Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 305 | Couples Therapy On Camera (With Dr. John Delony)

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

In our most recent series, we opened up about some of the hardest topics we've discussed: “I’m not here to make you happy.” “I will let you down.” “You don’t need me.” We couldn’t see eye to eye on what they really meant.. So for this episode, we did something different. We brought in Dr. John Delony and let him break it all down (Oh boy hahaha). What started as a conversation quickly turned into real, on-the-spot couples counseling… with all of you watching. 😂 Buy 4 cartons and get the 5th free when you go to https://davidprotein.com/EASTFAM. Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp.com/EASTFAM Go to https://kachava.com and use code EASTFAM for 15% off! Love you guys! Shawn & Andrew Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. I am so excited for our podcast today. This is episode four of the series. It's been a little bit of a break, but I promise you, you don't forget it. Episode four of the series of the three things my husband says that really just I don't agree with. Honestly, thank you all.

Through that series, I learned so much. and my perspective was changed. And I'm grateful for that. We get spoiled. We get spoiled. And a lot of people thought, man, this guy's a knucklehead. And like, yeah, that's true.

You know what I was thinking? People have been so kind to me for how much of a knucklehead I am and how gentle they have been to me. You know who's been the kindest? You. You put up with most of my stuff. You put up with my stuff.

I have a lot of stuff. But today we sit down with Dr. John Deloney, who is our favorite relationship coach. So fun. He's funny. It's not an interview by any means. It's literally episode four, but we just brought in a moderator. Yeah, we brought on a moderator. It very much turned into a counting session. And we learned a lot. We hope you do as well. If you want to find out more about Dr. John Deloney, he has his own show. I love his stuff. And I think you'll love it too.

So we'll link that down below. But without further ado, Dr. John Deloney. Okay, you asked us in the hallway, you're like, what are we doing today? Yeah, what are we doing? This is exciting. So here's the back story. A few episodes ago, there were three back-to-back podcasts where I came in and I sat down, Andrew's like, you know what we're going to talk about today? And he would say a line.

And there are three lines that Andrew says in our relationship that drive me of the wall. Each podcast was about each one of those lines, which are. Did you know this? Is that why you did it? Yeah, it was like, hey, what am I missing here? Because I keep saying this and it keeps not landing well. And so our goal with having you here today is to kind of sort us all out. Yeah.

Okay, so the line is not like, the line is like you're trying to put the moves on? No, ready? No, I got no game in that. That's one of my favorite questions on the planet to ask, especially Big Tough Bros. Like, how do you initiate? And it's always like, yeah, no one messed with me. And then they're like, hey, have some sexy time. It's my favorite because they're the worst at it.

The worst. Okay, so go ahead. This is not that. I was hoping that was going to be. Pretty much. Yeah, how did you pick me up? What? How did you pick me at?

Well, first of all, that's not the same thing as what he's talking about. It is, it is. My current game. Just one eyebrow? I'm trying to be less, I'm trying to be less subtle with it because by request, you're trying to be a good husband. So I'm just like, yo, you're trying to throw down right now? Yes, okay. So that's how.

Throw down. Yeah. Excellent. But we do say naked time. Okay. All right. Just because you got to throw down. I like that.

Same thing you would do if somebody cut you off in a parking lot, you would throw down. Similar vibes. I like it. Very good. Just to set the scene. Good, good, good. So the three lines are. Okay.

No, and these are, I want them to be like approaches to our relationship is how I mean them. And I think it's like, I view it as my responsibility to make Sean as. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't preface these. You got to just show them what they are to say, because he has been using these three lines since we started dating. They are. Oh, and you're still trying to run them back? Oh, no, you still strongly believes in them.

And I am phrasing. these how I mean them you don't need me uh-huh I'm not here to make you happy okay and I will let you down I will let you down okay so give me a context for when you just throw these out so like hey can you grab the eggs I'm gonna make you something you're like I'm gonna let you okay no so I'm not here to make you happy so the context is and I do I with all my will I want to preface these but I won't okay um the context is we're like uh we just had our second baby right and she i have to go away for some work trip for two nights and there's uh some nerves and all the emotions and i'm like hey you don't you don't need you don't need me you got this

you know you can you can handle it there these these three statements okay so why we brought you in each podcast caused a lot of emotion okay from both sides i got pissed with every single one. Because I was like, you're bringing up three, three statements back to back, one, that we can't, we can't seem to agree on. Two, bring up a lot of emotion. Because for him, they're foundational beliefs to how he feels our relationship should like operate.

And I don't agree with any of them. But it brought up so much tension. Every single comment was like, you should bring in someone to, like, go in. No, not every single comment. Not every single comment. It was very like heavily waited towards agreeing with me. Okay. Anyways, so much of that even a counseling company reached out and they're like, oh, I think,

I think you should come back in. How about three months for free? Here's our QR code. That's right. Okay. So there are one more time. We'll start with the first one. Start with the first one.

So the first one that we ever did was it's not my job to make you happy. Or like, I'm not. I'm not here to make you happy. I'm not here to make you happy. And this is something I told her on like our third date. We're playing tennis. Like I'm at the hometown for the first time. And I think it came around because we were being all lovey-dovey and I was like, you make me so happy.

And he's like, whoa. Hold the phone. Pause. And this is a reminder you'll say a lot. He's like, I am not here to make you happy. That's not my. That's a side effect. It's not the main goal.

That's how I mean it. Okay. What are you trying to say when you say that? like I happiness is what like it's writing the every day let me just let me just I think I use this word cautiously hand her to whatever if you're not happy now let me fix it right at all cost and it's like no there's like there's bigger goals that we have as a couple that I have I view it as my role as her husband to like strengthen her support her help her she's a highly ambitious capable woman how can I help her do that

this. You're not here to help her. I am no she doesn't need me she does not need me. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So but but the happiness is like this this whimsical thing and I'm like joy is more important. I'm I think when we look back on this 20 years from now we will be joyful but it's not the it's not the it's not my main goal to make you happy that's not the but what would it be a what what is going back to that moment what is it about her making a bid a vulnerability to say like here I am this world-renowned person having a moment with you, you make me happy. What about that moment threatened you to the point that you had to redefine a word? Hold on. We have to get our syntax right. Instead of just accepting that and feeling the vulnerability in that moment. Well, syntax matters.

You know what I'm saying? It does. But in that, like on the, like the kind of tire I have on my car matters. does it matter when it's on the side of the road and it's flat and you're like, I got one. Right. Right. So it does matter. But in that moment, what was it about what she said that you felt I have to put my foot down here? I, well, I would like to think it's not aggressive in a way I'm putting my foot down. I view it as a, I want to make sure that we're clear with our relationship.

Like, we are setting the table and laying the foundation well that, like, this isn't a, you know, I had parents growing up there, were married for 40 years. And it's like, the arguments are important. And so like, it's not, let's, I view it as important because like if we're only doing the happiness thing, then, oh, then let me avoid this conflict. Or like, I'm gonna let you get away with this

or you'll let me get away with that. And it's like, no, we are sanctification, dude. Yeah. That's why, that's why. Sanctification. It matters. Okay, what's the next one? Okay, so I wanna, we're gonna circle back to these because I have questions. We will. We will. Okay. Second one is you don't need me.

Okay. This gets brought up often in frustration-fueled arguments. Okay. About logistics in life, how do we get work done, how are we going to manage doing it all? Usually it comes in some sort of context of like codependence. Does that make sense? Like when codependence starts That he feels like you're being codependent? Yes. Okay. And it's always a pause.

I need to remind you. You don't need me. I don't need you. Yeah. We can totally operate without each other. And yeah, that's, I don't want to preface either. I would say dependence more than codependence

is when I'm like, all right, let's sort this out. And like, hey, I believe in you. And I'm not here to leave you hanging with responsibilities. I will contribute as much as I can. Yeah. At some point, though, which goes.

The fueled argument that usually comes when the statement comes up is because he will pause to a point where he says, kind of like the podcast, he's like, let me just run through all of your accolades and how amazing you are and how capable you are and how wonderful you are and how I don't even have to be here. like run your life and you could do all this and you could do so you need to remember you don't need me and i'm always like it actually feels like a slap in the face because like one i know that i know i don't need you i know i don't need anyone but like i chose to need you on like our wedding day and so every day i'm choosing to like humble myself and say i actually don't have to do it all by myself and like I need you in life as a partner but again it's a it's just it's a point where you're like you need to make sure I know you know that we don't need each other can I add some of course

one hold on I wish y'all could feel this room it's so great it's so good it's awesome I just I'm remembering it's awesome I can feel you remembering it it's awesome one I'm not like no no we got we got it Oh, so we just bombarded you with this. You're like, what are we doing? I'm like, well, you're going to listen to arguments and like, I want you to wait. Throwing sticks to each other in the front yard. Yeah, pretty much. Why I think it's important that you're here and thank you for being here is like,

it did bring an immense amount of confusion to me. And some of the comments that we got was like, wow, this is actually really helpful because, like, they're not, some people really saw my side. Yeah. And then those type of people did not really see the other side and they were in both ways. And you're like, oh, maybe this isn't the only couple that this happens to. No, 100%. Yeah.

But I'm not like out here flexing your accolades. I talk more about your attributes of like and who you are, right? The reason in that specific podcast when we did this, I talked about Sean's background and all her resume. I thought was interesting just because she is, you know, there's this whole like movement of everyone go build your thing and like capitalism and build your business

and start your brand and yada, yada. She's done it all, dude. And yet, clearly on that level of things, she does not need me. And I think it's just interesting that you still have this element of humility where like you engage in this, I think it's healthy to call it codependent relationship with me at a cost of all that resume type of stuff. So that's why I was talking about that.

But I also think like there is a feeling of overwhelm sometimes that we both can get. And it's like, in my mind, maybe this is the unhealthy part of me. I'm not sure the athlete part of me. It's like, hey, I want to be able to steal myself and say, okay, like, I can, I got this. There's no need for overwhelm. There's no need for this exaggerated emotion. And in some feeble attempt, that's my way to try to inspire that. And her, like, hey, it's okay.

you, I'm gonna be gone for two days. You don't, like you don't need me, you got this. You know what I'm saying? So instead of going to the next one, can we stay on this one? Please. Is that okay? So here's two things I heard

and tell me if I'm right or wrong, okay? And one of my favorite things is being wrong. Okay. Then we have more information. That's awesome, okay? So it's been my experience in my own house and with literally every couple I've ever sat with.

Few things are more frustrating than when somebody else tells you what you're feeling and what you're thinking and what you want and or need. 100% correct. And so I wonder if it's less about what I said. It's it's you don't need this as though like you, I would say a better, and we could talk for six months on this. but I wonder if a better approach would be I'm getting on this plane I'm leaving

That's honestly And then she gets to say You just hold me for a minute before we leave And then you don't get into the needs and wants and yada But the you don't or you need to For me sets me off Like who do you think you are right Versus don't don't get inside my head

the true act of sacrifice here or service in this moment for a married couple is, will you invite me in and let me know how I can love you right now? God, freaking idiot. I know, right? Is that makes sense to you? Why can you say that? No. Doesn't make sense.

Yeah, 100%. Because when we were actually debating this statement out, that came up exactly what you said. Because I had said multiple times, I said, you don't need to remind me of what I've done in life. Like I'm confident, I'm strong, I'm stubborn. And like, I know you can't tell me I don't need you. Yeah. Because that's not fair. And I also was like, how dare you?

Yeah. Because you're telling me what I do and do not need. And it's like, I choose to need you. And I don't ever want to change that. Because if I change that, then I change my philosophy of like what my foundation and our relationship is. So can I challenge you now? Yeah. again tell me if I'm wrong every single athlete every single special forces per like that I've sat with behind behind behind closed doors there's this gnawing clawing sense that this isn't what was important this is awesome and it was cool and it was otherworldly and and and and but at some level I gave up my 20s I gave up my teens I gave up my knees my hips my whatever you

You gave up. Are you kidding me? You're telling me that that guy is what really matters. And there's a, and so it's like a, there's, the, the rebut is, you're dang right, I don't need you, right? Which is just fighting fire with fire. Allow yourself to get beneath that and say, you know, like I do. There's got to be a scary, terrifying moment for somebody who has made their life when someone says you can. to be like, yeah, I can. And you actually have to be able to go, but I can't tell them this when I need you.

Yes. Because in my mind, unwinding everything is like, before I met Andrew, before I met you, was I was 100% independent. I had to be. I literally had to be to survive. Like that was, I was 12 years old when I went professional

and started traveling the world by myself and I had to like offend for myself and be solo forever. And I had to do. do it by myself on my own with no one else. And you get all the limelight and you get the Olympic gold medal and whatever. And there's depression for every gold medalist on the back end, right? For sure.

But like you said, when I learned that that didn't matter and then I found this guy and I was like, oh, frick, yeah, that actually matters. Then being told that doesn't matter and hearing, in my mind, unlike that particular podcast, all my accolades. I'm like, F you, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually like the complete opposite. So being reminded of that and being like, I need to pause to make sure you know that you actually don't need me, but let me like pinpoint the business stuff.

I'm like, no. So what makes you uncomfortable about when your emotions get big? Well, one, thank you for however you just navigated that. because it does now makes me super sad. Can you move in with us? Dinner tables. We're just talking about the buying both of your houses. You're offering you to other people.

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Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash e-spam. That's better-h-elp.com slash e-fam. It makes me super sad to think. that Sean is like, she's almost reaching out for my help. And I guess- Not for your help. Sorry, sorry. That's a dude way of putting that.

Because we're building an engine together. She's reaching out. No, no. She's reaching out for one thing. Yeah. You. Yeah. And almost every man, myself included,

has a really hard time metabolizing that. You don't want me for my money, for my looks, for all that stuff's cool, and my accolades and my work, heart. I don't swear on this like oh crap you want me and that is so otherworldly for almost every man I know especially high performing men that it shatters into a whole bunch of different proxy wars right

yeah it just makes me sad that I'm like I'm I'm she's reaching out for me and I'm like telling her in some weird way like no yeah yeah yeah so that makes me really sad and I did not have that realization admittedly till right now And look, I'm freaking here to learn, and I'm glad to do it in front of everybody, because hopefully we all can. I'm here to learn as well. My biggest revelation. I'm very stubborn, and I argue all these things.

And instead of just saying that, like, I need you, I'm like, no. I get pissed. Keep going, because I want to add something to the need. Okay, remind me of need, okay? Need. That word. The thing that I learned the first time we had this conversation was, oh, her saying that it really hurts her should be enough. End of question.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, I should stop. And that was like not a, I just didn't really get that. Are we getting in the feelings and facts argument then? Yeah, which I've conceded a lot. I'll come a long way. But then it's so funny because I mean it, and maybe this is just how weak I am.

The way I, like if I'm having a hard day and it's 5 a.m. or whatever and I got to go do whatever. The way I get rallied up is like I'll turn on some cheesy motivational YouTube video. And it'll be a guy like yelling at me. Yeah, yeah. Like, you could do this. It's whatever. Keep going.

You got to, David Goggins, your heart. You got to, and I'm trying to like project that on her kind of. Just because it does work for me where it's like, you freaking, you got it. Keep going. You keep going. Keep running. And I'm like, all right. Yeah, maybe that's not how everybody.

So here's the, here's the magic. Can I tell you the magic? Please. Seen, known, self. celebrated. And those three things in that order give you permission to challenge. Okay. And so what I mean by scene, which sounds cheesy, most of us go through life with a pair of glasses on and all we see is that. This hypes me up. You saw that awesome video of that coach the other day and that that young player was like, I like to be coached hard. Like leave my coach alone. Women's basketball? Yes. Incredible.

I was sobbing watching when somebody was speaking the words as she was mouthing them. I was like, that's that's it that's how I like it yeah seeing is I'm gonna take these glasses off and see there's another human here and then the knowing is I know how right I know how to love her in this moment and that will change for the rest of your marriage which makes you'll be married to 14 different versions of her by the time this thing wraps which is awesome you get a new girlfriend all the time it's rad um it's but it's like I it's that hyped me up this scares her this makes me feel like yeah like some of those videos make me roll my eyes out of the back of my head yeah but i sobbed my eyes out this morning when that coach was like i believe in you and i was like god if somebody would

say that to me right yeah and so it's knowing how can i love you in this moment that's different than how i like to be loved and that ends up in the bedroom a lot like i'm trying to give you what i like and they're like i don't like that and it causes all attention it happens everywhere yeah um But it's that scary realization that it's humbling to know, I don't even know in this moment the thing to do to take care of the person that I stood in front of God and our friends and said, till death it was part, I don't know how to love you right now.

And I have to ask. That's a humbling, scary thing. And it's one that I would be like, I should know that, right? That's my wife. And to say, we don't. And you're the best expert on you. So how can I love you right now? Does that make sense?

Yeah. It's just so funny. Because I feel like, I feel like, I've done that in so many ways in our marriage. I guess I just didn't realize that there are always going to be new stones to unturn with that. Of like, oh, I got to remove myself from this. That's pretty crazy.

My favorite thing in our marriage now is, in my personal marriage, we just take it apart every year. And we literally, like, get together. You all have a retreat every year, too. But we get together. And it's what are two or three things you were super into the last few years that you're just not into anymore? And what are two or three things you want to try? We've never tried. What are a few things that are starting to really know you about,

like annoy you about me? And we just kind of put on a table because I'm getting to know her. I tell you all the syllabus thing last time I was here. Yeah. I asked my wife for a silly. Like, what do you even listen to? I don't even know what you're reading. And my wife, she stumbled into a playlist.

I had the other day and she's like, when you start listening to this? And I was like, ah, she got to, right? But it's just a constant in getting to re-know, which I can get that that wears people out. I have turned. I think it's the fun. thing now. It's super fun. It's like crazy fun. The amount of like dude, there's no into the depth. It's it.

But you have to, I guess I'm just live realizing you have to always remember that there's going to be places where I haven't known her or I don't know her. You did know it but it's different. Yeah. Yeah. She's had new experience. She's never been a mom of four

kids at this age or three kids at this age. And she's never had a husband who accomplished this month and it's just, it's just I'm getting to know you all of the time. But for me, I don't want to put this on you, for me, the thing that gets in the way of that is shame. I shouldn't know. We're going to lose your husband doesn't know that. What kind of, like if I really was plugged in, I would have already known that.

Or I shouldn't have to ask, how can I love you? Like, that's what a dude should know. And it ends up being me upset with me. And my wife bears the brunt of that. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's that. Yeah.

Okay, question. Adding to all of this, you're basically saying, you're speaking different languages. You're saying, learning how to love your partner in the way they like, not how you like. So you have to learn how to speak a language that you don't receive. This is a hot take. Yeah. It's my responsibility to speak in a language my wife can hear. And that's a different language than my friends can hear. It's a different language than my comedian buddies can hear. It's a different language. than me and my parents have. It's being multilingual. And so, yeah, but it's my job to learn that language. So now going to facts and feelings, which is not the third statement, but a different thing.

I process experiences everyday life by feelings. He processes them by facts. Yes. For him, feelings are temporary. They don't matter. Because if we look at the overarching average curve of life, we're probably going to end up happy, average out to be higher than, you know, above rather than below.

Facts matter. Did this happen? And is that correct? Is that not correct? And so for me, I'm like, when you're arguing, how do you argue in a way that you don't maybe necessarily believe it? So like an example would be we get an argument. She's like, you made me feel like this.

and I'm like, when you said this, and I said, well, I didn't say that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And then so that's when the fact thing, well, I'm like, no, this is, that's not what the transcript says. Yeah.

Please. Solve. So, here's the, the challenge is we have one whole half of our culture, literally, it's bifurcated. Feelings everything. The world should move based on how I feel about a thing right now.

And that's madness, right? Yeah. I get it, but it's madness. The other is, blank your feelings, screw your feelings. The only thing that matters is the facts, right? Yes. The problem with that is...

And they got married. They always do. They always do. That's what makes life awesome, right? Somebody's going to make... It was stunning to me when I was like, we have to pay the light bill every month. Like, we paid it like twice, like last year.

And so I don't feel like paying that bill. Well, it's like, cool. But so, yeah, they marry each other and that's good. The challenge is, I'll say it this way. A gallon of milk is awesome, right? It's a good measurement. But I'm not going to measure from here to the other side of that room in gallons because it's the wrong measurement for that.

And so when your wife is hurting saying, I feel this thing just happened to me and you say, that thing didn't happen, then you're trying to measure from here to there in gallons. You might be factually correct, but that's not the, that's not the thing that's happening here. But, okay, this is, I get through, I want to, I want to, and I've got a solution for you.

I can solve, but go ahead. I'm just like, the feeling is rooted in your perception of what happened. I'm trying to like, I'll, like, help figure out what actually happens so we can sort the feeling out, you know what I'm saying? Is it that, or are you uncomfortable with the fact that she feels not good? Oh, I, I don't want her to be sad, you know what I'm saying? I'm not like, yeah, I'm not here for that at all. Our spiral that we get in, it's literally just a perpetuating cycle.

But it's like... I will end it today. I'm so happy. I'm so excited. But he'll say something and it's... And this is probably going to cause another argument. It's the way in which he says it. That's it.

Dude, don't get me started on tone. I know, but that's a thing. Because your tone is a fact. That will hurt my feelings. I'll say it hurts my feelings. He said, but I didn't say it like that. And that's not what I meant. And I'm like, but it is.

And that's how I feel. And he's like, but it's not. So then he'll say it again. And I'm like, we're right back there. This is too much of a lead up to what the solution is. But let me just also tell you. She'll come in sometimes. She'll be like, hey, I feel like something's wrong with you.

And it's in words like that. And I'm like, no, there's nothing wrong with me. And then she's like, are you sure there's nothing wrong with you? I'm like, now they're freaking it. Now there's something wrong with me. okay you feel like anyway so then it's like well you're just you think there's something wrong based on how you feel but like what are we doing well that I can tell literally by your body language that I'm like okay but but similar to him saying you don't need me I know could it be

that's really fair I have big feelings about you would you invite me in and that's a vulnerable because he might say now and that sucks I think honestly that's how I interpret it is in my mind I say out loud what I see and when he says nothing's wrong it almost feels like her rejection to a certain point it is that's what I'm like don't ask I'm like I'm like don't ask

But then I'm like Aren't That's now I'm getting too Into it but like I'm your person Shouldn't you tell me But I can't unless it's not been processed yet 100% dude Dude you're processing time

I'm like I'm like MLB picture But five months Here's Here's another one off when you're not in the argument when I feel like you've got big feelings what are two or three things I can do and it might be just come put your hand on the back of my neck just come hold my hand just fill in the blink as a I have to do something because I love you and care about you and I see you're not okay

and you have told me this isn't the path to ask me what's what's wrong I know something's wrong with you right which is very similar to I know you You don't like that's fair. I've never thought it that way. That's too shit. What are two or three ways I can approach you? Wow. Okay.

We've got to solve this. Yeah, yeah. You ready? Okay. It's the easiest thing in the world. You ready? Actually, it's a nightmare, but it's awesome. It's so simple.

So give me a scenario. You walk in and say what? Hey. How about today? When you walk in with everybody and you're like, What's up, everybody? I said, how's everybody doing? Nobody answered.

I said, okay, we're doing good, huh? And Sean's like, well, maybe it's your intensity. Everyone's like a little freaking, like worn out by it. I feel like it's too much or whatever. Anyway, but I don't know. But in that moment, you say, you're too much. Yeah. And you're like, I'm not too much.

I just said how everybody's told. Yeah. Right? And you're like, oh, I'm not allowed to say hello in my own house. And you're like, right? So here's the, you're ready for the path? Yes. It is this.

Andrew, here's what just happened. And this is the key. Here's the story I made up about what just happened. Here's how that story makes me feel. Here's what I want to be different next time. That's it. And it ends it. And it takes two minutes.

So you walk in after a long sauna time and there's all 19 of your kids are running. around everywhere and just got a football helmet on and it's on fire or whatever and he's like man you need to pick up this kitchen in that moment it's when you just came in and have been out doing your own thing and i'm taking care of all of this the story i made up is you don't care to be plugged into this family you'd rather get your workout done before any of this stuff you think i can just going to handle all of this that makes me feel really small i really need your help in the mornings and then he gets to say, I'm not doing that. And then now you all have a true issue.

Or you can be like, well, I've got my workout program. And now we start the whole thing over. When you put your workout program ahead of me and the kids and getting everybody off to school, it makes me feel, the story I make up is, it's more important for you to have abs than to be connected with your family. And boom, boom, boom. Most of the argument happens with the story

we make up about what just happened. I frankly struggle with going through that process. The self-awareness, dude, is super. hard to be like, oh, why did that, why did that make me so mad? Or why did that make me so sad? Here's a simple thing. When she's feeling big, learning is off. Like, like neurologically, there's no learning. So if you have a fact to discuss or to debate, it can't happen at moment anyway. The only thing that can happen is we can bring the temperature of the room down and bring your frontal loat back online. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so even if you have a fact,

doesn't matter. She's mad. So there's only fighting or fleeing or nuzzling up. That's what we can do here. And so I'm going to step into that. So I have so many questions. So you take an argument. Say it's heated. Both parties are heated. How do you take two heated parties who are arguing about facts and feelings and since no learning's happening were too fired up, right? Emotions too high. How do you, how do you kill that? for a time being until you're back at rational level. Every single couple on the planet has, that's just repair. Every couple has different things.

Sometimes it's sticking your tongue out of each other. Sometimes it's just, like whatever, or making a joke, or I need 10 minutes or any, I'm going to go for a walk or whatever. Every couple is different, serious, funny, whatever, but it's a, this, I'm out of this. Like, we're not going to solve a thing here.

And then we'll circle back away. actually need to solve a thing. You said this thing. I didn't say that. Or how do you want me to respond when you accuse me of saying something that I know I didn't say? Okay, this is vulnerable. I'm just laying it all out there.

You do a good job of that. Andrew will be like, we need 10 minutes. Yeah. Why does that fuel me more? Where I'm like, where I'm like, don't leave it. Don't walk away. To a certain extent, it feels like rejection.

why is that and how can I fix that or is that just a I don't think you're broken so I don't think you have to fix it I think uh your feelings and emotions are a big part of you and so if he says I can't I don't want to deal with your emotions that's him saying I don't deal with you no no I don't think I say it like no you don't you know I'm saying that's how she hears that's how she feels it shouldn't even hear it that way that's how it registers in

your business and so when y'all aren't in that moment when y'all are chill like now it's asking or it's saying and this is a thing when I come at you and I'm mad about something and you think I've said something wrong will you just hug me will you just say that do that and then you get to decide I'm gonna be a

butthammer or yes I will hug you right I'll be right and or I will all be married I get to pick one of those two things how do you feel about that I like it I'm stubborn why why Tell me who doesn't hear your feelings. I asked that in a weird way. No.

Over the course of your life. It didn't matter. There you go. They weren't allowed. There you go. Not from my parents. From anybody else. I think from a very, very young age, feelings don't matter in gymnastics.

In my profession. They do not matter. But it was more in your profession. It was your whole life. Yeah. And that was your identity. So, like, separating that from my parents, My parents were phenomenal with it.

They needed to know. But I was so overly trained in my profession that it masked what I did at home to where even at home I wouldn't share. But in the gym setting, from probably eight until 19, you don't show emotion. It doesn't matter.

If you're sad, weak, whatever, angry, you bottle it up, you throw it out the door. And so what you sounds like what you're asking. asking him is, do you love all of me? All right, I feel like protein has become one of those things I'm always thinking about lately, like making sure I'm actually getting enough of it during the day. Same, especially with how busy life gets. There are so many days where we're running around and having something quick.

It actually keeps you full makes such a difference. That's why we've been keeping David protein bars around the house lately. I've been grabbing one when I need something fast between meetings or after workouts. And honestly, they've been so solid. Yes. And what's cool is they actually have two different types. of bars now, which I didn't realize at first. Right. Their gold bars are kind of their hero line.

Those have 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar, which is honestly wild for how good they taste. And those have more of that like doughy texture, like with the little chunks and crisps in them. They're so good. The chocolate chip cookie dough is probably my favorite. Same. And then they also have the bronze bars, which are newer. Those have 20 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar. And they're more of that marshmallow-style texture with that. the chocolate coating, super good.

Those feel a little more like a treat, honestly. The s'mores one is so good. For me, these have been perfect for those moments when I need something quick, but still want to stay on track with my protein goals. Like if I'm running out the door or I need something between lunch and dinner, it's just easy to grab. And I know that I'm getting a bunch of extra protein without a bunch of extra sugar. And I like that they actually keep you full.

There are so many bars out there that taste okay, but don't really satisfy you. They have been so great to keep in our pantry in our car or even in our bag when we're out with the kids. Plus, most protein bars are packed with extra calories and sugar, but David really focused on delivering high protein while keeping calories low, which makes it easy to stay consistent. Don't just take our word for it. Try it for yourself. David is offering our listeners a special deal by four cartons and get the fifth free when you go to Davidprotein.com forward slash EastFam. That's Davidprotein.com slash EastFam.

And if you prefer to shop in person, David is available at leading retailers nationwide, including Target, Walmart, Kroger, Wegman, and the vitamin shop. Just check out their store locator to find a location near you. I have two sides of me. My natural side is like, I have emotion, I like to share it,

I like to be coddled by it, or I can go stone cold and shut it off and I can shut the world out. And I try really hard to balance that in our arguments where like my emotion will become so large until I go to preservation mode where I'm like,

I retreat back to my child's side from gymnastics. And I'm like, you know what? I'll shut it off. In counseling, we call it leakage. Those emotions will come out. And they usually come out in a real inopportune time. Or you can bring them out, even if they're big.

But they're going to come out. Yeah. There's a price to pay for. Yeah. For sure. I do love all of you, babe. I know you do. I know you.

It's not the. we're not in a marriage crisis where I think that's an issue. This is getting like very deep now. I am now seeing a new light though how sad it is that like I think I have this phrase that I think is helpful. Yeah. I'm not here to make you happy. And then the way that lands with someone who's not been emotionally fostered could like be really uniquely hurtful. And I'm sorry.

I appreciate that. I would like to state that I don't feel by in any measure account, like a victim to what I went through in childhood. Like, it was a sacrifice to my profession, but it also was a part of it. So I don't look back. No, it comes at a cause. Yeah.

It's like, I got to learn new skills now. I don't look at it in our marriage and be like, oh, gymnastics really, like, no. Like, it made me really good at what I did. But I will say it's not beneficial in marriage to shut off all. motion and go cold and think. But I do think every once in a while when you get in those arguments, which we've heard

before is like you resort back to childlike behavior in like irrational moments. Sometimes I resort back to if my feelings don't matter, it feels like I'm now back on a mat where it's like just keep pushing through. It doesn't even matter what you think or feel, you know? And that's where I get very like, do I punch you in the throat or do I like run away? Not actually. but kind of but kind of yeah wow so tell me how this tell me how this hits i have a hypothesis i'm working on okay maybe we may have talked about this last time about needs and wants

remind us remind us so i have a hypothesis that we throw around the word need a lot yes and it is not true and that throwing that word around i need sex i need you to do this i need this i need this i need this. What I'm doing is I'm saying, I have no capacity to self-soothe or, and I'm going to hand you the cinder block that is my well-being. And it's your job. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay, but pause. Thank you. But it's a, it's a, it's a mask for a scarier question. Not. Because if I, I tell the story, I was out in front of Texas Tech one time I was walking into to the building and two women were running and one just collapsed. And she was having, having a diabetic, I just lost a word of it.

But her friend looked at me and said, she needs a coat now, like right now. I didn't know them. I'll never see them again. I immediately sprinted into the building their cooking machine and got a Coke. She needed a Coke or she was going to die. Right?

She needed sugar right then. And- Save somebody's life, bro. I'm kind of a big deal. I like to dislike one of my low-key flexes. But, like, that was a need. Yeah. The scarier question in a marriage

is do you want me? So it's easy for me to be like, I need sex. Carry that for me. And then cool, I'm going to put you on my list of other needs. Kids need to be fed. The diapers need to be changed. The dog food needs to be filled. You'll go on that list.

A scarier question is, I want you, do you want me? And I think a lot of the need language and a lot of the fighting is, do you see me and do you know me and do you still want me? And that's a much scarier question to ask because I could say, I want that. this and then you could say, I don't want that. And now we have to deal with that, right? But if I just keep grenading need at you all the time. And so I would say, like, technically you're correct. Yeah. I don't, we don't quote unquote need each other. Y'all are both independent financially. Y'all are both handsome people. Like, y'all, true. You won't die. You need oxygen and food, right?

And, and water. The scary thing is like, no, I want you. And that's a way more voluble. vulnerable place to be, especially if you've grown up saying, I will never want anything. I will just do. Yeah. Was that ring true or no? No, 100%. And it is a massive pet peeve of mine when, like, stressful day and it sounds like, I need a glass of wine. I'm like, no, we're not freaking, we're not going down this route.

No. Honestly, if you say that, no wine tonight. It's like, because I just, that idea of sometimes, obviously wine's a tough one because there's like alcohol. I need whatever. I need to go listen to music. No, you don't.

You're fine. You're good. Just get it together. You're good. Okay, but what's the scary thing is I want to go to listen to some music. Yeah. And then it's, I think that's beautiful

and it allows room for there to be some dance of like, oh, okay, well, let's, I would also like to hear that music together with you. What music are you listening? I don't know. I would like to go do that by myself. I need to go do it by myself. I want to have a gossip by myself.

Can you hear that? Yeah, that's great, dude. Yes. That's awesome. This is really fascinating, dude. Well, so one thing, again, when we first talked about this, I was like trying to sort through. We haven't got to the third one yet. Oh, my gosh.

Sorry. But I'm like, sorry, let me just, because you talk about Mazel's high. your need, you're like, you're right, there's like safety and is anyone going to come be, like, are you prey to any predator or whatever? And it's like, okay, food and yeah. And then like, you know, we live in a great country. And we're, like, a lot of us are in the top, like, where's the meaning of life, you know? There's this epidemic of like, meaninglessness and loneliness and whatever. And it's like, okay, again, I think it's so fascinating that, like, that bottom part of that triangle,

you don't need it, but the top is like this meaningful thing that you have to choose to engage in. And it's like relationships and it's love and it's like the super intangible thing. And in that capacity, we do need each other. Yeah.

Of like, oh yeah, to have a meaningful life. So this sounds, I'm still working on this. This is probably the next project I work on after this. I, in fact, I would, have told you i think maslow was wrong until i recently heard that he actually in his former right at the

end he he said i missed it self-actualization isn't the top the top is relationship it's service i did it's trans that's where purpose is and that actually flips the whole thing and so i've got to have i go to my local church here like so i'm a person of faith that's woven into the fabric of Kind of Michael Easter talks about like we're designed to carry heavy stuff. That's how the human body's built. We're designed from the inside out to be of service to not to self-actualize. The only way to self-actualize is not self at all. It's to give yourself away.

Yeah, that's crazy, dude. And so in marriage, in my opinion, it should be a daily attempt to out-serve each other, only to find yourself out-served. And it's when you can't accept somebody else's service to you. you because it's a threat to, I don't need that. I can do so much. Instead of a, I'm going to give you the greatest gift, which is to say thank you. And because now I have the capacity to serve, oh yeah, we'll check this service out. And it's a race to the bottom. It's not a race to the top. And if you race to the bottom, the whole thing raises up in a pretty profound way.

I'm learning a lot. But it's scary, though, because they, your spouse may not. That's gets, And that's the scary part is I'm going to go all in 100% serve. And that's exhausting for the single mom or the mom who's listening to this and her stupid husband's off doing something dumb. And she's like, I can't serve anymore, right? I get that. But it's a how can I speak in a language I can hear? How can I not take this personally today? How can I, oh, we're not having it.

It's that service, right? How can I make a cup of coffee around I get up? I made mine when I just been curious. It takes 2.2 minutes, right? It's how can I out serve you? and hope they're trying to do the same thing back. Along the same lines, again, you can't move in with us. We can't keep you here for five hours,

but we have to summarize the last one as well quickly. Exactly what you were saying. So how can I serve you is phrase number three, which is, I just need you to know. I will let you down. Can I say the big neon sign for me, tell me I'm wrong, is you hedging that you're not going to,

to be enough somehow. All three of those statements have a thing at the end. That's what I want her to know. That's what I wanted to know. Yes. I know, but beneath that, she's already said, I know and I still want you.

I still chose you. So it feels like I'm not heard. And a big part of our argument, it was supposed to be a casual podcast turned into an argument. I love that. It was great. I love that.

I love podcasts like that. About like, I will let you down. Like you need to know. know that on a foundational level, I will let you down. I was like, yes, but living, yes, I took an oath to that on our wedding day. And no matter what happens, I know we will let each other down and I choose to love you. But if you live and wake up every day, saying to yourself, my foundational beliefs in the marriage are, it's not my job to make her happy. I will let her down. And I don't need

her she don't need her. I don't need her. These are not like daily mantras. No, but I said when you compile all three of those together as being the arguments and like the things that you need or want as like a belief system, to me it feels like such a pessimistic way to approach a marriage. I said, you might let me down. But you don't have to wake up every day saying I know that's going to happen. because then you're living a part of a life, you're living your life in a way of,

I would rather wake up and say, I'm going to try my hardest not to. And I think when it's, when I have my husband approaching me saying, I just need you to know, I'm going to let you down, what I hear, what I tell myself,

is, the story you make up about it. The story I make up about it is, you're already giving yourself an excuse as to why you made a mistake. You're already giving yourself a reason to explain why you messed up something. If you set your expectation and your level

and your standard at, I'm going to let you down. Oh yeah, last night I went to the bar and I actually, it's like, well, you set your standard there. You tried to set me up for, like, to expect that no matter what. That's what my brain goes to. Yeah, that's interesting. How does it make you feel? Like, that's a bad way to set your standard.

No, what's the real feeling, though? Sad. You just said that. What's the real feeling? I'm not understanding the question. It's all good. What are you about to say, Andrew? Let down?

What's the real feeling? You tell me. I'm not going to put feelings in you. Pissed? I don't know. You tell me. This is what I'm saying. It's hard to have these emotional conversations to even, it's a beautiful script.

But like I could see there being 10 minutes of like eagerly engaged pauses as we're each trying to sort of our emotions. In my house, we have a rule that is the person can't respond. All right, you have to ask permission. Can I respond to them? Like here's what I don't want to be different next time. Next time I want you to come in and just give me out. hope and not debate me yeah and i'm like i've got it like right and i'm gonna say last time i came in hug you and you told me just get off you because you had stuff to you right so but i want to come back

but that's not we're not we're not we're not trying to win i'm not trying to like you know you just got up on me like i got to like if if you've heard that old saying like if i win that exchange and she loses we both lost right and so it's disengaging myself from any kind of game can i i want to ask you something and you might be able to do this simply. Okay. This is me at my therapist here in Nashville. We're going back and forth and it's one of the most brutal exchanges I've ever had.

Did I tell you this? She golf clapped me. Have I told you this? Okay. I answered a question and she sits back and she probably didn't golf clap me, but I I guarantee she did. It just doesn't sound like her. But here's what I remember. Her sitting back and smiling and being like,

I was right. And I was like, you read about what? And she goes, you're smarter than me. And I was like, okay. And she goes, no, no, no. You've read more than I've read? You have an answer for every question. She's like, it's impressive.

And I was like, well, that's what I'm talking about. And we're laughing. Being my therapist sucks, right? I get that. And she goes, so next time you come in, we are going to make eye contact and we're going to do breathing exercises for the whole hour. We're going to say nothing. I'm going to say no words next session. So just buckle up.

And I started laughing. And I was like, since I'm so smart, I know that when you go to therapy, you talk to each other. And she said this. She goes, oh, John, you have every answer for everything. But you can't be in my presence and be okay with you. and I was like you can shut up later right

and so here is her homework assignment she goes do this for me she said make a fist and put it in your chest and look me in the eye and say I love this guy and I started laughing and she didn't

and we had a staring contest and I'm telling you all sure as I'm sitting here I physically could not do that it was the strangest and I was like I'm good And she's like, and then she let me off the hook.

She said, when you go home tonight, when you look in the mirror and do that. And I was so pissed on the way home. You can ask me to do anything. I could not look at another person and say that. And that's when I realized, oh, I got layers. And so then it became a matter of like, what is it about me that I dislike so much

that I have all these other protection mechanisms that I used to prop myself up so that nobody can fully go, I see that guy fully, and I still love him. And it was, it's my wife after we've been married for a trillion years, but her being like, I hate to say, I told you so, but I've been telling you for a long time, I just picked you. And I thought it was all this other stuff.

It was just like I picked you. So make a fist. I'm just kidding, you don't have to do it. But on your own show, it's harder than you think. Dude, just the idea of that is like, there's nothing. there's that's so unnatural in any other area of life really you know what I'm saying like in any other relationship it's unique in the marriage like the one relationship that you

choose right that that idea of oh she just she just wants me I don't like it's so unfamiliar well and that's that's I think that's the beauty of it is like every other if you distill every other relationship down it's transactional what can you do for me and what can I do for you and this one's like I picked you there's things we have to do but I picked you. And once we can settle into that's enough, then the skies, when we're both anchored into that,

and that, I'm, I'm, this is unsolicited. Y'all's new book is a, could not have been a more culturally necessary masterpiece in the middle of this moment.

Because it's when we're both anchored into, no, I picked you, not your awards, not your good looks. I picked freaking you. not for who I think you can become I picked you and I believe you picked me and now we're anchored

into this thing and we can do this thing called commit forever and I can go become an amazing version of myself because I'm tethered into this thing. Does that make sense? It's that I can repel way off the side of the mountain because that anchor ain't coming out.

Now I can go crazy stuff down there right? And that's that I'm so excited for the world to get that book out that's dope well thank you honestly you were but nobody nobody nobody has written that yeah nobody has written that's not cool no i'm citing y'all in my book that i'm turning in that book i already because it's so i was like yes yes yes and yes yeah okay i feel like april is always that point in the year where you really find out if you're sticking with your goals you said earlier or if life has kind of taken over yeah january motivation is one thing but by spring it's all about consistency

And for me, it's been about keeping a routine going even on the busy days when it would be easy to fall off. Same. I have realized the biggest thing for me is making wellness feel simple enough that I can actually stick with it. That's honestly where Kachava has been really helpful in my routine. Yeah, to become one of those easy staples for me, especially on mornings when things feel rushed or after a workout when I want something quick, it still feels intentional. And I like how customizable it is. I usually blend a mine with frozen fruit and nut milk and sometimes peanut butter if I want something a little more filling. The chocolate flavor has been my go-to lately. It's delicious.

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And it actually tastes really, really good, which makes it easier to stay consistent. Stick with your wellness goals. Go to kachava.com and use code e-S-Fam for 15% off. That's Kachava, K-A-V-A-V-A-com slash E-Sfam. I'm so happy you did this. Literally. Okay, what do we solve? What? I have a lot of new perspectives, to be honest.

Okay, what are the magic lines, though? Because perspective doesn't help like when we're tired in this in the morning. This is the story I made up. Yeah. This is how it made me feel and this is what I want different next time. Is that right? Do I have those? Just the realization that like...

How can I love you today? Yeah, dude. How can I love you right now? Yes. Thank you for that. I think a big one too is I get frustrated that you tell me how I feel. I do the same thing when I walk in and say, I can tell your mouth. You're feeling this.

Yeah. It's not my job. And then just how profound. it is that like I might be enough and that's a whole deal dude I don't know I've never had some of these thoughts you are it's just so not might hearing hearing bro talk about it to me it hits different I don't know like you know it's like I've just never heard that like that so anyway and I would tell you that is a worthy pursuit because you're never going to believe God really loves you if you don't think you're worth being loved unless you do this stuff.

You're never going to fully grasp how deep her love for you goes until and and vice versa, right? Like it's, yeah, until I fully recognize like, oh, I'm worth being loved. And that sounds so cheesy and cliche and whatever. I'm a big loud, tattooed up idiot. But it's so foundational to everything. You can have all this cool stuff around you. And if you don't think you're worth it, then it's nothing. I mean, you'll spin a spin and spin.

Thank you, dude. We did these three podcasts, and we literally said after everyone, I was like, we have to bring John in. We need him. Will you all come on my show, please? Absolutely. We'd be on. All right, cool. It reminds me we went to go see a comedy show with John.

It was John Chris show, Nebar Gatsy Open. He talks about couples counseling. So. Well, that didn't go. I thought I was. I did not see that coming. when he said like when you get a load of what I'm bringing it

dude I was sobbing sobbing that was so funny we're dying yeah yeah yeah thank you I appreciate you guys we have a lot to talk about