought a tattoo artist in they're like you want to get one we got 20 minutes you know before the show or something like I was like uh yeah I think so They did that in 20 minutes? Yeah. That's really impressive. Yeah, I did a good job.

Who were this tattoo artist? I need his contact. Yeah, that's a little reminder. I just saw her shoes, too. You guys are for sure the coolest mustache. I wear these shoes all the time in part because they give you a little bit of height. I feel like every woman is like, if I was just a couple inches taller, you know? But people ask about them a lot.

Do you have any tats? I don't. You know, I've thought about it at various times in life. And then now I think I'm like past the age. And now everybody has them. So now I kind of don't want to get it because everybody has it. So I have it. No tattoos.

It's flipped. You'll get my face someday. I love tattoos on me. I love tattoos on me. With abs. Yeah, exactly. It's flipped. Sean has some tats and is eager to get more.

I have zero and don't. I used to have an interest. The same thing. But now I'm like, I think I'm too old. Like I'm going to be the- I literally one time when I was probably like 27 went to set up an appointment, went to the tattoo store. And, of course, it was like, not anything like.

It was like a word or something in red. I was going to get in my arm. And I think the tattoo artist just sized me up and was like, no. He literally told me no. I was like, you are. This is not for you. I actually had the same thing. I had an appointment set up for like six months ago.

And I think it's just being a mom now. She like, I like was driving to the studio and I was like, I don't think I can do this. It was more me. I was like, is it weird for a mom to know how? like more i don't know it's a built-in accessory that's what i like them and i like now it's like now once you go it's like well might as well just keep yeah you rock them yeah just you know have fun with it dang bro you guys are just freaking loaded with swag i'm i would never have bracelets this is unbelievable and he's gonna walk in tomorrow with like brazenks i'm so do the rings have

oh yeah well this is the walder woods ring i made for the last record um we had it on the inside of the vinyl for it and then no just i pick them up on the road and stuff like that yeah there was a fan for a while that made some of those yeah i would get them after i started wearing like listening to stuff people like bring stuff really cool stuff to the shows you know is that a lion or uh yeah yeah i think it's like a brass knuckle kind of thing yeah i would not want to catch that one wrong yeah it's not yeah like boys won't pound it with me because they're like they're like easy easy so how long have you been touring um 20 years maybe a little over and you guys have been together 15 no we just had our 20 year

wedding wedding anniversary okay two weeks ago wow so you guys have been touring for as long as you've been yeah she was our first booking agent okay college kids of course and yeah I was like I think I can get some more shows on your books I gave her a script I played football in college at this little place with Furman and then and um and we needed like we're just trying to get like all the youth group shows and stuff. It was like, when the guys, when youth pastors

out of town, can we play? You know, give us 50 bucks. That's enough for gas. And I gave her a whole script to read, but she killed it. We still have the calendar

for her, like, booking and what the notes of people saying with that, you know. Are you still the booking agent? No. But interestingly,

another guy who went to Furman is a big agent at CIA and is. So it's, he and I joke that like, we're really the reason. That's right. Because he was in Furman too at the same time,

his dad was a manager so we're all kids and we met together i gave them the press kit which you probably don't even know what that is anymore because it's all electronic but and he gave it to his dad and his dad was their manager for the first half of their career he went on to like work his way up at c a so it's kind of it's kind of anything i remember back when press kits were like it was all in how you presented them and how you printed them like the folders and like Hard stuff. It's got to be nice. Yeah.

And we had the manila holder. There was like the best picture you all had on really nice paper. Of course that we were printing out ourselves like the church copier. And then, you know, buy a CD. Back when paper was a thing. So before we go back into your love story a little bit, we always love talking about, like, talking to couples. I'm curious. Yeah.

I'm curious the dynamic and how it's like shifted. So you guys have been together basically through your entire. your journey from when you're trying to make it to now you're literally a household name all four of them are household names. I'm such a big fan I just got to say this is one of the surreal moments where I'm like freaking no I'm geeking out I can't keep I had to say

I had to get it out. I'll say side note side story most embarrassing moment for my husband I'm going to say it for him was we had been rector in the studio with his wife and you committed a you committed a Cardinal sin, literally Cardinal sin.

He asked him to sing, and Ben was like, nah. So then he sang for him. And I was like, I was mortified. It was pretty good, though? We'll never do another interview. It's pretty good, though. It was, whatever. So I'm just curious how the dynamic has shifted between you guys,

because you guys have gone from literally, like, making it work to now you're all over the entire world and how it's kind of affected your marriage. Yeah, I mean, it's fun I mean, when you first say that I just think it still feels the same Yeah, you know, in the sense of like It still feels like we're trying to make it You know, I mean, it really does

It's like, when we first Like, we're together and the band started working And they're like, everybody would be like, How long are you gonna do this? Or like, what do you think? I was like, I don't know, we got about three months Worth of money It's like, and then we have to come home, I don't know what

And it's always felt that like time has gotten extended it feels like well maybe we got a couple more years or whatever um but it's always still feels like that in music it's it's just not um just not like you know i should have been a doctor or something or something with a real job you know um so it's always felt like that but i think for us it's it's um it's kept us humble because i think the conversations are really similar you know from the beginning of kind of like what why are we doing this and why is it okay for me to leave and go on tour and why all those i feel like we still have those conversations we probably have got um much better at that part you know i think it's something that we like implemented in the last

few years like six or seven years probably started doing like goal retreats together we just go away for a hotel for three days and like do a day of like just dreaming about stuff and then actually writing all the goals down and then the last day we're like um here's the stuff we're not gonna do you know we dream this but this is too much it's mostly no list by the end of the week yeah right it's like we got to we got to avoid some of that stuff so i think that part that part has been huge because I think you just know it's going to get rough like there's going to be times you're out for too long or I miss the boys games or that kind of thing and it's nice to have a thing to go back to like well we said we wanted to do this and we're here with the reasons why and we committed

to this and it's going to be okay and so I think that's probably like the the groundwork I think that we were able to lay each year of kind of like how many shows we're going to do what is this going to look like super helpful yeah I think well two things things, I think starting from the beginning sort of with them is really, I feel really fortunate because I've always felt really connected to their career, you know, and I feel like our conversations, like we can talk about it. And I understand what's going on. So that's like just nice. But also, you know, during the years where you don't have any money and, you know, you're just getting by, I mean, they're literally like substitute taught, I think, our first

couple of years. Like, you make 60, at the time. You made like 60 bucks a day. So I have my own, so I'm a nurse practitioner. So we kind of got to go through going back to school when you're 25 and moving somewhere. We moved to Charleston so I could go to school there and then me pursuing my own thing. So I still have my own stuff, which is really nice. Then, you know, life is just kind of a journey, especially with kids. When they come into the picture, I still feel like we're kind of like he was saying, figuring out the touring thing.

like okay this was working for a long time but now we have three kids and now they're at a different stage they're getting into activities and sports and that you know where you kind of I used to be able to go on the weekends a lot more but now I'm like well Wilder has a football game or you know baseball game or something so kind of always evolving with that kind of stuff how do you paint the sorry I'm just going to take over the interview um how do you paint the picture for your boys like being raised in a world where everyone knows their dad how do you how do you protect them from that and humble them in a sense of teaching ambition and teaching working from the ground up and failures and not only success yes it's it's really hard I mean I think and it's I don't have a reference for like what it would be like to not you know be doing this but it's funny you know they they always used to be like who are you that's on TV is it going to be you are you going to be on there you know like they have this expectation of like I'm going to see a billboard you should probably be on that why aren't you on that this that kind of um but so like it's a

it's that's a weird thing to have and then you know when people come up and take pictures and stuff that's another thing I'm always like I'm like was that weird and they're like super weird so I just try to keep it light in that way and then and then I think it's just like regular parenting really I think like trying to you know right now with the sports and stuff it's that's a big thing for me because I'm like it's that's such a great thing but I'm like you have to work hard at whatever it is. I'm constantly telling them, like, successful people, I don't care if you're an artist or it's school or a parent or anything. It's going to be because you're willing to work harder than somebody else at it. And so it's always, I guess I'm trying to like broaden it. So this is

not just about the basketball game. You need to play, buddy. Like I really love it if you want to play basketball and that's awesome, you can work at it. But if it's not that, if it's school, if it's anything that you want to do, it's going to take a lot of effort. So I think trying to grind a little bit of that into them is at least that's where we're at right now it feels like i'm just trying to like keep repeating that kind of thing um and then but but they are i mean my the middle in woods is the most confident like you know future frat kid yeah yeah he's just like he walks in every room like you're welcome you know which is like just not my personality at all and it's just really it's fun but we were we were sitting in the jacuzzi one night and he's like he's like he's like

I'm like, what are you going to do for them? He's like, I'll probably write songs and make millions of dollars. I was like, oh, okay. And then we go into this whole conversation about, he's like, we should build a bridge from the jacuzzi to the pool with a waterfall. I'm thinking, you know, he does this whole, like, really, you know, he's got it figured out. And I'm like, well, I don't have that kind of money. He's like, why?

You know, there's this, he just doesn't. And so then I said, well, if you get successful, you could maybe come back and buy me that bridge. That would be really, really. and for like a split second he was like well maybe and he goes I'm gonna have my own kids then and I'm gonna really need to keep that I think for me yeah five he's just like yeah so that is a challenge I think I think I was talking to one of my buddies

that I played football with is Billy Napier he's a coach of Florida and we were just talking about like just do you remember how we grew up like how like we had you're cutting the grass and you're doing all the things like And when me not be in there, that creates a lot of that sort of, I feel like missing pieces. So I think that's the hardest thing is just trying to go like, okay, why don't you come to the studio with me today? And let's see what this really is. This is not me playing on TV. This is just me working hard.

And let's see how boring it actually is. Maybe give them a little bit of peak of like what the real work is like. There's something beautiful about that unbounded vision that he has. That's kind of what pushes things forward. a lot of ways I do I kind of want to expand on this topic of ambition but one song that just hits among others is money and fame and I think you've used the term toxic ambition before yeah and Mary Eames I want to start with you answering the question because I know I've experienced this with Sean where it's like I have my own thing she has her own thing we

each have ambitions that may be aligned sometimes but may not always be how have you you guys navigated that as a couple because one ambition might feel more urgent or like you know this feeling of like whoa we're we're like trendy right now we got to go out and i can't miss a show and it's like there's sacrifice that happens but i'm curious how that's been for you yeah well one thing i wanted to say too about the other for us i don't feel like i mean i don't feel like bear goes anywhere where it's like oh my gosh i mean maybe occasionally so i feel like our kids have like a pretty normal I mean they go to like public school and just playing sports with their friends whatever so anyways but going back to the toxic ambition thing I think

there was a time I feel like even me with the band probably had like an unhealthy relationship with that in that I probably put some of my own my own ambition for the band on him and I think it took some heartache for us to learn those things about ourselves and how to kind of re-evaluate our own identities and, like, why are we doing this? I think, I mean, I think we have a long, you know, story of kind of going through that. It was probably like 10 years into our marriage. And I feel like there's certain, like, inflection points in a marriage, like 10 years, like some of the, you know, starry-eyedness that you have when you're 21 and get married

is kind of gone and you're, like, actually living life. And you're kind of, you're like in your 30s and all your stuff that you have, really delved into and you haven't had the maturity to dive into is starting to like come to the surface um so i think going sort of going back to identity and then i think with me in the past few years with my job with my job and and his job learning how to like do that together like in time and having timing um i think that when i was younger i was a lot less patient with my own path and now not only do i have to think about sort of their job but my kids and who do i want to be most present for like i don't want to pursue my career um to the detriment of him but also to my

kids so just kind of being slower paced about everything for me wow yeah i think i mean i i would have at that time probably 10 years into our marriage and into the career and all that um i just I mean I came from playing football so it's like there was this you know I approached everything like that very seriously like we watched tape on the shows like I was trying to I was I was like we are going to dominate period there was no and what came with that um you know was just was our whole culture kind of was collapsing around us and we were forgetting what we got into it for and I think I know now and more simply like the best music we make if it's going to be successful like it's it's not just the things that you think making you successful are not necessarily those things like you can work as hard as you want but like actual inspiration where does that come from and like to me i really try to think of the stuff we do now is like you know this is this is my offering to god it's it like it's not it can't be it can't be i think this is going to get to number one i can't think who's the audience that's going to like this and what's the because

when i've done that that actually hasn't worked you know so in a way it's like corrected itself in some ways i think um but i saw i saw so many so many other artists got getting opportunities that i wanted that we weren't getting all that kind of and it just distracts you now now you're like dealing in some business world where it's really not this is like music is really like an eight-year-old game you know what i mean it's a kid's game and and i think for me um getting back to that has helped a ton um but we didn't we were not equipped for it i mean we were not ready for i think back that we we went on tour with taylor swift like around that time and i did not know you wanted to tour at tea yeah yeah it was on the speak now tour we did 83 shows

which is crazy wow i think he did 200 shows though in that year that year yeah oh my gosh yeah so yeah that'll take it tall yeah that way really wreck people because because because there's still that feeling we talk about the own ramp and off ramp of that you know because you go out there i'm not a I'm pretty shy and quiet and really personality-wise. So like the stage thing, it has to be, I have to really amp up for it, you know. So I think it's just, I treat it so much differently now. I know how false that is.

I mean, we say this all the time, like, you know, people aren't made for that sort of adoration, you know, they're just, you're not. And I think to me, understanding that, like, they're liking this music that I feel like was like, is really, I'm a channel for. I'm not the thing that they're, therefore and so serving that is awesome but starting to think you deserve it and where you're

going next that that it is toxic to you know use that term we did uh six I know I've cut you off twice my bad we did six shows and like a 10 day period and still I was like that was not healthy at all it was like a live podcast right and my buddy was this he was a musician he was like yeah it's crazy like you're on stage or you're doing the meet and greets and there's people like myself fan girling and it's like uh you're like on this weird kind of high like euphoria and it's like that always is met with a you know some type of weird adjustment like low and i really felt that where i was like gosh it's so crazy like as much as i realize that this is not healthy like i know this is not the thing of being admired like that you get swept up into it in

one way or another it's like even physically like your adrenaline is pumping in a crazy way but um yeah it's uh i think she's learned i think she has been great with like as we've processed probably the best thing in our marriage like all of our friends would say is like we just talk a ton and because going through that rough patch like 10 years in of us like reassessing kind of everything and getting counseling together and just really kind of like we develop this habit of you know we'll spend we get bed and I we'll talk for an hour you know like it's really we're breaking down all of those reasons so the fact that we're fortunate we didn't have kids then too it's so hard with kids now we get in the bed we're like but when you don't have kids you do have that time to just just got

i think it just got us on the same page about those things so then then then you can problem solve you can go okay it's going to be tough for me you know like i would just little things like i'm i would catch the earliest light home because it's like so you played the night before 10,000 people, and then you're on the 6 a.m. And then you walk in the door, it's like game time with the kids. And you're not ready. I mean, nobody's ready for that. Right.

And that's sort of like, and so just little things of being like, hey, why don't you take the later flight or why don't, if you're coming in super late, why don't you get a hotel and rest? And then come home ready to be dad, you know. So those little things like that, I feel like have made pretty massive, you know, differences. I have so much respect for artists who tour because kind of like Andrew was saying, we've done six shows.

I did two tours that were 50 shows apiece after the Olympics. And that was probably the hardest time in our entire marriage. And I always find it funny how people will see you all go on tour and they're like, oh, you're so lucky. It's like if only you understood the reality of like your world and how you have to build so many boundaries and a whole new system of life, I think it's beautiful and fascinating how people can figure it out so beautifully

but it's so difficult and I think one of the questions I had coming into this is like you're getting ready to release your ninth album you've gone through the waves and ups and downs of like the hardships why do you still tour why do you still create music

like what's your guys's family why these days of continuing in this world? Yeah. I think, I mean, I would probably answer it fairly simply, I think. I've tried, there's numerous things I've tried to walk away from in life, you know, and music is one of them several times. I'll come to her every couple years and be like, you know what, I think I'm done with this. Like, I'm ready to be a contractor or something. But every time that's happened, like we've kind of went through it and what is it. It's like, but I, the, what's weird with me is what drives me in the music. thing is not as much the audience um even back then like when i was trying to be successful it wasn't like um i just was one of those when i've met people i you know i've got a kid who's probably like that just loves attention and all that like it's not really what i love about it it's actually the creation of it and then creating what the show is going to be and then delivering this moment in the right way and all that that's really um i don't know if i could live without doing that in some

form and so i think for me just knowing like okay i'm going to do this because this is this is kind of why i was put here um and then going okay but then you don't have to say yes to everything you know you don't have there's you can do this in a healthy way and the more i've met people um along the way that that show that you can that's been huge to me you know i don't think i thought that it existed i thought you had to sacrifice everything in order to do it and it's just not real it's really not true because you'll run into people that are just like you know I mean to name drop I just I met him one time so it's not a big deal but like on that Taylor 2 I met springsteen and that for me was like one of those like I couldn't talk you know I was like freaking out

but just incredibly humble about the way he approached his family and even me when we were talking just like and I was I was like wait you don't have to be this you know totally self-involved jerk to do this job um you can sort of respect it and be like thankful for the job i think that's probably where we're at now and and and um it's fun to see like other parts of that like become part of the job i like like the leadership part um because i sort of look at the band like a family now and and not just the band but all the people that work for the band and it's like how do you create a culture where that's actually great for their life too um and and so that's a that's a that's a crazy challenge and I like that kind of challenge you know it's like how do we develop

over time habits and ways that they can they can really feel fulfilled can I press in this a little bit yeah because you you mentioned earlier that you still feel like you're trying to make it I'm wondering if that's like is that like a you problem or like a music industry problem you know what I'm saying it's like because I think it's both okay I think I think my making it is always this it's more existential it's like it's you know I'm always thinking of why are humans not wired to pick the best thing they're they're like feel like we're wired to pick the easiest thing and so if you're making art you're thinking of this like you know higher you know art form that you're that you're that you're trying to

participate in and you're hoping that if you do that if you really commit to that it's like this is my offering to god why wouldn't that be successful and I think that's probably why I'm always saying that of like what level of that success am I going to feel like you know is enough and the truth is there isn't one you know it's like there nothing that happens after the creation process is going to live up to that like i don't care if we won you know all kind of grammies and that kind of thing you know what i mean it's just not it will never be enough for me it seems so i feel like i'll have to battle that all the time i'm always trying to like diffuse that idea in my mind of you know the result because when you make a record this first thing you know

the record comes out and then that day you're you got to read all the comments you got to all that stuff is just so ridiculous you know but but it's you still fight it because it's this is your baby you made this thing that's like you feel so attached to so i feel like i'm still struggling with that and that's probably why that like feel like you're still trying to make it um and it's always been i should say that to me the reason for success with with music for me anyway is always been about creative freedom so if you get to a place where you know we can tour but I can't all the ideas I have for the tour we can't afford that's what I mean you know what I mean so it's like I want to make this moment so amazing they're like well that's going to be 19 trucks and that's like

you know whatever it's like so that freedom to me as we've gotten you know older as a band and as I've gotten down the road just being able to take time making a record even that's like immediately a budget thing yeah it's like well what if we went to France for two months and we did this you know whatever So part of that, I think, is, like, having that freedom to make those choices, you know, and spend the time on something that you really care about. Did you guys go to France for two months? We did not, yeah. Still a drink.

Still a drink. Still a drink. But we do. Little League baseball games. Keep getting in the way. Yeah, they're right. Yeah, totally. No, we haven't yet.

But we did, on this record, like, we spent a year and a half on it. And so it was a, it's really like an exercise that we know the money will not come back on that. That's not like a, you know, we know going in that, that, that, we know going in that, that, we care about this more than anyone else will um but we spent a ton of time together like doing all that stuff discussing like why are we doing this what is it and how can we all get on the same page of creating that and get our egos out of the way and just get in a room together and make something beautiful um and so i feel proud of that like we are doing that to the best best we can for sure mariems how is how is your ambition changed over the year you mentioned like this inflection point

was there one was there ever a point where you wanted to pull the plug on the whole thing ever like the antithesis of imposing your superimposing your ambition on there and then how is it matured well it's funny because i see you three guys is very similar and i mean professional athletes musician i'm like i'm a nurse which is great i'm more on like the dorky end of the spectrum like i really want to like read all the research on this one random thing so i don't you know i see people like you guys you know you couldn't have done what you did obviously what you did without having this unbelievable drive inside that starts from when you're a kid um and so oftentimes i feel like with highly driven people you set a goal post you know 10 years out but then by the time you get to that goal post you're the new one is way over there so you don't take the time to be like oh my gosh like i've accomplished this goal you know um so i feel like i always tell that to bear with his stuff. I'm like, hey, dude, that tour was great. Like, here's what you said you wanted to do. You accomplish it. Like, we should celebrate it rather than in his

perception, the goalpost is way over there and then I make it, you know. For me, I feel like part of our dynamic is my ambition is a little, it's just a different thing. Like, as, you know, a person in health care, you're never going to have people cheering and clapping and, you know, all that kind of stuff so it's just it's more of a self um i don't know growth and i get in the mire of like a whole different myriad of things um i don't know if that makes makes sense but um i've luckily with my path i feel like i've been able to push the brakes and then push the gas just based on our family needs so i don't feel like we're both both in these like super rigorous paths whereas like being in a band being athletes like that realistically i think those

paths are extremely rigorous i think it'd be very hard to have two people doing that like if i was building some huge company or something that would that would be a different set of challenges that i don't think that we face i can kind of do mine along slowly do mine alongside and that's fulfilling you know for me i think well i would say too that you like we met in college college, you know, I was a very serious person. So like, I'm not dating this person unless I think maybe we're going to get married. Like there's, and I've got to say, I kind of had a set of, you know, things I was looking for. Wait, strangely enough, thinking about how much of an idiot I was. Like, I still had like this thing of like, I need someone, you know, who is a little higher class than me, who is, who can like walk with me into rooms and who's socially, you know, confident and all those things. But also, will hold me to it, you know, has a way that they, and she is that, for sure, which is incredible. And the other question with that was, you know, but what if it goes bad, you know, because this, this whole thing is a risk. It's just like, and I knew it back then, and I still know it now.

And we joke, I mean, I was just like, okay, let's say, you know, that like tomorrow I feel like a different calling. It's like, we're going to Africa. That's what we're doing. We're going to be missionaries and there's we we sell everything and we go and she and i just could tell i mean you know she has that that thing of like a hundred percent if you feel like that's what we want to do like it was so that's a huge you know superpower i think of freedom that you get from that of like listen we can take some risks and if this means you know the whatever our house has to change or this has to you know i know that um she'll not just embrace that but like enjoy it make most of it you're saying she supports you she supports like risk as a whole or like you know you've never

felt pressured to like keep doing the same because if i feel that pressure it's always i'm feeling it myself i don't flip from her you know so i of course feel like that you know like every person does but just i think i think i've never felt it on her end of like well you should go do more shows because we need money for this or whatever it was never um and i think that's you know that's rare and and so i yeah I feel good about the fact that if tomorrow we, we, I feel a different calling, or I don't feel like I'm supposed to make music anymore, or, you know, whatever it is, that the lifestyle is not why we're doing this. I'm going to try to voice a thought that I've not fully manufactured in my head, but you've mentioned

a couple of things where it's like this, uh, the back and forth of, I love it. And this, I think it goes for parenting, for our careers, all this, where it's like, ah, this is really fulfilling at times and it's working sometimes. And, like, walking down that path of commitment while also getting terrified at that path of, like, shoot, like parenting, you know, it's like a daunting thing when you're walking into it. It's like, but you're excited for it or like, you know, the next album of like, shoot, should I just run, like, can I turn my back on this and do another thing? It's, I feel it every time we push this limit of comfort, you know, it's like, shoot, this is a commitment. I don't know if I'm off for it. Like, I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm worthy.

you know yeah i think there's a i mean most of the things that i've done have i say most i think all of the good things that we've done had that thing you know like starting out i was like this is ambitious in that way of like it's wild like what we're about to do and really scary and i feel like it's funny to me because i feel like parenting i say this sometimes and shows like it it is really talking to your yourself that's what I as much as I'm like trying to give them some you know it's like we had a kid like come uh go to the first day of basketball camp you know and he comes back and he got in trouble for doing something and he's crying he's like I don't want to go back and all this got and then you

immediately are telling him buddy this is going to be fine and you can't run away from challenges like that you know I'm telling him here's what's going to happen the next thing that you get scared of at school that you don't want to do or or when your your friends jump off that cliff into the water you're not going to want to do it you've got to embrace this challenge because the next one won't come unless you do you know and so and then I was like obviously I'm talking to myself more than I am my eight year old you know basketball camp's not that big but but but um so I do I find that of like I'm trying to and then I have to you know then you kind of have to do it because you said it you know that's what I feel and I have these conversations a lot that kind of revolve around this like toxic ambition but obsessiveness that kind of comes with kind of all of our careers and now being parents trying to translate that to your children in a healthy way we talk about a lot like what should the definition of success be

for our children and it scares me sometimes I this is probably not healthy but I refuse to like hang awards from my career around our house because I don't ever want to feel like that's the level of success that they need to reach in order to be successful in mom and dad's eyes. I'm curious living in this world for you guys where you're constantly creating and breaking the next boundary. How do you guys teach your kids what success looks like and ambition? How do you teach them normal? How do you teach them average? When life is very extreme. Yeah. We're similar in that like I don't put any of my like none of the stuff you know that you see like that is around our house I feel like all of our kids will probably one day in their 30s be like my mom's like

really good at gymnastics you know you know that it'll be like a light bubble go out and be like they never really you know I mean they'll eventually know but where you're not sort of putting probably the things that drove all of you guys in sports to success you're trying not to put those things on your kids you know but then it's the question of if you didn't have those things would you have accomplished the things that you did you know so it's tough it's the both and i actually heard i'm not trying to cut you off i had a heard a there was like a really good sermon at our church the other day and i was like talking about sort of how like god loves this um but it's the fully holding of your kids of like i love you regardless you know your life is going to be

messy and you're going to make incredible mistakes but this is like a safe landing spot for you at the same time the world is actually tough and you need to sort of to the degree i think that each child can um you know sort of progress you want to teach them resiliency and the like with the basketball camp thing it's like i could be like okay you don't have to go tomorrow um but is that best for him in the long run so how do i like um nurture his heart and yet say, I think you can do this. I think you can give this another try. And for us, I think with three,

and now they're getting to the age where we really are seeing their personalities, is like each one is different, what they are able to do. Our oldest is like super sensitive, so we have to do a lot of nurturing of the heart. Our second one is full of confidence. You know, he probably,

like things are just going to come more naturally to him. But yeah, I feel like it's the both and, And, you know, that's a good way to look at it. Because even when I think of the word success, it's just too singular to me. It's like, as an artist, I'm like, I'm immediately like, I just don't want to use the word all of a sudden. I'm like, what is that? It's hard for me to answer now. So it is hard to give that to the kids.

You're trying to give them the tools to pursue the things that they love. You know, like somebody, I think somebody told me it's like your job as a parent is give them love and opportunity. And if you could just give them those two things, then. And so I think that obviously is more complicated than that. But to me, that resiliency and drive, they have to get it from my home. You've got to push them. Like that's like, but it's a big deal of the identity. I'm pushing you because I'm constantly telling them boys, I'm like, why do I love you?

You know, and they're like, because I'm your son. That's, that's, and I'm like, in the end, doesn't matter what you do, you got me for that. like if you decide you want to pursue this thing that's going to be on you and I'm going to help you with it and give you the tools to do that now if you tell me you you know love something then we're going to pursue it but other than that like that's not the I'll never love you because you did that thing I think if I can give them that even if they aren't successful and kind of whatever those terms mean you know when we normally think of it um I think that's a better life and I'm constantly telling them too I'm like I'm like buddy look at people that are happy and like Like there's so many people can choose a million different paths that blow me away and they're just incredibly fulfilled and having great lives and families. And my grandmother is from this little town, Butler, Alabama, which is like middle of nowhere. And all of her, you know, offspring became like missionaries and musicians and all these insane things. She's living in this small little town or hole. She's still the one that everybody, all of those people call when something bad happens, you know, or when they need advice.

And there's just, there's something about being wise, you know, and in life that is probably more important than the success part. Certainly, the success makes it easier to do certain things. But I think we're trying to pour that into them, you know, make them gentlemen in every way we can, you know. We always say, I mean, one thing that I think swirls around both of our heads and we heard it somewhere is like, you're not trying to raise the most successful 18-year-old or 22-year-old. you want somebody who is an awesome 50 year old you know what I mean like they've got the tools to navigate through the ups and downs of life and you know for us like and you guys like sports is a tool just for teaching that with the kids um whether you're the best on your team you're in the middle or you're the worst like you know how do you handle the disappointment the success all those things and you know just I feel like For parents, finding all those little tools, whatever, it might be, drama, music, whatever, where it's like, you're taking it out of, like, I'm putting this on you and you have to do this. It's like, okay, let's talk about these situations that you're, like, experiencing, you know.

It's, I think we're in a weird, I mean, it's hard to have this conversation with not even thinking about, like, our cultural, like, time that we're living in. Like, we're all subject to it. I don't care. And we've gone through this sort of, like, so much of anything you talk about has gone through this lens of sort of sort of, sort of. self-discovery that is popular now it's like is that really you know 100 years ago was that really we're talking about this the same way no are we better now no you know that conversation is just different you know like 100 years from now it'll be so i try to think about like what are these like sort of old school principles that are like that make people good people like can we can we put

those in there because honestly we don't know when they're four or 50 like the world you know we talk about whatever you want, AI and all this sounds like they're going to be living in a completely different world. It's moving so fast. So it really, the skills have to be kind of useful in all the areas, I guess. Like timeless skills. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're very similar in how we think about all of that. We probably spend way too much time thinking about it, but it's that it's that foundational idea that you were saying about like why does mommy daddy love you it's because it's just you it's like it just is and my biggest fear with our kids and it's also just a cultural thing there's so much so much expectation put on kids these days

at just a foundational level bro youth sports is like are you guys right here it is so it's like a racket what is happening and I think the reason why I ask the question is to hear you speak as someone that's in the industry and has been in the industry for so long and just here you speak so passionately about creating art and still having that joy I feel like that's what our culture is stripping away from kids these days they don't want them to create and play and enjoy they want them to succeed they want them to win and be the best and coming from people who have in cultural eyes succeeded that expectation that's kind of embedded on children's scares me. And it's always like, how can I take that away from them? Because I know everyone else

outside of our home is like, oh, I'm sure your daughter is going to be a really good gymnast. It's like, no, she'll probably be horrible. She'll probably hate it because of that. But how can, how can we nurture that creative process and passioning kids these days when the world just wants them to be the best by the time they're five? Yeah. It's powerful. I think music is, I mean, really all, I think, love that is out in the world that sounds so fru-frewy. Because I really feel like

the things that we have a song on the new record it's called Evernol. It's like, and it's about these people in our lives that we weren't around that much. And so immediately start talking about teachers or whatever. And we started asking people like, okay, who was that person

in your life? And it's crazy how much people want to talk about it. It actually surprised me. I was like, oh, everybody has a story. They're like, oh, it was Miss whoever. And it was eighth grade and it was the you know they like go right into it because they and you think about the impact those people had whether and they don't know it you know what I mean and that's I think that to me is like the thing it's in our in other forms of art besides music like there wasn't a timeline on

that success and so many of the things that we live by now or have changed cultures completely these people were dead when it happened so it's a good sort of thing to look at and go like man this this that that positivity that you are giving out to the world, whether it be art or whatever you're doing, you know, I think is incredibly powerful and impossible to measure. And so giving them, you know, whatever you can at this age, you know, that sort of idea, though, of like, man, you know, so we'll, one game I'll play with the boys. I'm like, we'll go for vacation on the beach and I'm like running them, when I'm in the stroller in the back riding the bikes, I'm like, how many compliments can we give in the next mile? You know,

And they get, it gets really funny because they're just like, nice shirt, dude. You know, whatever. But they get, you know, they get all jazzed up on them. Like, the people smile is like this is a crazy interaction. I'm like, this is it. This is it, man. This is how you live. This is, you know.

I think, too, I think our kids will be deeply shaped by culture, but way more than that, they'll be shaped by, like, which is scary and awesome, what's in our heart. And I think as, like, what we really value. Like if we're, you know, an unhealthy respecter of persons, like our kids will pick up on that. And so I think one thing that he does really well, he's like such a good storyteller with the voice, which makes sense with music. But he tells them a lot of stories of little, you know, culturally insignificant moments that have been so impactful to him. Like, you know, Mama Nell, you know, his grandmother who is, she's not famous, not how many people know her, but she is just a gem of a huge. human being. So I feel like as we work on our own like hearts and souls and the things that we

believe to be like eternally precious, you know, those moments of kindness or that teacher who you were having a hard year and encouraged you that year, I think our kids will pick up on like, oh, those are like, those are actually the valuable things. Like they'll go through phases where they're like enamored with all the cultural things. But then as they age and mature, those really important things will bubble up to the surface you know so I feel like injecting all those little stories

is it to use acid like to the thing about like how to get them be normal like when I'm doing the story thing we have this game at night like they pick an age you know between zero and 40 or whatever and I have to tell a story about my life from that it forces

like most I mean their favorite story is like dad poop his pants one time whatever it is. And so, like, they, it forces you to give them, like, all the failures. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin-turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar rally.

The ultimate off-road challenge. Learn more at landrover.ca. You know, because it's like, I don't get to decide what story kind of story. They're like, okay, injuries. You say poop your pants on stage? On a date. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

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This has been an enlightening conversation but I love, it's so fun to reflect on how marriage and parenting are parallels to like what what we learn in the Bible or like how God relates to us. It's just like a shadow of it kind of. And you were talking about you view art now as an offering,

which I think is amazing. I love thinking of it like that. And it's like when we talk about success or whether they're going to do gymnastics or music or whatever else, it's like whatever you can do with such excitement and purpose and with this like hands open like offering mentality

that's it dude and I feel like I feel like the luckiest man ever because I feel like I found two of those things football being one took me a couple years to not try to you know force success in that and I had a bunch of whatever I was like stress because I was like I gotta make it work

and as soon as I was like no man this is so fun and oh my gosh I'm so thankful for this. That's when I started mentally unlocking myself and performing better. And then now we get to do this, which it's like every day, this creation is like so fun.

So I just, that's kind of my benchmark of how I'm thinking of like, when you're viewing it as an offering and like there's excellence that gets bundled up into that and like this effort and all this focus, just a beautiful place to be. But I do want to talk about, your latest album coming out called Caves freaking hyped yeah i mean you've had people

and it'll be the first one to do we get a sneak preview or what oh my god i'll send you the record again not a question you're allowed to ask okay tell us about it um yeah man it's it's um i mean i say this every time so it's like but i do think it's the best work we've done um because of all those things we've been talking about just just I feel like the culture of the band is in a really good spot where we all can walk into a room and kind of drop the egos and um even it's just tough in a group but to there's always this battle of like who's responsible for what you know and I think we've lost that and which is awesome it's like you get to the end of the record it's like I don't even know who that idea that was that made it on there and that's really powerful and I think this record

when I listen back to it and my process is that I don't try to think of what we're trying to to do before we do it um because i feel like a lot of times it's like it gets teachy it gets a little like oh then i didn't discover anything while i was making this or i didn't learn anything so why would anybody else you know um so i think that's a little bit how this thing worked and when i listened back to it i was surprised at sort of um how like we've always said we're a band with a chip on our shoulder there was always this like we're from a small town like nobody takes us seriously we always felt like we're the biggest man you never heard of we would say that it's like um there's hardly a chip at all um and that was surprising to me and also really refreshing to me listening to

it like you're saying you know when you take things too seriously maybe you get in your own way at times and i i definitely feel that in our career at times where um we had a point to make and we were so making it so it just it allowed us to be in it more than probably it needed to be and so when i this record that's that's what i hear and feel it's just sort of a thankfulness to do it and um for a freedom in it so it's the best songs collection of songs which makes it easier to work on something when you you know that's probably like telling the kid who's like starting music i'm like this is all about get the best songs you can because because once you revere and respect the songs the that piece then every decision you make can be about what serves that thing well you know

what is my favorite like there's a book called war on art that i love right so good and uh there's a some he's a story about inspiration there he's like what you want to do is set up set up your place to work you know so that when inspiration comes in she doesn't soil her down you know this like that's just a reverence to what you're trying to do and i think um i feel like that because we had those songs around it was like okay we're gonna take as long as it takes to do this if we've got to redo it five times or get a different drummer on this or do this or whatever it was um so i'm really proud of the record and i'm going to try not to care how well it does you know what i mean because of that it just feels like and it's in a nice place because it's not you know out right now so that's a nice

that's a nice place to be like i can actually value it without anybody else you know um you know having their opinion on it yet so silly question very frivolous do you listen to their music that is not a silly question. It's actually really interesting. In our younger years, I would listen to all the iterations of a song. But I realized, this is invariably once the fully recorded mastered song comes out, you're like, man, but the first time I heard it, I really liked it like that. You know, there's like a disappointment because I think of a song is a good song, you kind of connect with it regardless of all the, you know, embellishment around it, you know. So around the hard love, record i was like you know i really i actually don't want you to play me all to iterate like i'll

hear it here and there but i want to have the experience of actually hearing the record and it's pretty much done like a fan would and that was awesome i remember getting the mastered version of the record and just taking a walk around the block and being like oh my god this is amazing you know what i mean i can't wait for fans have that same experience and so i do hear some of the songs but most of the He'll be like, listen to this while I'm like in the bathroom trying to get ready. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's good. There's been, there's, I mean, I've probably written, I don't know, 20 love songs that have to do with her. And there's, there's nothing more defeating about like, like, what do you think about this?

She's like, it's, you know, too good. It's neat. I'm like, could you actually just unload the dishwasher? we finally hit on a couple that she likes which is great but but that's a good it's also a good thing of like you know she knows what I'm capable of just like anybody and and also when I'm trying too hard it's probably the best you know it's like I can tell you're aiming right here I also know my limitations too I'm like you know when I was younger didn't have kids I could know all the cool music that's out and now I'm just like I like I love

like certain things. Like I lean towards the songs that probably nobody likes on the record. Like I like the more mellow, you know, valid type songs. So I don't trust my own feedback. I'm like, you don't need to be listening to me. You've got plenty of professional friends who do this, you know, so don't make any decisions based on my opinion. And then, yeah, just being able to enjoy it myself when it gets closer to finish. I've enjoyed that sort of transition in our life. I got a little territorial when you said this is the best collection of songs just because of the sheer epicness that you put out today.

It's so good. Like, think about that statement. Think about the music they put out. You're becoming a super fan. You've got a calmed out of it. I'm going to ask the rapping class. No, no, wait, hold on. Let's go for a couple more minutes.

Because they never told how they met the story. We jumped right into the deep talk. You can get that and I get the last one. Okay. Can you guys, you mentioned you met in college? What's a full story? Yeah, it was, it was, I'm trying to think the best way to start out. I'll tell it very much. Okay. This is, this is super dorky. And even as like an old person, I'm embarrassed to say it, I really never dated anybody before Bear. And so I remember, and I'm not fan girly like this, but I remember going, he was like leading worship at, like, FCA, which is fellowship with Christian athletes.

And I was like, that guy seems cool. I could probably marry him. I remember having a thought, which was very not like me. Like, it was kind of a God moment. So then he and his buddy Joe had people over to like watch a movie or something with the FCA. And I was like, well, I'm definitely going to that. Nice. And I went and Bear, he is not quite, I mean, like, obviously in his job he's gotten good at, like, talking to people in college.

He was the most painfully quiet person. so it was like crickets so is this when he pooped his pants because i'd be quiet too it wasn't that night so i was like well that was awkward and then didn't think anything much about it until you like asked me on a date so you can take it from there yeah no i just yeah there was something about her and i was listening that i don't talk but i'm like paying attention like i feel like i'm really perceptive in that way um about the kind of girl she was and all that just you know it was really interesting to me and then

we went on a took her to the airport for the first date and so we watched planes take off and talk wait that's adorable yeah right it's like out of a movie and cheap

but yeah we did that and honestly I call my mom after we and I went into all the heavy stuff like just right away it was just like let's just talk about it you know where do you see yourself how do we all that stuff. And I called my mom after. I mean, we both were like, yeah, let's go into the deep waters and talk about the universe.

And then I called my mom that night. I was like, I think I'm a month girl, you know. And so like you do in college, she was a freshman and I was a junior maybe, I think. And so she was very young still. And so that night, she was awesome. Yeah. I think the whole experience, like, freak me out. Because he also

I mean he was just like He went ahead and was like Maybe we'll get married one day And I was like what I thought we were just That night Talking you know Yeah I'm just like let's just get let's go ahead and start figuring this out Yeah

After I got clarity on this Yeah after the other two We got very like sheepish Like kind of lost my mojo or whatever It's agreeable a little bit Which I knew and wasn't So we did break up for a bit He did.

He broke up with me, which was that. But then, that summer, I always say I went home and got my mojo back. And I came back to my sophomore year. And I was like, you know what? Brad Pitt would be lucky to date me. She came in pretty strong. So the middle kid gets it from her. Yeah, right.

And then after that, it was pretty clear we were going to keep going. And, of course, like, she graduated in three years from Furner, which is a tough school. And I was their red shirt. It's so it was five for me. we graduated at the same time. That's awesome. Great timing. Can you give us a review on Bears' college football career?

Okay. What were some of the stats? 40 times? It was pretty awesome to watch. It was fun. I mean, Berman, I don't know what they're like now. They were really good during those few years. That was fun.

I don't remember the stats and stuff. But I think you got like South Carolina player of the year against other schools. Whoa. That was fun. He never talks about it. I mean, I don't really either about that. We got, I mean, I was just four. We were there at the right. There was the winningest class ever at Furman. The four years we were there. And like that kid, Billy, he's a coach, you know, was our quarterback, my best friend. And it was just, yeah, it was a sweet time, but a long time ago.

You were a wide receiver. Yeah. Yeah. And they gave me, they did give me the college player the year that year that year over like Carolina Cumber players and all that, which makes no sense, really. But I just think they weren't very good that year. It's like, well, we can't give them with these guys. They had three wins that year or whatever. But yeah. so it was I mean it was fun I still I'm a massive sports fan still like I mean football and baseball I'm really firm in too so I keep up with them because there's some some guys that I played with their coaches there and stuff like that but now it's the I mean there's probably 10 schools that have like guys that coach different places and all that that I really keep up with more I'm an Alabama fan because of the Bear Bryant thing so kind of have to be not hard to be fans of that I played at the powerhouse of the Cc Vanderbilt University So I'm like, that's funny.

That's funny. The coach at Furman, Bobby Johnson. Oh, my God, right after. You play for Bobby Johnson? Yes. Dude, that guy changed my whole life. Y'all are a lot younger than us. I wondered if you ever played for Bobby Johnson.

I don't know when he, like. For one year. No, not even for a year. Bro, that's crazy to me. Well, then Coach Fowler, who was the year of freshman year, was the head coach of Herman. But I had zero. I was not good in high school.

I went to all the college camps. signing day came and went didn't have an offer i get a call from bobby johnson like in april so this is after like everyone even if you're not an athlete has made their college decision and he said uh he said we have a scholarship spot open i was like how this is way way late he said there was a kid who had gotten uh murdered like someone broke into their house he jumped in front of his special needs little brother and took a bullet he was like the best recruit vandy had ever had rajan bennett's name and because this happened here's your spot so i rolled in bobby Johncho was my coach for two weeks and then he hung it up in like August right before the season started

but he came to visit a couple years later I like I like wrote him a note I was like this changed my life dude and if it wasn't for Vanya I would have met Sean it's like it's crazy to retro actively look back and see that led to this to that but man that's crazy yeah uh you get do you guys know the Zimmerman's uh uh I know of them but not I don't know him person they're Furman yeah yeah oh yeah I forgot that yeah um I want to keep talking. No. Please.

I know. I feel like musicians and athletes are classically friends because I feel like, and I mean, what do I know? I mean, I played high school sports, but I was very average to less than. But I feel like there's just a certain drive, but you have to be a little bit insane to be a professional athlete and a little bit insane to be a professional musician. So it makes for good, you know. I feel like there's a lot of similar challenges and, you know, high moments. minutes too. Last question

before he takes you on another hour long journey. One of our favorite questions to ask couples that come in, especially just who have gone through a long journey together. Married 20 years, three babies, nine need-to-breatheath albums, which is really exciting,

coming in September. What is the best piece of advice you've been given or would give to couples? Hmm. one thing that I say and no newlywed or engaged people believe it or want to hear it but maybe it's just like a nugget because I do feel like we're getting to the age where it's

like we meet more and more couples that are younger than us we've been together a long time been through some stuff is like you know that line and your vowels that's like for better or for worse when you're engaged in newlyweds you're like yeah yeah whatever that means you kind of don't even think about it but there will come a point in life where there is a worse and it's probably worse than you think it is when you're young and it'll be hard and awful and painful at the time but if you can walk through it together with the right support with your community with mentors with counselors whatever there will also come a time where you'll look back and be like man that was the thing that made our relationship so much more beautiful yeah i think i mean

mine's similar to that i don't i don't have a great like wise one line for it but i think it's incredibly hard to be married and for a long time it's um in the only way no you people try to carry it alone i think that's that's what i see the most if i would say it's like there's certain thing people come into a marriage and think, oh, I ought to take care of this part because, you know, that's my role or whatever it is. And I think it's way too heavy to do that. The idea I know, you know, Renee Brown or whatever it talks about, it's like a relationship's never 50, 50. That's ridiculous, you know? And so I do think there's an element to that. Like, there's going to be times when you're going through something so tough that you're not going to go, yeah, I've got 80%

of this. You got 20. Like, sometimes it's backwards. And so I just think, remembering that's massive. Yeah. dang i don't know if standing ovations uh after an interviewer this was incredibly thoughtful uh i love the self-awareness you guys have the intentionality and also with all your music it's reflected in that as well just a big fan uh what was your 40 time in college okay that's the last thing um coming out of high school is a 4 3 Oh, what? 4-3, babe.

What can't this guy does? This doesn't help the superman. We can't do it now. Oh, my gosh, a 4-3. The whole city will know about your 40-time now. Sorry, we shouldn't have put that out there. Dang, when did you put Cleetton last? Let's get this guy out.

What's really funny is Little League Baseball last fall running the bases, definitely. Kid got in my way, and I tried to dodge him. Go down and I put my mom. I'm down, I tore my bicep. Oh, wow, that's a rough one. Oh, it was awful. Did you do the whole, like, surgery thing, long time.

Yeah. Anyway, so she's just trying to say I don't have it anymore. That's what I'm there for. We humble, we humble you guys. Yay. Truly, congratulations. We are so excited for your album. And thank you so much for coming in.

It has been a true honor. Thank you very much. For those listening who like the show, for whatever reason, We're definitely going to like Need a Breeze music if you haven't listened to it. So we'll link it down below. Bear, Mary Reims, thank you so much. This was a treat. Of course, man.

Thank you.