Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 288: THE FINALE: Our Honest Debrief (Shawn Won!)

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

We made it to the FINALE- and nothing could’ve prepared us for what this last episode threw at us. At this point, we were exhausted, worn down, and hanging on by whatever grit we had left. The DS pushed us into the most intense test of the entire course: capture, interrogation, zero sleep, and moments that forced us to stay locked in when our minds wanted to tap out. We are so proud of each other walking into that final challenge together and we’re even more grateful you’ve been watching along with us. This finale was raw, surreal, and honestly one of the hardest things we’ve ever done. Can’t wait to hear what you think and wrap up this wild journey with you. Love, Shawn & Andrew From Shawn: Self doubt has creeped in over the years… after retirement, a failed comeback, and 3 kids. I wondered if I could. I feared I couldn’t. But dang….. it sure feels good knowing I did! I finished! It hurt. I learned a lot. I healed a lot. I’m better for it. Thank you to the DS for pushing me. You taught me so much! Getting those smiles and hugs at the end was the greatest reward! Thank you for being the best coaches ever. And to Gia… I’m so fricken proud of you! You pushed so hard and never gave up! Love you lady!" Nurture Life ▶ Head to https://www.NurtureLife.com/EASTFAM and use code EASTFAM for 55% off your first order PLUS free shipping NOBLTravel ▶ Biggest sale yet!!! Head to https://www.NOBLTravel.com for up to 58% OFF your entire order. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them our show sent you. Subscribe to our newsletter ▶ https://www.familymade.com/newsletter Follow our podcast Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/shawnandandrewpods/ Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Shop My LTK Page ▶ https://www.shopltk.com/explore/shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things. With your new champion of special forces, world's toughest test, Miss Sean Johnson East. Yes. Let's freaking go, babe. And runner up. Andrew is... I don't know if runner up's the right word.

There's a lot to debrief here. I feel so glad that we could share this news. I know. We have no more lies to hide. I know. It's all out there. Sean won this thing. crushed it top to bottom, honestly.

Stone Cold Killer. She shows up and dominates. Whatever the challenge, whatever competition, you want her to dance, she'll dance, and she'll freaking win. You want to do gymnastics? She'll freaking win that too. Show up and put her with some Navy SEALs in the middle of Morocco-Saharan Desert. Boom, baby.

She's on top. That's my girl. I'm freaking proud of you. I'm freaking proud of you, Andrew. You crushed it. What a thing to have done together. What a thing. You know what?

We've been doing all this practice. the past few weeks about this show and people have asked so many questions about the dynamics of us doing it together and they alluded on the show to us

to you saying or like them saying to you they think you could have done better had I not been there and I don't know about you but for me I actually don't know if I would have been able

to do it without you there likewise it was like being able to just like peek over in the corner and be like he's still here like i can i can take a deep breath and i like god forbid something happens like my husband's here made me have like this courage to go do all of it this is more just a sean and i moment but i am so glad that we've got to experience all of this together from the media day from day one to all the way to the end because we're on the last day we got to do everything together and there's nothing like no one will understand what that last 24 hours was like you guys the anxiety just the the twistedness of it all and we were in there in that holding

cell moaning next to each other i was moaning extra loud because i wanted you to hear me and know that i was there likewise we're out there moaning dude we're moaning this last episode was in Hence. It was called interrogation. It should have been called torture, because that's what it was. It was very long. So the end of episode eight ends with us getting captured. The dogs are barking at us. You know, all of these things, Randall Cobb, that's when EVW, smart man.

And then we go into episode nine. It starts by they bring us back into base camp. We have the masks on, the goggles on top of the masks. We're zip tied. The dogs are barking us again. You see the interrogators come in for the first time. You've got the really tall, bald guy with tattoos. You've got the small, blonde woman.

And then you've got the guy with like... Normal-looking guy. Normal-looking guy. Just a normal-looking guy. And they're screaming at us, whispering in our ears. And this begins interrogation. That's right. So the episode picks up as we're getting walked into the courtyard.

dogs were barking at us. We were standing there with our hands zip tied, bags of our head. And Sean remembered us being in that situation. I did not realize that we were in the courtyard. Honestly, it's hard for my memory to patch all this stuff together. Same. Because you are sleep deprived. You haven't eaten in a long time.

And you're also like emotionally zoning out on purpose. Yes. You're trying not to like, you become a shell very quickly. Yeah. it's all really overwhelming and it is also on the heels of eight days of stress in and of itself and you got people yelling at you the dogs it's all a very heightened situation so anyway my recollection was all weird but we're standing there in the courtyard and there's just people who go who go around and are whispering stuff in your ear and they're like screaming at you and you're

like okay here we go this is it this is also the beginning of interrogation so I remember having this mindset of like this is it this is kind of where for me personally I was deciding how I was going to approach this whether I was in for it or whether I was going to tap out I was more nervous and more scared about this part of the competition than anything from day one I was never afraid of like the heights the swimming I had my moments of like weakness but I was never fearful like truly fearful until this and i remember thinking to myself and having this panicked moment of am i going to be able to do this and it was in that courtyard as the dogs are circling us you can like i could feel them smelling and barking which in my mind i was like good boy i was like

happy about that but i remember flipping a switch and being like we're going to do this so a little background and I have at least two apologies that I will be giving and admitting throughout this episode. And I'll lead up to the first one. But this was a part I think Sean and I were most fearful about because when we got the invitation to go in the show in April of 2025, give or take, we were so pumped initially. That was like the gut reaction, initial reaction was like, oh my gosh this is epic helicopters and and like traveling somewhere and doing it together and then we watched the show and you see the DS yell at people and you see them you know psychologically deconstruct these people that didn't bother me right but it did it did introduce the idea of

the psychological aspect of this and the DS do it very generously and for your benefit right we've talked about how they really want to help you and push you through whatever is holding you back or whatever past baggage you've had. But when Sean and I saw the last episodes of all the previous seasons of this interrogation, we had this conversation for about a week of not really wanting to do the show because we thought there was a chance that they would use this to play games between Sean and I. Which they did. Which they did.

And we were like, I don't want them to pit me against her or vice versa. Or I don't want them to like put us in this weird situation in any way that might make us view each other differently. Because I think we view each other, I think we venerate each other and honor each other. And that's what I want my legacy to be to my kids and my legacy to be for freaking anyone who's ever come across me, I want them to know that I honor my wife.

And that has not changed, Andrew. I will say, though. I would like to, I mean, are you going to jump ahead? We've got to get through the rest of it before he gets to that point. My first apology is in parallel with this. Because at the beginning of the past episode,

we had this interesting dialogue about organization and the way your mind works and I want to say an apology no no no my gosh I feel this way I want to say an apology because I was confronting that conversation with the assumption that you were casually talking as if you had ADD and like almost making a joke of like oh yeah I have ADD and so thus I approached it as if oh she's saying this because her mind is fragmented and I think I can help with the organization side of it, which we did make a mind map, which was fun. We did, which I like.

And maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. But I want to apologize because that conversation, listening to that in light of watching this last episode, just made me realize that, my gosh, if the thing I want to do most, one of the things I want to do most is honor my wife. a bad way to do that is to just bullhead my way unapologetically towards

my style, my natural inclination, which I did in that conversation of like, let's freaking fix this, you know? Yeah. And that still applies to this show, which will get there. But I mentioned this on Nick Fialis podcast of like, I'm grateful for the community we have on the internet

because I feel like they really provide a gentle perspective that does not come naturally to me. I have my one way of approaching the world and my one lens through which to see it. And there were some people on there were like, oh, hey, maybe she does have ADD and maybe like a mind map won't help. And I was like, oh, wow, maybe she does have ADD. We've honestly never had that conversation before. So then we had this conversation in New York. I'm like, okay, actually, it's not an offhanded casual comment it's like no this is real so i'm grateful and i want to apologize i feel like i feel like i want to quickly course correct anytime i might be wrong and that was one of them so please accept my apology you're human golden golden retriever baby i love you i accept your apology

though i have told you already this is not fresh guys we've said this you had nothing to apologize for though I accept your apology and I appreciate that I took no offense to that I love you I love you baby we should have an entire

podcast about ADHD people yeah a lot of people wanted that that was one of the most engaged with episodes we've had because a lot of people were sharing their own stories yeah which thank you for that

and so sorry if I was insensitive but I would like to just you know I'm a freaking I'm a grown man and I can I can apologize because I will make mistakes because I'm a grown man

so dagnav it and I just realize that people listen to what we have to say I love you I love you too okay back to the episode yes back to the episode so we're taking out to the square

dogs are barking they're screaming at us from there there's so much of this episode that was left out because it was 12 to 18 hours long they can't put that into one hour so to give you some context as to what was happening

as the hours ticked by so they take all of us into this holding room cell-ish like place we still have the bags of our head we have the goggles on they put they take the zip ties off so now our hands are free but they put over our ears headphones with the volume turned up way too loud talk about getting overstimulated instantly and playing on the headphones are like awful sounds so it was like animals getting slaughtered babies hysterically crying nails on a chalkboard fax machines dial-up set it was just like it was very chaotic sounds not like there wasn't a rhythm to them it wasn't a pattern it wasn't something your brain could follow it is truly disruptive I still hear

the noises when you talk about like the fax machine I know I can hear that or the blower the blower I remember coming home and bears our youngest kids' favorite toy is a blower. He turned it on and I was like, nope, nope. Oh my gosh. So as we had these headphones on, we're being put into stress positions. There were three stress positions that we would kind of alternate through at very random times. Let me see if I could demonstrate. But it would be hours at a time.

So whether in there was no way to keep time, it was just a very long time. So it was either standing up, hands. and arms completely extended out in front of you, barely touching a wall, legs straight, legs spread apart. That was one. And I feel like they would position, they would go around and literally move your arms and legs and your body to position you in a way that it's not like a relaxing standing up. Your arm, you're like leaning forward to touch a wall and your legs are too wide to like be comfortable. It was awful. So it's weird. But not the worst one. Yeah. Then the next one, which was the worst one, was crisscross applesauce with your hands,

stacked above your head they could rest on your head but they couldn't like be intertwined so there was no like it was just uncompy straight back not bent over if you're back bent you would get a knee in the back or they would yell at you or whatever and they're coming by and it's not like a yeah they're fixing your position by doing a knee in your chest and pulling your arms back which by the way one of the first things that have you do is change into this little like one z zip up yeah which mine was too small. Yeah, and mine was way too big, which didn't help either. Right. So I couldn't even extend my arms. I was in excruciating pain and they would have you sit there for like 45 minutes. At least. Again, there's no way to tell time. We're not looking at anything, seeing anything. We have

the bag of our head. Nobody's telling us. It's been an hour. It's been two hours. It's like you're on your own. And then the last position would be laying down on the ground, which was glorious. Heaven. I want to provide as many details as possible because a lot of lot of the comments that I'm seeing on like Nick's podcast that was posted with all the finalists and our previous ones that people are watching the finale and commenting through say that this was a most confusing episode which historically has been and Sean was with some of the producers in LA last week who said they're trying to edit this differently in a more helpful way so here's here's what we learned only last week that we did not know in the

moment to help make sense of it don't give them any we don't need extra details about going through the forest we only need the details about they sit us down and they say in the event you are captured yes by your enemies here's what you do so they're saying build a rapport act like you don't know why you're there and that they have like the wrong person right this is like you you are not guilty yeah so act confused don't don't talk about home don't say that you're in the special forces ever and also remember we were in two groups for the navigation part of it which was immediately before this interrogation and what I recall would you recall the same thing in the opposite group

it sounded like it was said pretend like the other group doesn't exist they're just doing their own thing so then you had to come up with an alibi why your team was captured what you were doing in Morocco. Why were you wearing military gear? Why did you not have a phone? Why did you have this big bag filled with all these tools? You had to come up with all of this. We tried to come up with it before we got captured as a team. And then you had to kind of remember it and grow on it. So we also thought watching previously, if someone asked me, did you not know what you were getting into here? Did you not prepare? And one, there's a small possibility in my mind that they weren't going to do the same finale, the same finish for this one because the last, the last episodes have

been confusing. So we're like, okay, interesting. Also, you don't know, like, we came up with a pretty good alibi, I thought, but you don't know how they're going to dig into it or what questions they're going to ask. And I also, I also started realizing during our hike that this was so different than the previous eight days because it really did become a layer of like it felt like a layer of reality TV that didn't exist before where like you're pretending that in the navigation that the camera crew wasn't there right and then in your alibi it's like you're you're already lying about your alibi and now I feel like there's a layer of that and then a layer about the reality TV kind of lying and pretending it was all just kind of jarring and disturbing in that sense what's interesting to me is

like how your brain worked in this though because the way my brain worked is up until this day hear me out this is a tangent i'm going to go on real quick please every challenge was a simulation of some kind of an experience that you would go through in the military right right so then they're faced with as a show how do we simulate capture an interrogation yeah And in my mind, it made kind of sense because it's like your truth, like your truth is you are on a show called Special Forces, right? Right, right. We have just been told you need to come up with an alibi.

Forget anything that's happening right now. You have to come up with an alibi, right? Yeah, okay. So now you have truth and your falsified truth that you're supposed to go with. That's what we were told. The challenge of the whole thing was come up with an alibi that you can keep.

So if in the real world we were captured and we were special forces, the truth we cannot share is that we are military. Agreed. So you come up with an alibi. So we had to maintain an alibi

all the while these professional interrogators knew the truth. So what they did to kind of simulate real stress and panic was mess with us by interjecting these little points

of like when they brought me in and they're like, but who's that? Like they're so obvious to know it's a lie but they're trying so hard to break you. Does that make sense? Yeah. And spoiler alert.

Your boy just ain't the brightest tool in the shed. That's not true. You just can't lie. Big doofus Andy. Can't freaking fix. it out. I was so confused because I agree. I get the alibi thing. Fine. But it gets really confusing in the moment because you're like, Frick, you just said my name. Do I tell you that's my name?

It was literally a whole web of lies that I couldn't live with. I couldn't deal with it and I can't exist in that environment. All I want to do is tell the truth and live life like it. Because they said the other group doesn't exist. Okay, fine. They don't exist. I'm like following the rules. and then there's also like okay hide your light there's like what they what we there's the alibi part of it then there was a specific you got too literal i clearly did not do well in the situation but last thing i want to say for the setup is i felt like the whole time like we have this uh the power dynamics of these authoritarian figures of the ds who like you do a great job if you do what you are told it's like here's a fear we're telling you to go confront it do it right

great yes sir boom okay i felt like that honestly that whole dynamic which i know is a hostage and capture simulation so like duh i should have had a little more awareness about that but like it was such a violation in my mind it was such a departure from this precious little insulated time that we had together. Obviously. But they bring in this, so our understanding they are the enemy, babe.

But you're like, I did not get that. I didn't get it because they're in the cahoots with the DS and like, you all know watching TV in the previous episodes are like back there hanging out.

He's just an honest man. I just couldn't do it. You're too honest. But our understanding of how this works is they pretty much like this interrogation crew, it's almost like they're their own little company

like in real life, and they're hired in to come in here, which we didn't realize this in the moment. But like they have, it's almost like a, like legal standards or procedures they have to follow of like rotating us through their stress positions.

They couldn't hold us in certain ones for too long. They had this water loophole where like they would come around every now and then ask for water. You could ask to go to the bathroom at any point. So we saw the umpire twice, the guy you never see the face of on TV. You get brought in there.

And I think it was before even the first interview we had, they take your hood off. I literally could not open my eyes because it was so bright. You were ridiculous with that. You were like. I literally could not open my eyes. No, this was, I did that in my first interview, but this was even before. The umpire one was rough. I couldn't see either.

So the empire, yeah, you have like a LED light shining in your eyes. He pulls your hat off and he like says, hey, here's the quick rules. It probably lasted 20 seconds. He said you can ask to go to the bathroom anytime. If you are uncomfortable, then I, like, talk to me. I'm your source of reality or something. something. Yeah. He's the, yeah. So then there's another layer. Then I'm like, interesting. How do I do this? Anyway, they're like this outside company and they have this

procedure. It's almost like a game. No. Do you know why? Do you know why? No. They explained this. This is how it happens. This is like, even me saying now, like they put it, they would change our position, our stress positions every like random time. It's not random. It's like a psychologically calculated stress, duress program that they use for the military. They are all former military. It's great.

I get that part. My mind... It's not a game. It's literally like... But these, the company that does this, I think you could like hire them to like come do this and see if you can make it through an interrogation with your buddies.

That's my understanding how they work. And they have a scorecard. Well, not the umpire because he's literally... Yeah. Military. So that's just some background. The bathroom thing should have played a little more into because Sean asked to go to the bathroom.

Actually, all the girls did frequently. In my mind, I was like, I don't want to raise any red flags and get these guys mad at me because I'm a hostage. I know. Like, that's where my mind was at. It was like, don't do anything that would make them mad at me. Let me also just say, going to the bathroom, it's not like it was a break. You didn't get to take your mask off.

The only thing they took off was the headphones because they were hooked up, but you literally were like shuffling with your mask on and they would like literally help strip me down because I couldn't see anything. And they would sit me on the toilet and I would literally hold out my hand and they'd give me toilet paper and they would like help me. Oh yeah like you can't. Oh that's funny.

So okay it's like imagine as a viewer it's a game you don't feel that in the moment as a hostage. No it feels terrifying. I feel like one thing they tried to do in this episode that they did differently they did do differently than past episodes is like the explanation like Billy opened up with

and then they were kind of narrating throughout out. I will also say Rudy in our briefing going into this challenge, he said, so I remember, I think Brie asked him, like, or someone asked him, how do we know that it's the end or whatever? And he said, this time is different. This evolution is different, which he always said evolution. Yeah, he did. A rescue team is coming and will come to get you. Important to keep in mind for later. If you've ever stood in your kitchen at 5 p.m. thinking, how is it already dinner time again? You get us. Our kids are wildly picky. Their favorites change every hour. And I was honestly desperate for something that made meal time less chaotic. And also a little jealous of how good their food looks now. Yes. This podcast is sponsored by Nurture Life. Nurture Life is a meal delivery service that makes nutritious meals and snacks your kids actually want to eat. Their whole menu is perfect for kids ages 10 months to 10 years old. Their meals are fresh, fully cooked, and ready in just one minute.

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share with any parent friends who could use easier meal times put your little ones first with healthy meals from nurture life i just want to say you you said this is how the actual military does it i agree that it was like methodical but i don't know if they have scorecards like if you're an actual hostage you're supposed to keep the alibi like i'm not here with the special forces right yeah and we were told not to talk about home not talk about social forces so like you don't have a score of like oh yeah he's like doing a good job building rapport there's no third party things just didn't understand that layer of it but we didn't know that they had a scorecard in the beginning like we didn't know there was a scorecard i know so that's why i did what i that you know

part of the reason i'm just a big big dude who head anyway so i don't think again i think you're getting so caught up in this idea that like you overthought that it was a game rather than following what they said which was like build a rapport stayed true to your alibi you know what they didn't show was like you gave a different name to start and then you changed it once again fox helped me out in certain areas and made me look worse in other areas and you're literally they're like what's your name and he's like dean i didn't even say my and then you backtracked to know my name is it's actually andrews then you're caught in a lie it's like that kind of stuff is

they didn't show that well as to why you failed because everything they showed that like failed you was what everybody else did. Well yeah but why would I fail if it's some random hostage guy that doesn't know my name. You know what I'm saying?

Because you didn't keep the lie. If you say my name's Dean and they're like no I think it's Andrew then you say no my name's Dean. I'm a bad liar, okay. You don't say oh yeah it's actually Andrew. No that's fine. So you will know

noticed that situationally, they said, because there's comments about this too, oh, they said build rapport. The little Scottish lady said, you could have been a little more friendly to me. You contrast that with like, no, they said that to whoever, I forget whoever else. But it's like, okay, what do you mean by friendly? In my mind, I'm like, oh, I'm just here as a hostage and I'm not guilty. He asked my name. I'm going to have a conversation. This is how we build rapport. We're going to have a little conversation. They, what is it mean? What is it? to be, what they said on one hand and you were expected to do on one hand would fail you on the other. So it's just like, it was a fragile. I'm just going to say this. And this is as your wife

because you're literally the greatest human I've ever met my life. Baby, sometimes the words you choose come out a little odd. So like when you're like, yeah, you've made a mistake and you say that to the guy. That's not like, that wasn't great. You're not painting yourself as like a small little like, oh, I'm just here to please you. You're literally like, bro. And then when they say at one point, should we test this? You're like, yeah, we should test this. And it's like, okay, chill the freak out, Andrew.

This is me weaving in and out of the different realities that I'm trying to live in. Someone said it was like watching Andrew's wheels turn live on TV and they were turning so slowly, which I totally get that. My entire strategy was just this act as if this person has. complete authority. So I, it was like, right. Don't say right because you didn't do that. So I was like, yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am.

I'm so sorry to disappoint you. I'm so sorry to make you upset. I didn't mean to make you upset. I just want to be here to answer your questions, ma'am. Yeah, like it was, it was so overly just like, I want nothing. And you're over here like, yeah, let's test it. What's your name though?

And it's just like, babe, that's not, you're not painting the rapport of this person could, because the rapport they tell you to build is with someone who will kill you if you don't abide. And testing them saying like, well, what's your name? How are, like, what's your name is building rapport? So easily it could be. Is that how it came across, Andrew? What's your name? I didn't.

Okay. Note taken, you know, I'll take the feedback. I feel like it's worth saying that also as a viewer on TV, there's, they got like background music, obviously you're a third party looking at this conversation happen. Put yourself in the shoes of being in that room, being yelled at and there's, it's dead quiet. No one else in there. It is intimidating and vulnerable and intimate. So what happened for literally 12, 18 plus hours is we went through these like evolutions over and over and over again at varying times. You would be in stress positions for one, two, three hours, you'd get pulled out to the square.

You'd be screamed at by interrogators asked really confusing questions that would contradict everything that you'd said like you had said before. So you were just so always confused. and then you'd be taken out to the square and you would be beasted where you would have to do workouts and be screamed at and be like, if only you tell me a different answer I'll let you stop, but you can't.

And then you would deny or keep your alibi and they would put you straight back in the stress positions. And we would just do this over and over and over again. It would be solo or it would be with another person or it would be with it in a trio.

They would bring out me, Brea, and Cody or they would bring out me and Andrew or they would bring out me, Gia and Andrew and you would just keep going and they just kept challenging your alibi in such confusing ways even with like well you're, well Andrew your husband's here

and he told me this and then I'd have to think on the spot and be like we're told that they don't exist but again this is how they're playing games with us can we keep an alibi so they made the comment of recruits were being held overnight

and like that's such a that is such a harsh way of summarizing what we went through because it was literally hours they just cut out hours of us suffering in this room and I was getting so worked up in my mind at some point one I lost so much heart when through the bottom of my bag I saw that it was sunlight yeah and that that was my finish line was when the sun comes up this has to end like I'm sure that's when it's gonna end

and it didn't end until like 4 p.m. But then I was also getting and you're in this hot freaking room with this bag over your head that's hot again we can't see through you can't breathe in it i'm sweating in there and i started thinking i can't believe they're doing this to us i know in the episode on tv they're going to show two seconds of us sitting here i know this is so unnecessary i remember thinking that so many times it's like we could do this in four hours yeah they could they could get whatever freaking footage they need in two minutes and then we don't have to go through this but they're making us go through this i got the

idea in the first couple hours. I was like, yeah, I get it. Oh, it was wild. So, very confusing, very hot. So they end up getting to a point where they bring me in, they're confusing Andrew and I, they're painting this like, they're, they're challenging our alibis, which we've both said, like, our husbands or our wife, or like, my husband and my wife is not here. And then they bring us in. They're like, but who's that? And you're like, I don't know what the frick to say now. I just said my, I said the same thing you did. I was like, my husband's at home watching the kids.

And then you're there, and I'm like, he must have flown to Morocco. And that's what you said. Yeah, I don't know. And they're like, he just shows up. I thought he's supposed to watching your kids. And I'm like, he's a phenomenal father. He set up childcare. I don't know, you know, whatever.

And then they do the dunking scene. So what you guys didn't see behind the scenes is this, Andrew and I had made a pact early on. We knew they were going to mess with us. We knew they were going to try to mess with our marriage. When they were like, are you going to dunk your wife? In my head, I was like, you know he is, because he's not weak, and our marriage isn't weak, and that's not going to break us.

So in my head, I was like, yeah. And then they're like, do you know he's having an affair with Gia? And I was like, you're not going to break our marriage. We're stronger than that. Come up with something better. And so Gio was the same way. We were all locked in. And then when they paint over this, like, he should be doing something.

I was like, get, what? Well, we were strong. Just like you said, your thing was their ultimate authority. So do what they say. Yes. So that's one thing that's going through my mind. Yes. And I will apologize.

One second. You don't need to apologize. The other thing that's going through my mind is I don't want to bring you more to the attention or put you on the radar and do something or say something that then you suffer more. And in my mind, we had each just had two stories where, I was not your wife and you were not my husband. So it's like in the moment, you literally were thinking, well, if I say that, she's going to get called out for lying to.

It was so confusing. Super confusing. By the way, they glossed over the affair thing. That was probably like 15 minutes in real life of getting yelled at back and forth. And then they like, it was just very confusing. And I was still not sure if I should be like, is, am I pretending that she's not here still? because I don't know what to do now that she's right in front of me

and they said, pretend like she's not here. Anyway, Sean and I had this thing that we said, we're going to, you know, go to the end. Yeah. And help each other get there in whatever way. So I would like, don't get Sean on the radar. We also were in this hot room.

Here's this tub that we've been in multiple times before. We did this on episode one. Everyone's getting freaking dunked. In episode two, we trained. the breath hold, I very well knew your capacity. We've been in this bath. It's cold. It's not cold water.

It is, it is reasonable. It's refreshing water. Refreshing compared to the Moroccan heat that we're baking in. And I was like, okay, I also don't know if I'm supposed to be pretending like this is me drowning her. I don't get it. Yeah. And also, do they want me to admit that she's my wife? At the end of the day, I am sorry because I feel like.

It was just, I'm an idiot. That's what it comes down to. The only quality. And we've been sitting and rolling in this dust. And we had a safe word. It was shown in the clip of the sickener that we had a safe word. We were making eye contact. What were our safe words?

Do you remember them? I don't. The dogs, remember that the name of our dogs? Nash and ugly. And if she said Nash, I mean, she didn't need help. We had this whole system of like, I knew if she was struggling. So I will admit, though, G and I did not. So I'm wrong there.

No, Gia will be the first to say, like, shoot, we felt safer having you dunk us than the interrogators. And I'll say this, you can accept an apology to yourself because I know you had like a lot of moral turmoil through that. I hear your apology. I can receive it, but it's also, it was never needed for me. I would have been pissed at you in the moment if you didn't do it. because in my mind that was putting a target on your back my husband's back

and it was like I needed you to dunk me and do what they said because I needed to protect my husband if that makes sense you needed we were in the same boat so stop it so dumb interrogators you can't get between our marriage

but anyways that was kind of the final straw for Andrew they saw that as failing so they pulled you they take you into a room and they say you failed they say they say stay silent in one situation and then you do that and it was not the right situation and what i am here's one thing i learned mental toughness yeah i'm good at we said like in the in that athletes physical mentality of i can just shut my mind off and do as i'm told no thinking i can just like make my body do whatever is asked just like you understood emotions differently through the show

one of my takeaways was mental toughness and in the realm of like now in this phase of life with family and teams mental toughness is being able to keep a quiet mind while having discernment and awareness around others so that's one thing okay and i am sorry that i didn't prioritize you more watching gina no no no watching gia and her i feel like gia and brie had this we talked about the athletes versus non-athletes their ability to talk back to authority we didn't have that and i feel like i could use a little more of that of like just the wittiness or the state of mind to be able to do that so just I should have been able to do that

and I learned something through it I learned something through it of being able to talk back I know you're processing through this and I will say I receive your apology again but I do need you to stop apologizing for it because there was never an apology needed to me ever just so you know I need you to know that in your heart okay thank you

What? No, no, no. It's just been an interesting thing for, again, me to be in contrast to the other storyline that was told in that where another recruit stayed silent. And it was like, you're in spite of women. And I'm like, oh, how do I, how do I avoid that? I just want to avoid that because I love you. You're ready to move on.

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I was also, I felt like the only one that, from our conversations, people were freaking grabbing. I went six hours longer than you. That's probably why I got to sit. Fair. Yeah. Fair. But the grabbing thing, they crossed a line with you that they never did with me. I couldn't believe he grabbed your face.

Yeah. And like did the sh thing. Yeah, that was wild. It was crazy. Got intense. And that's when I snapped back into, let me just be quiet. So I get pulled. son's up they leave me to this room they pull my head off my they pull my uh they pull my bag off

and i legit thought i won i see the umpire and then he gives a very brief thing saying hey you've failed the past requirements or meet the requirements for this phase we're pulling your number do you understand and i was so upset one because i realized i'm going home and sean's still in there and now we're not together anymore. Not that you freaking need me. Not that you need me. But like, we're part. And this was gnarly.

And I don't like the thought of not being in there with her. So, and then Rudy came in and gave me a hug. I was so regretful at that moment for the next five hours that I even did the show. Oh, very.

And honestly, sometimes I think would have been better if I didn't do the show. I don't know. I don't know. Because I just feel like, what? No.

This is like a spiral. I'm not sure how to deal with it I want to support you I was in a bad place I was in a bad place yeah but you're still curious if you should have ever have done the show

the last day was so gnarly it it was everything was all fun in games until the last day and then it was like legit torture so anyway I leave Rudy gives me a hug walk out these metal gates

go to this little trailer go do a psyche val everyone's like high five me saying great job I'm like I'm like a freaking wall got no emotion and I'm upset and they do this exit interview that they showed a quick second of and they're like trying to like get quotes out of me I'm like I just got tortured dude

don't freaking talk to me let me go home and be quiet and not have these headphones screaming on my head anyway then I go home and Sean's still there so let's pick up there what did you do when you got home or when you got back to the hotel waited for you I'm out here go ahead Just baptizing these girls in the Moroccan freaking bathwater. A bunch of freaking big doofy Andrew. Go ahead. I need to make sure you're okay. That's what I'm really confused with right now.

It got weird, dude. What are you questioning about yourself that is causing you to feel so regretful of the even choice to have gone on the show the whole show is being put in situations you didn't want to be in right yeah now is a pinocle of it for me and so and then I'm like I really don't don't need to be in that situation you know so there's a lot of things that I'm like that I think about but I'm okay to answer your question and I can't change what I did but I can't change how I can act moving forward so that's what we're going to do and yeah I don't know what I don't know I got a lot to learn freaking clearly not quick thinking on my feet I got more of a a poet's minds than a

rappers you know freaking can't come up with the quick but we'll come up with it if you give me some time and I just see you as my equal that doesn't need my freaking help and you're out here like I don't I don't know I just want to help you more than I hurt you, you know? And then it's like, okay, did I... Why do you feel like you hurt me? Because I don't feel like you did a single thing to hurt me, if anything... In my mind, I felt like I was supporting you by not, like, putting you on the interrogator's radar.

Which you did. Okay. But then, I feel like the storyline was, you heard her. But you lived the actual... moment, the edit created a narrative. They added the screams in there and everything. It's like...

So are you going to believe what you witnessed on TV, or are you going to believe what actually happened and how I'm telling you how I felt and lived in a moment? Are you going to believe that or the TV? I appreciate that. I am listening to you. I would feel like I would be... Again, how do you end up in some weird place in life

two decades from now? It's not considering that, oh, maybe that was wrong. And so I'm using however they edited that as like, oh, I didn't see it like that. And what do I need to adjust moving forward? I know, but you also can't falsely believe a narrative that comes with the drama of a show. You can believe the narrative of, you are a great human being. they did not encompass all 18 hours of torture you knew me and Gia well enough in that moment to know

if we were under duress if we were uncomfortable if we were panicked you even said it yourself you've calculated all about you calculated it in the moment so rather maybe rather than saying out loud in the moment, it's comfortable water, it's 120 degrees out. I can tell when my wife is panicked. I know her, like abilities. I know Gia. I know Gia's panicked eyes. I've been with her for the past 10 days. Rather than saying that out loud, you internalized all of these calculations and said, at the moment, this feels like the best situation to give everybody the best shot

at getting out of this. You dunked us what? Twice? I think they instantly replayed it a couple of times. So don't believe false narrative of something that someone's created and chopped together. They gave a narrative as to why they got you off the show. Thank you. I love you. Thank you. This is good that we're doing this.

You're spiraling into a self-deprecation black hole, of my husband that needs to come back out because you are a phenomenal human being who did a phenomenal job on this show. We got to live once in a life experiences that we actually got to learn so much about each other. That day sucked. Nothing takes that away. It sucked. We don't want to do it again. But don't let that narrative that you witnessed on TV change every aspect of what we grew together to learn in a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I mean, it was legit torture, as you could tell. It was legit torture.

Anyway, okay, but you tell your side of the story. After Andrew left, it was truly just rinse and repeat. We did this for, I don't even know how many more hours. I don't even know when it was you left. There was no way to tell. I do remember at one point they brought us out on the square, and they were like, look around who's missing and they made a point to say like it's your husband and in my mind we had been brought out in such disjointed numbers like i said they would bring you out solo they

bring you out to another person you would resurface someone that you hadn't seen for a few hours in my mind you weren't gone you were just being held somewhere else and i was like okay cool way to get to me you know whatever so it was rinse and repeat for quite a few hours. We kept doing workouts, being screamed up, more interrogations, all these things. And I just will never forget walking out onto the square thinking, here we go again. And, well, first, the buried alive, that was like second to the last thing we did, which is where they put you in the mud pit, I stand by this. With the headphones on and the stress positions, that was awful.

You just didn't want to be there. It was awful. When they walked me out and they're like, lay down and get in, and I could very clearly tell what they were going to do, it was glorious. That mud was cool. I didn't have the headphones on. I didn't have the mask on. I was like, you know what? Put the top on.

Let me take a nap for a few hours. I'll see you. See you later. There was nothing about that that bothered me. So after that, they put the bag back on you. We went back into stress positions for a couple more hours. Then they pulled us back out onto the square. And I'll never forget when they took that hood off.

And I looked over and it was just me and Gio. and then all the DS were out for the very first time. Wow. I still didn't believe it. I was like, what do we do now? Tell them what happened next, what they said to you. So then one by one, each guy, each DS goes and gives like a recap of why they believe you should or should not pass the course

and come stand next to them. Gia goes first, one by one. It's so complimentary. It's like you grew, you matured. they said we never believed it but like you're here and we're so proud of you it was like compliment compliment compliment four times and then they go to me

and it is just like no compliment none whatsoever can't trust you don't know who you are you're too robotic all these things and I was like is this a gym am I going to get failed literally witnessing the finish line and then they're like

10 and 18 congratulations and I was like ha ha this feels great so I like get up on the stage and we're hugging and stuff and in my mind I'm like what am I do you actually want me up here it was really weird

because of what they just told you yeah which they edited it to be you know more complimentary but then then it was crazy because they're just like yeah let's go get a photo shoot for the finalists it's so jarring and Gia and I were like okay

might need to like decompress for a second so it's wild how quickly they try to like snap you out of like you're no longer on the show you go and see a psychiatrist and they're like telling you what they witnessed

and they're asking you do you want a Coke do you want ice cream and you're just like I don't know it is a lot to take in it's a very harsh snap back to the real world and all I remember like going I remember going through the motions this whole time

and it was fun like I was I kind of snapped out of it but also hadn't decompressed and I got to go to the hotel after probably another four hours with you I got to meet back up with you and we got to go to this hotel it was like a bed and breakfast and it was like straight out of Aladdin

There was this woman who lived there And she made us this beautiful meal And I got to finally take a shower And you and I just kind of got to like Take a deep breath You took a shower That shower was crazy full of mud after With all the...

You should have seen what they made me and Gia do in the mud It was just like it was laying down in it No we just We had to like belly crawl Roll they would like say scoop it up in your hands And rub it all over your face And then go rubbing in that roll in the sand and it was just like it was just like demeaning it was just how much can we

make you uncomfortable and hate this which again it's it just felt different than like a crazy cool challenge yeah you knew it was going to be filmed like you knew this was being filmed but it wasn't like it just felt unnecessary is a word that comes to mind but i'm curious okay so the sequence of events so sean takes a shower to hotel we had a dinner there and then you were there for maybe two hours. Yeah. Before we loaded up in this sprinter van, Randall, who had been at the Airbnb the whole day, me and you, and we took a five or six hour car ride through the night to get to Casablanca for a flight out.

We got into Casablanca at 2 a.m. I wish there was a video of me, Andrew, and Randall all in the back of this car because we were like basically on top of each other just passed out. Yeah, it was, yeah, we were all kind of just detox, I think. Then we fly from Casablanca to... Like literally within a couple hours of finishing the show, we're on a plane. Casablanca to Toronto or something like that, and then Toronto to Nashville. Anyway, it all happened very quickly, and then you unwind, like, you snap out of it so quickly. But, sorry, you transition back into the real life so quickly.

So fast, but you still have to figure out. It took, it probably took. us a week we so this was a very hard choice for us to make but we ended up doing this thing it was after you get assigned a psychiatrist that you have to meet with a few times for like four months um we had a vacation planned it was two nights three days before we booked this show it was in the caribbean it was you and i with another friend group with without our kids and we had just left our kids for so long and i remember the psychiatrist asking us if there was any chance we could get away for a couple days, just you and I, because we needed

to be able to do that to kind of like reestablish reality. So we go home for, I think, two weeks and we're like easing back into everyday life. We go on this trip after two weeks for the two days. And I felt like it was after that trip. I felt completely normal again. I felt like I could, I knew how to regulate my emotions again. I knew everything. I feel like it took me a couple weeks to transition back psychologically and then legitimately like two or three months to heal physically well you had broken ribs it was gnarly um what an experience a couple closing thoughts one i feel like i have uh psychological resilience but not psychological wit something for me to work on and think about there i do feel like my i'm gonna not accept that statement my it's

not like a i know but you've self-deprecated enough this episode said. It's fascinating for me to think about what does support look like as your husband. I'm the husband of this incredibly talented capable woman. And I am the wife of this incredibly talented and capable of husband. It's interesting. Like do I was it support of betrayal things like even like no I'm not I'm not revisiting. I know but it's like you shouldn't even be letting your brain go down this because these are lies. I appreciate that. I think that I think that I think that resolved the issue. I think, really, I love supporting you. And that's what I want to do. And that's how I close that out. Don't let the freaking devil win. You're wrapping, you're circling around

lies and you need to reject them, not humor them. I appreciate that. Well, I just, I'm just a simple guy who wants to tell truth, be helpful and get cool stuff done and not live in this web of lies. That's my, that's my closing fact. I want you to know you are amazing. And you did an amazing job, and I'm so impressed with you. I'm sorry if I'm taking your steam. If I'm taking your limelight right now. It's all freaking, it should be all about you, dude. It's all about you.

It's not. We both made it to the final. I'm glad. And you're not taking my limelight. There's no limelight to be had. I, as a wife, am just pissed about how you're speaking about my husband. And I don't agree with how you're speaking. And I need you to know that you are amazing and did a phenomenal job.

and I'm so proud of you, and you should not have regrets. You should be proud of what you did. I think the end was very subjective and confusing. And that doesn't paint a picture of who's more or less capable or more quick-witted or less or not. I don't think it shows more strength than not. I think anybody who makes it to that last day finishes the course. I think that last day is confusing and hard.

I love you. I feel like you're the best team I could ask for. I love you. When Sean wins, the team wins, which means we stack in dubs out here, dude. When Andrew wins, the team wins. It's not a, if, it's not just a me thing. We are a team.

I love you. This reality TV thing is savage. It is. Savage. Now you're going to go on dancing with the stars. Get ready, guys. Is there anything? We're going to need a whole empire of people to lift him up.

No, I'm good. Any other closing thoughts there? That was crazy. Great job. You ready for the All-Star season? Oh, man. Thanks for watching, guys. What a series.

Maybe we'll do a live stream. I'm not sure. That's all we have for the Special Forces episodic debrief. I'm Andrew. I'm Sean. Until next time.