Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 28 Steve + Linda

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

Today in episode 28 of Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew, we chat two very special friends of ours, Linda and Steve Znachko, who share the transformative power of ministry in their lives. Several years ago, after seeing a headline about a ‘Baby Doe’ abandoned in a dumpster, Linda was inspired to start He Knows Your Name Ministry, giving children a name in life – and dignity and honor in death. And Steve, who runs his own business, is a pastor with Mission to Ukraine, which provides support for under-resourced families and youth with disabilities, in addition to crisis pregnancy support. Phew, powerful stuff. We’ll let the Znachkos share the rest of their story from here. If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Last but not least, learn more about Linda, Steve, and their incredible work at the links below. ––– He Knows Your Name Ministry ▶ https://heknowsyourname.org “He Knows Your Name: How One Abandoned Baby Inspired Me to Say Yes to God“ – book ▶ https://www.amazon.com/He-Knows-Your-... Born Close to Heaven: The Short, Beautiful Life of Baby Abigail – article ▶ https://www.indystar.com/story/news/l... Born Close to Heaven: The Short, Beautiful Life of Baby Abigail – video ▶ https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=226... “Marriage Encounter” – YouTube series ▶ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list... Mission to Ukraine, where Steve is pastor ▶ https://www.missiontoukraine.org Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things with Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples and the things they go through. Today we have a real treat. We sit down with Steve and Linda

Zanako. Fun fact, we actually grew up. I grew up in the same part of town as Stephen Linda did. And we kind of intersected a couple times throughout life. But I'd always known about the amazing things and the amazing projects and the amazing missions that Stephen Linda were always up to. But didn't really dive into it deep like we did until this conversation that we had with them. It's one of my favorite interviews we have had yet on this podcast. I felt like I could have talked to them for literally 10 hours. Get ready to learn a lot about relationships, how you can, like things you can work on in your relationship, how you can make your relationship stronger, but also get your Kleenex ready because hearing about their personal charity and

mission called He Knows Your Name is one of the most beautiful programs I have ever. heard about. Just a quick synopsis on He Knows Your Name as an organization. They actually adopt babies who have recently passed away and don't have a name or weren't claimed at death and adopt them to give them names and a proper burial, which I think is so cool and can make such a difference in the legacy of a family. They just gives me chills to talk about. Yes. And they go on to talk about how every baby, even after they have passed away, should know that there is someone on earth who loves them, who's, you know, thinking about them and who misses them. And it's, it's just incredible to hear some of these stories. And I'm really excited for you guys to hear

them as well. So what impresses me about Stephen Linda is they're extremely thoughtful in their relationship. They actually teach a marriage course, which will link down below. Um, but they're both super ambitious people. And they talk about how they support each other in those ambitions with different things like cap salary or structured time and they're just they just go about things so very well and I'm glad we had this conversation I hope you guys find value in it as well excited to hear your feedback before we jump into it though please give the show a rating and subscribe to it on whatever platform you're listening to that really helps us out and can't wait for this one with Stephen Lindel let's just jump into it

Steve and Linda, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. It's really an honor to have you. When I think of couples that I admire and look up to, you are among the first that come to mind, just in as much as you guys think about how you've done marriage, the problems that you've encountered, and I'm really excited to dive in this conversation because I think there's a ton of good wisdom to share. Additionally, you kind of know a little bit about Sean and I and our background. You were at our wedding.

That was so great to come to Nashville and see you get married. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah. But I kind of want to structure the conversation around the marriage encounter topics and the series that you guys hosts that helps younger couples. Yeah. And there are five kind of segments to that. Communication, leaving and cleaving, finances, the physical aspect,

and then the mission and spiritual gift of that. If we could just start with the communication aspect of it, Because I think that's a big question. Very important. Absolutely. And actually, we would say, we were talking about this morning from is the communication is an umbrella over all the other topics.

Everything is about communication. I would say that, Lynn and I would say that the best thing that we've done is that we talk about everything. Yeah. I mean, everything. A lot. And that's even been one of the tension.

At some point is when do we talk about it and when do we leave it go? Because I'm kind of the one to press us into saying, hey, how are we doing? That's me. Yeah, there you go. And we're also finding that it's not driven by gender. There's just usually somebody that is the communicator and there's somebody that just says, can we just back off and let it go for a while? That's Andrew.

Exactly. And I'm like, no, but we didn't finish it. Exactly. It doesn't feel like it's fixed. So we've got to keep going. So even that, and we'll be skipping all over the place in this. But even that, like we inserted language to be able to say, okay, when do we press in and when do we do strategic retreat?

Because like even, Sean, for you to say, it's very frustrating for somebody to want to press in, like to feel that there's something missing. And when your partner says, I don't want to go into that right now, if you leave it there, we found that leaves a lot of tension because it leaves me saying okay we're unfinished and we don't have a resolution and we don't have anything on the grid

but we found out that if we say okay we're going to press into it but Linda says not now then it's up to her to say then but I will come back to you and say we will do it yes that's my responsibility to do that part and that gives me peace to say

okay we haven't just shelved it we've just said this is is not a good time, which I can live with, but you've acknowledged it is something we need to talk about. And just inserting strategic retreat was really good because I felt like I'm chasing, chasing. She's running, running. Well, I was going to say, it doesn't leave it feeling like it's just on you. Right. Because I feel like sometimes when someone will say, just not now, then it's like, I'm the only one who wants to fight, like, fight it out. And we've said in some of our discussions is saying, okay, we, this is another communication thing. Does Just Not Now sometimes

mean never? Yeah, exactly. Because we in Indiana, yeah. Exactly. Well, and really seriously, like, I'm not a big Enneagram person, but I am a nine. And so I hate conflict more than anything in life. And so I have had to really work through that it's not always conflict, which is terrible but it's an opportunity to go deeper and I've had to retrain myself so that I can look at these things and say when I'm saying to Steve and as an introvert too like not now then what I have to say is then when so that I'm giving him what he needs in that and I'm then being responsible to be the one to come back so that it is a partnership because otherwise like he said he's left pursuing pursuing pursuing and I'm just like getting more and more running the other way so it's

developing that trust between us to believe each other when we say not now it's okay and and part of the encounter is to just give ourselves language i mean like we're sharing something that i don't know maybe it took 10 years into our marriage before we discovered and so it's not like we just said oh the first time this happened we go oh here's what we have to do a part of the reason for the marriage encounter is we spent years and years sometimes with frustration sure with not having language for what rut were we in and when we could name it and we had identified it then we had some tools to work out of it so we're just our whole encounter is about opening our journals it's not a biblical study although it's all biblically guided yeah sorry can i can i ask you guys yes because john and i have

discuss this, even the, the core essence of this show is like to discuss and analyze how Sean and I do relationships and analyze how other people do relationships. And we've had the conversation that is it unhealthy to a certain extent to like really dig all the way down deep or revisit some skeletons in the closet? And it's like we've always prided ourselves on like, you know, we call it transparency. That was like in 2013 when we started dating, it was like just full honesty yeah yeah and then it's like but is that is there a limit to that should some things not be revisited have you guys experienced yeah that's that's a really interesting question i mean i think that i think honestly only you know that and i think that's where i mean on the like

steve just was starting to refer to the biblical principles of marriage and how how much do you find in the bible about marriage you're not going to go to communication in marriage and find a great passage on it. But I think the walking with the Holy Spirit is super key to this because I think there's seasons for full disclosure, maybe depending on just what you're going through and growing through personally and then meritally. And then you're raising children and things come up. Like layers and layers of things come up. You start raising your child and you're like, wow, when I was nine, I really struggled with XYZ and it's really coming up in me. And I haven't really talked to you about this, you know? And so there's places and times for it. But I,

I believe that that's where we walk with the Holy Spirit in marriage. And it's that three cords braided together that is really important to say, have I really gone to God on this? And is he prompting me to go deeper with him, first of all, and then with my mate in this? And we also, another discovery had is there's a difference between being forgiving each other and being reconciled with each other. And this is another key that we found.

So if I do something to offend Linda, oftentimes she would forgive me. But we weren't fully reconciled because it leaves the question of, is it going to happen again? Okay, does that make sense? So forgiveness goes one way. But reconciliation is when you've worked through something and that's when you may decide, okay, we're done with this. We don't need to revisit it. And we have some topics in our marriage where we've said,

Okay, we've not dug all the way down, but we are reconciled. We have decided that together we trust in one another and this and this is the way it's going to be. But leaving it one way is just a tension point because it's like you're sitting with your spouse that you love, but you're afraid that hurt is going to happen again. And so if you haven't reconciled it, you start to withhold a little bit. because you say if I if I move into that again the pattern's going to happen again um and the the illustration we use is like if if I give Andrew if I give you a thousand dollars and um and you're going to pay it back and you don't pay it back okay and then eventually I come to you and

you say man I never said I was going to pay it back it's that's that's just you gave that to me then should I go okay I forgive that thousand dollars yeah but when you come to me again and say can I'm going to say no because I don't trust you right I don't trust see we're so I've forgiven you but we're not reconciled but when you come back and say hey Steve I borrowed that first thousand I blew it I lied I did this I'm ready to change and I believe that now we're reconciled and I will trust you again with another thousand dollars does that make sense absolutely yeah and one thing you talk about is I think in your relationship with your he lacked giving specifics for what he was wanting to reconcile or get forgiven on yeah

and that that struck me because in our marriage like I don't want to compromise any of those trust tokens that I have if that's how we're like sharing them sure and so like I want I want everything to be forgiven instead of just there's forgiven is like the I'll give you a thousand dollars again yeah that's right that's right now I got to learn all this language Yeah, yeah, got to get onboarded. But let me just pause one second and say, when you just said, learn the language, because that is the whole point of the communication thing.

Like getting a language for some of these things is what helps you communicate better and helps you understand one another better. And it helps kind of like hit it at the pass so that you're using language that you both have agreed to that makes sense for you. And you could even say to each other like, okay, are we at forgiveness or are we reconciliation?

and how much conversation would that eliminate if you could just get there and then move on and you may you may insert a strategic retreat there that says we're forgiveness which is great we're at peace we're not reconciled and let's revisit that another time because at least we're at peace but to mention what my dad did which was such a wonderful thing is my dad struggled with alcoholism and so the first thing that you do is your 12-step program and it says in that list go and say you're sorry to go apologize to the people. So he did that. Awesome. But I was sitting there saying, I think some of the stuff that happened is going to happen again. And so I didn't understand. I kept distance from him. And it wasn't his fault. I just didn't fully believe or understood that he really

understood how it had hurt me. So then about four or five years later, he just did a wonderful thing to me. He called me in his office and he said, I did this in this trip, this and this and this meeting and I was like flooded over me where I was like oh dad I know you love me now I know what you did yeah and you know and you know and you won't do it again and so that was what reconciled us so now the gap was closed and I can tell you probably between the two of you Linda runs to forgiveness very quickly because she doesn't want conflict so one of the struggles we have is Linda's like I'm saying I'm sorry and I'm saying I'm not sure you're the one who should be saying you're sorry it might

be me and and she's and she's just like I just want this over I'll apologize for anything and I'm like but then we'll just repeat it and that's where we inserted saying honey don't apologize too quickly because it might be me and we won't be reconciled just by saying I'm sorry so the thoughtfulness And actually, I think, I think in my experience, the difficult parts in our four years of marriage, like, the hardest thing is just the self-awareness and like this introspection of like, oh, how are my actions affecting Sean? Why am I making her feel that way? And I think that's why I'm more prone to like a strategic retreat because sometimes like, I'm just not that smart of a guy. So she's like, well, why did you do that? And I'm like, I.

This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar rally. The ultimate off-road challenge. Learn more at landrover.ca. I got nothing for you. Yeah, exactly. I just got to, like, let me think about it.

And then I'm probably even more, I'm like, okay, so what caused you to think that you don't know what you're doing? wasn't your mom wasn't your mom was it out of here it's so good it's so good it's so good but one thing I one

kind of phrase that you have mentioned in your series that I think it's just so amazing of a perspective to hold is you reminding each other like hey we know how this ends we know how this ends and that's us remaining married

us loving each other and it's like such a it's so powerful at some point your mind tricks you and like oh well maybe this does oh for sure oh I mean

the way we live in a culture that tells us we have options right so that's always there and we have an enemy that's always trying to destroy kill and rob our marriage of everything

and then we have our own self selfishness that just wants to battle those things so for me too because it gets hard I go there quicker and I like I'm just and so when Steve

just enters in with that truth like we know how this ends um and we kind of go through the truth of that it does it settles us down so much um it really cuts the emotion and half too so that is a huge thing because i will just you know i'll just start to get emotional and that's not going to take us where we need to go for sure and it's a it's a choice because we have seen and you guys again this is something that we just inserted our marriage this that's for praise probably 10 years ago yeah probably 10 years ago so we've been at this 38 years so 10 years ago we realized we still were surprised at how angry we would get with one another yeah and the evil thoughts that would enter in our mind where you actually start you're so angry you're like you start

saying this was this has never been right you have never understood me never always and it was just like this thing and I believe that is where the evil one just comes in and says yeah it starts whispering and saying you were never meant for each other this has been a mistake all along and just this one time now you can imagine you guys know what it's like and in the middle of this you say okay because you don't wait to you feel it I said I said honey can we just skip to the end because we know how this ends yeah and and it goes something like this it's not this sweet oh it's just kind of like we're going to be married yeah we're going to make love soon and we're going to be laughing again.

And you look at each other and you go, that is the truth. It doesn't fix everything, but it lets all the air out of the balloon to stop the rage because the rage gets damaging and we've all said stuff. And all of a sudden,

we just found this pressure release valve. One funny story from our encounter, one couple said they... Oh, but gosh, there's hilarious too. There's just hilarious stories. And the husband called me and said, yeah so we were in a really bad fight and I said honey we know how this ends and she says yes with you dead on the floor in front of me I mean and if you do this couple there

the sweetest couple of the world and only she could pull that off yeah but you know to me it was like they got it because the humor actually completely diffused the rage you know and I thought oh that's exactly it like you you can go to humor but you It's getting that emotion cut off, you know, so that your mind isn't thinking like all those things and destroying you. Just lies. Well, I feel like we get messages literally every day from people saying I got in this argument with my girlfriend or my boyfriend or my husband or my wife. And I just don't know if I can do it anymore. And I feel like, like you said, in society, we have, it's just ingrained in us to think, oh, well, we're arguing a lot.

Maybe it wasn't the right person. Right. Whereas if you go into the conversation with, this is my person, we have to figure it out. I think it changes. But we get, I swear we get questions every day of how do I know when it's time to call it a quit? Absolutely. Linne inserted something early on our marriage that I just think you're onto something. And Linda, you want to share even more around our family about what's not an option.

Yeah. So just saying divorce is not an option. And, you know, we get married and we do it. in front of a bunch of witnesses and we basically are saying, you know, we're doing this for a life, right? But then we get into it and we think we have options and the world tells us we have options. And really, like saying to one another, divorce is not an option and reminding each other that that's where we're living and that's what we're coming from and then going to our children and telling them that it's not an option. So, you know, you're living with these people that

grow up with you in your home and they see it all and hear it all. And our kids have seen us be really ugly with each other. And yet for them to have that same thing going in their head that, well, they told me divorces and an option. So I don't even have to go there and worry about that. And just the comfort that brought them. I was to say, do you remember our premarital counselor, or premarital counselor, what he said? No, I don't like, I don't like he to put my on the spot like that.

Oh, no, remember he calls it the D word, and you're never supposed to say the D word. Yeah, which is really good. We never have, which is awesome. Which is awesome. It just should never be a threat. It should never even be a, it's not even just an option. It should never be a threat. It should never, those are kind of things that take off the table.

And even with Drew, to be able to commit in front of your children to be able to say it gives them peace. Because they're going to see a fight and they need peace and just go, all I know is this ends with them together. Yeah. They need to know it. Yeah. It is just thinking about the certain. of we know how this ends especially in you know this is summer 2020 yeah hardest year yes i have never felt like this weird i'm not gonna i'm not like wildly anxious but there's so

much volatility of like well are we still going to have a job can we buy toilet paper right the certainty of yeah we're going to be married right is so amazing um and there's a series of choices that go into making that that the final destination and you guys if you guys talk about how marriage doesn't burst at slow weeks yeah can you talk us through that yeah yeah i mean we feel like we've talked to so many couples who present a situation kind of what you're saying sean about they kind of give you this scenario that they're in right now and they that becomes very inflamed and like the main thing and we've talked to so many people who they think it's the affair or the this or that what they name it and

when you really go back and you take that thread and you follow it all the way back you're like no this has been a slow leak for quite a while and and we would say you know that starts with communication like if communication's not there that is really a huge part of the slow leak because it does like steve said enter into every aspect we talk about finances we talk about sex we talk about our in-laws we talk about Steve's job we talk about our ministries and what god is doing in our lives and church life and friends and we talk about it all and if we weren't it would touch every one of those topics and so the slow leak would be and you know something that just did just one day then it's a burst at the end but it's not all the sudden a burst i had a guy i didn't

even know that well some a wife asked me to meet with her husband who had an affair and i just sat down with him and we had a series of eight breakfast and the first time he sat with me and he said he was so emphatic he was like steve i'm telling you god promised that you'd never give me more than i could be tempted and I'm telling you it happened like that he said it did not work I was there I was not looking for it we met seven more times at the end of the last time he looked at me and he goes this didn't start with the affair this started eight years ago when we stopped talking and it was his realization that that's the slow leak and every time you leave that topic uncovered it becomes a separation point and if you leave it uncovered too long it stays a

separation point and one of the things that we've another illustration is just to be able to say if we try to say to marriages Linda's dad had a heart attack one time and I called a good friend of mine John Ish who was a heart's man I said hey how bad is it and he said well the heart's a muscle and he said if the blood flow has been cut off only a short time you restore the blood flow the heart will come back fully but if blood flow has been cut off for too long to a certain part of the heart, that part of the heart will never come back. And we have seen the truth that if you cut off blood flow to a certain part of your marriage, there is a time where it's awful, difficult, and maybe impossible to revive that part. And that's why we say, that's why

we're so forward thinking, is that we have seen, tragically, marriages that all of a sudden wake up and say, I can't even remember what I loved about that person. I can't remember the last time we laughed together i can't remember that didn't happen overnight that is a slow leak that happened over years and it's an unfestered it's a wound that was never covered and then it goes to another one and then it causes separation and you'll know that what is growing in our marriage is our intimacy and union is everywhere and it impacts every part of your marriage and if you're starting to break that union it just starts to dissipate everything Your physical life, your spiritual life, everything.

And you start to look at each other and say, I'm living with a stranger. Yeah, how sad. Yeah, I mean, then you get to our stage of life as empty nesters, you know, which a lot of our friends do. You wake up one day and the kids are gone, the house is quiet. And they go to eat dinner together and they're like, you don't have anything to talk about. You can't just all of a sudden start talking really one day and be like, we haven't talked for decades. You know, where do you start? You've missed so much.

And that is, that's the slow leak of it, you know, decades. of slow leaking that you just go wake up one day and say we don't even we're not even friends anymore this is a really dangerous conversation i feel like we could be here for the next three days i'm like oh my gosh we have to remember the encounter is five sessions an hour and a half with an hour sharing afterwards so we're touching on stuff but again our hope is to give language and then we can go because it's just so hopeful to know someone else has been there and that you don't you can look at each other and say we're not broken we are meant for each other other other people have been through it and not only did we do okay we thrived and so a part of our message is just hope

marriage is awesome well and i think and for us just doing encounter in community we realize we're not alone and we're all in this together and i think isolation is another big attack on marriages you know you think it's only happening in your home and no one should know this and when we get inside a room and we all talk about these things and then we do it together it gives everyone a language and we realize too we've said in our church you know so when you're working alongside someone in antioch kids or you're on the greeting team and you can say to that person you were in marriage encounter with you know like i just don't feel reconciled with my husband over xyz like you're forming relationships with a community that's for you and i think that that's a really important part of

support for marriages that we we each know how together to do this we're all aiming for the same thing the alternative to that is you could still find community but people who are kind of just drawn to the drama of like oh my i can't believe they just side with you and they're just like yes men of like yeah you have to you know you know be angry and upset about that and that's a dangerous place to be so it's got to be they're supportive of you both totally and like there's times where I get called, you know, can, will you meet with me? And I'm like, I'll meet with you once and then we're all meeting. Yeah. Because it can't be one-sided. But I was going to say we were talking about peer pressure of our generation and social media and everything. People are so afraid to

show that relationships aren't perfect. Oh my gosh. And I don't understand it. Yeah. And the funny joke that we always share is we got engaged and close friend of mine we're going on a walk I'm asking her for advice because she's been married a few years and I said well what's what's the hardest thing about being married you know and do you fight do you argue like what do I need to like prepare myself for pretty much and she's like marriage is great I've never fought it's just and I just it's such a defeating thing to go on social media and see all these perfect relationships Because at home, you then tell yourself, oh, I don't have that, but other people do.

So I must be doing something wrong. And I, Sean, I think that is exactly the reason we did this was exactly that reason. And we have had couples in tears just saying we're just so glad we're not the only ones. Because we're all presenting, it's kind of like the whole image thing we're presenting. Well, I'll help you out. Next time we're arguing, I'll put us on speaker phone call you, it'll make you feel a lot better. And that's really why we don't call this a curriculum.

Yeah. We say we're opening our journals. We're inviting you in to just see our life and be honest. And when we do this at church, like Steve said, those five weeks, we also make it mandatory that the couples go on a date for an hour and a half afterwards so that they leave the hour and a half time with homework, have these conversations about these topics and ask each other these questions and kind of start that ball ruling so that they,

can practice kind of what they've just learned, and that's another big practical stuff. Well, and truthfully, we learned, we open the can of worms sometimes, is that we'd be in that hour and a half session, and the couple, you should see the sessions, you can look out, we're sharing, and people are looking at each other, and they're going, and you know, if you send them back in to parenting business, they will never talk about what that just happened, and all we've done is open up a can of wounds, and it just got worse. So the hour after, to hour and a half afterward is to say, okay, those looks that you just had. Yeah, you have to talk about it.

You got to talk about it before you get back into life. Otherwise, you're just going to go right back to it. So we learned the hard way of saying, but then it goes back to, what do we have to do? Communicate. And that's where that budgeting term, I think you mentioned, we budget everything in our marriage. I mean everything. And that sounds so clinical. Yeah, so boring.

And it's the, but it's not clinical at all. It's just the term covers what we needed to do and what we found out was missing. And man, when we just looked and said, are we shooting for the same topic? Have we agreed where we're headed? Have we agreed about what we want? Because we just found out we were fighting so much over because Linda was headed here. I was headed here. And we couldn't figure out while we're fighting.

It's like, well, until we figure out unified, what are we after? Yeah. so anyway so for those listening uh and we'll link the whole marriage encounter series in the description but stephen linda used a term called budgeting and i think it originated with the finances it originated with finances where you were walking through like hey this our monthly budget and why do you overspend here and he realized that it was because linda actually never signed off on the budget itself so they're never on the same page never had a chance are you laughing because summer's here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with uber eats what do we mean by almost well you can't get a well-groom lawn delivered but you can get a chicken parmesan delivered a cabana that's a no but a banana that's a yes a nice tan sorry nope but a box fan happily yes a day of sunshine no a box of fine wines yes uber eats can definitely get you that get almost almost anything delivered with uber eats order now alcohol and select markets product availability may vary by regency app for detail

I have to tell the credits are a story. Yeah. Okay. I have to tell it. So, funny situation about budgeting where we are getting more unified in everything and we're still working on it. But Andrew walks in one day, just cold. Like, no communication has ever been had about budgeting.

And he's like, I'm cutting up our credit cards. And I was like, oh, okay, okay, we're, let's take a step back. what's going on he's like you're only allowed to pay in cash from now on and I was like what what are you talking about exactly exactly exactly and I got defensive and stubborn obviously and I was like you need to tell me if I go to the grocery store I'm going to have to go to the bank I'm going to have to get out cash I'm going to have to go from the bank to the grocery store and if I don't have enough cash I'm going to have to go back to the bank and he's like yeah and I just so now we have 40 credit cards that's how we compromise that way exactly

But doing that not just with finances, but actually getting together and getting on the same page of, hey, this is where we want our career to go. This is where we want our service and missions to go. And I'll use that as a transition. A big part of communication is understanding what the other is called to. And a second of the five kind of segments that you guys talk about in marriage are your spiritual gifts and your missions. And I know you guys just had a huge Zoom call on Friday, is that right? If you could talk about that. Yeah.

So we, through my ministry, he knows your name. I got a call about a baby that was really critically ill in the NICU at our children's hospital in Indianapolis. And we found out that this child was up for adoption, but was basically so critically ill was not going to survive even the next week. and they needed someone to make medical decisions for the baby and because the ministry I have takes care of children in death and gives them honor and dignity when I got the call that's where I thought this conversation was going and when I realized they were asking me to consider

taking care of the baby in life so that we could be with this child in this fragile state it was just like it was just so beautiful because when I told Steve about it, he said, I mean, I got on the phone with him and he said, you know, I'm going with you. You're not going to do this alone. And that partnership and friendship and our marriage just came right into my ministry life. And it became a partnership and something we did together, which then ended up being final on Friday that we adopted Abigail Elise together and brought her in to our family. And that whole process that's been formed. months long, was something that, you know, God continues to take the kingdom work we're both doing, which is very separate in some ways and brings it together and makes it something we're doing together in marriage. And it has just been such a blessing for us to experience so many different things. I mean, but we had never done anything like that before. I would love for you to speak

more about, he knows your name. From an outsider's perspective, they could look and say, well, she was three months old like why why put so much effort and time into legally adopting this child why is that important to you guys well Abigail um it was it's about changing the store the narrative of a life because Abigail's mom left her abandon her and so she's there's a little baby left to die basically um without any claim without any name the name on her door was both Bufu Bufu Bufa baby up for adoption instead of being called by name. And so we get a chance to come in and hold her and we worshiped with her and we baptized her and we held her as she died.

So we had 24 hours with her. And what we feel like is it's a kingdom opportunity because the whole narrative changed in the hospital. Right. When we walked in, you guys, the receptionist said, we've been waiting for you. Because everybody in the hospital knew that there was this abandoned baby that had no claim. And all of a sudden, two people come, which we believe is a representation of the kingdom and say, we'll step in. And so we loved her.

We fell in love with her for that 24 hours. It's amazing how God gave us a heart verse. She was beautiful on the outside. She looked perfect. And so we held her as she died. And so the adoption was the finish of the narrative of the narrative over her life was abandoned. Nobody wants you to now, not only do we want you, we're going to fight for you, we're going to go to court for you, and now you have a legacy. And so now she carries a legacy for her life.

And the beautiful part about Abigail is if you were there at the funeral is so she was abandoned, but in her funeral, 130 people showed up. She had a police escort or her mercy escort down the highway to her funeral. She was a celebrated daughter of the king where so her story went from abandonment to a community claiming her and mourning her. And we just talked to our youngest daughter and our other kids and we have another person. So it's dignity and affirmation that every life matters to God. So Linda's stepping into death all the time. and putting dignity on a name that otherwise people look at and say, well, why did that baby live?

I think it's really good, like Amelia. Right, I mean, so I've claimed 24 babies in death that have been abandoned either a coroner's office or a hospital or outside. But this call with Abigail was so different because she was alive. So she was born on February 8th. We got the call on February 7th, and we were with her from February 7th to February 8th. So the three months was from the time she died to the whole process of adoption. But we didn't have that idea.

We didn't know it was even a possibility. The adoption attorney called us and said, would you like to formally adopt her? Because all we really had time for in the hospital in that 24 hours was to do legal guardianship, which gave us all the authority we needed to do the medical care and decision-making over her life at that point into her dying. And so we were like, yes. I mean, if we could claim her not just in death, but adopt her in life. Like you talk like Steve's saying, change the narrative over this.

She had injustice all over her because of her situation. And she was alone and unnamed. And so now she's named and claimed. And she will have a headstone that has our name on it. She will have her birth and death certificate with our name on it. And she's forever grafted into. our family and really our legacy is hers and her legacy is ours now and it's just so beautiful but like I said it's just like nothing we've ever done before and as a couple you know what we have

so Lynn and I have very different ministry I pastor over in Ukraine and so I go there three times a year she's doing this and they're very very separate but we're united in our bedroom talking about our kingdom lives all the time yeah a biggest part of our intimacy is that we actually don't share a lot of ministry where we're actually side by side doing it. Other than our church, of course, what is. But I go to some hard parts of the world. She's going here to the graveside.

But when we come back together, we're just sharing what God's doing. And that's the spiritual unity that creates an intimacy that I think a lot of couples are missing to be able to see unified and say, oh, let me tell you what I saw. And it's not separate. It's Lynn and I are built very, very differently.

Linda is not an international travel. I'll go anywhere. You know what I mean? And so you either look and you say, well, how do you compromise to find that in between or we've just been able to find spiritually that we're united even when we're far apart? Because every time we talk,

we're talking about what we share together. And this thing with Abigail was just a unique time that we could do it together. And the whole hospital was brokenhearted over this little girl. So doctors would come in and visit and wanted to see. And the doctor that performed or that pronounced her past stood. We were just saying this other day, this beautiful Nigerian man, doctor. And he just stood there after she had passed.

And he just stood there for like a good 10 minutes. And we didn't know. And he finally just looked and he said, who are you? And why did you come into this? And he said, are you pastors? which is just kind of what everybody thinks, right? And we said, yes and no, we're not pastors, but we are shepherds, and just like you're a shepherd.

And we got to pray for this man, we got to pray for nurses. So there's this entry into as a couple that we get to minister by standing together in the kingdom. I don't know if that's making sense. No, yeah. But we're very separate. And like one of the things that happens with couples is, like Linda, a way leans more towards the prophetic so she'll get words from god she gets direct verses and what we've

seen couple's struggle is i don't and i can feel less than sometimes i can feel threatened because i'm supposed to be leading spiritually but i watch her and i see how she walks with the spirit and i do walk with the spirit but not in that same way and we had tension for a while in our lives of saying okay what is this supposed to look like and there is a way as a couple that are we found to embrace each other's spiritual gifting and then lean into that strength. I'm always the leader, but there's times when I lean into Linda's strength because we're in a spiritual part that this is right up her lane. And so imagine the unity of feeling like I'm leaning into you right now and she just takes

it and runs with it. She still looks for my leadership, but it's not always coming under me. there's sometimes she's just stronger than I am. And so finding that has been really cool for us to look and say, whose strength do we lean in in this minute? And sometimes it's lindous. I think sometimes people compare the gifts. I mean, we do it in church, right?

We do it in community. You know, which gift is stronger, which gift is more important in the body, you know, or any of that. And really, at the end of the day, what unifies us more than anything is that we both love saying yes to God. And that is what leads. everything. And it doesn't matter how we get there. But, you know, when I got a call about Abigail, would I come down to the hospital and meet with this medical team and talk about this thing? And I

couldn't even get my head around what they were asking of me to come down and talk about end-of-life decisions for a critically ill little baby. I was like, well, yes, I'll go. You know, I'll go and figure it out and just listen. And then I call Steve and I say, this is what they've said to me. And he's just like, well, I'm going with you. And that's where we stand on unity. And the yes is kind of what leads everything so that we can then say, it doesn't matter that you're bringing this strength or I'm bringing this strength. We're about the kingdom and doing radically whatever it is Jesus is asking us to do. That's amazing.

It gets me excited. It's inspirational. I think about Abigail and I think the judge said that now she'll have forever parents. And another quote I saw was now, now it's it's apparent that she was wanted and known and loved and I think about the alternative to what that situation could have been right and I'm thankful you guys did that just from like you know the father of a baby myself it's it's powerful one thing you guys talk about how is if your marriage is off your ministry is limited and that is

so powerful, so crucial to, if you're married, like, you know, whatever your mission is, if you can talk about the, if there's something off at the marriage, it's going to limit what you do. Yeah, because, I mean, we really are so connected spiritually that it is like Steve's, you know, analogy of the heart, like there's blood flow that's not coming into that place spiritually and meridally so that we can go do what God made us to do. And we believe that really the first platform with which we do anything is our marriage. It's not ministry first. It's not even parenting first.

It's that we are who we are because of our marriage. We do what we do because of our marriage. It gives us so much credibility and so much authority in our communities and in the church to be who God created us both to be. And it's a mystery because it's like there's the individual part of that, who we are and how we manifest the gifts in our lives or who we are as a couple. But I just feel like I know that I am fully flowing

and hearing from God to do what he's called me to do when Steve and I are right. And on a really practical basis, you guys have all been around, look, the fact is people don't know a lot of great marriages. They don't. If you ask people the same, The bad thing is, I was telling Andrew before we started this, is that one of the biggest things we've been able to do is talking to people and watch tears come into their eyes when we're saying that marriage is great, and they literally will say, we don't hear that.

We hear marriage is okay. We hear it's good, but so they don't see great marriages. So one, think about it. Anything time you have something that is very, very unique, it gives you a platform. So if you have a great marriage, second is you can't fake it. you and I we've all been around marriages that you will watch a facade and then when you're in them socially and you watch cutting remarks you watch insulting shortness with each other and you look and you go you know it's not right and I don't care how you think about that person it impacts whatever whatever if I'm short with her and I'm demeaning her and I'm doing that and then I step up on a stage and preach a great message you're looking and going yeah what is that about so it undermines it underpins everything that we have and one of the greatest things and I don't know if you guys the couples you hang around but I remember as a young guy you know one of the things that I realize is I need Linda to think the world of me that's the most important thing for me as a man is

and I've watched other as a young person I was just watching women watch and say about their husbands why don't you dress like him why can't you act more like him look at what joe did how can you can't do that linda has never done that to me once not once in our entire marriage and anytime i see a wife do that i just look and i say don't do that you have no idea even if you're upset with them wait till you're at home in your bedroom but out in public your husband is looking and he needs to know that if you had to choose all over again you'd choose him And I watch. And so I look and I say that tells me a lot about a marriage to be able to say because that tells me you guys haven't talked close enough to know.

Like Linda knows that what I need most, my most secure thing in the world is how does she look at me? It's even more important than the sex. It's more important than anything. It's just like, do you admire me? Do you respect me? And if you don't, I'm in trouble. It doesn't matter what else is going right. And that's the other platform that it builds up is that I can be out in the business world.

And if my marriage, if Lynn and I are struggling, I feel it everywhere. I'm not saying I can't operate, but I am not operating in the time that when we're strong. Does that answer your question? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Would you say that the core behind that, you feel it everywhere because this is the person that you've shared most with. And so if you don't get the affirmation, as.

you know as as much as we don't try to get affirmation from each other it's definitely a part of the equation sure that it undermines your self-confidence of like oh yeah well if she doesn't love me she knows most about me then these people won't and i'm giving them my best face or yeah for sure and life is hard relationships are hard work is hard ministry is hard church is hard you know what i think but i if i can leave this and feel like i he is so for me And we, I just feel full. I mean, that goes to another term we use in our marriage encounter. If my cup is full from Steve, I can go pour out all day long, like this endless well of everything I need to give everywhere else.

As a mom, as a daughter, as a sister, as an in-law, as a friend. And I don't mean that to sound like he's, you know, my everything and that. but like it starts with the companionship that we have like what you're referring to being so known and comfortable there that Steve fills my cup like no one else in this world can because I chose him and he chose me and God crafted marriage to be a covenant that would be that place like an intimate place of something that we get something from each other that no one else can give one give us and I think that I think that men in particular I meet with men all the time that are totally confused, and I was confused.

They're confusing their sexuality, their sexual desires with what God is built in them to be looked at as a man, and so sometimes, and that's one of our topics is to be able to say, I just met just in the last month, I'll bet you a bunch of guys that are so confused because one of the other tension points is sex, is making love, and frustration. Even when you are doing great together, even when our physical relationship was great, we still had all kinds of tension about frequency, who initiates, all of that. It's because we were confused. I was confused.

And I think men are confused to say, like the Book of Solomon, it says that it shows this picture of a man just saying, I want my woman to look at me and say, if I choose anyone, it would be you. And that is even more important than the physical. The problem is that sometimes we've connected that the only time I feel that way is when I'm having sex. And that doesn't fill your cup. I mean, one of the discoveries that we had is just to say, if I initiate all the time, and again, this is going into another topic, but I just want to say one of the confusing things, this would take another hour. but why was I frustrated? Because I loved being with my wife.

Why was I frustrated? You can get protein at home or a protein latte at Tim's. No powders, no blenders, no shakers. Starting at 17 grams per medium latte, Tim's new protein lattes, protein without all the work at participating restaurants in Canada. If I initiated. If I'm only about the physical,

then why do I care who initiates? well I care who initiates because if I initiate all the time I still get the physical but what I need is to feel like my wife wants to be with me and so we're raised to believe that men are physical and women are emotional and the best thing you can do is compromise in between that's not true I found out I had to move towards my cup was filled by not just the physical but by the desire that she has for me the respect she has. And so men are chasing it in the wrong way.

And they're so confused. And they're going over here. And when you unite that, those two things, the intimacy and the union and the emotion, then it lights out. Physically, it improves everything. Our physical life is better now than it's ever been. And it's because of the lack of confusion

and the understanding of the role that we play for one another. Which takes a ton of communication. there um there's one story i think is when you were pregnant and on the on the concept of filling your cup yeah and uh you mentioned that you know you'd leave linda and she would be upset and you're like well i just was with her yeah all the time you sat down with a mentor yeah and he said if she wants you to be with her you need to be with her and and your response was like well then i'm never going leave because she always wants me back and I feel that so deeply it's like yeah it's so important but it's that willingness to serve of like okay she needs this and and trying to address that

issue before moving on is it's so important again could be another hour yeah um I do want to talk about another oh Nash hello Nash is joining yesterday um another pivotal thing I think in your marriage that's helped you pursue your ministry, you pursue your ministry. It's a hard series of words to say. Yeah, pursue your ministry. Is the financial restraints that you've put on your careers and your lives? I would love to hear more about that. Well, I think the best way to talk about that would be to say the blessing of it.

And yet I didn't have the forward thinking that's. Steve did because he's more a planner than I am. But years and years and years ago, just looking at our lifestyle and our income and the success of Steve's business and deciding to cap our income and say, you know, we're going to only live, not only live. I mean, we live a very nice lifestyle, live on a certain amount of money. And then we want to give the rest away. And then the way that ended up manifesting itself into well we can't always give it all away we don't always have a place to put it or you know give it that year so determining you know that's you know steve had just this thought like if i if we build a foundation and we put money away there then we can cap our

income live on what we've we feel is just such a blessing from the lord um and that i don't know when we did that, Steve. Almost 20 years. Yeah, it's incredible. But the way that ended up manifesting itself, which you and I talked about with, He Knows Your Name, was just that when the Lord brought me this ministry, I have not had to fundraise at all. So for 11 years, I've not once had to go and ask anyone for money, fundraise, have an event

or anything around that. And the freedom that has given me to just do the work that God has called me to do because we have this foundation that funds every day. everything that I do for he knows your name has been an incredible blessing and I just I could never take any credit for having thought that much forward for that because Steve really led us in that direction fully so what do you want to say about that well and in terms of the but linda's more generous more naturally generous than I was I was captured by money I was a slave to money so part of my action was I realized when I started making

money. I went and saw three men, all three Christians, and I interviewed them just to say, because this is kind of the way I roll. And I said, how did it go? And one of them was the most pitiful conversation I've ever seen in my life because he had had about 15 years of fantastic abundance. But the last three years had been really bad. And all he could talk about was the last three years and how God had forsaken him. And I looked and I walked him out and it's like, we'll be that person. If we're, if we're living, to our means all the time, and then God cuts off the faucets, we're going to be panicked and we're going to look. So we went home, sat on our porch, and I said, how do we live a life

so that if God stops it, we can look and say thanks for the great ride? Because I saw gratitude is joy. And if my gratitude is stolen and this man's gratitude had been stolen, he couldn't see the 15 great years. He could only see the three bad. And so one was a protection of that. Second is I was mastered by money. So I needed to do something dramatic. And Linda was awesome, generous. And her first response was, why can't we just give it? Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure. This fall get double points on every qualified stay.

Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. As it comes in. And I said, because we won't. We'll spend it. And it won't be there. It won't be there.

and so it just said a lifestyle but to affirm linda um we i had a very successful business i don't know many women that would have cut lifestyle the lifestyle linda could live um i just don't know i have to affirm her saying i just don't know that many that would say okay we'll do this because she could have had a lot lot more um but i do want to roll So then we start the foundation and just to kind of affirm God's response to this. So we did this and it had a lot of ups and downs, a lot of scary times because at one time I was almost losing my business. And I was like, what did we do? Yeah.

Because he was gone. And so when he knows your name started, when he knows your name started, we had to start a second foundation. And my attorney said, why don't we just roll it into the first foundation rather than start him? I said, okay, great. Well, to do that, we have to review all the money you've given. We have to go back through this, blah, blah, blah. So we did this. And Lynn and I had one of the most sweetest times because for the first time.

Yeah, we hadn't even looked back or counted anything. We didn't know how much we've given it. And I can say this because it's actually published in another book. So it's already out there. And we looked and we were like, holy cow, this is how much money we've given away. And we've given away more than we've kept. And so we looked at this number. And I went home to Linda.

then we sat at the table and I said, I have three questions. I said, one, if we had all this money back right now, how would it change our life? And she and I couldn't come up with one thing that we felt like we missed. And then we looked and said, and then we looked at each other and said, now think of the people and the things that would not be in our life had we not given this. Yeah, for sure. And we both wept. and the first question is now if God had said when we cut the line this is how much you're going to give away what would we have said no way yeah overwhelming it's one of those God things of just looking and saying we would have said no way we had a good heart but if he would have said this is how much and this is

what's going to happen we would have said not doing it yeah but the very thing we would have said no to him turned out to be our biggest blessing and I would say in our lives that's what we live with, knowing that often the time that the thing we want to say no to is going to be the thing that God's going to just rock us with. And so that's kind of where we went into with Abigail of going, we didn't want to hold a baby as she died. It was heartbreaking. It really took us to a heart place. I mean, taking a baby off life support. But she changed our lives. I mean, was the hardest and the best thing we had done together.

I mean, I, someone said it's a beautiful, terrible. I'd be curious, does the weight of your ministry ever affect your home life, your relationship? I mean, it's the most beautiful ministry ever. Thank you. But that's a weight you have to carry around forever. Yeah. And it, it, there, I mean, the grief after Abigail together was really, really hard to walk through it together. And there have been things that have been really hard.

and I will say God has equipped me and qualified me to do this work too and I don't even understand all that but a lot of times people say do you just cry all the time you know 24 funerals you know right you cry all the time

and I really I have to say that the mystery of the Holy Spirit in this for me is that he's given me an incredible joy to do it and to because it's a joy and a sorrow but like to think that like a baby like you mentioned a

Amelia earlier, you know, was found by a hiker at a park in Indianapolis, left to die, you know, in the dirt. And she was found. She was named. She has a legacy. And we got to celebrate her life. What's your like about the footprint? Yeah.

But I mean, it's like that joy really for me overtakes the sorrow most of the time for sure. And it's just a mystery. It just is. Yeah. But I mean, her legacy is that her footprint is on the safe. and baby box, which is now in five states and saving baby's lives and babies put in that box rescued anonymously under the safe haven law are adopted within 30 days. And so moms in crisis have an option. So instead of just maybe giving birth at a park alone somewhere and leaving a baby to

die, a mom now is educated about the safe haven law and she can choose to put her baby in a box. And these babies are wrapped in sweatshirts or nothing, placenta and all put in the safe haven and baby boxes. And so we know that those moms are desperate. You want to do the questions? Okay. Let me our time's off. Okay, we ask the same three questions to every couple, lighthearted and fun. Great. But you have to choose who goes first without knowing the questions. Linda goes first. Okay. How do you like that for Gallant? Yes. So a first question we always ask because it's fascinating to see the answers is what's your biggest pet peeve with one another yeah yeah that's awesome oh gosh that's awesome one great question steve's nervous yeah one

yeah one just one okay the thing i've been griping about lately to him i'll just pick that is that he leaves his coffee mug on the counter with his every morning he has peanut butter on a bagel or something and i'm not a coffee drinker so i you know have the coffee the coffee mug and the peanut butter knife on the counter every morning to clean up after. That's my thing. But that's my thing.

I come down and I'm like, peanut butter and coffee. Not my favorite smells in the morning. Yeah, I mean, I would get that. Okay, now you. Mine definitely is Linda's, we have very different communication styles.

Okay. And that is so frustrating to me because I'm a succinct communicator. Linda's are around and that is just and it's judgmental of me but man is it frustrating so that's my pet peege it makes me think of the comedy skit is that what you're

thinking we just we went to a comedy show the other night and this guy was talking about how he asked his wife what time she's leaving like she was flying out he said what time you're leaving she said noon and he was like honey you're still at home it's 1130

and she's like oh well that's what time I'm leaving for the airport he was like he's like who inches question like that like tell me what i did know like what you think i wanted anyway exactly yeah it's funny i feel like that's okay part two of the questions so now i get to go first is what do love the most about your wife oh um that's easy she is the most devoted person i've ever known in my life and she's the most devoted to everybody that she's devoted to she's just equally i just watch her dive in with people that's easy the most devoted person i've ever seen yeah And what do you love most about your husband?

I'm going to say his smile and sense of humor because we were talking earlier about how we met in high school. And when I met him at the library, he made me laugh. And Steve making me laugh is how I know we're doing really well. And I love his smile. And I love when he makes me laugh. You do have a great smile. Thanks. You do have a great smile.

You guys have shared so much wonderful wisdom. It was really cool to see the pride that you guys have. and the giving and you talking about how much you've you know tried to make that a priority in your relationship and it's like that's the type of pride I want to have that it doesn't come from buying a different car or these different things you don't get that pride right and it's really really inspiring if you listening want to find out more about Steve and Linda and the things they have going including he knows your name you want to hear more about

their marriage advice and their marriage encounter series will include the links down below but I appreciate you too taking the time to join us and I hope you have safe travels back home what you have to ask them the third question oh my bad my bad okay if you could this is like the big question if you could summarize all this wonderful

experience this wealth of wisdom that you have and give one piece of marriage advice either that you've received or that you've learned from experience. What would you share? That one's easy for me, is that I fought monogamy and the beauty and the growth and the purity and the wonder of monogamy is the biggest testament to God. Because I feel like if there's anything in the world that says one person, can't fulfill you one person's never enough it can't that's the narrative of the

world and yet I am finding the exact opposite that God knew us better than we knew ourselves and he knew that monogamy and it just keeps getting better and better so I am continually amazed that monogamy and the purity of marriage is where it's actually at it's not just a trade-off it is the only place we can be fulfilled so that's mine okay what was your question again best piece of advice you had you've been given or you would give um the best bed the best piece of advice um probably from my husband to me is to trust him and let him lead us in places that i know are best for us like i think of the times that i've had to just kind of put myself aside and let Steve fill my cup with his love for me,

his adoration of me, his loyalty to us, and let my feelings be put aside and let him just pour into me. So he knows me better than I know myself most times. Wow. This is great guys. This is fun for us. I just been absorbing so much stuff. I don't think I asked any questions. I'm just like, yeah. Anyway, we really appreciate you guys. Thank you. You guys are wonderful. Thank you.

You're gracious. Thank you so much for inviting us. It's so good to see you guys. And Drew's beautiful. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, she never made an appearance. I know.

She's still asleep. Miraculously. Yeah. Sweet. Well, thank you guys. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Thank you.