Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 261 | Reacting to Relationship Headlines

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Not sure how to even sum up this episode but let’s just say we covered A LOT of different relationship topics from the current “dating recession” and dating headlines to the draw of being a DINK (Dual Income With No Kids). This was an interesting one where Andrew and I got to give our takes on each of these topics and it was fun to hear each other’s perspectives! What do you think about these topics? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! Love you guys! Shawn and Andrew Get 15% off Branch Basics with the code EASTFAM at https://branchbasics.com/EASTFAM #branchbasicspod #ad Want the best pillow ever? Go to https://LagoonSleep.com/EASTFAM and take their awesome 2 minute sleep quiz to find your match. Use code EASTFAM for 15% off first purchase Beam Kids is now available online at https://www.shopbeam.com/COUPLETHINGS Take advantage of our exclusive discount of up to 40% off using code COUPLETHINGS Follow our podcast Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/shawnandandrewpods/ Subscribe to our newsletter ▶ https://www.familymade.com/newsletter Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Shop My LTK Page ▶ https://www.shopltk.com/explore/shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. We're back to relationship headlines, part two. That's right. If you miss part one, we're giving our take on some relationship topic, some headlines, some kind of recent events. Specifically, like, the recession as it pertains to dating. And the dual income, no kids trend.

And is romance dead? So we made it through exactly a quarter of the headlines that we were supposed to. to and we're going to resume this as the same topic finishing out our thoughts if you miss part one we'll link that down below go check it out but uh it is interesting the long and short of what we covered the first time around is that there seems to be less of an appetite yeah at least for the past two decades for romance relationships including sex and a lot more pressure yes a lot more pressure on people to be a very specific thing and to like it's either success or failure and the stories that we're being served up on social media and media are all negative so it's not really

like super encouraging for people to go down that route of dating or marriage or family we're exploring these topics as well with you so if we have awkward pauses or ums it's because uh we're just trying to process this as well but let us know your thoughts if you you are processing it because we love opinions and we love different perspectives and we find it fascinating. So, let's talk about the reasons that Gen Z is dating less. Gen Z are people born between 1995 and 2012. Are you a Jin Zer? Me?

Yes. No. Well, we are millennials. We are. We're old. 91 and 92 birthdays. Yeah. But half of Gen Z men report that they play video games daily.

often with their friends, which leads to less need for social interaction. Don't get me started. Don't get me started. No, actually, let's get started on this. I very much so disagree with the majority of video games out there. Okay, fine. There have been studies done that for males, video games actually do fill a social gap and can be positive. what games exactly that entails

it's kind of beauties and the eye of beholder but there can be social positive social derivatives of playing video games I know however if this statistic is saying that these Gen Z men are reporting they're playing video games daily that's leading less

it's like leading to less outside social interaction I don't think that's healthy I'm just not a scorch-earth anti-video game guy I don't know why I am I know you are I know I really dislike it I almost H-word it

but just because it's not a personal interest of yours doesn't mean it can't be a personal interest or hobby of other people and it be healthy I think everything in moderation but I do think there's a lot to it of even having the social interaction I agree I agree you can be playing a video game and you can be communicating with your friends who are across the world or across the country

or next door or whatever that could be fun like that can be a social interaction however if that is one of the reasons that you aren't out pursuing a wife that you might be looked like if that's on your list of things to do like find a wife or find a spouse or find a partner and you're choosing your video games as your social interaction and that's causing you to not do that that that's is not okay I agree with that but just understand there's a range of people's approach to video games and how much they play it so also it's interesting coming from the person who has a video game herself you have a video game yeah kind of anti video games fascinating uh you just had to throw that in I did but it is interesting you

look at a guy like Steve Wozniak who co-founded Apple we've had the chance to meet him he is anti screens like that guy reads the newspaper doesn't read news off his phone he didn't even he might I don't even know if he has an Apple Apple phone, the thing that he created. Carry on. Yeah. So one side effect of video games may be that too many teens watch online imitations of life experiences instead of having their own. More teens are content watching from the sidelines rather than becoming active participants in their own lives. There's growing

evidence that Gen Z women are more suspicious of marriage than their parents. That's interesting. Wait, those are two very different things. Yes. You skimmed over the first one. I did. I was just reading quotes. The teens watching from the sidelines is an issue. Okay, yes.

On to the next. Evidence that Gen Z women are suspicious of marriage, more suspicious of marriage than their parents. I feel like there's a lot of negative PR around marriage. So maybe that accounts for it. but surveys show that young people put marriage and serious relationships on the backburner, which could explain why research from UCLA finds that young adults, age 18 to 24, want to see less sex and romance in their television shows and movies.

Fascinating. They don't even want to see it. Well, I don't want to see sex. But the romance side of things, like the stories of love or the... Interesting. I wonder why. Yeah. Educational attainment and professional priorities. supersede interest in establishing romantic relationships.

I think kind of some of it's a bummer. What do you think? Do you ever feel like you prioritized professional priorities over romantic relationships? Now? Ever. For sure. How did that work out?

I didn't have boyfriends or serious relationships. I'm just here. here to make conversation. It's fascinating because you prioritizing that instead of relationships, prioritizing gymnastics specifically, led to extraordinary outcomes, which I think is what people get enticed by. Like, hey, if I want to be rich, I have to just be obsessive about being rich.

And then the relationships will come later, which that doesn't always happen. You know, we talked about this last time. the thing you are in control of is the quality of your relationships with the people around you whether it be your family your neighbors whatever even going out to search for a partner you're not in in control of the success that you have or if you want a gold medal or if you become rich i also think it's a little bit different in my situation like i don't i don't think my situation actually feeds the statistic because by the time i was done i was 16 and then when

I went into the work fields, I actually did the opposite. I quit working to a certain extent and sacrificed a lot of my business to work on the family side of life. And I'm not even talking to kids. I'm talking about pursuing you and like having working to find a spouse. Sean legitimately quit where you were you were like very much in the limelight you just set all that aside to move to Nashville so that we could start dating yeah thank you for that but I think the whole statistical part about people are putting education and professional priorities ahead of relationships I don't like disagree with that fully but I don't think you have to choose education and business

over romance for it to work that makes sense like you don't have to you can have all of that you can get an education and have a romantic relationship and you can have a profession but I do think learning early on within that world how to prioritize and make room for all of it is important. I think the scorched earth mentality that our society has right now of I'm just going to push all that to the back burner and I'm going to like, I have to be ride or die to profession

to be successful and become rich before I ever find a partner is false. Well, the idea of having a plan B is kind of frowned upon. They're like, hey, you should go all in on certain things, which, that's kind of a, are we writing a book about that commitment? No, it's kind of like you can maybe have multiple irons in the fire that make the collective fire hotter. And you can have it all. You can have it all, but I do think at the end of the day, if you are left with only one thing, what is it that you want? And I think if you can answer that question, it'd be business, then yeah.

There's a cost of that, though. For sure. But like... And if you want family over everything else, there's a cost to that. I'm just saying, like, at the end of the day, I don't care if you're 18, 25, 35, 65. Like, what... If you can only choose one, what is it that you want? and you should probably slightly put that more

as a priority than anything else even if you're trying to be a billionaire you should still try to like prioritize that a little bit which why do you need to be a billionaire I think I bring up your story because it is it is the extraordinary results like a bigger house or the biggest house or

the next biggest award or the fancy career title that people strive to have and so like oftentimes outside of gymnastics when you can't be 16 to achieve career success

they are doing what you did at a young age to achieve extraordinary results and I just know from my experience and my personal opinion this is because

in my personal opinion even at 16 I would have told you if I could only choose one thing in life at the very end of the day, it was going to be a family. Like, that would have been my priority over anything. But all I can remember is, like, having all of these opportunities and traveling the world and doing all these things and seeing so many people in the same situation, just like generations ahead of me.

That's what I was surrounded by, starting from 13. Like, uber successful people who are so lonely. And I literally got to witness that as a kid growing up. Just people grinding to have more and more and more. And they just weren't like happy people. So defining enough helps. Yeah. Okay, next section here.

Is there a dating recession overall? In short, yes, according to research. The sources we're citing here are the American Survey Center and Pew Research, but in 1980, just 6% of 40-year-olds had never been married. And in 2021, this bumped up to 25% of 40-year-olds had never been married. Four in 10 young men report having neither hooked up nor dated as undergraduates. Most single women believe they are happier than married women, but say married men are happier than their single counterparts.

Interesting. Most single men, 56%, and single women, 54%, feel pessimistic about finding a partner they would be happy with. 62% of Americans say dating is more difficult today than it was a decade ago. I agree with that. That's crazy, though, because how would that be with all these dating apps and so much access? It's crazy. There's too much access. That's why.

It's paradoxical. It's really fascinating. I've talked about this. I could not imagine dating today because the only information you and I had on each other pretty much before our first date was I met your older brother at an event like face to face. He talked to me for a little bit. He talked to you for a little bit, you know, and it was like, I think you guys should meet. And we go out on a limb and you go into this thing blind, learning about each other.

face to face asking questions, reading tones, reading body language, figuring each other out. Now, with all these dating apps, you're not even giving people a chance. You either look at a picture and swipe and say no, or you learn every possible thing about them. Their hobbies, their interests, their resumes, their family, every single thing they've posted on Instagram or social media you learn every single thing there is to know before you ever go on a first date so you've already formed a thought and formed an expectation and formed a standard and if they don't live up to it goodbye and and i feel like what's the mr psychiatrist what's the thing psychologist psychologist psychologist what i say psychiatrist all right what's the ism

of like you have so many options that you can't choose one. Paradox of choice. Yeah. If you live in a world of online dating, you can choose from anybody in the world. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's many studies on that, which is fascinating of when you have fewer options, you're more satisfied with the option that you end up with. Yeah, yeah, you're more sad.

You make the choice quicker and you're more satisfied with that option. But with all these, like, online dating apps and stuff, if you're, if you're not just, like, looking in your state, because you're like, oh, we could move, you're not just looking in our country. Like, when would you ever swipe and feel like that is the best option in the entire world for me? Yeah, when I haven't explored the whole world, then I can. you're saying that dating is the process of learning how to be curious about someone else and when the internet provides all the information on someone else you don't need to be curious and thus that joyful process that's very important in having a meaningful relationship gets zapped if you're trying to find someone to coexist with for the rest of your life

I don't think starting that online is a good way to go. Another statistic I'm moving on that struck me was the most single women believe they are happier than married women. Most single women believe they're happier than married women. We've talked about the divorce rates in gay male relationships is, somewhere in the 20 to 30%. And heterosexual relationships, the divorce rate is about 50%. And then in gay lesbian couples, it's like 70 or 80%. Meaning there is almost more of a desire for independence from women,

which makes the male position really fragile and independent, even though it's fragile and dependent, even though it's often positioned as inverted of that. saying so a single women think they're happier than married women like I don't need that which is kind of true it's kind of true but I also think that could play into how married women are being portrayed in the media this goes back to what I was arguing in part one which is I do think for the most part as an American the story the overarching story storylines we're seeing that algorithms are choosing to show are negative.

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even though you could be more successful independent and there's definitely less hassle I'm speaking from my position is that really what you want which goes back to your earlier point of what do you want the most do you want to have the most amount of comfort or success or least amount of hassle like relationships inherently are full of friction so anyway shall we walk through some of the reasons

for the dating recession? Yeah. Okay so first there's this grass is always greener mentality study said that roughly 24% of single men and 15% of single women believe that most or all women would leave their current partner for someone who was wealthier and more attractive.

A majority, 56% to be exact, of Americans who are not married, say they worry more about ending up with the wrong partner than they do about not finding someone to build a life with. Someone, we saw a comment the other day, you make me think, it was like really an endearing comment about us. You make me think that love is somewhere out there for me. And I thought, no, dude, love is in here. it's in you like it's your choice it's not some mystical

treasure hunt kind of you know what I'm saying well and I think it's very flattering when people are like oh

if only I could go out and find what you guys have and I want to be cautious going down this route but we suffer together we suffer because of each other

but not even that but do you know how easily we could have ended up as part of a statistic. We still could, honestly. Yeah, but like if either of us chose not to fight for it or if I woke up and started to say, you know what, did I choose right? And like, am I happy?

And, like, if we both start doing that and we don't continue to, like, actively work for it, yeah. Like, if you, if you, but, We have chosen within our marriage when we got married to say, you know what, I'm turning off other options. That's not a thing. You burn the boats.

And but if you live with the grass is always greener mentality, heck yeah. I can see why marriage wouldn't work. So my pushback against the grass is always greener mentality is make your freaking yard greener. Make it the greenest. Make your grass the greenest, dude. And I'm not saying that there aren't marriages and aren't like,

relationships out there that truly aren't compatible. Like, I believe there are people who are not compatible. However, I also believe there are probably a lot of people in the world that you could get married to and have a beautiful life with. You know?

Because you put your blinders on, you put your head down, you burn the boats, you say, okay, we got stuff we need to figure out. And just as much with you as with anybody else. And so let's do it. Why do arranged marriages sometimes become the most wonderful? It's fascinating. Yeah.

Okay. Second, cultural trends. Cultural trends like dating yourself first have gained in popularity. And after the last few elections, people have very strong political opinions that are deal breakers for dating other people. And that's happening more than ever. People used to be more likely to date someone with a different political affiliation. than them until now. I mean, we know people that bring up politics on the first date.

I just feel like, what are we doing? You know, this, again, there's a lot of things are playing to this. Like, if you're meeting someone that your parents introduce you to or is in your local community, a lot of that kind of gets filtered and sorted out inherently, you know? so I'm kind of a fan of date local you know yeah but also

what are we doing I am beating it at a horse but it's like it's just the idea that like the social network like the algorithms are winning if they're polarizing people that much so much so that you can't even go on a date with someone because they might have a differing opinion than yours

then like it's working does that make sense yeah check your heart too and it's also like one of our friends who brings up the political question on the very first date and he's just like absolutely not I want to be like are you not even curious as to why ask why yeah hear the story yeah it's just okay next so we have grass is always greener mentality cultural trends next is changing societal norms.

Relationship goals have become less clear and a greater potential source of disagreement. People are breaking up over defining their relationships. I want to get married, but you don't, et cetera. People are more open to different types of relationships now than they have been in the past. And casual dating is on the rise

with a lack of marriage commitment. Interesting. I guess, I mean, we really defined our outcome from the get-go. I was looking for her husband Yeah, we said that And then that That really changed the whole process for us

And to be clear, we didn't really say that But we are both like, you know what? I'm going to be me and you're going to be you And we're going to like try as hard as we can But if this doesn't work, it doesn't work Yeah, like we're in this for a reason There's also stylistic ways to make that come across A less abrasive like yeah

Dating to me is like a serious thing Yeah, I take this if this isn't casual I don't approach this Not just doing this for fun Yeah Right which it has certain implications So just know you don't have to come out guns blazing With all these like really sharp words like

Marriage from the first day People are more open to different types of relationships Now than they have been in the past I'm like in theory in favor of that But also Having had three kids with the theoretical love of my life and realizing how much

that that can tax the relationship, there is benefit to the cost of separation in a marriage. And it's just like a really burdensome process, which makes you not want to separate, which makes you stick in the game. Which makes marriage beneficial sometimes to be like, we did this thing. Yeah, and if you're going to have kids

and grow the family in that sense, I think marriage is a compelling route. Yeah. Next, dating apps don't feel safe anymore. Fewer than four and ten single women believe that dating apps are a safe way to meet people. A 23 point drop since 2019. Women don't feel safe to trust meeting up with a stranger or are afraid of getting taken advantage of or catfished. That happens more than you think.

The catfish thing, we know several people who have been to catfish. Oh, yeah. But this goes back to what I was saying. I just don't think dating apps are great. Date local. Let's make it a trend. And it's just like stop thinking that across the world there's going to be a better option. Find someone that makes you laugh.

See if you can figure it out. I think this ties back to the career side of the conversation, defining what enough is. Yeah. Do I need the hottest? chick or do I need the funniest chick or the most successful chick or do I need whatever the most thing is no you probably just need a wife but that also plays into social media and what it said where like teens are living the lives out of other people if I'm actively looking to date local and find someone but I'm watching these Instagram famous people with their

million dollar rings and then that literally is putting the the storyline in my head of like oh that's what I have to go find yeah that's crazy find a wife there's people that you want to look at online and there's people that you want to take home to mom you know different interesting did that come across weird I mean I'm just workshop in here there's people I want to look at online but there's one person I want to just take on to mom I think I'll talk about that one later. Okay, all right. Number four.

Dinks. Let's talk about dinks. Dinks means dual income, no kids. All right, here's the deal. Nobody likes to wake up not feeling their best and not ready to take on the day. So good morning, start with optimal sleep, and lagoon pillows are made just for that. You guys, you should know by now how obsessed we are with these pillows. They have changed the game for us.

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I'm refreshed and pain-free thanks to my Lagoon pillow. Go to LagoonSleep.com slash E-Fam and take their awesome two-minute sleep quiz to find your match. Use code E-SPAM for 15% off, your first order. We do want to be clear that this isn't talking about people who are unable to have children. This is specifically people who do not desire to have kids, and there's nothing wrong. with that if you do we just think it's interesting to look at the facts about this and the reasoning behind it since we are not dinks ourselves um just like yeah what are the trends of why people make this stylistic yeah i think all of this we need to preface we're not out here

just slinging hot takes on different people's styles it's more interesting uh we're speaking of a place of feeling fulfilled and where our life has taken us and obviously there's frustrations and imperfections with that and more commenting on these people who I think are largely speaking from place of I don't feel fulfilled or meaningful in life so it's us giving I don't know commentary on that like hey we feel some type of meaning you want to try this thing out yeah go ahead I don't know what to think about this in the sense of like dual income no kids

so a dink is two people who don't plan to have kids but a dink who plans to become a parent is called a dinky or dual income no kids yet. Yet. But like and if you're single you'd be a sink

single income no kids or a sinky single income no kids yet so why are we putting names to everything i kind of like i like sinky to be honest i do what why do we have to put a name to literally everything no because people buy into the lifestyle that's why like i know but like it's like saying marriage to me a dinky you're literally two people who have jobs who just don't have kids yet? They're choosing that actively. They're identifying as dinks. I was talking about dinkies.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dinky does feel. So I'm literally like, you're just two people who have jobs. You don't have kids yet. A dink, like, yeah. Great. If you're finding fulfillment and just being with your person, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Okay.

But that also doesn't play into a dating recession or like is romance dead that's actually feeding it, you know, like people are looking for someone to have, to share life with. Yeah, so that's true. So they have chosen to not partake in the dating recess. They're not a part of that since they say. But demographic trends. So the prevalence of dink households has been on the rise. In 2024, 43% of American households were childless, reflecting a significant demographic shift according to Forbes.

The U.S. Census Bureau data shows that childless households are on the rise with the percentage potentially approaching 50% in the coming years. This trend is attributed to various factors, including the economy, personal preferences, and societal changes. There is a population crisis on the horizon here, where we're not meeting the replacement threshold for children. So I think that's more why I wanted to talk about this, because, like, you know, have kids so we can all prosper.

Or, like, I don't know what happens when the population collapses, but from what I've seen, it doesn't seem good. Yeah. So the economic impact of a dink. Dink households often have higher incomes compared to families with children. The median net worth of a couple with no children was around $399,000. Wow, really? In 2002, over $100,000 more than it was in 2019 and around $150,000 more than that of couples with children.

So they're saying couples with children make around $250,000. Couples without make just around $400,000. 88% of Dink's direct their income toward enriching experiences and self-development. The spending power positions dinks as a key audience for luxury brands, financial services, and quality of life upgrades. Okay. Direct income toward enriching experiences. That's where I am drawn towards. Or it's like children are enriching.

They can be. If you're actively choosing not to have kids, then you're choosing a different lifestyle that can be more like just as enriching for you, you know. Yeah. but again this doesn't play into a dating recession this actually is the opposite like people are trying to find partners to travel with and to have like enriching lives with how about this correlation with the dating recession the decision to remain child free is often influenced by a desire to keep personal freedom. I think there's overlap there.

Yeah. I think that's the me movement of like, I want more, I want more time for me. I want, you know. And having kids is a very self-list thing, and that never goes away. But like, it can also be very, very fulfilling. Psychologists have explored the motivations

behind the Dink lifestyle, identifying factors such as prioritizing, pleasure and healthy selfishness as key drivers. Fascinating. I mean, I think, yeah, there's a lot of good ways to live a good life. I guess I would speak to the people who are fearful of kids or fearful of the loss of freedom or fearful of that hampering career success. and it's like I think your perspective changes your definition of success changes

and you don't know what's on the other side of the fence but parents will talk about children as a fulfilling experience so again I guess I'm just to the people who aren't fulfilled I'm not saying go have kids I'm saying if you're stable you're willing you're able but you're fearful I don't know I would start with a spouse yeah

yeah I don't even know how to sum up this episode yeah what do you think about this I don't know I just think I think life is better shared with someone my personal opinion is that that's a romantic someone

that I marry and I start a family with personally. A bunch of little some ones that you can hang out with. Do you like the current events type episodes? I do.

They make me think. It was a lot of stats. I feel like I was ripping through stats there. So apologies for that. Tell us what you think on all of this. I don't know what to think. Yeah.

Again, just want to reiterate we're not criticizing styles more commentary on that but thank you for listening if you made it this far please subscribe to the show and give it a rating and we'll see you next week publish every week every Wednesday

we'll do interviews twice a month on Thursday and we love doing this so we'll see you next time I'm Andrew I'm Sean out