Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 187 | 7 things your family should do differently with money with Rachel Cruze

Episode Date: October 25, 2023

Today we sat down with Two-time New York Times best-selling author, financial expert, podcast host, fellow Nashvillian, wife and mom of three, Rachel Cruze! Rachel is the daughter of Dave Ramsey, the founder and CEO of the company Ramsey Solutions and currently works as a Ramsey Personality and certified financial coach. In this episode, Rachel shares the best approaches to teaching your child about finances and finding contentment, something that she also brings to life in her new Children’s Book, “I’m Glad For What I Have”. This was such a helpful conversation for us and we hope you find it helpful too!  Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew  To Buy Rachel’s New Book “I’m Glad For What I Have” click below: https://www.amazon.com/Im-Glad-What-I-Have/dp/B0C8Z7PY4H/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1DICNOPYJ4H9S&keywords=rachel+cruze+books&qid=1697043536&s=books&sprefix=rachel+cruze+books%2Cstripbooks%2C84&sr=1-1 To Learn more about Rachel Cruze  ▶https://www.ramseysolutions.com/rachel-cruze Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My TikTok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. Today is an awesome conversation. It's with someone who is going to be on our family made live panel. That's right.

But it's Rachel Cruz. And she is one of my new favorite people. Rachel's a bona fide legend. She's Dave Ramsey's daughter, grew up talking about finances and budgeting and how to have financial freedom. And if you want to learn more about Dave Ramsey and Ramsey Solutions and what her family has done and built, they have so many helpful tools if you're looking to get on a budget, get out of debt, all these things. But Rachel herself has quite the resume. She's written now four books. This is her fourth, her newest book.

It's called I'm Glad for What I Have. It's her first kid's book. And it's all about being content. But she's also written two New York Times bestsellers. One is smart money, smart kids. another is love your life not theirs um her third book is know yourself know your money and i thought the conversation was just really great it was insightful it was helpful it was practical it was funny yeah we laughed so nice she also has two podcasts make sure you check them out the rachel cruise show

and smart money happy hour but she is awesome she had so much wisdom to share and just like practical things that you can implement within your family to help with kids with your man marriage, with finances, with everything. Yeah, we've done a couple episodes on money now. We did one with Greg and Allison Balmer about generosity. Stephen Linda Zanako, we talked about money. But this was just a really good, well-balanced conversation, and I hope you learned something yourself for those listening.

And if you want to learn more about Rachel, find her new book, and see everything she's up to. We'll link her information down below. And Rachel, thank you for the time. Thank you for coming in. It's so good to be connected. I feel like it's been years in the making. I know.

And without further ado, we bring you Rachel Cruz. Rachel, I feel like it's been a long time coming. I know. Oh, it's like a T. Swift song right there. Is that? It's a long time coming. I was like, is that? Is that a lyric or is that?

Yeah, it's a lyric. It's how she opens her heirs to her. Wow. It's okay. We won't go down that road. But yes, it has been. I feel like, yes, I know. And we have like mutual friends.

So many in Nashville. So, yeah. I know, thanks for having me. Yes. We've just been cutting it up for the last 20 minutes. I think we could keep going. I know. But we need stuff to talk about.

That's right. Congratulations, by the way. Newest book. Thank you. I'm glad for what I have. Yes. Comes out in November. I know, yes.

November 7th is more. I just want to say, I'm so excited for this book. Thank you. Our daughter turns four in two weeks. And she, no joke, has all of a sudden been talking about money. Yes. And she's like, Mommy, can I buy this? I have enough money.

And I'm like, you don't have any, but it's okay. We should talk about this. Yeah. Uh-huh. And we literally had the conversation the other day of like, should we start doing some sort of, like system yes i know i know yeah well that's i mean my kids they are yeah they're uh eight six and actually four today yep that's we're recording this podcast happy birthday yes fourth birthday today um

so he's yeah right close to your daughter and um but it was so funny because yes because the four-year-old was the one last year at three years old made a comment of like just amazon it's what he said just amazon it and i was like oh my gosh i've created him off so i'm like i can't believe this and it was that moment and i was like that and then my middle daughter who I dedicated the book to, she is my, she's my little spender, she's six, but she will own the stuff and the clothes, I mean, already at six and she's just like, oh, mom, can we please? And I get it, because that's me. I'm a natural spender. So I'm like, I totally understand it. And I feel her so much. And then my older is like the saver, the responsible one, you know. Okay. So all that to say,

the book, this book, it leans more on contentment. But I'm like, I just wanted, especially my middle daughter, because I dedicated it to her where I was like, I want her to know, like, stuff is not bad. You can have some great stuff in life, but your stuff cannot own you. And if you get in this rabbit hole or this, this, you know, hamster wheel of believing the newness of stuff is going to just keep me happy. You're going to run and run and run forever and get literally nowhere. And you're going to be so discouraged and you're going to be out of money. It's not going to be a good plan. Because I feel like that.

That's kind of my tendency. So the contentment side of it, I really, I think is huge. And then the tactical side, like what you're saying of how to start implementing and teaching them actual. money principles is so important too. But this book, yeah, it's more of the heart around the stuff that we have and what really makes us happy. Our daughter sounds like your middle daughter. Okay. Because her Mimi, her grandma, my mom. And you. This is my little spender, by the way. Okay, okay. Are you the saver that? Do you naturally, are you more of a saver? Oh, no. Are you both spenders?

Ander likes to say he's a minimalist. But the amount of Amazon boxes that come with some sort of tech that is for work always yes it's always for work and I'm like it's an airplane simulator how about for work we're both spinners but our daughter gets something new probably every other day yes and I'm always and she'll be like what do you have for me today I'm like okay this is dangerous this is really dangerous I know I know that feeling I'm curious what is your and your family's philosophy or psychology with money like how do you view it you mentioned It's not bad to have stuff, but don't let your stuff own you. Can you expand more on that?

Because I think that's so crucial. Yeah, I think money, it's a really interesting subject in life because I feel like money's the one thing that has a number to it. And it's like, we could talk about how great appearance we are. And it's like, but there's not like a number to that. Or you could be like, gosh, marriage, it's a hard season right now. But there's not like a number to that. But your money has a number.

And what's happened is I think as a society, as our culture, we've latched on to that number, whether it's your salary, whether it's your net worth, even your debt level. A lot of people, that's the shameful, like the side that people feel a lot of stress over is the debt side, that number. But there's numbers everywhere. And so these numbers end up defining us. And so what I really, my encouragement to people always is to break that. And like, those numbers cannot define who you are. So then what does that leave money? Well, money is a tool. It's not our identity. And our net worth has become our self-worth. And we have defined so much of who we are by what we have in our numbers in our bank account and also our stuff that we've accumulated.

So the biggest perspective that I hope my kids here and as I talk about money a lot in life is that it's a tool. It's not good. It's not bad. But when you put it in the hands of a person, that's going to determine whether you use it for good or use it for bad. And so who we are is so huge in this process because, you know, I think money also magnifies who we are.

And that's why I teach people all the time to be giving regardless of where you are financially. even if you're getting out of debt or you're saving up for an emergency fund, wherever you are you need to be giving because that is part of your character and who you are. And if you start to build wealth, that's what's magnified. So money kind of gets a bad rap because I think people reverse it and think it's the money. That's the issue. But it's really the person. Wow.

That's the issue. Wow. We just had the opportunity to go down to Tijuana and build a house for a family, which I'm super glad my parents kind of instilled that discipline in us. and I was talking to a couple of people down there who made their first trip and they're talking about this impulse they had to say, no, I don't want to go do this or give towards this cause because I don't have this number in my bank account yet. And then they had this revelation of, you know, when you see someone who has nothing, that if I'm not giving now, I probably won't be giving when I do have that number. You know what I'm saying? And it's a practice. Yes. And

I don't know if it gets easier. Does it get easier? I'm going to say it doesn't because I do think it's more of a heart issue. I really do because here's the thing. The lifestyle creep is real too, right? If you make 10 grand more a year, suddenly that's going to be tied up in something. And then you just and it keeps moving. That finish line doesn't stop.

It keeps moving. So if you don't keep these habits and practice regardless of what you're making, it's very hard. Not saying that it can't be done. It definitely can. But I think people are under the illusion. If I just had more money, I would give.

And again, I think it's more of a hard issue than a math issue. That's so good. I always love the example. Someone said this to me the other day. They were looking at graduating houses so that they were moving into a larger house. Oh, yeah. And they're like, I'm going to have so much extra space. And I was like, what's funny is you won't in a year.

You'll fill it. Absolutely. And it's just like, that's life. Yes. Like we've lived in apartments before, and it was plenty of space. We move into a house and there's so much extra until there's not. Yep. And you just like keep filling the,

gap, which is kind of terrifying. So unless you break the habit, that's right. And it's the same way with money, right? You think if I just had this much more, I'm like, gosh, of course I would. But you're like, no, over time, your life just keeps moving on. It does. Unless you're intentional with it, right?

Unless you're like, this closet gets nothing. Just to say that we have nothing in it, right? But yeah, it's hard. And it's the human nature, right? And I think we kind of have to fight against that, but it's revealing. So I love having a children's book that's rooted in being content. Yeah. Because being content is achievable for everybody, you know what I'm saying, no matter what your situation or a station in life is.

But it's so hard to fight that current of desire that we all have or like that overwhelming want or, I don't know, jealousy or envy. Like when you see the new backpack your peers have or the new car, it's like the same thing. It never changes. It's like new sneakers, new backpacks, new toy, new house. It's like, wow. Okay. How much do we actually change? But being content is the one place you can kind of plant your flag and say, no, this is good. And yeah, you can get a new house, but are you content through it all? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's a practice for sure. I'm curious. Something that I read

was you started speaking at the age of 16. Yeah. About finances. So that's, yeah, that's generous, sort of. I'll tell you the real story. No, I would try. So this was again back in, 2003-ish, you know. And my dad at the time was doing these big like arena events throughout the country. So I would go and do like a kids quote unquote

kids pitch of here's how it's kind of what we're talking about today. How to teach your kids about money. And we had like a kids product set. So I would talk about that and all yeah. So it was like a five to ten minute little But it's still really impressive. Well so I still did. Yeah. I mean

I still did it. And every Saturday I'm like I would travel and like it throughout high school I'm like I'm where I stayed for homecoming there were like a few events I was like I'll stay but I loved it I was like I enjoyed it so much I loved being with my dad and then I loved public speaking which was so bizarre because that's not very normal so I kind of just tucks that away so to give like a foundational understanding at 16 what knowledge language did you have around finances that your dad had instilled in you or taught you that you were teaching other people or like what would you want your 16 year old to note by the time they're 16 years yes so I would say uh there's like the the basics around money and so uh and the basic basics are like give save

spend and so what does that look like in each of those categories give we can go so many different directions whether with your time you know it can be a trip it can be with your money like you a whole bubble saving can get a little bit more complicated because as kids they could just save for a toy that they want in three weeks right and it's like a little bit of that delayed gratification but learning that but as adults we're learning to save up for an emergency fund to have money just sitting there in case something happens we're learning to save for the future to invest which includes retirement investing kids caught I mean you can go down all those lanes so it can that kind of starts to splinter out and so at 16 I would say I could I could probably give you like a very high

level of some of that, not deep dive at 16. And then the spend aspect of understanding like purchases, quality, quantity, you know, those kind of things. So those are the tactical side. So at 16, again, it was more talking about my story. How did my parents teach me about money and learning, you know, how to work for it, commission versus allowance, you know, those kind of things. So that's what I was, that's what I was talking about. But I remember going to college. I went to the University of Tennessee. And I do remember people asking questions or talking about money, whether it was student loans, signing up for credit cards. Because when I was in school, you could still sign up for credit cards on campus. They've banned it that now.

I was going to say, that is, but it was like free t-shirts and, oh, oh, yeah, for like a free pizza and stuff. Yeah. Crazy. So it was like you. Cripling debt for a free pizza. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was everywhere for an 18-year-old. And so, yeah, and then actually, I think they changed the law. I think when I was at school, because at UT, if you're familiar with that campus, there's an area called the strip and it's right outside by the stadium. Yeah. So people would then piled there because it wasn't technically on campus. But I remember people, you know, my own peers, yeah, it was very normal to do that. And I just remember thinking, I don't know a ton, but I know not to do that.

Like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to sign up for that credit card. But that's kind of what opened my eyes. Like, okay, there's some like basic knowledge and the heart around money that my generation probably needs to know. What habits do you instill with your kids? Do you have routines or practices? Do you do allowances?

Wait, you said allowances or commission? Yeah, so we do commission, not allowance. Okay, talk to me. This is how I grew up, so we kind of implemented this. So instead of just like handing your kids money, I'm sold already. They have to do something for it. So like, that's how I grew up. Like, I was never handed money.

When we were 16, we got our own checking account, and mom and dad did give us an amount of money every month. And we were in charge of clothes, going to movies, Gat, everything was in that amount. Until then, you had to do stuff. They did that at 16. At 16, they did, yes. Yep. Is that the right age? Is that what you're doing?

For the checking count, probably, maybe even, I mean, it's like a student checking account. But yeah, but I had to, yeah, y'all, as the spender, I bounce three checks. Because you still wrote checks then, so like I bounced three checks. Are you read this? At Hollister. Back when I was like a junior in high school, shopping at Hollister, wrote bad checks to Hollister. yeah so that was a good lesson though but I'm like I'm glad to learn that at 16 yeah versus 23 or whenever you're out of the house so so yeah 16 I think is a good age because you're driving at

that point but to have a debit card and to have to keep track of your account which again my world when we were kid it was quicken on your family computer you know now it's apps and all of that which is great but oh yeah I would and what's scary not scary what's different today is money is just not visible yes I mean even you're even cards now people with your phone you know or you're buying online and so for my kids I want them to tangibly see cash I want them to tangibly see a car like I want them to see an action happening that requires a purchase because now it can just be two taps on your phone and yeah your pizza is delivered you know yeah which is convenient and great but for kids sake I'm like just Amazon

if there's I know that's so bad it was I will say I don't know if this is a good thing to acknowledge or a bad thing but I've already taught my daughter how to pay with a credit card oh yeah so like at the grocery store really oh does she like put the like put it in the machine and stuff but she she knows that we can't leave without doing it okay yes that you have to have a form of payment because she'll like try to eat something I'm like baby we can't do that until we pay for it oh funny yes and so she gets the credit card out and she knows how to put it in like see they're feeling that or bad might be on the red show no yeah I feel like we right I can't applaud the credit card to keep on brand yeah but the

idea that she's seeing money I think it's great she's right on the cusp of i feel like needing to know about that we were down in mexico and they had this like mart of different things and she was like daddy can i have money to buy that yeah i was like i don't have money do you have money she was like no i don't have money can you give me some i was like oh geez all right this is this is time but we have the conversation i was like we could find some stuff for you to do yeah to earn it and again it's very age appropriate too right i'm like you know my eight-year-old can do something way different my now four-year-old

so yeah and I have the trust level obviously is very different but yeah I mean small little things of like we're not going to just like leave a mess so let's you know and again it's very small age appropriate stuff but just to start to ingrain that money comes from work

we have to do something and I will tell my kids like I'm going to work so we can make money so that we can go on a fun fall break trip or like whatever you know to eat all the stuff that we do is because we have to do something else in order to earn it. We were watching one of your past shows about growing up broke you did really great research by the way we know everything i mean it's

unbelievable i was like i'm very impressed y'all are great appreciate that don't give us too much credit but uh you talked about growing up broke okay and i'm curious from then like your early years growing up broke to now what has changed in your relationship to money but what's also stayed the same through that i imagine there's been a wide range that's good yes um Yeah, so mom and dad filed bankruptcy the year I was born. So I was born in April. They filed in September of that year. So they had my sister who was two and then a newborn baby.

They went through all of that. So, of course, I don't remember that initial moment. But the years to come climbing out of that hole, I mean, all through elementary school, I would say, I mean, it took a good 10 years or so for them to get some level of grounding and movement. And I credit mom and dad a lot, too. kept everything pretty low key so even as things began to grow we didn't really know i mean even in high school i'm like i i had no clue um because they were pretty yeah it just wasn't um elaborate if that makes sense so as i got older went to college and stuff i started i started seeing

my parents spend more and all this i'm like y'all what is it going on you know i was like oh my gosh like Where was I? And high school, Rachel, would have loved this. And so in that, watching them in a totally different season of life than me handle a level, I'd say a level of wealth, but do it in such a way that is still so generous, understanding that the stuff that they have does not own them. From a real standpoint, I mean, they do a really good job at not. letting it define them and seeing their consistency through it all and the big principles stay the same so so as I'm watching them live that out gives me I would say a level of security and hope that I'm like okay as I'm doing this life starting out you

know only through 35 I'm like even as we as our unit our family unit the cruises start to win in life financially X Y and Z I'm like okay I can still have these over overarching principles of how money works can still stay consistent regardless of what money is in your account and those principles i think still are yeah that um i mean scripture says the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil and it's the love of it it's not money itself it's the love of it though and so again it's that it's that perspective that is so huge that i'm like it cannot be the thing that defines us and winston i say too we're like we snap our fingers and everything's hit the fan and we got to go live in an apartment and have our three kids and we have

move out of national you know like if something that happens how are we and I just feel like we've done the work as a family that I'm like you know you can never say I'm sure it would be hard but I'm like but like we're good like we are who we are and the stuff is fun but it's not going to be the thing that is us so I don't know if that answers your question exactly but I think there's there's a heart there that I think regardless of where you are in life can still stay consistent but you have to really keep a pulse on it too and I think I think family is here huge people around you, friends who you hang out. You know, I think there's a level two of similar values of the people that are closest

in your life that kind of keep that easy. Yeah. If that makes sense. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply.

Learn more at MX.com.ca slash Yanex. It was kind of similar to what you were talking about earlier, but it's so important. And when you understand that it's two different things, like who you are and what you have, it really is kind of empowering because it puts the ownership on, hey, no matter how much or how little I have, I can still be this type of person. Yes, that's right. That is, I mean, it's profound where it's, you know, you have complete security in a way, knowing that your worth is not in your number. because you could have $0, but still be this generous person.

I don't know. You get to marinate on that a long time. Yes, because the truth is, too, I'm like, I've met wealthy people who are jerks and are gross. And you're like, I kind of want to take a shower after hanging out with them because they're just, like, kind of slant. They're nasty. But I've met some of the most generous people

and with what they've chosen to do for their family, for others. It literally, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And then I've met people who are broke, living paycheck to paycheck that are, a jerk, and that are not nice. Yep. And then you've met some of the kindest, most wonderful people

and they're living paycheck to paycheck, right? So I'm like, you can have them in any bucket. But to your point, I'm like, it's the person that decides that. And so spiritual side, therapy side, all that's really good in life to have grounded. We've had that conversation a lot. We asked ourselves that exact question that you said earlier, probably monthly, which is like if we lost everything today,

Yep. Would we be good? Yep. And it's kind of like that repried, like making sure our priorities are still in the right place. Yes. And we still answer, yes, but we have that conversation a lot, similar to what you're talking about, of our upbringings are different than our children's upbringings. Yes. We live in Nashville. Yep.

We don't live in Des Moines, Iowa or Indianapolis. Our children's lifestyles as kids is different than ours. Yes. I still remember going shopping with my mom, her back-to-school shopping. every year and we had this little ritual where we could go through the store and I could kind of collect everything that I saw my eye like that I liked yes and I could fill a basket but then we'd put it on layaway yes do you remember layaway oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah and my mom would always say okay we're going to put it on layaway we're going to spend two weeks we're going to think about our

favorite items wow and when we go back we can get three of our favorite items for school so good And it's like how do you implement that now in a different lifestyle, a blessed lifestyle that we're very fortunate to have, without just being like, okay, fine, I'll buy you new toy since it broke. Yes, yes, yes. And it's terrifying. Yep. Because you don't want your kids to be entitled. I'm curious how you're managing that with your girls who are spenders or your little boy. It's just how do you manage living in a lifestyle where you can?

but I know but you don't or should or I don't know what do y'all do I was like hey we've got three and two year olds okay no I Winston and I we've talked a lot about this because yeah I think Winston I grew up very I mean it was not a lavish yeah it wasn't a lavish lifestyle growing up well taken care of loved all the things but yes um so we've always said the pattern that we want to see that we want our kids to see day to day is the pattern that's going to set them up for life. So there's going to be exclusions to that. There's going to be a great vacation where they go stay at a great hotel.

They have no idea how great it is, but mom and dad do. Or there's going to be like a great new minivan that I'm like, I'm so excited about this, but they draw a sharpie on it. Like they, you know, so there's exceptions in life that we're comfortable with, Winston I are because we're like we want to enjoy our life and our hard work and all the things and all that. But what is the pattern more on a day-to-day consistent level? because that's what's going to stay with them the most.

And so if our pattern is grandness all the time, that's going to be their pattern. So we do limit things. We, I mean, and it's small things too where I'm like, even the convenience of like just grabbing food out, you know, and we'll do that sometimes. But like, I'm like, no, I want, like, on a consistent basis, I want to be home with our kids.

I want them to see us like we're going to be as a family. Like there's these patterns that we want to go into place. that they know that this is their norm. That's their norm. Their norm isn't, you know, X, Y, and Z. So, and again,

and I think people can pick in shoes. You know, you could go down, like the kid's birthday party route. You could go down, you know, you can pick all these places in life. Yeah.

But we've just said on our consistent life pattern day to day, it's going to be as low maintenance, I guess you could say, as possible, but we'll do some fun things. I think that's great. My grandpa used to say,

a treat's not a treat if you have it every day. Mm-hmm. And I think that's just like truth to that. Yes. You can have a good time. Yep, that's right. Make it, you know, something you anticipate and can enjoy it.

Yeah, and I would say this too. Kids, I mean, and you all know this being parents, but I'm like they pick up. I always say more's cloth and tot. Like, they are watching me. So when Charles says just Amazon it, he didn't say that because his sister was saying. He was saying that because I say that all the time. Like, we'll just Amazon and we'll just Amazon it.

Because there's a level of convenience. Like you're saying if it breaks, like, you know, we can replace it. Because we can. Yeah, financially, we are able to do that. but after a while you're like oh no oh no no no so that's been our big talk probably in the last year or two has been okay what's like our what's our go-to pattern in life and if the toy breaks now like they know charles ripped up all like half of his books and his room i like went up and i'm like oh my gosh and he said which i was kind of proud i was like okay good he was like they cost

money i was like they do cost money bud like oh my gosh and their books like i feel like that's like like sacred things in life you just ripped all these up which is really good that this book has We were just talking about the card stock on this. Oh, yeah, the real thing. Yeah, yeah, the thick pages. Harder to rip. The harder to rip. Yeah.

I will say my cop out these days, because I've been trying to like practice this more intentionally with our kids, but my daughter knows her birthday is coming up. And so she'll ask for things all the time. I'm like, ask for it for your birthday. Yes. And then I'm like, we'll never talk about this again. Keep moving, keep moving. No, it's, yeah, and it is.

It's a different. world that they're growing up in from that standpoint, but also anyone listening, regardless of where you are financially. If you're listening to this, like, it's a different world. Like, it is a different world in 2023 than it was than when we grew up. So even that has its own challenges too. You mentioned that you are more naturally a spender. Yes. How can someone who isn't a savior learn how to form healthy habits financially? How have you done it? Yes. so I mean there's like a there's a point with I think any level of being an adult right so whether it's your work your money anything there's a point that you have to be like okay I have to like I have to be the adult here there's a level of maturity that has to occur and there's just a truth that if you spend everything you make you're going to live paycheck to paycheck you're more likely to go deeper and deeper in debt you're going to be that's the financial side and then the emotional side you're going to be stressed you lose sleep a marital satisfaction goes down when money stresses in the picture. I mean, like, there's a lot that

occurs when that is the life. And I know a lot of people right now, it's really hard right now. I mean, there's a lot of things going on in our world right now that's really difficult. So I totally acknowledge that. But I do find when you have margin, there's a level of peace there. But you have. There is a level of security that is there that you're like, okay, we're good. So for me, I fight for that where I'm like, I want to be able to like feel good at night. A women's number one financial fear is the lack of security. So a lot of women would say their number one fear is if something happens, are we going to be okay? And I have that, even as a spender, I still have that in me where I'm like, I just want to make sure everything,

like, we're going to be okay. So I have that side. And then on a tactical, practical, practical side, the budget, it helps me a lot. Once I do a budget every month. And we have a clothing line item in the budget so I can, you know, shop and enjoy. And I don't have to feel guilty about it or second guess and there it is and then once it's done I'm like okay we're good but we did you know kids fall close this this month in October and I was like okay I can go you know old navy dot com or get wherever I was just like grabbing a bunch of stuff and I'm like okay yeah go to checkout perfect we're good like that's what we need and that's what we have and it's perfect so there's a level of control and permission to spend that I have when it comes to a budget but

people hate the B word they always feel like oh my gosh they feel like it's constraining or Or, you know, that means you can't, like, live a great fun life. But it's just giving your income intentionality, right? It's just giving your income a name. And you, as the adult, get to decide that, right? No one's dictating what is in your budget to you. You get to decide that as an adult. And so that permission to spend knowing that I'm spending, but there's freedom in it because we planned it.

I know what's going on. It's great. The same with vacation for us. If we go on vacation, I'm like, even as a spender, I'm like, I want to know what we're going to spend on this trip because I want to able to enjoy the guacamoleon chips by the pool like I want to be able to like enjoy my life and not think like oh god are we spending too is this is okay that that second guessing is really hard so yeah being able to enjoy it for me and I comedically get an argument every time we talk about a budget because Andrew will calculate a budget monthly but his budget is always just like

the living expenses oh yes yes period and I'm like okay okay we're gonna have to add a little bit to that where's the fun where's the fun in it what's the title what's the title of book oh there we go I know it's it's it's a practice to kind of get into like the rhythm but once you have it set in like your main big categories yeah it's pretty consistent month to month for the most part but it uh yeah it allows me to have some some freedom I will say who was the couple we interviewed that did the giving budgets those one of my favorite things that I've taken away. Stephen Linda? Maybe.

But they basically like, they set their income. Yeah. Even if it changes every year. They have like a cat salary. Yes. But they change their giving budgets every year in their individual to the husband and wife. Oh, that's cool. They basically said there's no asking. We just get to be generous whenever we feel like it. Yes. And I think that sounds so fun. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I know. because even for us, I'm like, Winston and I were so different. Winston is such a planner. He, like, loves Excel.

He like, I mean, he's just, and it's funny because I teach about money and he's more of like the nerd when it comes to everything. And for us, he like, are giving. He's like, all right, here, here, here, here's our monthly, like, you know, here. I'm like, that's great. But also, I hear about stuff in life that I'm like, we can, like, yes. So we have a sponsor. So we have our planned giving and then we have spontaneous giving.

Love that. And that spontaneous giving, I'm like, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was funny. We went to a dinner and they like explained, you know, it was, it was foster care stuff, you know, and I was like, oh my gosh. And they were like, just take a bathroom break. If you, you know, talk to your spouse, Winston and he was like, write your number down. And I was like, I was like, just cash out my 401k. I was like, just give it all. Just give it all. You know, we laugh because he was like, oh, babe. Not that he's not a generous person, but he's just like, you know, way more methodical. He wants to research, make sure everything is actually legitimate. He wants to stay. I mean, he does, which is great. I'm like, there is a level and more people of faith. And so, like, like we do see our stuff as God. It's like we are managing all of this for him. So, and Winston does. He's like, this is, we're not going to just like freely give to something.

If we don't know, it's legitimately being used well. I'm like, I hear that. But also there's things that come up that I'm like, I just want to. I'm the impulsive of giver. Yes. I'm like, yes. Here you go. Totally.

Totally. Yeah. Give me your Venmo. Yeah. Yeah. I will say, I don't know if it was, I forgive it was you going through your specific budget or doing like a budget audit. but you do such a good job at like going line by line.

I was watching something where you were like, hey, you could probably decrease this or this is a necessity. So that has to stay the same. But someone was trying to, you know, lock in their budget. You did a great job with that. Yes. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. We do a lot of these kind of looking over budgets because everyone's situation is so different. And especially people have financial goals because what I find is so many people, they don't have the margin. They don't get to the end of the month and have like a surplus to be able to use. So it is going through. And it's hard, right? It is hard when you're like, okay, if I'm choosing to have a season to save up three months of expenses

or if I'm trying to get out of debt. Like if it's these big goals, sacrificed usually almost always, unless you're like winning the lottery is required. And so that's a hard thing. And, you know, for people listening or watching, I'm like, for a lot of people, that's what they're experiencing. But they're like, I have to cut something that I'm not used to cutting and actually decreasing lifestyle, which is kind of what we were talking about on the other end of the spectrum is when you have to go down in lifestyle. that that's a level of contentment you have to have. That's the power of contentment that plays in,

that you're like, yep, we can decrease that. And we're going to be okay. And we're going to be okay. And for a season, right? Because I don't want people to live like that forever, ever. Right. It's part of getting out of debt is to enjoy your income. And so, but for a season, it's hard.

But what's crazy is people that do it and they go on a journey. It takes on average 18 to 24 months to get completely out of debt for the average person that's doing it. And so for two years of living, not going out to eat as much, not doing the spontaneous Amazon purchases, not going on vacation, not doing these things. It's amazing. People coming out are like,

we don't need all that. Like, we don't even want to bring it back in because we're fine. You know, so like it's such an interesting paradox. So it's a cool thing to watch. So to help people kind of walk through that

with their numbers. Yeah, I love to do that. I know Ramsey has a million different products and tools that people can look into. For those listening, we'll link that down below. But you guys have some amazing,

oh, thank you. you know things that people can can use to help them get out of a pinch or yeah work towards financial goals but i think it was abraham lincoln said the discipline is choosing what you want most over what you want now and i just love that of like yeah the sacrifice is worth it because i you know ultimately i'll get what i want most that's right um yeah so good i think between you and your husband i would be curious what's the i always get nervous asking this question what's the biggest point of contention around finances um i would not say spark oh no it's great oh yeah he actually probably have way more way more good stuff to say than i would um i

would say his uh do i'll do the anagram we have yes we always forget our numbers okay okay yeah never mind then this one i want to do that um so yeah so yeah so Winston is more of a he's more of a scarcity mindset, more hold and think and weight, patience, let's watch it play out, let's, you know, that's more his where I'm like, I'm our pre-marital counselor was like, Rachel's very urgent. Like, this is going to be an issue in life and so we use that all the time. I'm like, I'm like, I'm urgent. I'm like, oh yeah, something. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's great. Or get it. Like, I just in, people would say impulsive. I like urgent better. I like urgent a lot.

So, yeah, it's, and it's very real. And so when I am urgent and I want to buy something, oh, it comes up. And it's funny, because even if it's in the budget, quote, unquote, you're fine. But he'll be like, okay, so is that. And he's not like overly questioning, but it's like, okay, do we have to do that to date? Like, really? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll just, you know, da, da, da, da. And he's like, oh, my gosh, Rachel.

So it's more of the method at which I handle money or spend money. Okay. And the method at which he handles and spends money that I, it's so opposite. it's so opposite so it's more of a annoyance of like oh my gosh then like a

all out fight because really for the most part financially we're pretty like on the same page we have a goal we're doing a pool in our yacht like we have we have things we're working towards and we've really worked as a team but the way we go about it is so different and so that's a natural like

oh man what do you think is the like most crucial financial conversation couples are missing like early on oh gosh oh i think the biggest one it's the one i get the most hate for so it is what it is uh is seeing yourself as a team and being one there's so many couples that live separately financially um and i would argue in studies now have proven it which i love having a scientific study to back up what i feel like is right is is the unity the unity peace and marriage is huge. It's huge. And for a lot of people, they live on separate tracks. And there's something about money. Because again, it's not about the money. Yeah. It's about so much. So if you're a couple that

is, you have your own goals. And granted, you're going to have your own individual stuff. I get that. But from a tactical standpoint, sharing a checking account, I mean, like you're working towards the same goal together. You guys as a team, you get there so much faster financially. You win so much faster financially and it does something to your marriage when you let go of something like money and you say yep what what's mine is yours what yours is mine and we are in this life together we are locking arms full-fledged here I am here you are we are all in it's one it's it changes the dynamic and I say that too because we have so many people that do debt-free screams on the Ramsey show meaning they've gotten out of debt and they come they do a big like debt-free scream um on our show and I mean

nine out of ten of them are like our marriage is better And we're like, we didn't teach a marriage class. You went through like a money process. But they, for the first time, we're on the same page. And it's a beautiful thing. Are you talking about pre-nups? Are you talking about pre-nups? Not necessarily.

We can talk about rent. No, I'm shared checking account. Okay, okay. So like when your income comes in in the month. Gotcha. That you guys see it as one. Yeah. It's one pot.

We're all working out of the same thing. For some couples, he has his income. She has her income. They split the house bills. Like she pays for X, Y, Z, he pays for X, Y, and Z, and they live separately financially. Do you mind? What's your take on pre-nups?

Pre-nups? I'm not overly angry with. I wouldn't say, I'd say for majority of people, they're unnecessary. If there is an equal, if there's an unequal amount of wealth going into a marriage, I think that they're okay. I think that's okay, just to say. And what we have found is honestly, it's not really the person you're marrying that you're protecting yourself from it's usually like their family and other people that come out of the

woodworks that if something were to happen everyone else tries to grab so so again if there's an unequal amount of uh wealth coming into a marriage i would be i would be okay with it but if it's some guy sorry i don't know why i'm picking on a guy he's like my truck i want my truck in the pre-nop i'm like dude it's your no like no yeah but that or we've seen within family business if someone owns stock in a family business they want to protect that keep that within the family i get that you know um i could be honest though Winston we didn't he didn't sign a pre-up none of our yeah within the ramsies no one has signed a prenap to marry into the ramses but i see how people do and i'm not like overly mad about it well we did we actually did an episode on this um and it was because of the the psychological

side effect of saying we're all in i think that when that's the end goal when that's like how the story ends it back fills everything else like yeah it's like okay well hey we have to and i i think there's probably situations where prenups are yes and again i think for it's not it's not for majority of people yeah so if you're just yeah both marian you both got your student loan debt you both got you know maybe a few you know a couple thousand hundreds of i don't know i don't whatever yeah 10 000 and what i don't know you could make up the scenario yeah for majority of people i would say no but if there is significant difference

there's a love made that I could see how that plays into it I feel like we'll just throw ourselves in the same fire that you were saying where you get a lot of hate

but I couldn't I could not fathom having separate accounts because the complexity of like it's a secret to a certain extent it's a complexity

because it's like well what have you earned or deserved to be split and half. It even pulls up the ideas of like stay at home moms whose like the sole income might be coming from a husband. If you feel that unequal weight in your finances, that can be debilitating. Oh, yeah. Oh, I think it's, I think it's, it plays into so much. It plays into so

much of your viewpoints. Because what ends up happening from a tactical skin point, you end up being roommates. Yeah. Where you're like, you're paying this, you're paying that. And then, and again, And people's argument is, well, and again, if there's, I'll say this too, the asterisk, if there's addiction, if you're getting legally separate, like, if there's things that you need to protect yourself. Yeah. Absolutely. And we hear those stories, which is so terrible, but you have to protect yourself in certain

situations. So I'm all for that. But again, for majority of people, they're just living your life. Yeah, you're choosing to live a separate life to a degree. Yeah. And it's like, well, I don't want him to, you know, I don't want him to nag me about this. Well, I'm like, okay, it's not a money issue. You have a husband who's nagging you.

Why? Is it because you're urgent and spending way more than what y'all agreed? Or is he a jerk? And we need to work on the jerk or the fact that you're doing whatever you want. And you can't do that. So, like, those are the issues. It's not the fact that you're joining an account. It's the fact, you know what I mean?

So, like, there's always issues underneath it. And I think that's the key. And people are like, well, we just fight less because we have separate accounts. I'm like, no, you're avoiding the thing that you actually should be fighting about. fighting conflict creates so much intimacy you create something so much greater and richer and deeper when you're doing when you're actually fighting about it

like fight about it figure it out bring a third party in like do the hard work don't just avoid it and live separate lives but yeah I had a I had a real and it I don't know I think it's like five million views everything is like this girl's crazy I mean I went through the comments the other day I was like oh no do not like me

I mean they it was it was that's so sad though because that means people are going into marriage and relationships separate like again we've done a podcast about like when we got married there was conversations on side parties of like pre-nups and separate accounts and for both of us it was like no I'm getting married yeah yeah this is we're a whole yes yes and that is fascinating to me that would be so divisive oh it's the number one thing I could say like cut up your credit cards or have the same account as your spouse and they

hate me for the spousal one yeah so i love that idea of like work through the the friction in the relationship that's been a revelation i've had we're seven and a half years into marriage and i just realized this so yeah i guess i'm slow but um is the fact that i used to get frustrated at sean not understanding my perspective on whatever it is money included and now i'm like oh actually it's so helpful to have her her perspective balance out mine I would be a train if I got to do if I did all the things that I wanted to do it would be a train wreck totally she keeps me in line and it it creates this teamwork or this beautiful compromise that both people win when you have both people's perspective weighed in I actually am while we're on this subject because this is interesting I've never even considered doing things a different way than what we're doing in a lot of ways of like splitting accounts that's literally never even come to my mind um but But our situation is, let's just, we have one shared personal account. Yeah.

We have a business account. We have a debit card and we have a credit card. This is our financial audit right now. How many credit cards do you have, babe? You want to tell her right now? You don't tell her? He's getting the southwest. I was just kidding.

And I never even had the thought of splitting accounts, but I'm happy with, like, there's nothing about me that's discontent about this situation, really. and we usually have a monthly give or take maybe like every four to six weeks touch base I will say something that I've been proud of personally as we sit here and talk about this is when we got married I had a very unhealthy relationship with finances

I didn't want to talk about it I didn't want to know all of my stability came from looking at a number it was an identity and we have worked so hard to communicate through everything like why do I feel like Andrew how many years ago was that the credit cards oh because of them because of them yeah we're like pulling up to a movie theater one night and he's like I'm cutting up our credit cards tonight and I was like okay I did it wrong I did it wrong okay and I had a panic attack and this is before I was like comfortable with I was like yeah you're making a drastic change

and I no no we're not and I was like how do you expect me to go get groceries and he's like well you're going to go to the bank you're going to get money out and then you're going to go with the envelope and you're going to pay the cash and i was like we bring off your mind totally yes yes we have since come that's so very far but it is kind of like you're saying it's never about it's never about money right it's about something far deeper yes absolutely absolutely but yeah i i i would agree with you i'm proud of like we've implemented a lot of it and it's been huge work on it yeah like that that's the thing is I'm like you could have felt like oh my gosh I don't want to talk about it I feel this this and this and for I would say a lot of people they that that's where they

stay yeah do you know what I mean so honestly pushing into it is really hard work but it gives you more stability oh so much knowing you have like an understanding of it that's right that's right yeah yeah the avoidance the um yeah because I find a lot of people do like I don't even want to they don't even want to look at what they owe no sometimes because it's like I would rather just avoid because not knowing feels better than knowing. And that's some people's thing. And I'm like, you got it. You have to face the number.

Everyone's in a while I still feel that. You have to face the number. I'm like, I don't want to know this month. Yeah, I would rather just have my head in the sand. All right, so you've written two New York Times bestsellers. Congrats. About to be a third. We'll see on the kids.

The kids side. It's going to be a third. This is your first kid's book, though. Yes, it is. Yeah. What made you want to write it? As a parents, I mean, we read, I read to my kid, way more to my first than my third.

My four sons is why I was ripping books. Like, I don't know what these are. No one reads to me. Nobody reads to me. That'll be our third. Oh, yeah. It goes down. No, real quick.

I'll just say that. That third. It is something. But I should even with my girls, like, reading at night to them, I was like, man, I selfishly, as a parent, I'm like, I loved a story. And there was, like, there's a couple in my head right now that I know that at the end, it, like, speaks to me. and I'm just like oh my gosh like that I needed that message I wanted that message and so I thought okay there needs to be a great sweet kids book with I wanted animals I was like I want it you know I want this like kind of magical feel to it but and I want my kids to hear this message but I also want the parents or the caregiver the grandparent whoever and uncle who's reading it to walk away and like oh my gosh I needed that too and so what's been fun on our team people kind of you know read through it and stuff and yeah a few A few people were like, oh, my gosh, it made me tear up. And I'm like, oh, good, I did my job.

I wanted to touch something in us, too. Just as a simple reminder. So it rhymes. That was a big thing. And it's really short. So you're welcome. Great. I don't know about you, but especially around the four-year-old age when you go to bed

and your kids pick out the longest. Oh, yeah. So, Sean, that's why I did this. I'm like, oh, honey. And I'm like trying to skip pages and she'll be like, Mommy, you skip to page. Oh, yeah, they start to know. I know. Good.

And you're like, and we're back here. Well, I do want to say thank you. you for the book because it is shocking once you become a parent how many like not good books there are for kids oh right where you start reading something and you're like oh my gosh what is this is like not nice i tell you the one that like scarred our family was llama llama llama red pajama everyone was like loves that book really and my oldest like freaked out because she's like mommy are you something with the phone all that so now every kid's book i'm like i am reading this through is this gonna scare my kids yeah or make them think they need to be scared oh yeah we went through this whole thing

And so I understand. There's one that just scarred me. Like, to my core, I don't know what it's called. It's like this, it's a beautiful book, but it's a, it's like a ballerina on the front. I'll have to get you the name of it. But it was all about how this young girl, like four or five years old, was made fun of because she's so large. Oh, no. But it like, it doesn't give any redemption.

No. Oh, jeez. And I was like, uh, we're not going to, we're going to put this in the way. I know. I feel you though. I've read some stuff and I'm like, and we may not read that one again. Yeah. But thank you.

And congratulations. Thank you. Also, we're so excited to see you in a couple weeks. Oh, yes. If you're getting a bit. I know, I'm really excited. And your podcast? Yes.

We will link everything in the description below. Thank you. But please tell people where you can find you. Yes. So the Rachel Cruz show is on podcast. cast in YouTube. And then we have a newer show called Smart Money Happy Hour. It's been out for a year. So it's another one of our Ramsey personality is George Camel. And so we do one once a week and we just have a happy hour. We have a cocktail. And we talk about pop culture, current events

and money. So how money ties into our, so it's a fun one. So if you're kind of new to the money conversation, you're like, oh gosh, I don't know if I want to dive all the way into like the really tactical stuff. Listen to Smart Money Happy Hour because it'll kind of, we do some teaching in there, but it's really light and fun. Yeah, it's fun. It is. I hope you enjoy it. And you'll take the deeper one. Yeah. I'm just glad to know you. Thanks for giving us the time. It is amazing.

Thanks for having me on. It's so helpful, you know, whether people fully agree with your style or not, I think it's so helpful to have, I guess, a gauge to kind of reference and say, oh, I like that, but I don't like this. And I think what you guys teach is really, really helpful on this, obviously help, obviously help, like, millions of people. So thanks for all you do. If you listening, want to check out, I'm glad for what I have, Rachel's newest book,

Then we'll link it down below. November 7th. That's right. November 7th. Anyway, this was fun. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you.

Can we just do a mic check in and say your name, Rachel? Yep. Check one, two. Check check, check. Rachel Cruz. And then can you say go doors? No. Go doors is something you said.

And then Anchor. Anchor down. Oh, anchor down. But you said it, though. I'll say go balls. I'll say, go balls. I'll say, I'll say, go balls. I literally thought that in your bio and I was like, he's going to do this whole thing.

We got it on date. We got it on date. i'm kidding i'm kidding uh i know it's kidding it's uh you know we're we're small fish in a huge pond i know y'all too great though thank you for the y'all like is that what you guys i feel so good and warm and fuzzy right now did you go to uti?