Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 318 | What If Your Spouse Never Changes?

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Most arguments don't start with the words we say- they start with the meaning we attach to what happened. In this episode, we dive into the stories we create in our minds, the assumptions we make about each other's intentions, and how those stories can shape the way we see reality. Sometimes our minds are protecting us from something that isn't true… and sometimes they're pointing out something that genuinely needs to change. We have an honest conversation about marriage, conflict, expectations, and the moments when we have to ask ourselves: "Am I seeing the situation clearly, or am I reacting to the story I've created?" We talk about why two people can experience the same moment completely differently, how to separate assumptions from truth, and what it looks like to take responsibility while still holding each other accountable. Because growth isn't just about changing ourselves or changing our partner—it's about learning when to challenge the story in our head, and when to listen to what it's trying to tell us. Let us know what you think about this one! We love you guys! Shawn & Andrew Take your daily ritual with you. Go to https://kachava.com and use code EASTFAM for 15% off your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You know what? This is the 300th time this has happened. And I don't know how many times I can remind you that like this is something important. Wait, now what are you talking about? Now, now I'm confused. And I'm scared. And I'm scared. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. I am excited for this one. Should we give him an update? Last week was the 4th of July. We went to the lake. And it was an absolute blast. What was your favorite part of the? the lake? Just hanging out with the kids. They were in such a different stage this year. I felt like being able to see them almost have like a little more sense of freedom and play in the lake.

And they like understood the rules of the lake more. They were so inquisitive about how boats work. It was a lot of fun to watch. Ripped around on the jet ski. We floated in the water, jumped off the dock, played with the cousins. We kept them up for for fireworks this year, which we had never done. I mean, we, did we? Well, we kept them up for fireworks and then the fireworks got rained out, unfortunately. Yeah, so we didn't make it to the fireworks. We never saw any fire. Well, we saw fireworks across the lake, but not the big show.

We did. We did. But today, we're going to do an episode that I've been thinking about for a while now. It's so interesting, I feel like when you talk to a couple who's in a good spot versus a couple who's in a bad spot, there's this framing of narratives, the stories that you tell yourself of interpreting reality is so different. And so today we're going to be talking about how to frame arguments, how to frame your perspective in a way that might suit your goals with your relationship. And I think like the idea here is that a marriage or relationship isn't just built on

the series of events that happen, it is built on how you interpret what happens. And I think that in our marriage, we try to give each other the benefit of the doubt or be generous with the interpretation of what's happening because what can happen is two people who might be a couple can experience the same situation, but tell different stories about it, good or bad. And so to a certain extent it's kind of like a choice of what perspective that you have. Does that make sense? It is. I think we have had our fair share of arguments and trying to figure out how we're both interpreting them has been a challenge. But there's also such a fine line of understanding what's also accurate. So I think for me in this topic and when I'm excited to like work through is the idea of

it matters how you frame it and it matters how you're understanding it and what position, but you also can't be naive to like... The reality. The reality. And so if one partner is constantly painting this picture of, well, they're just reading the reality wrong. It's like that's not healthy either.

That's an interesting thought. Because you can take a bad situation and just say, oh, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And that's not healthy. I am, yeah, I don't think it's good to just try to gloss over things or try to put lipstick on a pig, as they say, you know? But what if the pig always thinks that they're not a pig, you know? Yeah, yeah, no, you're saying don't try to alter reality.

I'm saying within this argument of what you're saying, reframing arguments and like always giving each other the benefit of the doubt and always giving each of their grace absolutely i agree with that but as we dive through this what i want to work through is this idea of how do you know how when do you take a step back and say i am the problem yeah no it's super good rather than saying they're just reframing this argument well i am all on board with that that can i tell you what made this come to mind for me what and what really like the jarring revelation I had was we had a couple, we had a friend who they ended getting divorced. And then the way you hear them talk about that relationship, it's like, oh, well, he was

always working or he was always traveling. He never wanted to be with the kids. And you're like, really? Is it like, it seems like the split that happened, the divorce that happened, the divorce to happen. But how do you know that's not accurate? Well, what I'm saying is I'm sure there's, there was a like pivot point psychologically where the person was like, yeah, yo, no, they just, they never were with the kids or they were always working, which is definitely one way to interpret reality. But before the split, let's just say when they were in a good spot beforehand and together,

it's like, oh, he's just like, I'm so grateful for how he contributes to the split. the family. You know what I'm saying? And then it's like you can flip so easy. And that's what I'm saying is that is a responsibility to steward and it's something to be aware of. What's what go ahead. I agree. It's an important part of your job as a spouse to always like be giving grace and be forgiving and try to look at the bright side. However, there is a massive asterisk there of We don't know the circumstances and situation at home with this friend. For sure. What if he truly didn't want to be with the kids and was never around?

And that's where it's like you can only paint a happy picture so much before you have to paint a realistic picture of, oh yeah, this is a problem. And we need to address it and fix it. Well, this is also interesting, I guess applying that to couples who aren't married. and when you might be being generous in a way that's not merited of like, oh, hey, you split up for good reason because there's bad habits, but you're giving the person the benefit of the doubt now that you're split up and you're like, oh, well, let me go back to that relationship because now I'm sad and lonely and their bad habits actually weren't that bad. So let me try to pretend like that's okay. I'm excited for this. Yeah. I'm excited for this. Okay. And I think you had a stance that I was not expecting. So the plot. thickens. All right. So I think we always have a stance that we're not expecting. I'm thankful for that.

So an example of this is you can interpret one of the stories from he forgot or I forgot because I didn't care versus he forgot because he's overwhelmed, but he still loves me. You know what I'm saying? So that's like the same reality, the same fact, different marriage experience. different interpretation. And I think, you know, have you ever notice that when you're in a good place, when we're in a good place, everything can get interpreted positively? There's kind of like this halo effect. But when you're frustrated, everything becomes evidence to some of your resentment or grudge or frustration with them. And you're like, well, see, you never take out the,

and we talk about blanket statements we have before. People love that episode. And there's tendency like to your point i for sure am a flawed human being you know i'm saying like yes i have so many reality flaws bad habits mistakes little goofball things that i do that should be changed you know what i'm saying but it is a different experience to view those things from a i guess this goes back to the expectation conversation that we had too but like it's a different experience to view that as, oh, I love that person despite their flaws compared to that person has so many flaws and I'm trying to love them. You know what I'm saying? Which takes the cake, which has more space in the room, if you will? Definitely the first one. I mean, I love that person despite

their flaws. But if we're going to start pulling out other podcasts and other things, one of the things that you always preach is this idea that in a marriage, you should be trying to better each other. And so settling, which is a word that we don't like, but I will use it here, for flaws that you know your spouse is capable of bettering, I don't think is a role as a spouse that you should have.

You want me to hold you to the high, highest standards and the highest. Yes. But at the same time, you want me to say, oh, I know you just made that mistake for the 700th time. It's okay, you know. There is a massive difference there in saying, I need to hold you accountable for, I know it wasn't, I can reframe the argument in my mind and say, I know it wasn't

malintent. Yeah. Or I can hope it wasn't. Okay. but at some point it's my job to hold you accountable and saying and vice versa of like this is something that does need to change yeah and i think some of the things that you're stating here yep is this idea that you just should forever give grace and say you know it's okay or tell yourself in your mind And you know what?

I'm fine with that because I know or I assume in his heart it wasn't malicious. And it's like, well. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking is really important. Yeah, but at some point you need to be able to have direct conversations where you're saying, you know what? I hope it wasn't malicious, but this has to change. Instead of reframing an argument and just like, oh, it's, you know. I don't know if I'm trying to live in a utopia here.

I think what you're trying to describe is this idea that we're just both floating around and always giving each other grace for whatever it is they're doing with no accountability, no change and no... That's not what I'm asking for. Like, realistic view of what is actually happening. I think I agree with the first part of what you're saying.

We're both floating around with a lot of grace. What if I just became a horrible human being? and I was like, why are you assuming I'm horrible? Why are you painting that picture? What if you became a horrible? What I'm saying is I trust you enough to, like, the idea of you intentionally doing that maliciously legitimately has never occurred to me in our 10 years of marriage.

No, I know. And I would like to preserve that, you know what I'm saying? So that's like this element of trust where it's like, no, I don't, no, you're not intentionally malicious. so if you have a flaw, it's like, yeah, I can have a lot. But if I start to do something, if I start to have a tendency to do something that doesn't fuel our marriage, that doesn't build you up, it tears you down, is it your job to just say, I give you grace for that, and that's okay?

Or is it your job to say, you know what? That actually hurts me. That's where I'm saying the whole reframing the argument gets sticky for me, because, Because if you're trying to keep life vague and just always forgive me, which like, yes, but just let me go do my thing, then I think. And so this goes back to the three things I say. I'm not saying for you to always forgive me. What I'm saying is I will always forgive you. And I will always give you grace. I'm not expecting it as please always give me grace. I need it. it's I will always give you grace. And I do think that has amazing ramifications.

I also am not saying don't hold the other person accountable, but there is this timeline in marriage because it's a long time, forever, that there should be an awareness that's unlocked from if I do something that hurt you, that I should be able to say, oh, yeah, that I shouldn't do that anymore, as opposed to you saying, you always hurt me. You know what I'm saying? You know what's fascinating is every time we come up with these ideas for a philosophical debate, something like that comes out where I'm like, huh, where did that come from?

What do you mean? Oh, what do you mean? Yeah, Andrew, you should have this self-reflective awareness to say, oh, that hurt you. I should say sorry rather than me saying, you know what this is the 300th time this has happened and I don't know how many times I can remind you that like this is something important are you talking about the live stream no what now what are you talking about now that I'm confused and I'm scared and I'm scared I'm sorry I'm sorry bringing up a very large decision Okay, yeah, yeah.

We can talk about that later. Okay, so what I'm saying? In good seasons? But like you said, at the end there, we should be able to hear each other's conversations, assume no malintent, give grace and forgive. But be able to self-reflect and be like, huh, there is a pattern here that I'm being told as a pattern. I should be able to realize this ahead of time and say, I feel like I don't know actually what we're talking about.

Oh, my gosh. I'm so scared. Oh, my gosh. I'm going to start sweating. Back to the awareness part. I think I, I think I'm dumb. I think I'm dumb. Well, anyway.

Okay. So in good seasons, though, let's just take some state. of was once this and now we're not in a good space so it's now it's this so you could say in a good season they're ambitious in a bad season you might say they're obsessed with work and a good season you might say they're funny in a bad season you might say they're immature in a good season they're spontaneous bad season they're irresponsible we've experienced that one in a good season they're passionate in a bad season they're emotional Oh my gosh.

I am. You scripted this. And if you're subconscious scripted this. And you had no clue as you're writing that this is exactly what we argue about. You have a problem. We've for sure gotten way better about this, the understanding of each other. and the grace that we have with each other, thank goodness. So I think what's interesting about those compare and contrasts

is that the trait of the person didn't change, the interpretation of that trait did, okay? I'm going to lighten the mood here for a second and jump to a different conversation, not in marriage, but a way, we were literally talking about this yesterday with our best friends. Just an example of like power of the mind. You have to be able to control the power of the mind.

but we had a child psychiatrist, a pediatrician, and a pre-marital counselor, all say the same thing in different phases of life. They said at no point do you ever choose a favorite child, ever. And never allow yourself to. Don't think about it. Don't allow the thought. If the thought creeps in, you push it out.

I've learned this in gymnastics. You've learned this in football, that your mind holds control. You can control whether the negative thought, seeps in or you can literally like get rid of it in your mind think of like Bruce almighty that that was always my image and what I was taught is like picture yourself writing down the negative comment on a post-it note wadding it up into a ball and throwing it out the window so to me that's like how I would stop negative comments but this idea of like a favorite child

we had all these people say this and this was like even before kids but they said if you ever have multiple kids like never choose a favorite don't ever choose a favorite your child will feel it your family will feel it and then it will grow to be a problem you will grow to like feel a resentment towards one you'll grow to find favor in another and so and i have actively practiced this every day since we had all kids where it's like if anything creeps into my mind it's like no people will literally we've had people point fingers and almost like berate where they're like you definitely have a favor of it you for sure and it's like i genuinely do not i couldn't because i have tried to practice every day for the past seven years building up my children in my mind to like know their flaws sure but also just like

put them on such a pedestal in my mind that they're all equal and i think you can do the same thing in marriage 100% yeah and i don't think there's any other relationship beyond family that that that type of effort, i.e. generosity is extended or should be extended. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I choose to put on the lens, the glasses of this person deserves grace. This person is worthy of love. This person is worthy of my love. And I think that is a conscious choice every day. because when your family, you see more than anyone else the flaws and the things that don't deserve love and the things that need to change. And so it's like, are you going to wear the glasses of criticism? Or are you going to wear the glass of love? So anyway. Okay. So, but I think it is a, it's a marriage superpower

when you're able to give that generous interpretation. And I think that healthy couples are not couples who don't mess up, who don't make mistakes. They're couples who are the ones that are generous, with the explanation of what happened. Let's go back five minutes when you said, I don't know what we're talking about. I'm kind of scared. You freaking wrote this. Schedule?

Did you write this? Are you talking about scheduling? Did you type this out? Are you talking about scheduling? Okay, this is our biggest argument right here. Okay, so here's the example. This is a hypothetical example. It's not hypothetical at all.

It happens weekly. Weekly. Your spouse is late, okay? The ungenerous story is they don't respect my time. maybe that's reality the generous story is they were trying to finish something important and miscalculated maybe the first hundred times okay if your spouse is quiet the ungenerous interpretation is they're ignoring me the generous one is they're overwhelmed and trying to process the important distinction is that generosity does not mean pretending problems don't exist

it means that I will address the problem without attacking your character. I have so many asteris here. Say them. I'm curious. I am here learning. How do I address the problem a hundred times over the same way with no change? You're saying this is the generosity. Are you saying there's been zero change in my scheduling responsibility?

Are you saying that? all I remember is there's definitely been changed in your scheduling responsibility. That's all I'm asking for. Just know that I'm putting in the effort and thank you for the effort of the generosity. But I think the reality side is when this happens, there's not a shoot, I'm sorry. I know I did that again. I know that like is a trigger for you. it's like a why does this still bother you you know i don't feel that way as we're sitting here on

neutral ground i don't feel that way but not on neutral ground that's how you feel in the argument that's why i'm like it's got to be a two-way street with the assumptions of when when a repeated offense happens i don't all like immediately think there's maliciousness or like a of self-awareness, I think it's a mistake until it's brought home with obliviousness. And like, why are you, why did that bother you? You know, and that's where it's kind of like. Does that come after an apology? Because I'll say, I agree with you wholeheartedly if I'm not apologizing.

I feel like I. I will say the last one, which was last week. Okay. The men's group text. Okay. There was not a come home. There was no apology. I started.

Okay. I'm sorry. So I think the, the, the, I agree. I want to be all to paint a more beautiful picture at all times. But sometimes that weight of doing it solely can feel too heavy. So what do you mean by doing? it solely. With no awareness or

like apology. And that's probably that might be a me issue. Maybe I should be able to do it so like on my own at all times. I do this make sense? I would say it would be a miss

on my part to not have an awareness about it and not apologize for it. So if I have anything left to apologize for let me know, please. And I am sorry. If I make a mistake, I would love to own that mistake. What I am, what I'm, what I am trying to get out with this, the script that we were talking

about before is like, it can't feel like a nuclear bomb that then ruins. This is way too specific. You wrote this. You're bringing this up. Okay. Here's, here's counselors, friends, followers. I'm curious to see the feedback on this. I want to see the feedback.

Here's the deal. This has been going on since we dated, okay? Historically speaking, we come from two upbringings. Andrew's upbringing. Fancy, free, flexible. Always late. It's okay, but always late. Because any immediate commitment or place you are

is the most important to be. You would never rush to get out of a moment to get to a scheduled moment because it would, you would, what would you say? It's like, you would never sacrifice any type of quality time to hurry to an appointment of anything making. My dad was often late. Probably usually late. Yes. But it's not from him, you know, waking up late, sleeping in.

and being a degenerate. It's from him. He would wake up at 4 a.m. He would go and like meet with people all day. And part of his superpower was like the, oh my gosh, this person is listening to me like I've never been listened to. This person loves me like I've never been loved. And I'm like, yeah, he's late.

And that's a tough thing. But in my mind, it's a tougher thing if my dad would have always, been on his phone 10 minutes before my time with him is done and saying like trying to let everybody know like hey I'm in route or you know take the screen time distraction that as soon as you and I are have an eye contact if I'm here that totally breaks the fragile connection that can happen so continue so that's Andrew's background my background is the opposite like promptness being on time if you weren't 15 minutes early

you were late was how it was raised so much so that even within professional gymnastics we had this like looming threat of if you were ever late you were kicked off the team

okay so I value and like was just raised with like being on time I was also taught that being on time was respect and that's what they always taught me now into our relationship

Which I also think it's respectful. Okay. Now into our relationship, a repeated thing that keeps happening that we have talked about dozens and dozens and dozens of times is the difference here. And the difference being Andrew and I will schedule things, things together, things with friends. And more than once, dozens and dozens and dozens of times, we will see. schedule something where it's like, I'll say date night just because it's like date night, date night or I have something on the schedule where we have to like change who's watching

the kids or just something on the schedule that affects both of us or affects me. He'll be at a pre-scheduled event, men's group, golfing with friends, in a meeting. And instead of telling me he's going to be late, you will just show up. past the time where you scheduled to be with me. I would say I'd let you know. I'd probably send you a message after I'm done with that thing, and I'm late. Yeah,

I send you a message passed on. There's never a warning. It's like, we're supposed to meet at 11. I shoot you at text at 11.05. Never true. Not true. You will call me at like 1135, 1145,

1145 saying I'm on my way home. Yeah, so I don't just show up is what I'm saying. No, but. No, we're agreeing with that, how that goes down. Yes. You don't just show up, but you will call me after the time.

After our scheduled time. And so what happens is I'm now left with this 45-minute window where I am already somewhere or I'm with the kids and now I'm late for my thing and I'm like, I don't know

when he's going to show up. The example from the other day last week was you actually tried to do better. You texted me, not saying you're going to be late, but you said you would be home by 715. I let her know before I walked into the meeting, which is a 6 a.m. meeting. So we're like scheduling this for friendliness, for family activities. I said, I'll probably be home around 715.

Good morning, babe. I'll probably be home around 715. And then. No, your text said, I'll be home by 715. Okay. Good morning, babe. I'll be home by 715. And then we got this really good discussion.

Because what time did you walk in the door? You didn't call me or text me when you're on your way home? 7.55. Oh, door from home. Yeah. You showed up at 755. I was on my phone zero times during that entire hour, 50 minutes. And the argument is why can you not take 10 seconds before the time comes that you're supposed

to meet me or switch with me or let me get to my appointments and say, I'm not going to make it? And his argument is always, I can't take away the intensity and the intention from where I'm at. Now it's time for ads. Here we go. Today's episode is brought to you by Kachava. One thing I've realized about myself is I like having a few constants every morning. I get outside as soon as I can, get a little sunlight, take a little ice bath, have my coffee. It just helps me feel like the days actually started. The problem is, Summer travel can throw all of that out of the window. Yes.

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That's Kachava, K-C-H-A-V-A-com, code E-S-Fam. Okay, so let's keep chugging through this thing. I feel like there's a math problem, marriage, that every marriage has two ledgers that can be kept. The list of things that your spouse has done wrong or the list of reasons that you're grateful. And you get better at whichever list you practice. I think if you rehearse the annoyances, the disappointments, and the failures, you become really good at noticing those things. I think if you rehearse the sacrifices, the effort and the growth, you become better at seeing those. I think the failures are more

visceral and more noticeable. I think the growth can be slower and less noticeable, but it might be there nonetheless. And it's like, yeah, if you're going to be in a marriage, you might as well choose to make it a good one. Choose to see it as a good one. When relationships end, humans naturally try to create a coherent story. Why did this happen? The brain likes clean narratives. So sometimes that becomes, I should have known all along, or they were always like this. But real relationships are usually more complicated. A person can be a loving spouse for years and hurt you.

A season can have genuine joy and genuine problems. Two things can be true. Yeah, we talk all the time about how joy and pain go hand in hand. I think you can have a good marriage and problems. You know what I'm saying? I think there's probably some existential problems. I think it's a short list. that makes it an existential like, oh my gosh, this is, we cannot call this a good marriage right now

because it needs to be taken care of. But I would say most problems, you can have problems with a good marriage. What do you think about that? I agree. Yeah. So I think the reverse happens too. I think sometimes in breakups, there's some romanticizing of the past. I feel like when someone breaks up, because they didn't share the same values or they had unhealthy patterns. You know, months later, we've talked to people where their interpretation now is that those things really were not that big of a deal. And maybe I should just go back to them. I think the brain kind of edits the, the,

undeal-withable problems in a positive. positive light. Like maybe there's this aspect of desperation and dating that doesn't necessarily apply in the same way in marriage. But I feel like in those situations, hey, he was unreliable, which maybe he was, he actually was just inveterious or she was really critical becomes, oh, she just had high standards. And it's the same person they're talking about, but a new narrative. talk about the psychology of it. Why our brain does this. People naturally want stories that reduce discomfort.

So after divorce, people will say things like it was always doomed. And that can definitely feel easier than saying a beautiful thing slowly broke. Or like after a breakup, people might say it wasn't actually that bad. And something that can always feel easier to say that I miss someone who's still, wasn't the right person. Life is complicated, but our brains like the simple explanations. That's right. I think in a marriage, it's important to hold the complexity of it all and the paradoxes of it. I think in a mature marriage, it requires both people saying my spouse frustrates me sometimes and my spouse is a gift. I think it requires them saying my spouse needs to grow and so do I.

I think it requires them saying I can be hurt and I could still be charitable. So anyway, is there anything that you've seen big growth in me, a problem that I used to have that you've seen me grow out of? You've gotten a lot better with scheduling. Thank you. Thank you. What about me? I think that you have come to, I think that you've come to,

understand my problems more generously. And I will say that I feel like, I feel like you've been more patient with me in the conflict as well. And I think you've gotten better at sharing your emotions and more of like a flow state as opposed to trying to compartmentalize in a way that's not necessary or helpful.

Like maybe you had to previously in competition. So kudos to you. Keep up the good work. Same to you. What's something I do, what's something you do that deserves a more generous explanation? I mean, my gut reaction is to say all of my problems, you know, which in some ways, maybe that's right, but it's not for me to say that. But I would say, yeah, I think maybe it's just the harshest issue comes to mind first, but the scheduling thing. I'm like, I, I, I hope you know that when I'm late, it's for good reason and I don't schedule a lot of things intentionally knowing that that's my tilt.

And so if I do schedule something, I guess maybe it'll help for me to explicitly say this. I hope that there is this understanding that like, one, he's excited to show up to that thing that he's scheduled because he hasn't scheduled a lot of other things. two. There's a chance that because he's there, he might be late. And I think for the most part, I've had some big misses for sure. I do have an awareness about the schedule. And I'm still trying to figure out how to navigate, navigate through, how to pair the whimsical. Oh my gosh, phenomenal conversation that I don't interrupt with the hard and set scheduling. So how's that?

What's something you do that deserves more generosity? Probably the schedule. What? Something you do with the schedule? You need more generosity with? Oh, from the more hard and fast virginity with. That's so interesting. I would say, I'm learning stuff, dude.

If I have a conversation with you and we look at the schedule, and we look at how much we look at, you know, okay, you booked golf from two to six. We're going to go do this at 6.30. Does that feel good to you? Like, are you good with that? If you agree and I hold you then accountable to that, I think that deserves more generous explanation

instead of, yeah, which is both of us asking for. But then I'm. I'm like, if you are scheduling it intentionally, right? Then that always becomes part of our argument. Then technically in your mind, you have a prioritized one that you're not sharing. If you're willing to miss one or show up late to one, it comes across like a, well, in my mind, that was always the fallback of I can I can buffer the other one I scheduled I think a lot of times one I play golf maybe twice a year now because of that I was because no I know because because

golf has been the thing that's like I have no idea how long this is going to last I have no clue it might be six hours and it might be four and so one weird side effect of this scheduling issue is like Sean now probably over budgets for time things when it's put on my schedule. So be like golf is going to take seven hours. I'm like, there's no way it's going to take seven hours. Let's be realistic about this. And then it's like, okay, it takes five hours. In my mind, I thought it was only going to take four.

You're like actually, yeah, maybe we should over budget or what's the compromise in between. I will say this. In this area, I have tried to grow quite a bit. in our conversations. And I have said this multiple times, which is I've now tried to remove the hurt or like the offense to myself and understanding that like I've seen it repetitively

over the course of the past 12 years. And I've seen your family and where it comes from. Like I understand it more. But as your wife, I don't like the reputation it builds for you. And I don't like, people looking at you in a way that they don't understand or see the historical pattern and they don't know where it comes from so it comes across as disrespect.

To who? Like in my mind, I'm like that feels like it's exaggerating a problem and where I'm like, who people, who, who, who are these people? I think it can come across disrespectful to business people and friends when you show up late. Yeah. And I get defensive for you, protective over you. I appreciate that. I don't want you to be painted in a bad light.

So that's where we started at the beginning of this conversation, which is like, I think part of my job is to hold you to a higher standard instead of always just saying it's okay, you know. Were you thinking about scheduling the whole time from the very beginning? You literally wrote it in the example. Yeah, but that was like midway through. How do you feel like we're doing with being seen in a positive light by our close community? I don't know.

I hope that. Yeah, me too. Yeah. You know, I hope it's based off of the fact that we treat people well, you know. So I guess the details are the devil's in the details there, you know. That was a fascinating conversation. Yeah. I learned a lot.

lot. That was really good. And this started off as a live stream. So coming in hot. But thank you all for listening. I'm super curious to get your take on this reframing. And like, yeah, to me, when the split happened between our friends, it was like, oh, that was such a drastic reinterpretation of reality that it just got, it just got me challenged of how am I receiving things. And does it, does it suit or fit what I'm saying? Good talk. I love you. I love you.

That's how we got. I'm Andrew. Until next time.