Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 193 | naming a baby

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

So many people have been sending us a Tik Tok video where a world-renowned name expert, Sophie Kihm, predicts what we’ll be naming baby #3! Apparently, she’s been right on several celebrity baby name predictions so we wanted to have her on the show and do a deeper dive into this topic. We talked about current name trends, name predictions, what people are paying to use baby naming services and more! Do you think one of the names we talked about today could be the one? ;) Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew Check out the Tik Tok video Sophie made where she predicts what we’ll be naming our baby! https://www.tiktok.com/@nameberry.com/video/7257223149866028331?lang=en Follow My Instagram ▶ httsp://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Defender. With a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms and a waiting depth of 900 millimeters, the Defender 110 pushes what's possible. Learn more at landrover.ca. Hi, my name is Sophie. I've been predicting celebrity baby names for Nameberry for the past seven years. I predicted that Sean Johnson was going to name her son Jet. I am loving this, Sophie.

You're like a psychic right now. It's freaking me out. An example of that would be a name like Brin, which... I love that. I love that name. I'm curious. What would you guess we would name a girl or a boy this time around? What's up, everybody?

Welcome back to Couple Things. With Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. Today is fascinating. Fascinating. We are interviewing Sophie Keem, who is the editor-in-chief at Nameberry. which their job is to name things, name babies, give adults new names if they want a new name,

name boats, name pets, name companies. And we're doing this interview because Sophie went kind of viral when she posted a video predicting our third baby's name. She guessed accurately Jett's name, which is wild. And she goes through this whole prediction process with the third baby's name. and I'm not going to lie. She's pretty accurate. So I'm looking at this video

and I immediately have the thought that we have to talk to Sophie and just understand what her process is and how she comes to these conclusions. And the conversation that we just had with her was everything I hoped for and more. And honestly, I kind of had like an epiphany slash life-changing moment in the middle of this.

Andrew thinks he's living in the Matrix right now because of this conversation. We talk about essentially how, a name comes to be and you know for those who are Shakespeare fans what's in a name and honestly it shook me to my core yeah Sophie explains that there's basically a process with each couple she's very good at profiling she has her process and with us she's kind of got us down to a science and she knows a plus b equals c for what our names are probably going to be this episode was almost like the ones we've done with

eneagrams or personality tests or like for those who are into astrology like the horoscopes it's almost like talking to Sophie and hearing her process of how she was profiling us was like looking in a mirror yeah and she was telling us something about who we were yeah which is so interesting when you think that you are like this

unique person and she's just saying no you're you're just you know the average person who lives in Nashville at age 31 like you're just like everybody else in that age I was just fascinated and I hope you are as well. I learned a lot in this episode. She talks about some data. She gives some of the most popular names from last year as well as least popular and kind of her process through it all. So

anyway, if you're interested in Sophie and her company, Nameberry, we'll link information down below. But without further ado, we bring you the baby namer, Sophie Kean. I cannot tell you how many people sent the video of you guessing the baby's name to us. And I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to give anything away. But it's fascinating how accurate you are. Did I get it right? Maybe.

We will not disclose. We cannot disclose. Okay. Because I got Jett's name right back in the day. I don't think I did a prediction for Drew's name. But I did I did guess Jets. So I like to, you know, when I, there's extra pressure. when I get a previous baby's name right to then get the next one.

Can you tell us about who you are, what you do, and how you got here? My name is Sophie Keem. I work for Nameberry, so I'm the editor-in-chief, and Nameberry's the biggest website about names, not just baby names. We also have, you know, anyone who's looking for a new name. name for themselves or, you know, a pet, anything else like that. But we do talk a lot about baby names specifically. So I started working there in 2015 and it really started as predicting what celebrities were going to name their babies. I had this column and I would I would run it monthly and I would

predict, you know, a bunch of, a bunch of couples what they were going to call their child. And it turned out that I was pretty good at it. So it got more popular. And then we made the decision to switch it into a social media video series. So now I do one couple every week. And I, you know, take a look at their style, any information that's out there about people. And the most helpful thing is having older children because that really gives you a sense of a couple's baby name style. So that's really what I use. So Nameberry does pets. I understand you do boats, babies, you do renames.

So it's like if you're looking for a name, Nameberry can help you out. Yeah, no, I've helped name businesses. I've helped name people's pets. Babies, we do a lot of name changes. So people who want to change their baby's name or people who want to change their own name, we talk about that stuff too. Why do you think people use your service? This is the novel concept to me.

I mean, it's fascinating, but I'm so curious. Well, I think, you know, if people who use consulting services are, you know, looking for something specific that they need some advice on. So either they want a name that's really unique or they want to hear, you know, is this name going to be really popular in the next 10 years. That's something that I can make a pretty good guess about or forecast the trends and things like that. And then we also have a lot of people who just use our site for inspiration. We have lists of names.

We are always writing blog posts. We have our social media, TikTok, Instagram, all of that stuff, where we share information about names. So we have a community of people who are really interested in names, name nerds, who want to learn more about every type of name and just, you know, are fascinated by that whole world. And then we have people who are looking for a name for their child or themselves, and they might interact with other parts of the site using lists. And if they really are having trouble or want that outsider opinion, then they're going to use consulting services. This is so fascinating to me because I feel like, which you've talked about for, there's so much significance behind a name. Like, it's almost like the profiling you do of why people are naming it their babies or their boats or their businesses, certain types of names. But when someone's coming to you, how do you hone in on like what's unique about them?

why do you want something that's significant in this category, whether it's like a noun or old school or traditional? How does your process go down? Yeah. For our consulting clients, we have a big questionnaire that they fill out where we get some basic information and then we really have to have a conversation. So it ends up being something like this where you're saying, well, what are you looking for in a name? What are your values in a name. How do you feel about your own name, right? That really influences how you name your children, your experience with your own name. So we talk about all of those things. We try and get to the bottom of what's really important and what maybe is a priority but not a requirement, right? Because

sometimes people are looking for a name that has everything and that might not be out there. What makes you good at this? I know a lot about names. I have been in this industry, I suppose, for I think almost 10 years at this point. I was very interested in names from a young age. I have a pretty good memory. So I would, you know, as a child, I would just memorize where names are on the popularity charts or names meetings, things like that. So I have a very strong background in names. And then, you know, working at the site, this is, this is my job. So I think about baby names all day long. I'm very up on the trends, good at predicting trends. And then you just, you see a bunch of people. I'm always interested in what people are naming their babies. So I can start to pick out patterns like, oh, okay, you know, that that's your style. You might like this.

kind of name. You just start to notice what people are naming their kids. I'm so excited for you to diagnose our style later on. Later on. But do you find that people, so you mentioned looking at trajectories of the popularity of names, do people usually want names that are going to be common use or do they want unique names usually? It totally depends. So just because it's a kind of a self-selecting group, we see more people who want a unique name. If you want a super traditional name, if you're like, oh, you know, I love the name James and nothing is going to change my opinion about that, you're probably not going to talk to us because we can't really, you know, good, great, use the name James. That's amazing. But so we see a lot of people who are looking for unique names.

I think, or definitely, I mean, the data supports this. In general, names are becoming more unique. Our name pool is more, much more diverse than it was. The percentage of children given the top names, which in 2022 were Olivia and Liam, is so much smaller than the percentage of people who were given the top names, you know, decades before. And each year, you know, we see this, the percentage going down. And we see more. And we see more. names added to the pool. I think something that's really interesting is boy names, which historically just because of traditions with naming boys, they were often named after family members. So you just had a much smaller name pool. And now the boy name pool is really expanding and we're seeing it catch up to, you know, just in terms of numbers, the number of boy names that are in use compared to the number of girl names. And that's because people are reviving, really old names, but mostly people are creating new names. They're really open to the idea that something could be a name for their baby that wasn't in use 50 years ago. I mean,

Jet is an example of that. That's a pretty new name. I will, it is funny. I think I found Jet on one of your lists at one point, but we also found it on a family tree, and it was kind of like connecting. I was like, oh, okay, I really like this. But I'm curious within your process, do you have like your go-to line when someone presents something and you're like, hmm, I don't know if I would recommend that. Ooh, that's a good, that's a really good question. I, it totally depends on the situation. And I try and always tie it back to someone's values or what they say they're looking for in a name. So if you come to me and you say, I want a really unique name, but one of the names on my list is Oliver, I'm going to say, well, Oliver's a great name. I love it.

But if you are really wanting a unique name that you're not going to see other children, you know, have at school or, you know, at the park, anything like that, that might not be the best choice for you. Or similarly, if someone says, I want a name that people are going to be able to pronounce and spell easily, and then they, you know, but their favorite name is Sirisha or something, Irish name with a, you know, unintuitive spelling to many English speakers, that's going to be something that I bring up to them and say, well, you know, I love that name. It's beautiful. But you might want to think about how that matches up with this value. of yours of having a name that's pretty easy to pronounce and spell. Are you dealing much in values? So I like Jet the name because I think it's shorthand for Judah, which means excellence or something like that. Are you like kind of doing some psychological or like missional family therapy to a certain extent? Yeah. I mean, so that's also a part of my background. I work part-time as a perinatal therapist. So,

I bring that into everything that I do and in that job, I'm working with parents or parents to be talking about, you know, values around parenting and perineal, you know, mood disorders like anxiety and depression and OCD and all of that stuff. And values are a big part of, you know, working with people therapeutically. So I definitely bring that lens to this. But I do think it's a really useful way to work with people around names because ultimately, you know, you can fit certain names into different categories. You know, if someone really wants a family name, we're going to prioritize that and search for something that has that family connection, or, you know, even the values that seem more superficial, like a unique name versus a popular name,

or something that people are going to be familiar with but isn't used very often. It's so interesting. So like just the idea that there are trends of like, hey, Olivia is going to be popular. I wonder if it reflects. Does that happen intentionally? Like it's it's almost like a conscious or subconscious thought of like, hey, we collectively as a society are wanting something that's kind of more common. And that's whatever people consume is leading them to all have that same conclusion.

And then there's waves where, you know, male names now are a little more diverse or there's more names in the pool. It just, I, one of my favorite podcasts that I listen to is Freakonomics. And they talk about tight versus loose cultures, loose cultures being super high in innovation, very low in, like, collective, you know, like you look how we, the United States. states dealt with the pandemic versus like Singapore, the loose, like there's pros and cons to each, we didn't really collectively, like, move towards one thing as a group, whereas like Singapore is very tight country, super obedient is kind of a term, but also lower on innovation. It's like, I wonder if the name trends of like, hey, we're all, there's a higher share of common names reflect my question is do you have any data on the diversity of united states

names versus other countries um yes so certain countries also take their own data um i don't know off the top of my head what the percentages in other countries are for um you know using the top names or anything like that it's also it's a little bit tricky because um most of the the countries that record name data are similar to the U.S., you know, part of the global north, looser, you know, cultural identity. But what we do know is we have good data from, you know, history in the U.S. And back in, you know, the first half of the 20th century, when as a culture, we were a little bit, we were more interested in conformity. and you know wanting to fit in and you so you do see a higher percentage of babies given the

top names that being said we didn't people didn't have access to name data back then so it wasn't like everyone was saying oh linda is the most popular baby name of the time that means i'm going to choose that for my child or vice versa say i really don't want to choose that for my child people only really had access to baby name data. Starting in the in the 80s and 90s, I mean, the co-founders of nameberry, Pamela Redmond and Linda Rosencrans, they spearheaded this the way we think about baby names now. Their first book was published in 1988 and it was the first baby name book to look at names from the perspective of image or style and they figured out the popularity charts for baby names, that that data didn't really exist before. And it was only in

1997 that that data became widely available to people. So it's hard to say, you know, exactly, but I do think, and there have been, you know, significant shifts as the culture in the US has become more individualistic, that people are wanting more unique names. I feel like it's a parent that you literally have a job where people hire your services to help find significant names for, let's just say babies, but anything. I think one of the biggest stresses as a parent in naming your kid is you're basically helping give them an identity. You're pre, like you try to image what your kid is going to be like and you want to give a matching name. do you find that names truly help form an identity of a kid or do you have so many customers coming back and saying I'm 20 some years old I don't like my name I don't think it fits my

identity so I want to change it completely have you heard of the the name marijuana Pepsi it's a real person seriously yeah oh I don't know are you it's real I that sounds familiar yes yeah go ahead So, yes, names, I think, have become even more tied with identity. So there's a lot more pressure these days to find that right name, which is really hard when you haven't met this person yet. You don't know. You know, to be honest, I think that most babies, there, you know, of course, are cases of name regret, but most babies grow to fit their names. But I think a lot of that is not because of the name itself and more because of the parents who are choosing the name. You know, you are, you are choosing a name based on all these things that have to do with

you, your values, the things that you're interested in. And your values as that child's parents are more likely to influence that kid than the name itself. So that might be an unexpected answer from someone who, who deals with names all the time. But I do really believe that names say so much about our parents and less about us. Not to be facetious, but what is in a, what's in a name, Sophie? Why do you find them intriguing or interesting? Well, I mean, there's so much in a name. The fact that you can look at a name and understand something about, you know,

you can look at names through the lenses of sociology. history, psychology, statistics. I mean, they are all, I love how interdisciplinary they are. And then it is, I think it's so cool that when I meet someone, I have this party trick where I, you give me your name and I'll tell you things about your parents because we know statistically things about how older parents name differently than younger parents, how people who leave more conservative on the political spectrum named differently than people who lean more liberal. And, you know, I can also make educated guesses, sometimes, you know, it depends, not all names, you know, on where you live because names are more, you know, there's some names are more popular

in certain parts of the country than others. And, and so I can, I can tell you a lot about your your parents' values. And it's so cool that, um, all of these pieces of identity, are communicated in a name. Wow. Great answer. Where is the database that you guys pull, like, hey, Olivia of was used 2,000 times in 2022? Where does that come from?

It's from the Social Security Administration. So they have really good data on, you know, all the names in the U.S. And so we have access to all the names given to five or more babies of a single sex in each year. all the way back to 1880. So it's a really, really good data set. And they also split out by state. So we can tell which names are more popular in particular states. I will never forget when we had our daughter. We didn't know, we didn't find out gender until like she was here. So we had a name going in, and I can tell you this. We had Drew Hazel going in for a girl and we had

Griffin and we had Griffin Dean for a boy and I will never forget one of the rules of the hospital of giving birth in the hospital was you weren't allowed to leave until you filled out social security so you had to like permanently write their name down and I remember having such cold feet I was like Drew Hazel is edgy it's it's a different name than like what I've heard for a girl Andrew was like are you sure we should name her Mary and I was like where did this come from as we were filling out the paper so I was writing I was like let's go with Vanessa let's switch it up Vanessa feels better and I was like no but there is so much pressure like you said within like putting an identity to a kid and she is the most perfect

Drew Hazel in the world and she like has grown into our name she embodies it we feel it it's perfect but there is all of that like pressure that comes into writing it down for the first time you're like I am giving an identity to her or him and it is why Yeah. Would you mind before we get to the more personal segment of this discussion, walking us through some data that you might have available? Just I'm curious, like, do you have information on, you mentioned the most popular names? What about the least used names, right? Like that were used maybe six times or some of the regional differences. I'm just give it to give all the data that you have. Yeah. I guess it would be a lot. I'm pulling this. up right now. Do we want to start with rare girl names or boy names? Either. Okay. Let's go, girl.

Okay, let's go, girl. Let me see here. The thing about it, so yeah, they only will, for privacy reasons, give you names that were used five or more times. And it's so fun to go through those lists because there are a lot of gems in there. And then there are, you know, there are names where it's like, oh, that's spelled differently, or maybe, you know, names from cultures that are underrepresented in the U.S., just really cool, really cool stuff in here. And there are so many that were given to just five kids.

So let me try and. This is nationally, though. This is nationally, yes. Okay, so there were three and a half million babies born globally, sorry, three and a half million babies born in the US yes in 2022 so of the three it's 3.6 million so five times so we have for baby girls um Seattle like the city that's one of them let me let me find some other ones um Wimberley that was it that was a new one this year Wimberley in two spellings but the one that was given to five was W I M-E-R-L-Y um that

yeah that was that was a new one that uh that debuted um we have max like it was it so it maybe it was used less than five times in previous years but this was a first time it since 1980 this is fascinating oh sorry the one you just said do you just say vaccine no maxi m a x i was like what that would be a little bit crazy i think yeah named their kid vaccine there were some COVIDs. I will, some people know. Really? COVID. COVID with a K though, not with a C. It never Oh, okay. But with a K, it did.

Oh, we have jinx for a girl, but J-Y-N-X. Joyous. That should be used more. Yeah, that one I think will, that one will rise. That's one of, it's part of a, you know, a broader trend in these adjective names. brilliant also for girls

I like it I like all these it's cool Cambridge okay Canary and let's see let's do one more let's find another

let's find another good one Clara Bella all one word and then for boys let's find some photos Wilkins Venus for boys and Valiant

Fenn. Oh, that's a really cool one. F-E-N-N. I like that one. We know a couple of F-I-N-N-N-F-N. Yeah, it's... Marvin? Garvin, G-A-R-V-I-N. Let's see. Adresa. That's a cool one. I know someone named Adresa. Really? And let's see, Collins with a K. Oh, and K-U-Y-P-E-R, like the K-E-R, that's a

astrological one. So yeah, those are some, those are some of the rarest names that we know were given to babies. Wow. Fascinating. Fascinating. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot track side. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at mx.ca.com.com. Tim's new scrambled egg loaded croissant or is it croissant no matter how you say it. Start your day with freshly cracked scrambled eggs loaded on a buttery flaky croissant. Try it with maple brown butter today at Tim's at participating restaurants in Canada for limited time.

Okay, I'm curious. What do you know about us, selfie? So we've spoken now for less than a half hour. But you've done some research on us or probably have some insight that I'd be curious to learn. Yes. So I do know that you two are younger parents. And so it makes sense that you chose these more modern names because older parents are more likely to go the traditional route. And you chose, you know, Jet, which hasn't really been used as a first name very often until the 21st century. And Drew, which feels innovative. You know, of course, we know of Drew Barrymore and we've heard it as a first name. girl name before, but it really didn't start to gain traction until recently. And you also just chose names that were really pretty on trend. I mean, even Hazel feels really cool right now. Jet is a cool name. You'll see I pulled some trends for you guys that we can we can talk about

later and both of these names fit into what people are interested in right now. Well, I mean, you're you're from or you live in Nashville. and what I know about people, A, who live in cities and B, who, um, you know, are in Tennessee. Well, let's start with cities. People in cities are more likely to choose names that are ahead of the curve. And that's exactly what you did. You chose both of these names before, I mean, they haven't peaked yet. And so, um, that that's just something that we, we observe in cities. They tend to catch on to these trends faster and then, you know, start adopting these names earlier like you guys. And then in Tennessee, some of the stuff we notice there and in other kind of,

you know, southern states, states in the West to these cool boy names with these spiky consonants that just, it's kind of a regional thing. You're not seeing that in the upper Midwest or, you know, upper part of the East Coast where they prefer kind of softer boy names seems to be, more of the trend, but these cool, what do you mean by softer boy names? Sorry. What do you mean by softer boy names? Boy names with softer sounds. So think Silas, what else, Elias, lots of S sounds, miles, boy names that feel a little bit more liquid or kind of gentle, maybe have more conventionally feminine sounds, whereas people in, you know, Tennessee and the South and the West tend to like these like really

masculine boy names. That's a big trend. Which is really funny because as we were trying to select a boys, like a boy name, we're like something strong. Like something, which is very, it's very southern. That's like a very southern trend. Mm-hmm. It is. I interrupted.

Keep going. Oh, no, no, no, no, don't worry. No, that's really all I had to say. Like that, it just, it fits where you live, your age. It just, it makes total sense for me. And I think that's probably why I got it right when I predicted Chet's name because I was like, okay, these things, you know, I do know these things about you. Let me make this educated guess based on those demographics about a name that you might pick.

It is funny. If you were to see, like, our ongoing list of names that we have to, like, pick from that we love, I could probably put a side by side of the list you would come to, like, you would put together and it would be the same. But it's like every post you ever posted about Drew when we were pregnant with her and then Jet. I'm like, oh, I like those names, all the ones that you were, like, predicting. So, like, write them down. You know, without giving away your proprietary, you know, method, I'm curious. practically so like you have all this date on us okay Sean and Andrew live in Tennessee in a city um they're younger are you like filtering this big list out and you're like okay sweet here's all here's all the urban names and then wait no they're they came from the Midwest so let's mix out

this half of it and are you just is it almost like an algorithm that you have or is it a bit of an art no it's more of an art form I would say um I it's funny because I mean, sometimes I will consciously think of these things and other times I just, I can very quickly filter it in my head and say, here's what I know about you. You are, you know, not the type of people to name your son Thomas. You're probably not going to choose something like Wesley. You know, I just, I can, I can do that very quickly. And, but, you know, also I want, I, I create a bigger list at first for most people. And then I try and fit just, I don't know, based on intuition, too. So I can't tell you exactly why I would put this name over this name on a list. I just kind of go with

my gut. Try to verbalize, like, why don't you think we're the type of people to name our son, Wesley? Because you're accurate. First, I mean, going back to the demographic stuff, Wesley is the type of name that maybe a couple who's a little bit older is going to choose for their kids. It's more traditional. It does have those softer sounds. And I, you know, the problem is now, too, like it gets so much easier after you have multiple kids because then I'm like, well, you didn't choose a soft sounding boy name. So I can't, it's, I have a hard time imagining you going in that direction. But I guess, you know, I did, I think in the video that I did for this pregnancy, I did have some other more feminine girl names, even though Drew is more unisex. So it kind of moves a long. Well, because I think you chose Hazel as the middle name, and that's more feminine, even though it has kind of a gender neutral sound, actually. but I could I could see you going with something that's slightly more feminine if you have another girl

because I think you didn't choose Drew just because it was a gender neutral name like that that wasn't your only that wasn't your only reason and so I why why do we choose Drew I'm love I am loving this so yeah no this is you're like a psychic right now it's freaking me out no I Well, I mean, you chose Drew because of, you know, the connection to Andrews, family connection. It is a cool girl name and it's on trend. And so that was more of what I honed in on, I think, where I think you are more likely to go with something that feels current, that's, you know, ahead of the trends. And just because that seems to be to me, I don't know, based on your Instagram. watching some of your YouTube videos and stuff like that. Who you guys are. You're very stylish.

You understand the culture and the style. And people like that are more likely to choose a name that fits those same things, something that is ahead of the curve. And that doesn't necessarily mean you're only going to choose a gender neutral name. Although I could see that for you. I could see you going with another kind of a name with unisex style even for a girl. And so what I mean by that is something that feels kind of unisex but is actually more common for for girls or is pretty is pretty feminine um i think you know an example of that would be a name like brin which you know people would which i love i love that name it's a name with unisex style and sound but it's in usage in practice it's a girl

name you know we don't leave any boys with the name so i don't think we've ever talked about that name that's a good name so we use we just have that little baby name app i'm sure you know it's like the tinder for baby names with the youtube videos on it did you watch that youtube video we did of us uh just swiping through i did okay i wonder if that was informative at all but um we'll just go through that and then we'll make a list off of that or you know maybe we meet someone with a unique name um which by the way have you seen these like uh comedy skits on when you're naming a child but you associate that with someone you know is that a real thing like not wanting to yes oh my goodness when when i consult with couples people will be like well i love this name

but you know my partner knew someone in eighth grade who had this name and they can't an association out of their head. So I think it depends on who it is, who you know with the name. If it's someone who's like very, very close to you or a really, you know, your middle school bully or something like that, well, maybe you don't want to use that name, but, you know, for most things, if it's a kid that you knew in the fourth grade, well, your association with the name and your child is going to override that, but it definitely turns people off to certain names.

Why I'm like giddy with giggles right now and so fascinated by this is because I just had a realization, honestly, kind of shook myself image a little bit, having this conversation with you because it's like, here I am and with Sean, it's like we're sitting down at dinner and it feels like this really novel. Our process for naming is like, okay, let's, let's think about our family tree or let's think about some of these names we've we've come across and researched and like we have our own process that we think is innovative to us or like unique to us but you're pretty much saying like no if I just throw in a blender you know two white people from Nashville Tennessee who are at age 31 I'm going to get the same it makes me feel in some ways less special like you know

I'm saying it's like that this is I'm just going to push this through the algorithm and there's your names as opposed to this like really not that we're we're not artsy at all but it's like you know I chose Jet because it was like strong name right and I'm like okay I have I have these reasons or Drew it's like my my vision for my daughter is that she'll be like this really strong presence of a woman and it's like that's my thought process where you're just saying like oh yeah maybe you just have that thought process because you're a symptom of your surroundings. But I also think what

she's saying is like she's really good at profiling people. You're really good at like understanding and figuring out and researching and collecting all your information of like what we believe in, what our values are, where we're from. So it's not, she's not even saying like it's two white people put them in a blender

and it's Tennessee. She's saying we're influencers, we're modern, we're young. We like we have you or I have a unique name like are you experiencing the same thing though that I am or like like it feels it feels like we're choosing from millions of names when she's like you're probably only choosing from like 20 but but that makes me feel like I'm part of the matrix okay it's like I'm not no it's it's a strange experience because how many names do you do you have data on how many names were used in oh my gosh 22 oh yeah I mean it was I think over 50,000

for each gender No no I think for I think it was about It's usually about 30,000 for girls And it's getting closer to that for words So between 50 and 60,000 Which is actually not that much Right

Considering 3.5 million babies You know how many names are Not just last year but in circulation No I don't I mean we have over I think over 80,000 in our database, but we don't even, I mean, scratch the surface with names, I mean, especially from, you know, cultures where there's information.

Overlap between 2022 names and 2021 names. How many innovative names per year? Like, what's the percentage of new names? Oh, that's a good question. There's always a good number, but it's hard to say always because some names will drop out and other names will come in. So it tends to be pretty similar in terms of. of in terms of raw numbers. But we do see, I mean, the name pool's growing every year.

By 5% or like what's your estimation? I would have to check on that. It's definitely not as much as as 5%. It would be, you know, less than 5. It would, it's probably less than 1% even. I would need to look at that. But it is growing and there are there are new names all the time. Okay, so as we get ready to wrap, I'm curious if you could guess what would be your predictions, which you've posted a TikTok on and on socials, what would you guess we would name a girl or a boy this time around? Okay, okay. I am going to say, for a girl, true chat. I really like the idea. of another single syllable name. But maybe, I don't know, because I think I posted in the video too. I really, I think you should use the name Shaw as a middle name because it would honor you, Sean. It's one of my favorite ways to honor Sean. So I would love that, I would

love to see that for a girl. So I could see something like Drew Hazel. Let's go with Lenin Shaw. I like that, or Lenin Shaw. I mean, I like that as a combination. Lenin is cool. It's more feminine, but it has that gender neutral style. You could get the really cool nickname Lenny, which people are loving right now. And yeah, Lenin Shaw, Lenin Shaw East. I think that that's a really, that's a really good name. Okay. And let's do, let's do a boy. Drew Jet. I mean, I definitely you know something that is that is a strong name i want that kind of sharp masculine edge to the name um so i'm going to go with i think i think knox i think knox is such uh such a cool name um it maybe that's too tennessee actually because sometimes people in

tennessee are like i don't want to use the name knox or i don't want to use the name nags actually scratch that. We're not doing Knox. I like, I think Cade. Cade, I think, is a good name. It's a strong name. It's still somewhat, somewhat rare. It's not, it's not too, too popular. And I think it's cool. Cade East. I'm going to do Cade, Cade Wyatt. I don't know. I like that. I like that as a combination. Cade Wyatt East. That's final guess, locked in. This is interesting. So my understanding is which I don't know how accurate all this name like what does it mean type of data is but my dad's name was guy my brother's name is guy and Wyatt I think is some son of guy it's like yeah it means son of guy or something like that so yeah I mean Wyatt let me I think the names are

probably related um let me let me let me let me let me do a double check here. That would be a really cool way to honor your dad. Yeah, I mean, so the names both have like Anglo-Saxon origins, and I think that's really cool. I'm not sure that they're exactly related, but I like that as a, you know, it does have some of the same sounds. And, I mean, Guy would actually be a really cool name or middle name. I've heard a couple of people talking about it lately. It's super rare. But I feel like that's one that, I mean, you'd be way ahead of the curve, but in a very cool, innovative way.

I have three more thoughts. Three more thoughts. So I've been challenged recently back to Sean's question of like, does a name affect a kid's future? and maybe this is more touching on your perinatal therapy than the naming but like jet is is like a little more energetic than Drew and so like a little more hands on you know he's like touchy he's prone to maybe break more things and we we got in this habit and my extended family too of like oh jet's crazy you're like wow he's a wild kid or what a nut right and um and then I was kind of convicted of someone approached me and said hey do you think maybe if he keep calling

him that he's actually just going to live up to that reflection of him and I was like dang that's a really good point um that's what I think I I you like when we named Drew and even when we named Jet it was I don't really put that much value in like oh I'm not stressed about naming the kid perfectly right um as as much as I am now interested in the names, but it's like, I think there is something to telling someone like, hey, you're excellent or you're, you are this and like setting an aspiration for them to live up to. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but that's just a recent revelation I've had. Yeah, I mean, there's actually been research on this. And so there is some truth to that,

that if you name, you know, whatever you name your child. And it tends, I think it is more on the extreme. So if you choose a really energetic name like Jet, perhaps, that that does influence how people are going to think about your child or approach them. And so it becomes this self-fulfilling prophecy in a way. And because that is true. I mean, if you, from the more therapeutic psychological side, if you are telling your kid they are some way, they will internalize that and they will they will live up to that basically so um that can can be influenced by certain names i think you know the reason why i didn't i didn't bring this up earlier is because i think it's pretty you have to have a name that is kind of on the extremes that most names don't have a certain

image that we associate with the personality of a child but you know maybe the super soft names or the super energetic masculine names for boys could could influence there will always be kids that have those names that you know really aren't the way that we would imagine a child with a name like jet or silas or anything like that um and they'll you know maybe actively rebel against that but for the most part i do think that there's there's some truth in there that if you if you give your child a very evocative name that people are going to make certain certain assumptions about them. How many names will Nameberry consult this year?

Oh, that's a good question. A lot. I mean, we've done probably, you know, we do a couple of weeks. So over 100. And that's a mix of baby names. We mostly do baby names and name changes. You know, sometimes we get people with pets or boats or, businesses, but for the most part, that's going to be baby names, baby name changes, or adult

name changes. And yeah, we do a bunch of them from, you know, all over the place. We do a lot of international consults as well. What do you find? So I had my best high school friend when he graduated high school. I used to call him Justin and he moved to Colorado. Only wants to be called JJ now. What do you find as the reason for adults wanting to change their name? It's usually identity, which is, you know, goes back to the hardest task about naming a baby as signing someone an identity. People, you know, who don't, who feel their name doesn't match their gender identity, people who feel like they want a new start. So we do actually have done quite a few surname consultations, people who are maybe getting divorced and want to, you know, have a new surname, something that kind of represents their new life, people who never felt connected to the person whose surname that they have. And yeah, so it all, it all goes back to identity. People really want something that fits who they think that they are because that that incongruence can be, I think, really pretty damaging for people.

Are you into like astrology or like enigram personality type tests? Yeah, I mean, I like it. I am very curious about it. I definitely read my horoscope and my co-star and everything like that. I mean, I don't put too much stock into it, but I am very curious. I always, I love anything that can kind of give me more information about myself. Well, I'm wondering which is a true reflection, like these, the enneagram or, someone's name you know because you just told us so much yeah I think I think our names for

sure because it's it's truly revealing of all of these different facets of our lives and our history who our parents are you know all of those things whereas you know an enneagram is really fun but I'm not I'm not sure if you know I'm not sure you could get really good data that supports the accuracy of those i mean in fact i think they've done studies and it isn't backed by data um but names this stuff is uh okay also do you have any psychological insight on people with hyphenated who hyphenate their last names or like shans i actually don't know what your official name is but she went from sean michel jonson michelle johnson M-A-C-H-E-L

to Sean Johnson East What is that like Do you have thoughts or insight For people who do hyphenations Or the middle name is now the last name Which I got from your mom Yeah Yeah I think

Part of that is also You know Demographic trend related Younger people are more likely to change their surnames When they get married And Also yeah It's become more common these days to drop the given middle name and put in, put your surname as your middle name.

Hyphenated, there's no real psychological or good data on this, but I have seen people, well, there is data. It was much more common to hyphenate back in the 80s and 90s. People are moving away from that now. So anecdotally, I think people find that it then makes it hard when they're starting their own family and then, you know, say they want to use the father's last name for the baby and the father has a hyphenated surname. It's like, well, do we give our child this same hyphenated surname that then doesn't represent the other parents, you know, a birth name? or do we create a new surname? Do we do a different, you know, hyphen combination? So I think it introduces more variables, which can some people find difficult. And in terms of, you know, with moving the, your maiden name to the middle position, I think that's also a way just to preserve identity.

whereas in, you know, the 20th century, we saw more people just drop their maiden name and take on, you know, their partners' last name. Most people find that their surnames are more significant to them than their middle names. You know, a lot of people don't have much of a connection to their middle names. So that's just a way of preserving who we are. And so I think that's a really, that's a positive trend. It almost seems like the hyphenated name is like a one-generational. Like I give my kid a hyphenated name, but they're probably not going to pass that on to this next generation. Have you ever heard of a double hyphenated name?

No. That would be very cumbersome. One thing that's happening more often is people are creating new last names. And we've consulted with people on that. They're saying, well, we're starting our own family. and we want to have, you know, a new family last name. So oftentimes we'll, you know, help them find some combination of syllables that represents both

or sometimes they'll just choose a completely different last name that either, you know, connects to both cultures of the parents or is just kind of a meaningful word. This is so fascinating. I just can't get over the fact that like here I thought, I was some pioneer, like Lewis and Clark, forging my way into the future when really I'm just like a regurgitation of the history. It's just like I'm a result of my circumstances, which is humbling in a lot of ways. It's also comforting in some ways, like once you get over the ego of it, whereas like one, any success we've had, like this goes for names, but also everything, like, you know, where you live, how you live.

It's like, oh, man, it's all just where you're born and who you're born, too. Kind of. Not to downplay it, but I'm just floored right now, Sophie. I'll leave you at this, Sophie. This has been fascinating and exciting. And it's probably thanks to Nameberry that we've had a lot of our names. So thank you for that. But I'll leave you with one clue, okay?

Okay. For the names that we've selected. I feel like within the famous worlds, I know one person with our girl's name and I know two with our boy's name. And that's it. Okay. Oh, all right. I'm going to remember that. I will, I think I could use that to really figure it out. So you might get an email from me later. Great. Thank you so much, Sophie. This was a real treat. For those that want to learn more about Sophie, the work she's doing or nameberry will include information down below but uh also do you mind if we play the the video that you posted the ticot no please okay perfect