Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 295 | a new series we never planned

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

Well... This series wasn’t planned. It started with us unpacking three phrases that have hit our marriage the hardest: “It’s not my job to make you happy.” “We don’t need each other.” “I’m going to let you down.” Each episode breaks down one of these conversation starters—and what followed was not easy. There are tears. There are real-time arguments. And there are very honest conversations we almost kept private. This is Part 1 of a three-part series. Parts 2 and 3 are coming over the next two weeks—stay tuned. We’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. Do you agree? Have you had these conversations in your own relationship? ALSO — we have a BOOK. We’re so excited to finally share The Courage to Commit, releasing June 9, 2026. Pre-orders are available here: https://www.thecouragetocommit.comLove you guys!Shawn & Andrew Caraway ▶Caraway’s cookware set is a favorite for a reason — it can save you up to $190 versus buying the items individually. Plus, if you visit https://www.Carawayhome.com/EASTFAM, you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. Wildgrain ▶ Right now, Wildgrain is offering our listeners $30 off your first box plus free Croissants for life when you go to https://www.Wildgrain.com/EASTFAM to start your subscription today. Cove ▶ Make protecting your home one of your New Year’s resolutions! Check out Cove at https://www.covesmart.com/eastfam or use code EASTFAM at checkout for up to 70% off your first order. And if you get a survey, be sure to let them know you heard about Cove from this podcast. OLIPOP ▶ Right now, you can actually get a free can of OLIPOP. Just buy any two cans in-store — any flavor, any retailer — and they’ll pay you back for one. Go to https://www.drinkolipop.com/COUPLETHINGS for all the details Follow our podcast Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/shawnandandrewpods/ Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Shop My LTK Page ▶ https://www.shopltk.com/explore/shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. We've got a new series for you. It's one that we did not intend to film, but it kind of fell together. The way it fell together is Andrew said three different sayings that equally irked Sean, and we thought, wow, maybe we should make this a series. They are consistent, and they've been with us for 12 years.

And I thought we should talk about them. I will preface this by saying, you're going to see some tears and some live arguments, but stick with it. And please, please interact down below and tell us what you think. Maybe not who's right or wrong because we don't need to start more arguments, but where you stand on the argument. I would like to do this. We're going to do a three-part series. Okay.

The first of the series is, I'm not here to make you happy. Which, if you guys have been with us for a while, we have already done this episode. This will be a reposting, but trust me, it makes sense for the next two to come. And that'll be today's episode. Yes. then the next episode will be we don't need each other Oh boy

And then lastly it's I will let you down Okay again these are all things I've said to Sean And these actually are all episodes that I wanted to do Because I thought wow that's such a profound concept And then they didn't hit like I wanted them to You're gonna see me get pissed And then you're gonna see me get sad And then you're gonna see us kind of debated out

So here's to some real life combos You said some cuss words that got intense there for a second But I want to do the three parts and let's do a live stream afterwards so I can get berated by the internet online. Maybe we should do a live with a therapist to actually get a professional's advice. I'm down. Anyway, we're excited to start this series. Again, this was kind of happenstance, but we filmed these back to back. We said, wait, these are all kind of similar in how equally offended they make Sean.

And that's not my intention, which is what makes it so interesting. So let's dive into episode one of, it's not my job to make you happy. It's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. Today's podcast is all about how marriage is not about happiness. That's right.

Which is probably our biggest argument we've ever gotten in. I remember it was our fifth date, my first time in Iowa, and we're playing tennis. I don't know what park that was, but we're playing tennis. And I said, Sean, I got to tell you something. She was like, what?

We met at the net. Yeah. And I was like, I'm not here to make you happy. Who does that? One, also disrespectful. No, I mean, it's the delivery that makes a difference. Bad timing. That's right.

Those are all probably true things. They were. And you still stand by it. I do. And that's the title of today's episode. And it's always funny because you like to bring it back up and you're like, you know what? That's not something I care about.

Happiness. Making me happy. And it's like, wow, all righty. I'm clearly doing a great job at not making you happy. So mission accomplished. We did an episode with the corridors the other day, and it came up that marriage might not have the explicit purpose or the main purpose of personal fulfillment, right?

I think sometimes it's a fine line between thinking, this relationship helps me be happy, and that's my main goal. Or a result of this relationship is me being healthy, but that's not the main focus. Yes. I'm equating fulfillment and happiness here. Sorry, you said healthy. Sorry, happy.

Happy. So, we wanted to talk about that. Kind of just discover this together. Yeah. And I don't think that marriage is all about your happiness. This topic might sound a little countercultural. I know. I think we're still sorting through it.

But we're going to unpack why marriage is still worth fighting for even when it's hard and even through the unhappy seasons and how we have shifted our mindset while going through those rough seasons. Let's just back up first before we dive in. Life updates, guys. We are running on little sleep and are a lot less than me, but that's usual. I don't know how you do that. You don't sleep. I was anti-cafine before kids. I was like not into coffee. Definitely frowned upon energy drinks.

But caffeine. But you also like can operate without sleep. I really can't. No, I really cannot. But here's the techniques I have. But you wake up at 4 a.m. I have developed. I woke up at 4.30 today.

We had to do a we had a 5 a.m. meeting today. Yeah, we can't tell you why. Which is absurd. But it was fun. And I woke up at 4.30. And then I did my workout and I did a sauna. and then I did, uh, then you swam.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You thrive. But we just come back last night. We landed at 12 at midnight. We were so honored and don't know how we got this, you know, title, but, or job. We got to go host one of the annual fundraisers in New York City for Make-O-Wish, which is really cool.

It was really fun. We were at Good Morning America Studios, my first time there. Sean was reliving memory. of your previous times being in that studio. Yeah. But we got to kind of steward the night and be the guides through the night, which was fun. We met a lot of good people,

and that's something we want to do more of. Yeah. I do want to say, though, it did feel a little funny to sit down here and you're like, you literally prefaced today and said, we're going to have some, like, we're going to have to navigate today, you know, a little more cautiously,

because we're tired, we're running on less sleep, and you sit down and you say, you know which podcast we're going to do today? We're going to go all the way to the bottom of the list, and we're going to pick that one. I'm excited about this. And in my brain, I'm like, that is so interesting to me. Well, thank you for playing along.

The reason I want to do this episode is because I think it's important. And I think when you change your expectations or how something might unravel itself or you change your grip on the style that you think it should pan out, actually it can lead to a wonderful thing. It can't. I still very strongly disagree with this. Okay, let's talk about it.

I'm pumped. You disagree with this. But do you think, is it true or false, that society puts too much pressure on marriage, make you happy. For sure. Okay. And I do agree that marriage isn't all about your happiness, but you still stand by this idea that it is not my job to make you happy. And I think, though at maybe a foundational level that's true, I do think in a marriage, that should be a goal. That should be at the forefront

of your mind to say, you know what, I just know I'm not going to make her happy. I know that's not my job. No, no, no, that's how you approach it. That is how you approach it. The title is marriage isn't about your happiness. That is the title. I know, but if you set your your soul expectations up to be like, that's not my job, then I do think you're approaching marriage in the wrong way. When I wake up in the morning, when I wake up in the morning, morning, it is not my main goal to, pander's an aggressive word, but pander to your fleeting feelings of happiness. I think happiness is a side effect of loving you well. But the reason I think you have it skewed a little bit is because you put emotions in an irrelevant category where you're like

those don't matter to where pandering to fleeting emotions though fleeting emotions emotions emotions are a clear indication of where your spouse is in any given moment in time Okay, true. If your only objective in marriage is to look at the 10,000-foot view of how is the marriage going at 10,000 feet, are we headed in the right direction, then I do think you are missing a major point in a marriage to be a best friend and a confidant and a supporter of the roller coasters of love. life you go through every moment of every day given what you are faced with because those fleeting emotions are important to notice and that's why that's why the like it's hard for us

to have argument sometimes and it's hard for me to ask you like I can tell you're kind of off today what's what's wrong and in your mind you're like it doesn't even matter yeah when it does it affects a marriage day in and day out. And if you can't acknowledge that and say it is important for me as a spouse to understand it, not to be the fixer of it, but to understand it. And it should be my job as a spouse to like want to understand you on a daily basis and want to do things that make you happen. if none of that is like a goal,

then I don't think the 10,000 foot view ends up working. Aren't you glad we're talking about this? Point taken. Point taken, I am open to, I'm open to expanding my perspective on this. I think where I, I have grown a deeper appreciation for the role of feelings because I think you're right.

They're actually, they're interesting. You know, they add color to life. We cannot both be beholden to our emotions. Like the roller coaster, imagine the volatility of that. So I'm just, I'm injecting this as more of a, hey, hey, I'm a third party. There needs to be a little separation from that. But I disagree. I completely disagree.

Because let's just go there when dad passed being beholden to your fleeting emotions in the roller coaster of life. If I'm not acknowledging in the moment your grief and sadness that will be fleeting because you'll be happy tomorrow thinking of memories. Okay. That's me not being a supportive wife in meeting you where you are. I don't think it's supportive if we're both drowning in emotion. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying one person should have a little more solid footing on the shore while the other person might be just basking.

And I think you can have solid footing without pandering, which is a really rough and tough word. Okay. I think me as a wife being able to say, baby, I see you're sad. And that's okay. 100%. No, I agree, but that's you being on solid footing.

That's not us both being wrecked, you know what I'm saying? I know, but if you wake up in the morning, you're like, it's not my job to pander to her roller coaster of emotions. Maybe a better way to say it is it is my job as a spouse to wake up and know what's going on with my spouse. I agree with that. I agree with that. And I think that's a difference of perspective. If I wake up every morning and be like, you know what, it's not my job to pander to my husband's emotions.

that's waking up to actively choose such a negative view on marriage, whereas it's better to acknowledge and say verbally. I think this goes back to the first time on date five when you decided to break the match up just to come tell me, I just want you to know here it's not my job to make you happy. It's like, wow, way to kill that vibe. and I think what you're failing to acknowledge is like what is your job

which is what we're about to talk about which is my main point of everything it's not I'm just thinking around don't make her happy don't make her happy it's not about her happiness it is that's not the main point the main point is what we're about to get into but go ahead

no go ahead I just think I don't think it's a good piece of advice to go out and tell married couples, make sure you know and acknowledge in the morning. Like, it's not my job to pander to it. I'm not saying that. I said, it is not my first thought when I wake up to think,

make her happy. Like, that's, I'm not saying that should be your first thought is, it's not about our happiness. I'm saying your first thought should be, I think, I think we're very much aligned. full engagement, high intentionality, present. But that is different than... But it is my job as your wife

to know when you're sad. Yes. And to support you to try to change that. Yes, and it's the support thing that I think is what I'm talking about here. So anyway, yeah, Sean, I mean, we've been through some hard things as a couple, right? We've been through some dark seasons.

And I feel like we overcame it because it was not, oh, we're not happy. So then now we're layered on guilt or like frustration because we're not happy. It's like the point was not the happiness, which is why we made it through some of these hard seasons well. Because the point was supporting each other. But we made it through the hard seasons because we could see in each other. we're not happy. So we need to fix that. Which means

coming back to joy and fulfillment, which a byproduct of that is happiness. Byproduct. I think you're trying to be a little more contrary than we actually feel. I think you're right in saying we should be aware that we're not happy. I don't think the way we've approached these dark seasons is like, we have to fix that now.

When my dad passed, that was not your, you were not like in fixed mode. Like, hey, let me get Andrew ice cream and back massages and toys. It was like, no, I'm here to support him. Ladies and gentlemen, we have been waiting a long time to finally say this out loud. And we are genuinely so excited to finally tell you. like heart racing excited because we have officially released the cover of our book and it feels so surreal to finally share this part of our journey with you the book is called the courage to commit embrace the radical power of sticking with something and it comes out June 9th, 2006.

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the thing that matters most to you. This book is for you. We cannot believe we get to say this, but The Courage to Commit is officially available for pre-order right now. You can go to The Courage to Commit.com to check out the cover, learn more about the book, and grab your copy early. And thank you all for being a part of this journey with us. Truly, this one means everything. It's a surreal moment for us, and we're so grateful. We are so excited to finally share it with you. So stay tuned for more. And that is different than like... But it's in a lot.

Because it is, it is me acknowledging emotions and feelings. You recognize what state I'm in. Okay. Which actually in and of itself makes me feel loved, right? Exactly. So for you to say feelings and emotions, I'm not a fan of. They don't matter. The 10,000 foot view matters.

I'm not using those words. I said marriage is not about your happiness. That's the title of this. You say, you know how I feel about emotions and feelings. They're fleeting. They don't matter. Like, it's about the deeper thing. Okay.

If I said I don't matter, maybe, maybe I did. I don't feel that way. My problem to your point is I do tend to like when I'm in bad seasons to think, hey, this, I'm going to be okay at some point. So this is, this doesn't really matter. You know what I'm saying? And that's where I disagree Because it matters

It matters to the storyline Of where you are And how to support each other in a marriage To find fulfillment And to find joy A byproduct of that is happiness So though the goal of marriage Is not to just always be happy

Because you're going to go through it I do think a goal of a marriage Is to see your spouse Where they are in any given moment so that you can help them get back to it. No, no, no. Sean, we really agree on this. I don't think we do.

You're saying the goal of a marriage is not happiness, it's to be there for your spouse, which is what I'm saying. The side effect of that is happiness. I'm not there to say, I got to make you happy, I got to make you happy. If I'm just ruminating on

Sean's not happy. Oh my gosh, she's not happy. In my timeline that I'm leaning on is like the moment, like right now, you know, you're not happy. But I'm like, no, this is an important conversation. So I'm going to be here present with you fully. But that doesn't make sense to what you said earlier about emotions and pandering to feelings doesn't matter because like you, it goes back to what I was saying when we talk about like, it's hard for me to ask you what's going, what's happening right now. Because like, if you feel off. Yeah, because I always think, It will be okay. Exactly.

Right. But that's not fair to a marriage and understanding and getting to know your spouse more. No, point second. I probably over-index on this. And I think that's where there's a disconnect in you, and I agree, it's not about happiness. It's about fulfillment and joy. We do agree. I know.

Okay. We do. But getting there, we are on vastly different sides. Okay. Because you think we'll just be there. because if you aren't dissecting it into a day-to-day chore of acknowledgement and active work to get back to joy and happiness, you think in the moment my sadness doesn't matter because it's fleeting. It does matter because if you aren't actively acknowledging it and working as a

couple and as a marriage to get back to joy, to get back to happiness, then the rumination and the issues will always be there. So then you won't find joy in fulfillment if you aren't meeting each other exactly where you are in a moment to try to work through it. No, no, no. I agree with everything you said, except, so I agree. We should meet together as a couple and work together. I think, though, the path does not lead to joy and fulfillment. Like, that's not the path that we're on in my mind. You're saying, we've got to get together so that we can get back to happiness. And that's the path we're trying to rediscover whenever we don't have it.

I'm saying the path is, is the getting back together. Like, that is the whole thing. It's not, no, no, it's not happiness. It is like the connection. it is like the connection and it is the you're going against what you're what you were saying if it is about the connection and getting back together then the roller coaster of emotions matter

because you can't get back together and connect and try to get on the same page without acknowledging where you're at so I think I disagree I think I disagree so if I were to ask you why are you sad today you're like, it doesn't matter because I know I'm not going to be sad in a week, so it's not even worth the conversation. Here's how I view emotions.

Oh. I am like I'm an audience member to, huh, this conversation is not going how I thought it would be. Okay. I'm not like all up in my head about it. You know, I'm not freaking out. I'm not living. I'm not writing on that.

I'm like, interesting. Okay. why is this not going like I expected it to? How does that make me feel? Oh, it's like a little uncomfortable. Okay. Oh, I'm a little like sad maybe. Interesting.

Okay. And I think the acknowledgement of that and understanding that in a spouse is important. I think that's the whole thing. I think. Then you are acknowledging that emotions and feelings do matter. I think I've said that from the beginning. You have not.

As you could tell, there's a lot of nuance. I think this is great. I think people are going to listen to this and be like, whoa, whoa, what? Maybe. I mean, I don't know how much I am contradicting myself. I do know. It is hard for me to talk about feelings in a fully self-aware manner. And I get confused with it.

That's why, like, when you do ask me, how are you? I'm like, what word do I say? I don't know. I'm like, fine. I just think it's because we read this book, Problem of pain as you're thinking about that by CS Lewis. And he uses this analogy of like pain is a fort, right? And there can be a flag of goodness still planted in that fort, right?

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Okay. So I'm saying the feelings are the level one thing. Pretty foundational and it is core to the human experience. But regardless, what is the goodness that can be present through the pain, through the joy? What's the goodness? And I think my thought on this is marriage doesn't have to come with being happy every single day. Okay. No, you know we agree on this.

We've said this. but it should be a goal it should be a goal to be a light and not to be a darkness and to feel what does that mean i'm saying i want to please you i want to honor you that doesn't always mean make you happy honoring you again that's like you get so stuck in that word which i think is interesting happiness is like a level one thing it's like a that's the fleeting like wow holy crap are we happy we sad we pissed what it is however However, however, on, I think if you're looking at a goal of a marriage, like what you want to end at, at the end of the week, the month, the year, a lifetime. It is joy, fulfillment.

I think some people would say safety or different things. I think, but what I'm saying is the happiness can come from, like, can you feel fulfilled in a marriage without feeling joy? Because if you truly are working to, like, know. Which comes first? What? The fulfillment or the joy. Which is the first milestone in the journey. I think they go hand in hand.

Because if you're only wanting to feel safe, I don't think that's to be fully known and fully loved because if you're fully known and fully loved, you're experiencing life on a different level of anyways, whatever the goal is, if you're dissecting that into tasks on a daily basis to achieve it, the more I know you about how you operate and how you think and how you feel, the more I can help support you to get you out of a funk. to find fulfillment and to find joy, which is, if that's not the goal, what's your goal in life?

To feel blah? No. To feel just like middle? Let me state this in a succinct manner. I believe the goal of a marriage is to come as close as you possibly can in the human experience to be, Fully known and fully loved.

Okay. I think that's what we're all desiring and hopeful in many different relationships in different ways, but most so in marriage. Okay. Biblically speaking, Andrew, in the Bible, there are feelings and emotions attached to Jesus. Yes. How does Jesus make people feel? not always good

I know or happy but when they come the closest to being like Jesus they feel what loved

okay in a byproduct of love 100% is joy and happiness no this is my whole point the main thing though I think you get

I think we get out of whack and things go awry when I say happiness is my core thing, my core objective, I think if you start there with that being the thing, the goal, it gets all messed up. I agree. Okay. But you're not acknowledging how to get there.

Because if you don't acknowledge that like talk about trying, okay, if you want to feel fully known, and fully love, the closest you can possibly be in the human experience. Then you need to know on a daily basis what trajectory you are on. Are you headed to be more loved and more known? Are you headed to be not known and not loved? And if you are trying to give people actionable items on a daily basis, on a daily basis to reach that. That would be a, let's start with self-reflection

of where you're at. What path are you on? And I think the individual daily check-in, like one by itself does not matter. I think, zooming out. I agree with that. But you see, like, there can be anomalies

where you're like, okay, hey, I'm tired today. For sure, and that's important to acknowledge. Yeah, but it's not the most important thing. It doesn't need to be consuming. Okay. But acknowledgement of, oh, here's a data point for Andrew. Yes. When Sean is tired.

Yes. It can lead her to jump on a different path. That's important to know. If you want to be fully known and fully loved, you have to understand the. complexities of who you're dealing with. You can't just approach every day like, oh, today's bad day, whatever. Brush it off, it'll be better tomorrow.

No, you've got to work through that. You brought up Jesus, and I'm just thinking of another verse that says, Husbands love your wives, like Jesus, love the church. I'm thinking about, okay, what did he do? A lot of it was sacrifice. And also, he fully knew you. Yes. Do you think he doesn't care about,

a sadness on a day? This is, no, I welcome this. I do need more of that mindset. Yes, I do need more of the sharing that, but it's still not about that. It is. It's super fascinating. It is.

Okay, okay, help us sort this out. We're going to be going on back and forth like this for two hours. So let's just talk about the cultural lie of happiness and let's maybe make it through this episode. So I feel like our culture and the books, the TV shows, the movies, magazines, headlines, give this idea that if something isn't making you happy, it is not worth pursuing. That is the core tenant that I push against. This could apply to jobs, your friends, spouses,

lifestyle changes. Did gymnastics always make you happy? Like, wow, did your coach always make you happy? No, that doesn't mean you run away from it. In that individual moment, which is why I'm saying you don't you don't tie your fate to the one feeling. But it's worth acknowledging. Yes. Because it asks for a self-reflective question of what is the purpose here. Okay. So purpose is different than happiness, though.

Anyway, with marriage, it's not designed for our happiness, I would argue. And it does take work. So in a lot of ways, this is opposite of what the culture says, okay? This is what I'm saying. So if marriage is not about happiness, what is it about? I think it's I think it is that being fully known and fully loved other people like Gary Thomas

says that marriage isn't here to make you happy it's here to make you holy which I think is also associated with being fully known and fully loved but actually let me just dive into that quote so I think that implies that happiness is fleeting and not always the best representation of what is worth pursuing.

I think that marriage is helping us grow in holiness rather than just making us happy. And so if I'm able to know you fully and love you, then I'm, there's this element of like change baked in in some ways, sanctification, you could say. But marriage can deepen our relationship with others and with God through that,

where it's like this mirror that you have to confront because of the depth of knowledge, of each other. So marriage is defined to mature us, refine us, and grow us. Other purposes and benefits of marriage. You're just going to steam all through this? Yeah.

Teamwork. I think I appreciate that about our marriage. I love that. Having the we mentality. Again, this is why. If I say, this marriage isn't making me happy and I need to be happy,

bro, you're freaking missing out on the teamwork. And the growth. I agree, but the teamwork is waking up as an individual and saying it is my job to support the we. Yes. And if one of us, we ain't having a good day, it's important for me to support we. 100% support.

Yeah, I like that. Okay, refinement of character. Wait, let's do a little ASMR on this one, right? Okay. Oh, my gosh. Listen, that sound alone feels like a personality reset. If you're watching, you can see we're holding the new Shirley Temple Oli Pop. And yes, we were very specifically told it has to be this flavor, which honestly, we are not mad about.

I don't know about you, but Shirley Temples were staples of my upbringing. I mean, they're amazing. This is Ali Pop's take on the classic Shirley Temple, and it's genuinely so good. I'm trying to have some of that? Yeah. Well, you just have your own. Why don't you just open your own? It tastes like the nostalgic drink you remember.

remember, but it's brighter, bolder, and made with real ingredients you can actually feel good about. What I love about olipop is that it's a new kind of soda. It still has that classic soda taste, but it's made with a functional ingredient blend that supports digestive health, plus it's high in fiber and low in sugar. We just got one of Sean's friends hooked on this. She says she's having six olive pops a day. That's a lot. It's a lot, but I totally get it because it's so good. Anyway, the ingredients make a big difference when compared to traditional soda. Yep. You get all the fun, fizzy, satisfying experience,

but you don't get the heavy, sugary feeling afterward. And honestly, the timing is perfect. They're launching the Shirley Temple flavor for dry January. And it really is the original moktail that made not drinking feel fun. It feels festive, nostalgic, and still totally PG. It's just one of those drinks that feels like a treat but fits into your routine. And right now you can actually get a free can of olypop just by any two-can. in store, any flavor, any retailer, and they'll pay you back for one more.

Have you ever heard of that? No. That's a crazy deal. I love it. I want to try that out right now. Anyway, go to drinkollipop.com slash couple things for all the details. That's drinkollipop.com slash couple things. Ollipop is also sold online at drinkollipop.com and Amazon.

And you can find it in the soda aisle and with chilled beverages at thousands of retailers nationwide, including Walmart and Target. If you haven't tried OliPop, you just. You're going to love it. You're welcome in advance. And I'm pumped to much, really simple. It's my favorite drink. When things don't go our way in marriage, we can choose to either put up walls or lean into the problem and fix it.

I also think there's this like cat and mouse game that starts happening, well, I'm not happy. Well, I'm not happy. Well, I'm not happy. And then nobody's happy because you lose the element of humility that is necessary to approach the process of getting to fully know someone. it's super interesting how we how we see these words differently because you're side eyeing me right now and I actually think

I think we're pretty much on the same page I just think I think there is a beauty in getting to know someone through the roller coaster and you're saying the roller coaster doesn't matter because it's something way deeper and bigger

So the variables of the day in and day out don't affect that. And I think the variables of the day in and day out compound to give you the result. And if you're not identifying the little variables every day, you're going to wind up five years from now unhappy. I think if you're only concerned on the other side of the spectrum with the little variables on the day to day, you will also in five years end up. unhappy because you're chasing this ethereal thing of happiness. So I'm saying, what's the right thing to chase that ultimately does have a side effect of that? Anyway, there's also this refinement of character, sorry, refinement of lifestyle. And so before marriage, you only take yourself into account. In marriage, there's always another person to sacrifice for and taking a consideration. You don't

get to live the same lifestyle once you have a family, but that doesn't mean that your freedom is gone. I think it just changes your definition of freedom. We were talking about this the other night, where it's like, again, like, if there are secondary qualities, I think something like freedom or happiness, that come as a result of pursuing primary qualities. Marriage comes with compromising on ideas. Usually when you have a team addressing a problem,

having two perspectives on something, helps take out solutions that might be awful and detrimental to progress or health. And so you have this more well-rounded perspective, which is amazing. We talk about how, in the story of Adam and Eve, Eve was gifted to Adam as like a help meet is what the word is,

which one interpretation of that is beneficial adversary. So it's like, okay, hey, we see this differently, but it's to our benefit to compromise on this idea. And you get to learn how to resolve conflicts. As you can see, we're doing good here. We're doing great. Our conflict resolution. But just because something is hard does not mean that it's failing. Just because there is conflict doesn't mean that it's, you need to run from it.

and if I feel like learning to identify your unhealthy communication patterns like you've helped me do same and become more self-aware can actually impact other areas of your life also emotional support so in those times when your emotions are fluctuating having a committed partner in marriage means that you have a steady source of support. Very important. Very important. Marriage helps build a legacy and something bigger than yourself,

pursuing a shared mission and vision that extends beyond yourself. And ultimately, I think marriage is a love unlike any other relationship. So we talk about this a lot, but the contractual side of marriage is really compelling in the sense that there's the covenant side actually.

We don't do covenants anymore, right? It's like such an antiquated idea. There's a concept in marriage that it is a covenant, and it's like there's a different depth when you're talking covenant than just like a promise or even a vow. It's like, wow, this is the holiest of relationships. And I think that sometimes short-term discomfort

in that process, helps lead to a long-term payoff, and it's a more sacrificial type of love. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your happiness, which is why I think is important to say, marriage is not about your happiness. And we both agree with that. Okay.

Are we in a better place now? We haven't been in a bad place. I mean, do we see this with more light? I just don't think. I think we're saying the same thing. the end result. We agree with the end result. It's not about momentary happiness. But actionable items require, when you were in football and you guys, like if your team wasn't winning, what would you do? You would dissect everything about what had happened, every play,

every move, every decision. Not all the time. Sometimes we'd be like, hey, that one didn't go our way. We're going to keep on going and we know that if we keep showing up, it's going to be okay. Like that one was a fluke. So you're not trying to work as a team a little bit? So we would do half time restrategizing. And then we would plan ahead for the next team after that game. Right. So it's like based off what we learned.

But we're not doing. It's not beholden or like. No, I know. But there's just a little bigger time. I think you're trying to just make your point because like in order to learn football, you have to learn plays. One of my big goals for 2026 has been just creating a calmer, more intentional rhythm at home. And honestly, the kitchen has been a big part of that reset. Switching to Caraway cookware has made such a difference in how I feel about cooking every single day.

You do love that kitchen. I do. And it sounds simple, but when your kitchen tools actually work with you instead of against you, everything feels easier. The non-toxic ceramic coating was a big one for us. Knowing it's third-party tested and made without forever chemicals makes cooking at home feel like it actually. aligns with the way we want to live. And beyond that, it's just genuinely easy to use.

The service is naturally slick, so you need way less butter or oil, and food actually slides right out of the pan. I'm spending way less time scrubbing at the sink, which I am not mad about. Sean makes over medium eggs every day, and the eggs literally slip out of the pan. And another thing I didn't expect to love as much as I do was the organization. When you buy one of their sets, everything comes with built-in organizers, so your cabinets actually stay clean and functional. It feels like a real declutter moment.

We have also been slowly adding in pieces. The butcher block is beautiful and plastic-free. The glass lids make cooking easier. And the new bar set is actually so beautiful and sleek. It just makes the whole kitchen feel elevated without being fussy. It kind of, those describe you, those words, I feel like. Anyway, and clearly we are not the only ones who enjoy Carraway. Over 100,000 people have given Carraway five-star ratings.

They are well-loved for a reason. Caraway's cookware set is a favorite for a reason. It can save you up to $190 versus buying the items individually. Plus, if you visit carawayhome.com forward slash EastFam, you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for you, our listeners, so visit carawayhome.com slash EastFam or use code EastFam at checkout. Carraway, non-toxic kitchenware made modern. You have to learn positions. You have to learn to like, the quarterback has to.

to read his players. And there's so much detail that goes into the end result. So I think you are focusing way too much on the end result and not the actionable daily items that get you there. And I think with all of this,

all of this is like actionable daily things where you have to say... Happiness is not an actionable daily thing. So one of my notes here is love is a choice, not just a feeling. Love is not about me. It's about the marriage, right? And it's about the commitment.

That is a, like, separate thing. Happiness is not an actionable daily thing. I know. Happiness comes as a result of me making the choice of loving you and pressing in and being present. You know what I'm saying? That's, I don't know, there's such a subtle difference here in understanding this. And I have grown to empathize. more with your, hey, part of being fully known is knowing where the other person's at.

Yes. But also, as I've grown to know myself, I'm like, yeah, I got. How can you and I become closer within our marriage if we don't understand how each other thinks more and reacts more? And like, how can we be fully known without sharing that? I don't think it's all about the animal instinct. It's like we're freaking, I think feelings are so instinctual and so, so lizard brainy, you know, as they say, where you're like, okay, food, happy, sweet sugar, happy, feel good, you know? There is another, there's another level of awareness of like, hey, that's sugar, keep tapping into that.

no happy no more. But like if you, if I keep doing something as a spouse, that makes you not happy, that's important to know. Actually, because that, that's valid.

But, and I think, I think the thing that I'm having a hard time with is, invalidating emotions, invalidating feelings, does not end in fulfillment and joy. And to be fully known and to be fully loved. That's disrespect.

And that's saying it doesn't matter to me what you feel. Because if we just push through this, at the end of the day, I'm going to know you better and love you better. And there's no way to get there without understanding someone. I think I just had the realization, which is a beautiful thing about you that is different than a lot of people, probably myself included. My last note here was marriage teaches you more about being selfless.

than you ever wanted to know. And I think as we've been talking through this, I've been using the tense of marriage is not about my happiness, the one speaking. You've been addressing all of this as like, actually, from Sean's perspective, marriage is about Andrew's happiness. And from my perspective, marriage is about Sean's happiness. And that's where I think from day one, date five,

It was like, holy crap, okay, you just aren't going to care about anything I feel. Because like, it should be my job as a spouse to wake up and be like, I care so deeply about you that I want to know what makes you sad. So I can support you to find fulfillment. So I can love you more and to hear so blatantly over and over again, it's not my job to wake up and feel that for you. Like, nah. This episode of A couple things is brought to you.

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Again, that's $30 off your first box and free croissant for life when you visit wildgrain.com slash e-fam or you can use promo code e-fam at checkout. I'm sorry. It is fun. That's what is hard. And that's where I'm like, I don't think that's a supportive. union to actionably if you're

dissecting it. Here's my hesitation is when people say marriage is about my happiness and my personal fulfillment. I think that's the slightly perverted skew

of this. I think it's really beautiful that you view marriage as about my happiness. Does that make sense? And I think it's marriages is really wonderfully unlocked. Not the purpose, and this is not the main goal, but when both parties do aspire to serve the other person

and to be selfless towards the other person, I would still say not to serve their happiness. But do you see the difference there? It would be toxic to say, you're not making me happy. For sure. Your difference is you're saying, I'm not making Andrew happy. Yeah.

So that's something I need to work on. But I also think it can be over-indexed anyway. This is interesting. Please let us know. Someone helps sort us all this out, please. I would love to know your thoughts on, this is how all of our debates go. I don't know if we just talked in circles or not,

but I feel like I had a couple new insights. there, so thank you. Wow, what a truth that was. All right, you're ready for the next episode? Yes. Do check out that interview we did with the Quardles. It was really delightful. Enjoyed getting to know that couple that came here,

and we had an hour and a half long conversation. Yes. If you made it this far, please subscribe to the show. Leave the comment. Letting us know your thoughts. You should bring in a marriage, like a counselor, to do this whole thing again.

Yeah, or just someone to like interpret what we're saying. Exactly. Exactly. But anyway, that's all we have. I'm Andrew. I'm Sean. We'll see you next time.