Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 314 | Therapy Lessons That Changed Our Lives

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

PRE-ORDER OUR BOOK HERE AND COME MEET US ON TOUR!! https://thecouragetocommit.com/ In this episode, we're sharing some of the secrets, fears, and experiences we've never talked about publicly before. We dive into the therapy lessons that genuinely changed our lives, family, and marriage, from understanding shame and anxiety to improving relationships, setting boundaries, and learning how to show up more authentically. Whether you're in therapy, considering it, or just trying to navigate life a little better, this conversation is full of honest reflections and practical takeaways. ➡ Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to https://kachava.com and use code EASTFAM for 15% off your first order. ➡ Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp.com/EASTFAM. ➡ Be prepared to save yourself a ton of time and money — just go to https://DUPE.com and tell it what you’re looking to buy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. We are trying out the new studio today. It is not built out. It's not fully decorated, but I think I'm liking it. You know what I like? What? Is your smile with how excited you are about this? I love decorating.

Love a new project. Oh, man. You did a great job. I love what you did here. I don't think it needs to change at all. It definitely will. These are a gargantuan made for solely from Montserie. Monsters Inc. chairs and they don't fit in the room. So if anybody wants four chairs, we will be selling them. There's some things that need to change. Sean and I have had a wild couple weeks. It's been so fun. We have been to, I think, five different cities. We're about to be to three different

new ones in the next week. We've done something like 31 podcasts. We've done so many podcasts. We've done a lot of podcasts. And we have been so incredibly. stressed for if I'm just being real. Yeah, it's been a stressful time because I think it's been, we've been more stressed than we have been in years. I literally had to write down on my phone, reminder, never to schedule any big voluntary life moment in the months of May, August, or December. Just because there's already enough changing. Yeah. You got in May, kids getting out of school out, school in August, and then holidays in December. You could basically say, no, December is month. It's always December. It's a stressful month.

It's always December. We always need to like do the holiday thing and then we have to go on vacation, which sounds ridiculous and so bougie, but like we can't handle the cold anymore. Nothing good happens. And by we, you mean we, we. You too. Okay. But yeah, no, life is good. It's the home stretch of our book launch. Like five days. Well, a week. June 13th is the official cutoff day for making New York Times, and that's when the stress can subside. And that's what we're going after is New York Times. So we love a big goal, and we're going to see how it pans out.

We will say in the process of this book, the marketing of it and everything that's come after we were done writing it is stressful because it's just like a lot. However, I'm not good at selling our own stuff. So bear with me. It's a really good book. The feedback has been great. You can say it's a good book. I'm excited about that. I'm actually very proud of like the words and the book.

If you haven't ordered the book, please do. Pre-orders help a ton and we'll link it down below. You can buy it on Amazon or all the different bookstores that we have in that link. But today, we're going to do an episode on things. Therapy lessons that changed our lives. Wow. And I'm excited about this because it reminds me of a lot of people like the asking inappropriate questions. And I feel like there's something there about people wanting vulnerability.

And I think therapy is a good way to harness that vulnerability. And so hopefully we can actually, you know, share some good lessons. We have done our fair share of therapy, solo and together. And it has been immensely beneficial in our relationship and in our, like, individual lives. Why? We actually write about this in our book that we feel mentors are really, what, you don't like me looking at that? Correct. It's a distraction, squirrel.

Correct. mentors are so incredibly important having outside perspective being able to have like a non-biased middleman to walk through things with I think is very very important and I feel like our therapy journey started before we got married we did premarital counseling and I feel like that was like the tip of the iceberg for like us being all bought in. on therapy. I, first of all, see all these clips online, people are like,

I was talking to my therapist about XYZ, which big fan of people going to seek counseling. But part of me is like, some of this stuff you should be talking about with Jesus, you know? You should take some of this stuff to the Holy Spirit, you know? So I had that thought. But then I also think that we've benefited from therapy because it pulls you out of that,

feeling that you're crazy or you're the only one who's ever felt this or that like I don't know what to do next. I don't see a path forward or how we can progress through this. And it's like, you know, a professional who has seen relationships day after day for years has a totally different perspective than you do going through it for the first time. So I will start by sharing one big lesson that I learned from therapy. This was a live counseling session we did with John Deloney, actually. And John Deloney will be joining us in our Nashville live show that we're doing next week. We're very excited.

We're doing our live tour. And John's joining us. It's going to be great. But I'll never forget that feeling of like the revelation, the epiphany that he shared of my takeaway. It was like the different operating system that you have than me. And just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong. And you're very oriented towards feelings. And that's great.

Thank goodness. I'm not programmed that way. But him saying that Andrew, you can't say her feelings are wrong, was like, I didn't know what to do with that. I initially pushed back against it. But they are. No, they're not. They just don't have all the control. You know, feelings are really helpful, but they don't have all the control.

facts don't have all the control either. Yeah, 100%. That's what I'm saying. My epiphany is. Yeah. I remember, I love John. Again, so excited. Come join us.

City Winery, Nashville show. We have Adam Doliacus singing, and John Delaney will be on stage with us talking about a lot of fun things. I remember one of our very first, it was after we got married, one of our first therapy sessions where we were on the phone with this woman.

Do you remember this? We were sitting in a parking lot. Yes. We guys are talking about like, why are you calling? Why are you checking in? And we're like, well, we just want to be smart about maintenance and, you know, preserving our marriage and being preventative. Proactive. And within like five minutes, she literally picked up on one thing.

And she was like, why do finances? Why are they a hard conversation for you guys? Do you remember this? Yeah. And I remember it opened up a lot of really good conversation. But one of my main takeaways from her that I have never forgotten is she said when two people fall in love and start dating. They are enchanted by the other person's differences. So I'm very type A perfectionist, super controlled.

I don't have, like I have a really hard time being in situations where you're like free and fancy free. And I fell in love with that with Andrew. I loved how free he was and how he didn't care about other people's opinions and he's so goofy and all these things. And she was saying that those things that you fall in love with that are different, as you get into a marriage and a long-term relationship, you start to try to morph your spouse into yourself. The things that you fell in love with are the things that will start to annoy you and the things that you'll try to change to be just like you. And I thought that was fascinating.

I don't know why that's always stuck with me, but it was this realization of the things that do annoy me are the things that are very different. And instead of changing them, I should embrace them. We should talk about them. But they are the reason why I fell in love with you. And that makes us a good team, I think. Yeah. this next one that comes to mind is from friend therapy i'll call it which i feel like counts because again what's friend therapy my it's just perspective that friends are able to give you in in regards to relationships this one's from mark ballast yeah i love you love this one it was huge

okay what is happening our book comes out in less than a week less than a week which feels impossible because we've been living and breathing this thing for so long. Seriously, though, this book holds so much of our hearts, the lessons, the mistakes, the hard conversations, the funny stories, all the things we've learned about commitment, marriage, ambition, and choosing each other through different seasons of life. And honestly, we're just ridiculously excited for you guys to finally read it, like to actually hold it in your hands. That part feels wild. Also, if you've been meaning to pre-order, this is your sign because we have packed the pre-order experience with so many fun extras. That's right. Bonus content, behind the scenes moments, exclusive videos,

a bunch of stuff that we're genuinely excited to share with you guys. Thank you for being a part of this journey with us. Your support has seriously meant the world. Pre-order the courage to commit now wherever books are sold and get ready because launch day is almost here. Okay, I am a big believer that wellness has to include little treats every now and then. Like if I'm trying to be a healthy 100% of the time, it lasts about three business days. Same. I need something that feels indulgent, supports my goals, which is why we have really been into Kachava lately because they just launched a new coffee flavor, and it is delicious. Honestly, they nailed it.

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Just two scoops gives you 25 grams of protein, six grams of fiber, and it actually tastes good, which is a very important detail. Treat yourself to a flavor and nutrition your body craves. Go to kachava.com and use code Eastpham for 15% off your own. order. That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A-com code used to family. He said, anytime your wife gives you constructive feedback, you have to assume that there's validity to it because she knows you better than anybody else. She sees it. I don't know why that hit me so hard, but it was like, sometimes I'm just certain that you're not seeing reality

clearly, you know? I used to be that way. And then, but now I understand I have blinders on to so many things that are subconscious habits or patterns that I have or ways that I speak or ways that I interact with people or my reactions to things.

And you have a totally different perspective. So when you say, hey, you've been doing X, Y, and Z, it's like, yeah, I need to listen to you because you're seeing it from an audience perspective. And I'm seeing it. I'm too close to the fire, you know. I can't see the forest through the trees, if you will. So I just love that of essentially, yeah. The forest through the trees?

Yeah. But you're in a forest. But you can't see the forest. You can't see the big picture because you're too focused on the trees in front of you. So it's almost like this. different perspective of assuming having having a generosity to assume your partner is trying to help you as opposed to like criticize you that's a good one you should remember that one okay when i try to bring something up sometimes i'm like you're and you're like yeah well you should also remember

there's a gentle way to bring it up and and not which brings me to my next one i remember this from pre-marital counseling, Dr. D. He was incredible. And the way he described it is he said, going into a marriage, you two are very different people. Like we all are. We marry a different person. He said, Andrew will speak Chinese, Sean will speak Russian, and you'll spend the rest of your life trying to learn each other's languages. And I don't know why that stuck with me so much, but it's this idea that we have different love languages, we have different priorities, we have different ways of thinking, We have different ways about emoting. We have different, like, everything.

And when you're blending two very different people, instead of just assuming, like, or getting frustrated of you're not understanding me, you have to, like, embrace this idea that you speak different languages. And it takes a lifetime to learn exactly how to speak the other person's language. I'm not sure we ever will fully,

but the beauty is in, like, learning and, changing and adapting. That's good. Because how many times will we get in an argument to a certain extent? Not an argument. People don't like when we say argue because they think we're like fighting. A disagreement.

But it's only because one of us is trying to say something and the way the other person interprets it is completely wrong. And it's like, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. I meant it in a different way. And it takes so many efforts trying to like. Translate. translate it or rephrase it. Yeah, I like that.

The next one that comes in mind for me is this idea that for whatever reason, it's like a paradox in your closest relationships, time doesn't heal wounds. It actually worsens them. And that's been a good motivation for me to resolve conflict that might be outstanding with the people that I care about most as soon as I can. And to reach out and have the hard conversation or the uncomfortable conversation. to say, hey, you hurt me in this way, or to say, I'm sorry for doing this,

as quickly as I can. And I feel like every ounce of my instinct goes against that idea because you're like, you know, you want to hold a grudge. And you want them to apologize or them to see how wrong they were. And usually both parties are at fault.

One person might be 99% at fault and you might be 1%. You got to own 100% of your 1%. I think, did we not do a podcast episode on that? I love that idea of like, just you, if there's an issue,

it's probably worth you apologizing. Even if you're not the largest part of the issue, you can start the conversation and take the edge off of the conflict by saying, hey, I'm sorry that I hurt you. And then that totally changes, that totally changes the relationship as opposed to waiting.

Do you know how to say I'm sorry? Do you? Oh my gosh. As opposed to waiting or expecting the other person to go. It's like it's a way healthier way to move through things in a way that preserves the relationship. You and I both get cut up in a, do you have something to say? Okay, another one.

This is maybe the most impactful one for me. After Bear, we've been very open about, we went into marriage counseling because like, A third kid just put us over the edge, trying to balance everything, trying to be like the best parent and best spouse, and we didn't really know how to prioritize things. And we did this counseling called Rock House where I was with a counselor solo and Andrews was with a counselor solo, but it was about marriage. It was so cool.

And their biggest takeaway is practicing every day for, giving people. Because the way my counselor would have explained it is, you know at night when you're laying in bed and someone did something that day that upset you, whether it's small or big, and you're laying in bed and you're like, I can't believe that happened. I can't believe they would do that. I can't believe they'd have the audacity and it builds and you start building resentment and you start making something way bigger.

She would always tell me, she said, in the moment, if you are upset with your husband or upset with someone because they cut you off at an intersection, actively try to say out loud, you know what? I actually forgive that lady for cutting me off. She probably didn't see me. Like when you rewrite the narrative to be so forgiving, it really makes, I'd say, 99.9% of the things you're upset about feel so small and so tiny. Yeah. That's beautiful. Forgiveness is an insane concept. But then the super beneficial part is like when you then start having two people in a relationship doing that for each other, like giving so much grace, then you notice you start trying harder for each other because you don't want them to have to be forgiving you more. It was crazy. It changed our life.

That's a good one. Next one that comes in mind for me is the idea that you have to define enough. this was something that, yeah, mentor counselors in our life shared with us that I just feel like hadn't hit me at that phase of life. I was like mid-20s, striving, had all these ambitions and goals. And then it was a combination of hearing this and also reading that book, The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry of like, man, we are finite creatures in an infinite world of options and possibilities and paths to walk down. And it's like, ah, you just have to define what is enough and in all the different ways. Like enough money to make, enough food to eat, enough places to

travel. It brings to mind this idea of like being content versus complacent. And like, you should always be able to tap into being content, always have that ability to see the beauty in whatever situation you're in, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't... It doesn't mean it strips you of your ambitions, but just understanding that you can't do it all or make it all or earn it all was like, oh, that's helpful.

My brain's unlocking so many now. I'm trying to like... Should we do rapid fire ones? Sure. Okay. Jordan Matthews. Okay. When him and Shana were on our podcast.

He said something that rocked my world. And I was like, oh, so good. He said, in your relationship, you can have such a beautiful relationship where, like, I trust Andrew, Andrew, Andrew trusts me. You can go do whatever you want. Like, it's totally fine. I trust you. But the way Jordan Matthews described it is, like, you don't have to do everything,

nor should you, because you should actively be choosing things that honor your spouse. Do you remember this? Mm-hmm. where he was like, he's like, who you follow on Instagram and what, who you're sparking up conversation with and who he's like making sure everything that you do in the back of your mind is this honoring my husband? Is this honoring my wife? Is this like the best thing to like uplift them and make them feel.

Yeah. Like the most celebrated thought of protected person in your life. I think was such a beautiful way to go about it. And the second one. or show you bounce? No. Okay. Oh, the second one was from Dr. D as well,

premiering counseling. Never speak poorly about your spouse. Ever. That's a good one. Specifically, he said to your family. So with my siblings and my parents, I should never say a bad word about my spouse to them because they're always going to take your side.

Yeah. And so if I say, Sean's being annoying, they're being like, yeah, you know what she is? Yeah. And then that causes this, crazy exaggeration of the issue that doesn't need to happen. And it causes divide. It causes more bias.

And I actually think we have done a phenomenal job of that. Thank goodness we got that advice when we did, though. Because it's so easy to be like, because things will come up. It's Thanksgiving. We've been there four days and you're tired because you didn't grow up in a crazy house. So you're like, let me go be in the room by myself. And it's like, part of me wants to say, yeah, Sean's just a little overwhelmed. and it's like, oh, yeah, she is.

And then it's like, yeah, don't do it. Don't do it. Another one that comes to mind is the idea that the human heart is not made for fame or all the opinions. That strikes me because, one, when you're on social media, especially during like election years, I feel like, it's like there's so many opinions of people are slinging all over the place. and everyone's so convicted in their opinion and maybe their opinions about you. But like, you can't sort through all of that. And it's overwhelming and you can't solve all the world problems yourself.

I do believe that you could solve problems in your neck of the woods and in your corner of the world. And that's like a beautiful place to start. But it also made me think, like, oh, what opinion should I be listening to? and it's like it kind of just shrunk my areas of influence for input and it took the edge off the other ones just understanding like man every person has a different opinion that's either really frustrating and sad and aggravating and offensive or it's beautiful and thank goodness and i don't need all of them to be equally weighted i don't need all opinions to have the same

input to my life. So my wife, my siblings, my close circle of friends, my pastor, those are really good inputs to seek. Who is that one from? Those from... Holcomb. Okay. I have four.

Okay. Hit them. But you're going to have to source them because I know who they are, but I can't, you know. The first one is a blending of Dr. D. and you're going to have to name the second person. But it's this idea, Dr. D in premarital counseling, he said, make a rule in your marriage right now. If you're both in this for the long haul,

he said, never use the D word. Divorce. He said, don't threaten it, don't use it, don't bring it up, don't put it in a sentence, don't put it in your vocabulary. It's not a word allowed in your household. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Okay, can we talk about summer for a second?

Because I feel like people fall into two camps. Either you are thriving. You have beach, days, trips, sunshine, fun plans. Or you're just trying to survive your schedule and wondering how it somehow got busier than the rest of the year. Seriously, though, I think summer can come with this weird pressure to make the most of every single day. And sometimes you realize you're running on empty, just trying to do all of the things. One thing that we have learned is that you actually have to build in time for yourself to, not just the plans, the travel, the commitments, but checking in on what you need as well. And therapy can be a really helpful tool for just that.

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Agree in your marriage to know that in any argument or disagreement, you know how the story ends. Yeah. Steve and Linda Zanaka. There you go. Which is with us still married, like don't ever put that uncertainty or use that as a threat in your marriage because if it is, then you can't have stability or like a foundation. and I have seen people and we've been around a lot of people who jokingly will talk about that and I think a lot of times that can that can breed an insecurity that otherwise wouldn't be there if it weren't for like the humor of it you know yeah number two because those are kind of like

blend this is from Sissy Gough and this is more parenting than marriage but it made me think it with the D word. Never, ever, ever use the word favorite with your children. That's good. Ever. Don't say it behind their back. Don't say it to a friend, kind of like speaking about your spouse, but don't ever play favorites.

Don't allow your brain to think it. Don't allow your brain to feel it. Never. Love that. Number three. That was, I lost it completely. That was two. Okay.

I got it. I'm back. I'm blending two more. It was John Deli. The Godmoney and the Institute. The Gottman. Gottman Institute. Guys, we have been so fortunate to interview so many professionals.

I hope you all have benefited from these interviews as much as we have. Sorry if you're sitting there listening and saying, oh, my gosh, you should ask this question and we didn't. We just kind of low- IQ people, so we don't always have the best questions. But we hope you benefited from them. John Deloney and the Gottman Institute both spoke of this. idea of bids B-I-D-S. And we do a decent job. I do feel like when this concept dips for us, we feel it, bids.

So in any given day, you have countless amounts of bids to each other, which are tiny little moments to make your spouse feel seen. And John Deloney and the Gottman Institute would argue that if you don't acknowledge bids, then you kill connection and you sacrifice like intimacy in a relationship. You're preaching right now, girl. And it's this idea of like, picture yourself sitting at the kitchen counter and next to the kitchen counter is the front door. And you're sitting at the kitchen counter.

You've been home for a while and all of a sudden your husband walks in. You're sitting there on your phone. This is a bid, guys. This is a moment where you can have a split second to make each other feel seen. lay down your phone make eye contact husband put your bag down make eye contact

say hello but like that that acknowledgement of you're in the room I see you I love you even if it's just for a second I feel like that actually has massively impacted our day to day routines

and we talk about Bev time you probably heard us say like after the kids go down we have five minutes of just conversation it was really because of that idea of we felt so frustrated and sad when we had these old habits of putting the kid down and we'd come downstairs and the other person would be on their phone. And it's like, it's like you don't even look up. So it was out of that frustration of, hey, I appreciate it when I come downstairs and you're waiting

for me there and ready to have a conversation and engage with me after all that chaos of bedtime. That's massively impacted us. It also makes me think of John and Ash Marsh, who had this idea of hospitality being I thought of you before you got here. Yeah. And that's applied to our marriage in the sense of like, how can I consider Sean and how I can maybe make her feel seen or loved right now in the smallest moments after the kids go down, not like in some grand way of, hey, you just came back from this big two-week trip and here's flowers and all these gifts.

It's like, no, how can I be hospitable? and the little moments is really wonderful. That's how I got. I have a couple. Okay. One, this is from sports psychology. I think Chad helped with this. Oh, Chad.

Rumination. I was ruminating on my craft of long snapping in football, and it was crippling me. I was overthinking. I was exaggerating the size of this issue. And I think that's happened. in other areas of my life, like conversations that Sean and I've had or, or like outstanding conflict and work. And it's like, oh, shoot, I'm making a monster out of this little

pip squeak issue. And you should just like just understand that things are usually not as big or as small as you think they are. We just dealt with us with our daughter the other, yesterday. She got really scared over riding Jets motorcycle. And she came up to me after she had talked to daddy and like going through you know trying to explain why she was so upset and I told Andrew that there is this beautiful moment with her where she was like I kept asking I said how do you feel she's like I feel really scared like so scared and I said okay okay okay take a deep breath it's okay to be scared but why are you scared and she's like because I rode the motorcycle and I was like okay what about riding the motorcycle it felt wobbly okay when did it feel wobbly at the end okay what happened

when it felt like breaking it down in your mind to make it as pinpointed as possible takes it from this catastrophized over umbrella arching feeling of like that was the scariest thing of it too oh yeah it's just because of this yeah i thought i was going to fall at the end and get hurt but you did it and you're okay And it really helped calm her down and make it like approachable. I didn't tell you this morning. She woke up, so 24 hours later. And she brought it up to me, unprompted. But she said something about, hey, Mommy, you know when I rode the motorcycle yesterday,

I wrote it farther than the ninja course. And it had switched all of a sudden. She was not speaking about a fear-based experience. She was speaking of a, I did that. And I was like, she made her what we called yesterday. She made her monster really small. Yeah. And I was like, dang.

I love that. That's marriage advice that we've gotten is make issues as specific and small as possible. Zoom in and don't say. What's like blanket say? I'll say that's a vocabulary, a very consistent word we use in our marriage is blanket statements. We say, we try to call each other out and be like, no, no, no. Don't blanket statement this. Don't make this tiny little moment.

Don't cast a blanket over the room. You never do this. I always take out the trash. One that just doesn't lead to a productive conversation. It leads to like frustration and clapback of, well, that's not true. I took out the trash last week. But it's like zooming in and just saying,

hey, I noticed that when I asked if I could do this, you responded aggressively in that specific moment. Yeah, we also try to correct each other in a gentle way of, you know, how it's easy to clap back at someone and be like, well, I'm sorry that I never do this. And it's like, no, no, no, no. I didn't say that. I'm referencing just now. I know that you do. We are good at that.

Stop it. One thing, this is another thing is not getting so triggered by the immediate frustration that just happened, letting patterns develop, and then bringing in a. up and saying, hey, I've noticed that you've done this over the course of the last four weeks. I would give an asterisk to that. It's helped me not nitpick. Yeah, but we also just said last night that sometimes it's good to just say like, oh, I don't know why with that, like, just bothered me and it's fine. Well, if you can, if it actually is fine, if it is fine, and that goes back to the forgiveness thing.

We haven't digested that one yet. the last one that comes to mind is a blend of Dr. DeMurchant and... Who's Dr. D? Dr. D. Another sports psychology idea of everyone has these, this Overton window, I think, is the term, where it's like this realm of normality, of words that you're used to hearing, styles and tones that are used to hearing, and that you deem acceptable in the window.

and that's different for everybody. And so understanding that you kind of have these self-imposed constraints that maybe other people don't play into. And also, beyond that, this idea that Sean came into the marriage with this idea of what a normal pattern is, with everything from chores to family rhythms to whatever. And the more you can discuss those and identify those and have awareness over those, the better off you are because then there's no unspoken frustration

or concerns or, well, I expected you to be the one who did X, Y, and Z because that's what I, my dad always used to do that growing up. And then, like, you just kind of talk through these things that ultimately you're able to go through as a team and say, well, then why don't we divide this in this way? Or, yeah, I can, I'm gladly, I can gladly take that and continue to do it. that but it just helps bringing forward some unspoken things. All right, I need to know if this is just me, but does anyone else turn buying one thing online into a full-time research project? Yes, suddenly you've got 19 tabs open, Reddit threads, YouTube reviews, conflicting

opinions, and somehow after two hours you trust your decision less. Literally I used duke.com's new research forming tool the other day and it was kind of amazing. I typed in what I was looking for and within a couple minutes it had a basic done hours of research for me. And not in a weird sponsored ad-filled way. It pulls from real sources people actually trusting, gives you a super clear breakdown of options, pricing, features, and even what not to buy, which honestly might be the most valuable part. That's right. Like, you can type in comfortable couch under $2,000, travel headphones, whatever you're shopping for, and it just gives you a straight answer on what's worth looking at. Which is amazing for people

like us who can accidentally spend an entire Saturday researching one. purchase. That's right. Be prepared to save yourself a ton of time and money. Just go to dupe.com and tell it what you're looking to buy. That's dupe.com. That's dupe.com to finally feel confident about what to buy. I like this. We've learned a lot. One of my favorite things about this podcast is being able to talk to people and learn their tips and tricks and tools to overcoming hardships or arguments or disagreements or insecurities or vulnerabilities or being proactive with things. I liked I liked this. We have learned a lot.

We have. That was fun to kind of just riff. Also, one big thing that we did with this book that we just wrote is, well, we wanted to clarify that we're not like experts on this, right? But what we have benefited from is so many wonderful mentors, counselors, therapists, coaches, teachers who have poured into us. And it's been a responsibility to try to steward that well. And I feel like we captured a lot of the meaningful advice.

that we've gotten in our life in this book. And that's why we're so proud of it. And that's why we have talked about it so much. And that's why we would be so grateful if you did pre-order the book. Because I feel like it, I feel like in some ways it does justice to the people. It pays back the people who have invested in us. So anyway, you can check that out in the link below. Please go pre-order it.

It's in the link below. I would also say one more thing. One of my favorite things about our book is we have had the privilege of interviewing and meeting and working with all of these professionals. And each professional, in my opinion, has mastered and specialized in one category, you know, business, family, faith, whatever. And then even zoomed in more than that, it's like how to get over arguments or how to find happiness or joy. and I feel like what we did really well in the book is we took all of them and put it into an overarching process and system for your entire life.

Like we went really hard for a couple years and tried to optimize and audit and reflect and maximize the joy of our marriage. And then we did the same thing after we figured out like a system and rhythm that worked for us there, then we did it in business and then we did it in parenting. And we've put all these systems and protocols. and processes and tips and tools and tricks together in a fluent way that kind of gives you this optimizing of life, which is really fun. There's a ton of practical exercises in there, everything from how to form your values,

how to set goals, how to find mentors, how to know when to quit something. How to schedule your week out so it brings you joy. So I hope you benefit from it both in the day-to-day practicalities, but also in the philosophical approach to life that I feel like we have. Anyway, that was fun. That was fun. Love your takeaways. Would love for you all to share any major takeaways that you've learned through therapy or counseling or this show.

That would be great. And that's how we got. From our new studio for the first time, that's all we got. I'm Andrew. I'm Sean. We'll see you next time. Hope to see you on the live tour as well. Andrew and Sean out.