Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 255 | Marriage isn't about your happiness

Episode Date: April 9, 2025

Today we tackled the countercultural topic that marriage isn’t just about your happiness. Oof, we know this one is a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people but in a world telling us to only pursue what makes us feel happy in the moment, we felt this episode was an important reminder that when it comes to your commitment to marriage, it’s always worth pursuing. We hope that whether you’re engaged, newlyweds, or have been married for a long time you find hope in this episode, knowing that marriage is a beautiful gift and wonderful tool for character refinement, compromise and selflessness- sometimes more than we’d prefer ;) Love you guys! Shawn & Andrew Check out SKIMS best intimates including the Fits Everybody Collection and more at https://www.skims.com/couplethings #skimspartner Beam Kids is now available online at https://www.shopbeam.com/COUPLETHINGS Take advantage of our exclusive discount of up to 40% off using code COUPLETHINGS Follow our podcast Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/shawnandandrewpods/ Subscribe to our newsletter ▶ https://www.familymade.com/newsletter Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Shop My LTK Page ▶ https://www.shopltk.com/explore/shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en #Marriage #Happiness #Refinement #Relationships #ShawnandAndrewPods (00:00) - our biggest fight ever (02:12) - life updates (04:18) - why we are doing this and how we disagree (12:30) - “the point isn’t the “happiness”, it’s about support” (18:56) - viewing emotions (andrew's pov) (24:00) - being fully known and loved (28:17) - do you run away if there is no happiness? (33:05) - balancing the variables (37:40) - marriage isn’t about your happiness Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. Today's podcast is all about how marriage is not about happiness. That's right. Which is probably our biggest argument we've ever gotten in. I remember it was our fifth date, my first time in Iowa, and we're playing tennis. Yeah.

I don't know what park that was, but we're playing tennis. And I said, Sean, I got to tell you something. She was like, what? We met at the net. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not here to make you happy. happy. Who does that? One, also disrespectful. No, I mean, it's the delivery that makes a difference. Bad timing. That's right. Those are all probably true things. They were. But. And you still stand by it.

I do. And that's the title of today's episode. And it's always funny because you like to bring it back up and you're like, you know what? That's not something I care about. Happiness. Making me happy. And it's like, wow, all righty. I'm clearly doing a great job at not making you happy. So mission accomplished. We did an episode with the corridors the other day, and it came up that marriage might not have the explicit purpose or the main purpose of personal fulfillment, right? I think sometimes it's a fine line between thinking, this relationship helps me be happy, and that's my main goal.

Or a result of this relationship is me being healthy, but that's not the main focus. Yes. I'm equating fulfillment and happiness here. Sorry, you said healthy. Sorry, happy. Happy. So, we wanted to talk about that. Kind of just discover this together.

Yeah. And I don't think that marriage is all about your happiness. This topic might sound a little countercultural. I know. I think we're still sorting through it. But we're going to unpack why marriage is still worth fighting for even when it's hard and even through the unhappy seasons and how we have shifted our mindset while going through those rough seasons let's just back up first before we dive in life updates guys

we are running on little sleep and are a lot less than me but that's usual um i don't know how you do that you don't sleep a lot i was anti caffeine before kids i was like not into coffee definitely frowned upon energy drinks but caffeine but you also like can operate without sleep I really can't no I really cannot but here's the techniques I have but you wake up at 4 a.m. I have developed I woke up at 4 30 today we had to do we had a 5 a.m. meeting today. Yeah we can't tell you why. Um but it was fun and I woke up at 430 and then I did my workout and I did a sauna and then I did then you swam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You thrive. But we just got back last night. We landed at 12 at midnight. We were so honored and don't know how we got this, you know, title or job. We got to go host one of the annual fundraisers in New York City for Make-A-Wish, which is really cool. It was really fun. We were at Good Morning America Studios, my first time there. Sean was reliving memories of your previous times being in that studio.

Yeah. But we got to kind of steward the night and be the guides through the night, which was fun. We met a lot of good people, and that's something we want to do more of. Yeah. I do want to say, though, it did feel a little funny to sit down here, and you're like, you literally prefaced today and said, we're going to have some, like, we're going to have to navigate today, you know, a little more cautiously because, like, we're tired, we're running on less sleep. And you sit down and you say, you know which. podcast we're going to do today.

We're going to go all the way to the bottom of the list and we're going to pick that one. I'm excited about this. And in my brain, I'm like, that is so interesting to me. Well, thank you for playing along. The reason I want to do this episode is because I think

it's important. And I think when you change your expectations for how something might unravel itself, or you change your grip on the style that you think it should pan out. Actually, it can lead to a wonderful thing.

It can't. I still very strongly disagree with this. Okay. Let's talk about it. I'm pumped. You disagree with this. But do you think, is it true or false that society puts too much pressure on marriage to make you happy? For sure.

Okay. And I do agree that marriage isn't all about your happiness. but you still stand by this idea that it is not my job to make you happy and I think though at maybe a foundational level that's true I do think in a marriage

that should be a goal that should be at the forefront of your mind to say you know what I just know I'm not going to make her happy I know that's not my job no no that's how you approach it that is how you approach it the title is marriage isn't about your happiness that is the title i know but if you set your your soul

expectations up to be like that's not my job then i do think you're approaching marriage in the wrong way when i wake up in the morning it is not my main goal to pander's an aggressive word but pander to your fleeting feelings of happiness. I think happiness is a side effect of loving you well. But the reason I think you have it skewed a little bit is because you put emotions in an irrelevant category where you're like, those don't matter, to where pandering to fleeting emotions, though fleeting, emotions are a clear indication of where your spouse is in any given moment in time.

Okay, true. If your only objective in marriage is to look at the 10,000-foot view of how is the marriage going at 10,000 feet, are we headed in the right direction? then I do think you are missing a major point in a marriage to be a best friend and a confidant and a supporter of the roller coasters of life you go through every moment of every day given what you are faced with because those fleeting emotions are important to notice. And that's why it's hard for us to have argument sometimes. And it's hard for me to ask you, like,

I can tell you're kind of off today what's wrong. And in your mind, you're like, it doesn't even matter. Yeah. When it does, it affects a marriage day in and day out. And if you can't acknowledge that and say, it is important for me as a spouse to understand it, not to be the fixer of it but to understand it and it should be my job as a spouse to like

want to understand you on a daily basis and want to do things that make you happy if none of that is like a goal then I don't think the 10,000 foot view ends up working aren't you glad we're talking about this point taken point taken i am open to i'm open to expanding my perspective on this i think where i i have grown a deeper appreciation for the role of feelings um because i think you're right like they're actually

they're interesting you know that they add color to life we cannot both be beholden to our emotions Like the roller coaster, imagine the volatility of that. So I'm just, I'm injecting this as more of a, hey, hey, we're, I'm a third party. There needs to be a little separation from that. But I disagree. I completely disagree because let's just go there when dad passed being beholden to your fleeting emotions in the roller coaster of life. if I'm not acknowledging in the moment your grief and sadness that will be fleeting because you'll be happy tomorrow thinking of memories.

That's me not being a supportive wife and meeting you where you are. I don't think it's supportive if we're both drowning in emotion. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying one person should have a little more solid footing on the shore while the other person might be just basking. And I think you can have solid footing without. pandering, which is a really rough and tough

word, I think me as a wife being able to say maybe I see you're sad and that's okay. 100% no I agree but that's you being on solid footing that's not us both being wrecked you know what I'm saying?

I know but if you wake up in the morning you're like it's not my job to pander to her roller coaster of emotions maybe a better way to say it is it is my job as a spouse to wake up and know what's going on with my spouse. I agree with that. I agree with that.

And I think that's a difference of perspective. If I wake up every morning and be like, you know what, it's not my job to pander to my husband's emotions. That's waking up to actively choose such a negative view on marriage, whereas it's better to acknowledge and say verbally. I think this goes back to the first time on date five when you, decided to break the matchup just to come tell me I just want you to know here it's not my job to make you happy it's like wow way to way to kill that vibe and I think what you're failing

to acknowledge is like what is your job which is what we're about to talk about which is my main point of everything it's not I'm just thinking around I'm not like don't make her happy don't make her happy is not about her happiness it is that's not the main point the main point is what we're about to get into but go ahead no go ahead i just think i don't think it's a good piece of advice to go out and tell married couples make sure you wouldn't you know and acknowledge in the morning like it's not my job to pander to him i'm not saying that i said you literally said Not my first thought when I wake up to think, make her happy. Like, that's, I'm not saying that should be your first thought is, it's not about her happiness.

I'm saying your first thought should be, I think, I think we're very much aligned. Full engagement, high intentionality, present. But that is different than. But it is my job as your wife to know when you're sad. Yes. And to support you to try to change that. Yes. And it's the support thing that I think is what I'm talking about here.

So anyway. Anyway. Yeah, Sean, I mean, we've been through some hard things as a couple, right? We've been through some dark seasons. And I feel like we overcame it because it was not, oh, we're not happy. So then now we're layered on guilt or like frustration because we're not happy. It's like the point was not the happiness. Which is why we made it through some of these hard seasons well.

Because the point was supporting each other. But we made it through the hard seasons because we could see in each other. We're not happy. So we need to fix that. Which means coming back to joy and fulfillment, which a byproduct of that is happiness. Byproduct. I think you're trying to be a little more contrary than we actually feel. I think you're right in saying we should be aware that we're not happy.

I don't think the way we've approached these dark seasons is like, we have to fix that now. When my dad passed, that was not your, you were not like in fixed mode. Like, hey, let me get Andrew ice cream and back my side. and toys it was like no I'm here to support him I know and that is different but but it's not because it is it is me acknowledging emotions and feelings you recognize what state I'm in okay which actually in and of itself makes me feel loved right exactly so for you to say feelings and emotions I'm not a fan of they don't matter The 10,000 foot view matters.

I'm not using those words. I said marriage is not about your happiness. That's the title of this. You said, you know how I feel about emotions and feelings. They're fleeting. They don't matter. Like, it's about the deeper thing. Okay.

If I said I don't matter, maybe, maybe I did. I don't feel that way. My problem to your point is I do tend to like when I'm in bad season. to think, hey, this, I'm going to be okay at some point. So this is, this doesn't really matter. You know what I'm saying? And that's where I disagree. Because it matters.

It matters to the storyline of where you are and how to support each other in a marriage to find fulfillment and to find joy, a byproduct of that is happiness. So though the goal of marriage is not to just, always be happy because you're going to go through it. I do think a goal of a marriage is to see your spouse where they are in any given moment so that you can help them get back to it. No, no, no. Yeah. Sean, we really agree on this. I don't think we do. You're saying the goal of a marriage is not happiness is to be there for your spouse, which is what I'm saying.

but like the side effect of that is happiness i'm not there to say i gotta make you happy i gotta make you happy i gotta make happy i'm like that's if i'm just ruminating on sean's not happy oh my gosh she's she's not happy in my timeline that i'm leaning on is like the moment but like right now you know you're not happy but i'm like no this is an important conversation so i'm gonna be here present with you fully but that doesn't make sense to what you said earlier about emotions and pandering to feelings doesn't matter because, like, you, it goes back to what I was saying when we talk about, like,

it's hard for me to ask you what's going, what's happening right now. Because, like, if you feel off. Yeah, because I always think it will be okay. Exactly. Right. But that's not fair to a marriage and understanding and getting to know your spouse more.

No, point second. I probably over index on this, like. And I think that's where there's a disconnect in you, And I agree. It's not about happiness. It's about fulfillment and joy. We do agree.

I know. Okay. We do. But getting there, we are on vastly different size. Okay. Because you think we'll just be there. Because if you aren't dissecting it into a day-to-day chore of acknowledgement and active work to get back to joy and happiness, you think in the moment,

my sadness doesn't matter because it's fleeting it does matter because if you aren't actively acknowledging it and working as a couple and as a marriage to get back to joy to get back to happiness then the rumination and the issues will always be there so then you won't find joy in fulfillment if you aren't meeting each other exactly where you are in a moment to try to work through it. No, no. I agree with everything you said, except, so I agree, we should meet together as a couple and work together. I think, though, the path does not lead to joy and fulfillment. Like, that's not the path that we're on, in my mind. You're saying, we've got to get together so that we can get back to happiness, and that's the path we're trying to rediscover whenever we don't

have it. I'm saying the path is, is the getting back together. Like, that is the whole thing. It's not, no, no, it's not happiness. It is, it is like the connection and it is the. You're going against what you're, what you were saying. If it is about the connection and getting back together, then the roller coaster of emotions matter. Because you can't get back together and connect and try to get on the same page without acknowledging where you're at. So I think I disagree. I think I disagree. So if I were to ask you, why are you sad today? You're like, it doesn't matter because I know I'm not going to be sad in a week, so it's not even worth the conversation. Here's how I view emotions. Oh, I am like, I'm an audience member.

to, huh, this conversation is not going how I thought it would be. Okay. I'm not like all up in my head about it. You know, I'm not freaking out. I'm not living, I'm not riding on that. I'm like, interesting. Okay, why is this not going like I expected it to? How does that make me feel?

Oh, it's like, it's like a little uncomfortable. Okay. Oh, I'm a little like sad maybe. Interesting. Okay. And I think the acknowledgement. of that and understanding that in a spouse is important

I think that's the whole thing I think then you are acknowledging that emotions and feelings do matter I think I've said that from the beginning you have not as you could tell there's a lot of

nuance I think this is great I think people are going to listen to this and be like whoa whoa what which I don't know maybe I mean I don't know how much I am contradicting myself I do know. It is hard for me to talk about feelings in a fully self-aware manner, and I get confused with it. That's why, like, when you do ask me, how are you?

I'm like, what word do I say? I don't know. I'm like, fine. I just think it's because we read this book, Problem of Pain, as you're thinking about that by C.S. Lewis. And he uses this analogy of, like, pain is a fort right and there can be a flag of goodness still planted in that fort right there's another game going on besides just that fork it's it is a another added layer of

reality okay so i'm saying the feelings are the level one thing pretty foundational and it is core to the human experience. But regardless, what is the goodness that can be present through the pain, through the joy? What's the goodness? And I think my thought on this is marriage doesn't have to come with being happy every single day. Okay. No. You know, we agree on this. We've said this. But it should be a goal. It should be a goal to be a light and not to be a darkness and to feel.

But what does that mean? I'm saying, I want to please you. I want to honor you. That doesn't always mean make you happy. Honoring you, again, that's like. You get so stuck in that word, which I think is interesting. Happiness is like a level one thing. It's like a, that's the fleeting.

Like, wow. Holy crap. Are we happy? We're sad? We pissed? It is. However, however, on, I think if you're looking at a goal of a marriage, like what you want to end at, at the end of the week, the month, the year, a lifetime, it is joy, fulfillment. I think some people would say safety. Or different things. I think. But what I'm saying is the happiness can come from like. Can you feel fulfilled in a marriage without feeling joy?

Because if you truly are working to like know. Which comes first? What? The fulfillment or the joy. Which is the first milestone in the journey? I think they go hand in hand Because if you're only wanting to feel safe I don't think that's to be fully known and fully loved

Because if you're fully known and fully loved You're experiencing life on a different level of Anyways, whatever the goal is If you're dissecting that into tasks On a daily basis to achieve it the more I know you about how you operate and how you think and how you feel

the more I can help support you to get you out of a funk to find fulfillment and to find joy which is if that's not if that's not the goal what's your goal in life?

To feel blah? No. To feel just like middle? Let me be clear. Let me state this in a succinct manner. I believe the goal of a marriage is to come as close as you possibly can in the human experience to be fully known and fully loved. Okay. I think that's what we're all desiring and hopeful in many different relationships in different ways, but most so.

marriage. Okay. Biblically speaking, Andrew, in the in the Bible, there are feelings and emotions attached to Jesus. Yes. How does Jesus make people feel? Not always good. I know. Or happy. But when they come the closest to being like Jesus, they feel what? Loved. Okay. And a byproduct of love. A hundred percent is joy and happiness. No, this is my whole point. The main thing, though, I think you get, I think we get out of whack and things go awry when I say happiness is my core thing, my core objective. I think if you start there with that being the thing, the goal, it gets all messed up.

I agree. Okay. But you're not acknowledging how to get there. Because if you don't acknowledge that like talk about trying, okay, if you want to feel fully known and fully love, the closest you can possibly be in the human experience, then you need to know on. on a daily basis, what trajectory you are on. Are you headed to be more loved and more known? Or are you headed to be not known and not loved? And if you are trying to give people actionable items

on a daily basis to reach that, that would be a, let's start with self-reflection of where you're at. What path are you on? And I think the individual daily check-in, like one by itself does not matter. I think... But every day matters. I agree with that. But you see, like, there can be anomalies where you're like, okay, hey, I'm tired today.

For sure. And that's important to acknowledge. Yeah, but it's not the most important thing. It doesn't need to be consuming. Okay. But acknowledgement. of oh here's a data point for Andrew

when Sean is tired it can lead her to jump on a different path that's important to know if you want to be fully known and fully loved you have to understand the complexities

of who you're dealing with you can't just approach every day like oh today's bad day whatever brush it off it'll be better tomorrow no you got to work through that you brought up jesus and i'm just thinking of the verse that says husband loves your wives like jesus love the church i'm thinking about okay what did he do a lot of it was sacrifice and also he fully knew you yes do you think he doesn't care about a sadness on a day this is no I welcome this I do need more of that mindset yes I do need more of the sharing that but it's still not about that it is it's super fascinating okay okay okay help us sort this out we're gonna be going on back and forth like this for two hours so let's just talk about the cultural life happiness and let's maybe make it through this episode so I feel like our culture in the books the TV shows, the movies, magazines, headlines, give this idea that if something isn't making you happy, it is not worth pursuing. That is the core tenant that I push against. This could apply to

jobs, your friends, spouses, lifestyle changes. Did gymnastics always make you happy? Like, wow, did your coach always make you happy? No, that doesn't mean you run away from it. In that individual moment which is why I'm saying you don't you don't tie your fate to the one feeling but it's worth acknowledging yes and in a pattern asks for a self-reflective question of what is the purpose here okay so purpose is different than happiness though anyway with marriage it's not designed for our happiness I would argue and it does take work so in a lot of ways this is opposite of what the culture says, okay? This is what I'm saying?

So if marriage is not about happiness, what is it about? I think it's, I think it is that being fully known and fully loved, other people, like Gary Thomas, says that marriage isn't here

to make you happy, it's here to make you holy, which I think is also associated with being fully known and fully loved. But actually, let me just dive into that quote. So I think that implies that happiness is fleeting and not always the best representation of what is worth pursuing. I think that marriage is helping us grow in holiness rather than just making us happy.

And so if I'm able to know you fully and love you, then I'm, there's this element of like change baked in in some ways, sanctification, you could say. but marriage can deepen our relationship with others and with God through that where it's like this mirror that you have to confront because of the depth of knowledge of each other so marriage is defined to mature us refine us and grow us

other purposes and benefits of marriage you're just going to steam roll through this yeah teamwork I think I appreciate that about our marriage I love that having the we mentality again

this is why if I say this marriage isn't making me happy and I need to be happy bro you're freaking missing out on the teamwork and the growth I agree but the teamwork is waking up as an individual and saying it is my job to support the we yes

and if one of us we ain't having a good day it's important for me to support we 100% support yeah i like that okay refinement of character okay ladies let's get real when's the last time you put a push-up bra on andrew never if i'm being honest it's been a long time after three babies i think one of the last things i wanted to ever buy again was a push-up bra the thought of the underwire and the extra padding made me cringe but I'm not going to lie, guys. Skims has done it again. They sent me their version of a pushup bra and I cannot believe I'm saying this, but I'm sold. The Skim's pushup bra is legitimately the only

pushup bra I will ever give a chance to and although I probably won't be wearing it daily running around the house with the kids, that's what their amazing t-shirt bras are for. It's nice to know I have a push-up bra that's the perfect fit, super soft and honestly really flattering. Instead of having a ton of padding to give you the unnatural lift that a lot of bras have, let's Let's just say the Skims bra mimics the natural shape of your body. Free kids, you know what I mean. And it lifts up the ladies if you catch my drift. It makes me laugh that I'm even talking about this because I told my friend the other day,

I hadn't worn a pusher bra on years. And now I genuinely love this one. Shop the Skims, Ultimate Brow Collection, and more at skims.com. And skim stores. After you place your order, be sure to let them know I sent you, select podcast in the survey, and be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. when things don't go away in marriage we can choose to either put up walls or lean into the problem and fix it I also think there's this like cat and mouse game that starts happening well I'm not happy

well I'm not happy well I'm not happy and then nobody's happy because you lose the element of humility that that is necessary to approach the process of getting to fully know someone it's super interesting how we how we see these words differently because you're side eyeing me right now and I actually think I think we're pretty much on the same page I just think

I think there is a beauty in getting to know someone through the roller coaster and you're saying the roller coaster doesn't matter because it's something way deeper and bigger so the variables of the day in and day out don't affect that and I think the variables of the day in and day out compound to give you the result and if you're not identifying the little variables every day you're going to wind up five years from now unhappy I think if you're only concerned on the other side of the spectrum with the little variables on the day-to-day,

you will also, in five years, end up unhappy because you're chasing this ethereal thing of happiness. So I'm saying, what's the right thing to chase that ultimately does have a side effect of that? Anyway, there's also this refinement of character, sorry, refinement of lifestyle. And so before marriage, you only take yourself into account. In marriage, there's always another person to sacrifice for

and take into consideration. You don't get to live the same lifestyle once you have a family, but that doesn't mean that your freedom is gone. I think it just changes your definition of freedom. We were talking about this the other night, where it's like, again, like, if there are secondary qualities, I think something like freedom or happiness,

that come as a result of pursuing primary qualities. Marriage comes with compromising on ideas. usually when you have a team addressing a problem having two perspectives on something helps take out solutions that might be awful and detrimental to progress or health and so you have this like you have this more well-rounded perspective which is amazing we talk about how in the story of Adam and Eve Eve was gifted to Adam as like a help meet is what the word is, which one interpretation of that is beneficial adversary. So it's like, okay, hey, we see this differently, but it's to our benefit to compromise

on this idea. And you get to learn how to resolve conflicts. As you can see, we're doing good here. We're doing great. Our conflict resolution. But just because something is hard does not mean that it's failing. Just because there is conflict doesn't mean that it's, you need to run from it. and if I feel like learning to identify your unhealthy communication patterns like you've helped me do

same and become more self-aware can actually impact other areas of your life also emotional support um so in those times when your emotions are fluctuating having a committed partner in marriage means that you have a steady source of support, very important, very important. Marriage helps build a legacy and something bigger than yourself, pursuing a shared mission and vision that extends beyond yourself. And ultimately, I think marriage is a love unlike any other relationship. So we talk about this a lot, but the contractual side of marriage is really compelling in the sense that there's the covenant side actually we don't do covenants anymore right that's like such an antiquated idea there's a concept in marriage that it is a covenant and it's like

there's a there's a different depth when you're talking covenant than just like a promise or even a vow it's like wow this is the holiest of relationships and i think that sometimes short-term discomfort in that process helps lead to a long-term payoff and it's it's a more sacrificial type of love sometimes you have to sacrifice your happiness which is why I think is important to say marriage is not about your happiness and we both agree with that okay are we in a better place now we haven't been in a bad place I mean I don't Do we see this with more light? I just don't think.

I think we're saying the same thing. We want the end result. We agree with the end result. It's not about momentary happiness. But actionable items require, when you were in football and you guys, like if your team wasn't winning, what would you do?

You would dissect everything about what had happened. every play every move every decision not all the time sometimes would be like hey that one didn't go our way we're going to keep on going

and we know that if we keep showing up it's going to be okay like that one was a fluke so you're not trying to work as a team a little bit so we would do half time restrategizing

and then we would plan ahead for the next team after that game right so it's like based off what we learned but we're not doing it's not beholden

or like... No, I know but there's just a little I think you're trying to just make your point because like in order to learn football you have to learn plays you have to learn positions you have to learn to like

the quarterback has to read his players and there's so much detail that goes into the end result So I think you are focusing way too much on the end result and not the actionable daily items that get you there. And I think with all of this, all of this is like actionable daily things where you have to say...

Happiness is not an actionable daily thing. So one of my notes here is love is a choice, it's not just a feeling. Love is not about me, it's about the marriage, right? And it's about the commitment. that is a like separate thing happiness is not an actionable daily thing no i know it happiness comes as a result of me making the choice of loving you and pressing in and being present you know what i'm saying that's i don't know it's there's such a subtle difference here in understanding this and i

have grown to empathize more with your hey part of being fully known is knowing where the other person's at, yes. But also, as I've grown to know myself, I'm like, how can you and I become closer within our marriage if we don't understand how each other thinks more and reacts more? And, like, how can we be fully known without sharing that? I don't think it's all about the animal instinct.

It's like we're freaking, I think feelings are so instinctual. and so lizard brainy you know as they say where you're like okay food happy sweet sugar happy feel good

you know there is another level of awareness of like hey that's sugar keep tapping into that no happy no more But like if you, if I keep doing something as a spouse, that makes you not happy, that's important to know.

Actually. Because that, that's valid. But, and I think, I think the thing that I'm having an hard time with is invalidating emotions, invalidating feelings does not end in fulfillment and joy. And to be fully known and to be fully loved. That's disrespect. and that's saying it doesn't matter to me what you feel

because if we just push through this at the end of the day I'm going to know you better and love you better and there's no way to get there without understanding someone I think I just had the realization which is a beautiful thing about you that is different than a lot of people probably myself included My last note here was marriage teaches you more about being selfless than you ever wanted to know.

And I think as we've been talking through this, I've been using the tense of marriage is not about my happiness, the one speaking. You've been addressing all of this as like, actually, from Sean's perspective, marriage is about Andrew's happiness. And from my perspective, marriage is about Sean's happiness. And that's where I think from day one, date five, it was like, holy crap, okay, you just aren't going to care about anything I feel? Because like it should be my job as a spouse to wake up and be like, I care so deeply about you

that I want to know what makes you sad so I can support you to find fulfillment. So I can love you more and to hear so blatantly over and over again, It's not my job to wake up and feel that for you. Like, nah. Okay. That's what is hard.

And that's where I'm like, I don't think that's a supportive union to, actionably, if you're dissecting it. Here's, my hesitation is when people say marriage is about my happiness and my personal fulfillment. I think that's the slightly perverted skew of this. I think it's really beautiful that you view marriage is about my happiness. Does that make sense? And I think marriages is really wonderfully unlocked. Not the purpose, and this is not the main goal, but when both parties do aspire to serve the other person

and to be selfless towards the other person, I would still say not to serve their happiness. but do you see the difference there it would be toxic to say you're not making me happy for sure your your difference is you're saying i'm not making Andrew happy yeah so that's something i need to work on but i also think it can be over indexed anyway this is interesting please let us know If someone helps sort us all this out, please. I would love to know your thoughts on this is how all of our debates go. I don't know if we just talked in circles or not, but I feel like I had a couple new insights there.

So thank you. Wow, what a truth that was. All right, you're ready for the next episode? Yes. Do check out that interview we did with the Quardles. It was really delightful. Enjoyed getting to know that couple that came here and we had an hour and a half long conversation. Yes.

If you made it this far, please subscribe to the show, leave the comment, letting us know your thoughts. You should bring in a marriage, like a counselor, to do this whole thing again. Yeah, or just someone to like interpret what we're saying. Exactly. That would be most helpful. Anyway, that's all we have. I'm Andrew. I'm Sean.

We'll see you next time.