Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 325 | how to know when it's time to break up?

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

Breakups don’t always have to end with burned bridges, bad blood, and an ex becoming the villain of the story. In this episode, we’re talking about what it looks like to end relationships with grace, how we talk about our exes after the fact, what we’ve learned from relationships that didn’t work out, and whether it’s actually possible to walk away while still respecting what you once had. We’re getting honest about heartbreak, boundaries, forgiveness, and why the way you end a relationship can matter just as much as how you started it. Love you guys! ⮕ Find egglife wraps chillin’ in the fridge at Aldi, Whole Foods, Kroger, Target, Walmart, and more. Visit www.https://egglifefoods.com to find a retailer near you. ⮕ Go to www.https://davidprotein.com/EASTFAM. Buy four cartons and get the fifth free. ⮕ Upgrade to luggage that looks better, lasts longer, and travels smarter. Head to www.https://NOBLTravel.com for up to 46% off your entire order. ⮕ Ready to simplify your cleaning routine? Go to www.https://BranchBasics.com and use code EASTFAM for 15% off the Premium Starter Kit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Were there tears on there was like? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard. And so it can be really hard to just be like, I don't ever want to see or talk to you again because like that's not true. But it's also like I still know I'm probably not going to marry you.

So what do we do here? I still get a little jealous, you know, when you talk about it. She kissed you. Oh, bye. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. Today I made Andrew switch sides with me and I think it made you uncomfortable.

We have done 340-some-odd podcast. And I think I've always been. on the other side. I know, and I think it's why I have a kink in my neck. No joke. I thought these swivel chairs would help, but they don't. I also made the observation the other night that we have like concrete dinner seats, and I think we need to change that.

Why? What are you feeling all exotic for? I think it encourages flexibility amongst our children. Trying to wreak havoc in our home here, just jumble things up that don't deserve jump. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know? I am curious, before you turn to this, at your dinner table growing up. Same seats. Every single night.

I could still, I haven't thought about this in a long time. We had a little dining room. My dad would sit at the head of the table. Always. My oldest bro would sit on the other side. Mom would sit on my dad's left side. I would sit closest to the window next to my other older brother. And I went, Grant.

Yeah, yeah, same seats. I love that. Yeah. I think I'm going to change. choose to feel passionately about the flexibility needed in our household. On this issue? Yep. Miss flexibility all of a sudden.

You know what else we'd do every dinner? What? We would slam a gallon of milk together as a family. Crazy. We'd have milk with our spaghetti. Culture back then. Yeah. I had milk every single night with dinner.

Milk with soup, milk with whatever pasta, milk with meat. I don't know if it's like topping you in strangeness, but we would have a, a full glass of milk with every, pretty much every meal. But especially for dinner, my mom would pour our glasses of milk early. And we would put them in the freezer.

And you would keep it in the freezer until the top froze. It's like the top centimeter. And that's when you knew it was ready. Never did that. And all good things must come to an end. So we no longer slam milk at dinner. We really don't. And that's kind of the theme of the podcast is how can you let things end well?

That was a really smooth transition. It's ridiculous. Oh my gosh. Ending relationships. We were recently speaking with some friends who were talking about how they had some pretty toxic, volatile kind of, what do you say? Bridge burning ends to previous dating relationships, previous romantic relationships that they had. And I got to thinking.

One, Sean and I have freely spoken about. about our exes without naming names. But we, that was, I feel like an important part of us getting to know each other was like, hey, tell me about who you've dated and how they've impacted you, and that's part of your story. It's also been fascinating to have conversations

with a lot of friends who either take one side or the other with this. They either say, yes, we approach our relationship so much to you guys. Like, we wanted to know about exes. We wanted to know about, you know, details, I guess, to whatever extent. And then other friends who are on the other side

where they say, I don't want to know anything. I don't need to know it. And I'm like, huh. To each their own. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I'm super grateful for is the way in which you talked about your exes.

Hopefully I emulated this as well. But you're not saying that it's not about what you do. It's about how you do it. Yeah. I feel like there is a way in which we could speak about previous relationships in a way that respects you, the person I'm dating, or in a relationship with. and in a way that respects the person that we're talking about. And that's the goal because I feel like we approach, we have one rule in our relationship.

What is it? Transparency. That's right. And I feel like talking about previous relationships is an important part of that. Yeah. Like, why shy away from it? You can't shy away from it to a certain extent because I would not have met you if it weren't for my other relationships, right?

Yeah. If it weren't for what I learned and like the, roller coaster not in like a bad roller coaster way just like in the roller coaster of relationships in life it brought me to you yeah and like you wouldn't have realized how good of a guy I am you know what I'm saying yeah I'm kidding uh but no if if our goal is to deeply know and deeply love the other yeah speaking about these relationships is important and that's not the main theme of this podcast so what we realize in talking about our exes is we were fortunate never to have some crazy dramatic you know throwing CDs or stuff out the window or like you know scratching people's trucks like

all the country songs talk about it's like we had we had amicable endings to I would say serious relationships that we were both pretty invested in at the time you know if you could hear what's going on in the back on right now. It is like... Sounds like a child's coming through the ceiling. I don't know what's happening. Wow. Okay.

Mimi is with them, so they're okay. I'm assuming. Yeah. I am curious, though, because... Let's back it up before I get to this question. Were you the breakup or the breakup E? Both. Both.

Really? I've experienced both sides of that, yeah. What about you? Both. Both. Okay. What are you saying like that? More so the breakup E.

You were broken up with? Yeah. That's okay. Maybe we'll talk about that. You're a lover. You're romantic. No, I'm more of a perfectionist. I'm like, I can fix it.

You know? Not everything needs fixing. But here's the thing. Not every relationship is meant to last forever. But how can you end it in a way that, that reflects your character and has high integrity and that rolls you into the next relationship with, I don't know, like you can walk away

not having some traumatic thing to point back to or some deep scars to have to refer to, you know? I think one of the hardest parts about ending relationships. And we can talk about like ending romantic relationships, where you're getting out of dating or endings that we've talked about before, which is like ending friendship relationships that have nothing to do with like romantic relationships, but just in the context of I don't think this relationship is bettering either side.

So how do you end that? Which we could have a whole side, but maybe we should have a follow up episode on. There are certain relationships that you can't walk away from, nor should you, like relationship with your parents. or your siblings. And we kind of try to unpack those complications in our book. We have this whole chapter on pruning. But it's always a fine line because you're like, well,

if you don't want to just totally walk away from our family, there are relationships that that doesn't apply to. But for romantic relationships, ending them well, I feel like is important. And today we're going to talk about maybe things that we've learned on how to end relationships with kindness and integrity. instead of leaving bitterness and burned bridges. And I'm excited. I don't think I've talked about or thought about this subject at length.

So let's do it together. Okay. I want to start with what breakup do you remember the most? Honestly, all of them. Okay, so we'll also try to pay respect to our previous relationships in this episode. So we won't name names. I was in a three-year relationship in high school. In high school?

Two-year, two-year relationship in high school, a one-and-a-half-year relationship in college, and then maybe like some eight-months, maybe like two eight-month relationships. Really? Yeah. Okay. I remember the-

I can't place the eight-month ones. You do the mental math. Okay. So go back to your relationship in high school. Yeah. How did that come to an end and why? Classic. I was one year older.

I went away to school and it needed to end. There were some other differences, like takes on religion that were important differences. and we had a blast together. I appreciated her and have a lot of good memories. But that ended with, yeah, it was like, hey, I can't. I'm in college, you're in high school, totally different worlds. I was playing football. Literally, my freshman year, when I think about that any time, it's like it was a black

whole of I don't even know what happened it was so crazy such a crazy transition of like struggling educationally struggling with sport living in a different city didn't know I had is like make all these new friends and it was just overwhelming and the tension and the stress of like also trying to talk to my girlfriend who was still in high school just felt uh it was like that's there's a different world, you know? So it felt more like a necessity than it was like a tug at the heart of, I might still have these feelings, but it's just, it doesn't make sense. Okay, let me, this is a good question.

It did feel like a necessity. I still had the feelings, you know what I'm saying? It's like, that's why I feel like it's always complicated anytime something means, hey, we, I thought we were going to marry it and we could have, but it doesn't make sense because X, Y, and Z. Or, you know, like two years of the long time, especially when you're 17 years old. It's like a significant percentage of your life.

Yeah. So it felt like a necessity. And then like when I honestly evaluated, okay, if I'm dating in college, it was like a step towards living like a serious life, like making decisions that were serious. And I realized the impact of, okay, if I'm dating to marry somebody,

which is my intention, we're not going to marry. That was just how it was. Okay, so going into the ending of that relationship, were you the breakup or a breakup-e? Yeah, I was a breakuper. And how did that go? And how did you go about that with?

Let's see. Integrity. We, this is going to, this is going to be dice. There's going to be some opinions on this. Oh, no. Did you text her? No, I did not text her. I had to do it over the phone.

I called her. I remember we're on the road at Arkansas, Friday night. We're about to go to team dinner. That's crazy. I haven't thought about this. That's not great. What? Breaking out with someone over the phones, maybe not great.

We did, I think it was like maybe two months after that, like on winter break. I, like, sat down and wanted to just kind of like have the in-person conversation. Yeah. Cordially. But, yeah, it wasn't like, it was unreasonable for me to be at home because I didn't have a car freshman year. Yeah. And we were on the road, so I did it over the phone. And I try to do it quick.

I think, I think just like, you know, when in business, you don't think a team member will last well. They say hire slowly, fire fast. I do think, like when there's an epiphany of this is not going to be the person I marry and dating, it's important to just like say it hurts so much more if you try to, it try to draw it out. I have that as well. So that's why I wanted to do it on the phone. hey my communication is going to be different and needs to be different. And then what was your style?

I mean, styles change and evolve over the years and you're still so young. But after you guys broke up, was it like called Turkey? Like not talking, not seeing each other. Hold on. This is fascinating because I'm going to try to see what was I thinking in that moment too. So when I had the conversation, like the way that conversation went was very much acknowledging, hey, you know, I appreciate you. And this is hard for me. But I've come to this realization that we can't do this. Were there tears on their side? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard.

It's like, yeah, you've developed feelings for this person. They say to know us to love. You come to know this person and then you like, you know, develop those deeper feelings. It wasn't like, oh my gosh, I got to listen to emo music and close myself in my room. It was like, It was just like, you know, the single manly teat. Oh my God. I think I was, I have not thought about this. This is so funny. I was remembering with Dexter Daniels, who's the linebacker.

And I remember he was like very kind, as I was still trying to get my, my bearings. But, um. You got a rough intro to freshman year. I got rat. I got wrecked stripped down. Left home. Yeah. But I don't even, okay, heartbreak.

I don't know. that even applies. It's like it's just maybe this goes back to the framing conversation, which I think we've had once. I kind of want to have another conversation that I've been thinking about in that regard. But it's like it didn't wreck my world. This relationship ending didn't specifically. Freshman year pretty much stripped me down.

Like I was wrecked. But I'm okay with that as opposed to. I also think it's part of the age. Like that age is hard. Yeah. yeah for several different reasons i would say but a couple things one we in that relationship i'm glad there weren't complicating factors as far as honestly like how we treated each other physically you know what i'm saying kept it pretty tight as far as that goes and clean i heard this advice

from a from a mentor he said you just got to live clean bro you just got to live clean and honestly i feel like that's pretty good advice it keeps things less complicated and it allows you to move through life making decisions that you should not that you feel compelled for I'm just thinking all is right now this is fascinating so that was one thing that I'm grateful for that there wasn't this feeling of I don't know this deeper feeling of attachment or connection does that make sense yeah I'm picking up what you're putting down and then and then in the conversation it's not you have to think about it you have to i would say prepare for the conversation don't ruminate on it

don't uh like wallow in it it's you think about it how can i respect the person in this hard conversation in this dTR defining their relationship conversation so that's what i try to do give them kudos and then say and and like we have to break up or i i can't do this or whatever and then your question about like how was a conversation after that or no like was it was there i would say there's not really i had the i had the in-person kind of deal yeah because i felt like that was necessary but then after that one last minute make-out sash no one final is that no okay now it's your turn back to school season has a way of exposing every messy corner of the house sticky counters, laundry, sports gear, and fingerprints on everything. Oh my gosh. Do you see during dinner last

night, bear with the mac and cheese hands just went over to the window? Just went straight to the window. My gosh. And before Branch Basics, we had a different bottle for every one of those jobs. Now we use one concentrate to make the cleaners we need for counters, bathrooms, laundry, dishes, and more. I love knowing exactly what's in it. Branch Basics uses simple plant and mineral-based ingredients is made safe, certified, and doesn't rely on synthetic fragrance or dyes. It works, but it also gives me peace of mind around with the kids and pets. It's surprisingly versatile, too. We've used it for produce, makeup brushes, and plenty of the random messes three kids can create. Yes, ready to simplify your cleaning routine. Go to branchbasics.com and use code eastfam for 15% off

the premium starter kit. That's branchbasics.com code eastfam for 15.com. percent off. Make the switch today because your family deserves a cleaner clean. I would say, I don't know if that's like my equivalent, but my first breakup situation was in high school. We probably dated for a year and a half, like a school year and a year and then a summer. I was a sophomore. he was a junior.

And I think we dated through his junior summer. And then I feel like very similar to you. This is going to sound ridiculous. I went off to the Olympics. Yeah. So it got really complicated as far as I was living such a different life. And we were so far removed. And I didn't have the ability to like call and text.

And I basically was gone for like a four-month stint as far as championships and trials and selection camp and Beijing and then like all these things. And to a certain extent, it was, our breakup was kind of almost unspoken, if that makes sense. Because it went from us spending so much time together to a certain extent like a goodbye. And it, I feel like back in that day, even the goodbye was almost known. Not that you asked for my opinion, but I disagree with that strategy. I agree. I don't think it's great. I don't think it was great either.

There's always this lingering awkwardness unless you have that final conversation of like, so what happened, you know? I agree. And we never had that, which is interesting. Wow. Would you like closure? No, I don't need. Give this guy a call.

I know exactly your time. I don't need pleasure. I hope he doesn't need closure. We had such a good time. It was very clean and not complicated. We really enjoyed spending time together. He was an awesome guy. I remember especially at the Olympics, him going into his senior year and getting ready to

finish high school and go off to college. he ended up, like, moving out of the country. And there were also, like, complexities of, yeah, it was just, we never had that, like, official breakup. Yeah. Which is so hard. And it's probably something I regret. Because it's not, it wasn't, like, a mature thing to do to just, like, probably assume

that since neither of us are speaking to each other and, like, all this that it's just done. but I don't think we really ever saw each other again ever. That feels very high school-esque, but I do think. Very high school-esque. If we're like sharing notes, it's probably helpful to just like, I guess it's a bit of courage to just say. Don't recommend that style of any at all. It is super uncomfortable and it's hard.

Like you have to work yourself up to at least me. It's like that's not a conversation I really want to have. Yeah. So then you're like trying to talk yourself out of it. You're like looking for excuses not to. make it happen, maybe sit them down, and then you get cold feet, you can't say the hard thing. And it's like, to me, it was always a step of maturity to say, okay, I'm at that time working to be a man. And this is having these hard conversations is a part of that.

Yeah. So I don't even know how I would classify that one if I was the breakup or the breakup E. I was probably more on the side of the breakuper as far as like sending text or even calls early on saying like I don't have the capacity. You said that. Probably in a very immature way. Yeah. Not a...

Like, hey, John, do you want to talk right now? No, I'm sorry, I can't. Yeah. And then not calling or texting again for like four weeks. And then it just slowly kind of dies. Yeah. Yeah. Which very immature way of going about that.

But I was 16. Not that I'm giving myself an excuse, but to, you know, emotional maturity. I'd say the other side, now go to the next one, was, I feel like both of the examples we gave, though mine was gray, it was black and the white in the sense of we never spoke again. Not that I encourage that, because I don't think you need to truly go separate ways.

I think you can probably have an ending to a relationship and find common ground later, maybe. I don't know that answer. Do you need to? No. I say my metric, the goal I have for that is if I see this person out at the grocery store or at whatever event, can I look them in the eye with honor and nobility saying we're both clear on this and respect each other. But we don't need to chop it up for an hour. I don't think that.

I probably don't think that's healthy because I feel like there's probably always there's always history. Right. Yeah. So it's still like a. foundation to build on. But both of ours seemed a little more black and white in the sense of like it was done. And maybe we never really overlapped again. You're saying both of ours. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if this correlated with like the seriousness of the relationship. You know what I'm saying? Like yeah with with what the one you're talking about in my scenario is like yeah, I thought

and I thought we were going to get married in some ways. But then study broad or whatever. And And yeah, it just, it was a clear line that needed to be, or a chapter that needed to be closed. By the way, I think I'm grateful for how we've navigated this. I didn't finish an earlier thought where anytime Sean would speak about her exes, it was not like, you know, she's not like lighting up or like batting her eyes. It was always just like a mature conversation of, no, this is how it was. And this would have taught me it was, I got no sense of, you did this with your other

male relationships that you had that were ongoing is like you made it very clear that I don't know in a lot of ways I had a special place in your life you know what I'm saying and that and that yeah you went through X Y and Z with whoever but that was like a you weren't still wrecked by it you weren't still enamored by them it was just like no that's what it was I think you have to I have always believed in, I think it's okay to appreciate your past relationships. I think that's healthy. I think it's probably less healthy unless there was, you know, a circumstance to just bury it, you know, like it's part of your past. You can erase it. Right. It's part of your story. But so every time like I, we, you and I spoke about it, same with you. It's like, this happened.

I really appreciated the time we spent, but it wasn't. my person. Yeah. Can I go on a soapbox real quick too? Because I got me thinking, well, another thing I'm thinking before now, like, we'll giggle about this and obviously it's in the past. But I also feel like, those dating relationships now just feel like so, the feelings were so small compared to this marriage. And I don't know if I'm slinging another hot take, but I feel like dating, yes, it is a responsibility. It is serious. Engagement, even more so, an elevated version of that.

But like, to me, there's a clear line of this is marriage, this is not. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, I feel that we can laugh about certain things. Oh, for sure. Well, yeah, it was, yeah. And I think we also have an understanding of like, we talk about friends who are dating. and maybe they'll go on three dates in a month and say,

oh, I really like that person because they're really funny. Or I really like that person because we had really great conversation. It's like, the relationships are different, right? Maybe that one previous girlfriend that you had or boyfriend you had was like the best time. You had the, you had like the most insane adventures. And I don't need to, I don't need to be that. I don't need to try to, I feel secure in our relationship, in the sense that like

I feel good about what our dynamic is, what you're expecting. Yeah, I know, but like as far as I don't feel compelled to be the funniest person in your life or I don't feel compelled to be the max of every category in everything. You know what I'm saying? It's like I am who I am.

To fit to agree with your soapbox, though, it's exactly what you said about the relationship you first spoke about. It's like you had a wonderful time. You at one point. thought, is this the person I'm going to marry? Yeah. But when you start having the real conversation in your head of, is this my wife?

It changes your perspective from just being impulsively. Is it a fun person? Is it, yes, this is the funniest person I've ever been around. But they're not my husband. Right. You know, like it's, we can giggle and we can appreciate all those moments we had with other people because it made me learn what it was. I was actually looking for in my person.

Yeah. Airports are hard enough without juggling coffee, a dying phone, and a laptop buried at the bottom of your bag. That's why Nobles all-in-one carry-on feels like luggage designed by someone who actually travels. It has a flip-out cup holder, a built-in charging port, and a front laptop pocket that makes the TSA line so much easier. The 360-degree wheels glide instead of dragging.

and the zipperless latch system gives you extra security without sacrificing the sleek minimalist look. And it does have a sleek look. It is nice. It's practical. It looks great. And every suitcase comes with a 100-day money-back guarantee, free three-day express shipping, and a lifetime warranty. Upgrade to luggage that looks better, lasts longer, and travels smarter. Head to noble travel.com for up to 46% off your entire order.

That's N-O-B-A-B-A. travel.com for up to 46% off. After you purchase, tell them a couple things sent you. Would you say the first relationship you talked about was your first heartbreak? Yeah, you said that word earlier and I just don't know if it applies. Like, what do you mean by heartbreak? I don't think it's like a dramatic thing to ask or like a meaning you cared enough that it was a hard ending. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean it in like a, was your heart broken because it wasn't hurt? It's like if you care enough for it to hurt, like as a parent now. I haven't even thought about this with our kids. That's, that's a measure worth noting because there was enough investment that it actually was a painful choice. But I also never had, to me, I was either dating a person. And like I wasn't flipping with that.

Yeah. It was probably going to be, I don't know, a multi-month ordeal. It wasn't like a, I never had a turning door of. You had a small window there. You had a small window of revolving door. Oh, yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah, revolving door.

But, but yeah, I didn't date you unless it did. me something, you know. But I feel like endings matter. Part of the reason endings matters is because I think some people can remember the endings more than the beginning. Yeah. And you don't want, I never wanted the ending to be so sour

that it poisoned the well, as they say. And I feel like if you're able to end well, it shows a certain amount of maturity, respect, and emotional integrity, you know. I will add to kind of what we are talking about, though, with endings. I think it's so important. to have a very black and white ending.

Yeah. You either are closing the door or the door is not closed. Yes. And there is research that shows that unresolved breakups in whatever way, like, oh, there's uncertainty or it's or it's not, you know, filtered through and digested by the individual can create lasting emotional baggage that then affect future relationships. So that's another important thing is like, I appreciate you and care about you enough.

Yeah. As a person breaking up. Yeah. That I don't want you to have some crazy baggage about this. I don't want you to have some uncertainty on what. No, you don't want to go on a date because you think there's still a chance. It's like, no, you want to be finite with it and respectful at the same time. Now, going on to both of you and I's next to longest relationship.

Okay. I feel like my, I was the. breakup e and it was a two year relationship probably i don't even remember anymore but it was a very great breakup of like i'm breaking up with you oh but i'm going to come to you next weekend but we're broken up but i still care about you that is so hard to yeah um mentally like stand. And I too, I, to a certain extent, I, I get it because kind of like we're talking about, you can deeply care for someone and have doubts or know that it's not your person, but yet you deeply care for someone, right? Yeah. And so it can be really hard to just be like,

I don't ever want to see or talk to you again because like that's not true. But it's also like, I still know I'm probably not going to marry you. So what do we do here? But it's best to literally just be like. Yeah. And that does take. a certain amount of maturity. That is honestly harder to find at younger age. I feel like that hot and cold is one of the pitfalls of breaking ups, breakups. Another one is like unresolved breakups, which I would say, or let's see, let me just

go through something. Ghosting, dragging it out. Ghosting is probably what I did in the first one, which is probably not a good thing. Ghosting, dragging it out. I would say jumping in and out is another one. No good. Over explaining. Yeah, anytime I've had to have the ending relationship,

whether that's been with like a business teammate or a interrelationship, it's like my recommendation would be meet at a location, probably public, make it short and sweet, start with saying the hard thing. You know? Like get that out of the way quickly. So they can not hear anything else you have to say? Well, so that you can set expectations and it's like, well, why are we meeting at this coffee shop?

Well, because we can't work together anymore. Yeah. Or because. Yeah. And then honestly, if I had to put a time to it, I would say doesn't need to be longer than like a 10 minute conversation. Breaking up from a like a long relationship? I'm saying, I mean, maybe there's like, like,

like Ted Lasso style? Yeah. Where he, no, it's a new girl. What? Do you remember a new girl where Nick? It's like the very first episode of New Girl where he goes to the bar and he runs into his old girlfriend. He's like, I need closure. And she's like, are we doing this now?

And she's like, yeah. And so she gives him an answer as to why she broke up with him. And he's like, great. And I'm short? It was like 30 seconds. Yeah, and it should be short because I feel like it should be thoughtful. and you should have your thoughts formulated. Yeah.

And also it should be, it shouldn't be reactive. Like we talk about this with our monthly checkups. Yeah. When you have it, hey, let's meet tomorrow at the coffee shop. Then there's like a, it's like a certain amount of psychological preparation that goes into it. Okay. So your second relationship.

Yeah. Your second long relationship. I don't know if you squeezed an eight month or in there. your second long relationship how did that breakup go because I feel like that one wasn't as clean and why? That was a little more complicated because

because you actually thought you were going to marry that one. Yeah. She couldn't understand why we were breaking up because you're that good and there was like false attribution as to why she was like creating these narratives as to like

oh well she was like trying to fill in the blank for me and it's like no because I realized that life with you was not like who I am you know what I'm saying she was incredible in a lot of different ways and she wanted to change the world in a lot of different ways and I like frankly didn't live life as seriously as her you know what I'm saying so I was like I can't see myself doing that so I was like why are we dragging this out And then there was like follow-up requests. Closure requests.

Yeah. And I didn't have anything else to say, which is why I feel like there shouldn't be that many follow-ups. It's like, no, because I told you the truth the first time. And it's, well, this, sorry, you got to tell an add-on story here by a dear mutual friend who was an absolute joker when it came to this? Oh, that was true. Yeah, that was really bad. In the football locker room, I would say this is highly disrespectful.

I still don't know how to reconcile this. I walked in there somber and sad because this was a hard thing for me to do. And someone was like, what's up? This was a good friend of mine. And I was like, I had to end things with so-and-so. And they're like, oh, no. They were like, let me see your phone. And then from my phone, they sent a text saying, I miss you,

which just complicated everything. because you're like JK, that was my friend or no, that wasn't, like that just, that was a bad, that was the worst part of the thing and I guess lesson learned as far as like,

well, a couple of different things. Locked. Anyway, that was, that was the most complicated ending I had had. Yeah. I don't even know how to like, it's just like a partially formulated thought, but hear me out.

If you have two parties that are not dating, to date. You know, they're just, they're dating to find a spouse. So they're intentional. Okay. Approaching relationships and dating in the same way they would approach a marriage, which is what you want, which is like, I'm going to fight for this.

There's nothing we can't overcome. There's nothing, whatever. It doesn't apply in dating. I don't think that applies in dating. Marriage is unique in that sense. Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

I was going to say to a certain extent, I respect what she did. because going through the valleys and the peaks of relationships, it can't all be butterflies and rainbows. And so if I'm meeting you on a rough patch of life, and I'm still in it and I'm still like, you know, I love you, I'm still here. I actually respect maybe in that breakup sense to say, I'm going to come back in a month and I'm going to be like, Like, you know what?

If it was a rough patch, like, I'm still here. I just want to say, like, I don't think. I see what you're saying. But, okay, so a couple of thoughts coming away. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how you play that there. And maybe that's even what I'm realizing in the ending of the relationship I talked about, where it was like gray.

Maybe you are fighting natural tendencies to have. out where you voiced out and hear me out you voiced out and say I don't think you're reverse right break up but then you're like what am I wrong the school year routine is officially back thank goodness which means breakfast lunches practices and about five different people asking for food at five different times that's why egg life egg white wraps stay in our fridge they're an easy way to make something fast without giving up protein Egg life wraps are made from egg whites instead of flour with at least 11 grams of protein and fewer than 3 grams of carbs per serving. They come in six flavors and work anywhere you would use bread or a tortilla.

You'll make breakfast wraps with eggs and cheese, lunch wraps with turkey and avocado, or turn leftovers into something the kids will actually eat. We love those breakfast wraps with egg and cheese. They're so good. They are simple, they're versatile, and perfect for weeks when the schedule changes by the hour. Find egg life wraps chilling in the fridge at all the Whole Foods, Kroger, Target, Walmart, and more. Visit egglifefoods.com to find a retailer near you. Was it a bad phase? Did we get in a bad argument?

Didn't we figure this out? I actually, maybe Gray sometimes isn't bad because you are literally trying to figure out. Your brother did this with his wife, where it was like, we're raking up and they broke up. No, but that was because they were sprinting towards marriage. And that's why I feel like engagement's a helpful period to like clarify the doubt. I never had a taking a break relationship ever in my life. I don't either. And I don't, I see what you're saying.

I think conflict resolution is obviously an important part of relationships. I'm so curious to get the comments on this too and get the feedback from this. Please DM us. But your opinion is like if one or the other party breaks up no matter what the relationship's done. Yeah. Actually, here's why. Here's why. And obviously there's counter arguments to this, but either if you're dating to marry,

the person who broke up, if they have uncertainty or whatever, they're not mature enough to date. You know what I'm saying? Or they're not mature enough to work towards marriage. So what if they come back around? And they're like, I actually want to date you. Immature. I would say it's immature.

But then you're counter arguing yourself that you can mature enough to be in marriage. So there needs to be conflict resolution. I agree. Our romantic relationship has led to maturation. But if one person is out on that in the dating phase, then I don't think it's... Do you think it's possible for that person who's immature in the dating phase to go by-bye for a while? Mature and come back with the same person. Are you saying within that relationship?

that relationship will just stay immature enough to where they can't work through it. I think, yeah, for sure there's stories where it's like, hey, we dated in high school and then we didn't talk for 10 years and I came back. We met each other again and like we had changed. But like I think when a relationship ends, yeah, it's like it's probably better left assuming that that chapter is closed. Interesting. I actually don't know which way I think on this.

Part of me agrees with that you're saying, but we also never experienced a, um, success story from that. So I don't think we have like data points to say that it works. But I get it. I don't know if I agree with it. We didn't start dating until you were ready to date. You know what I'm saying? That's why you ghosted me for nine months.

There was not this, yeah, I'll date you. It was not like a flip-in, yeah, I'll be your girlfriend. It was like a serious thing. And obviously, I mean, maybe the context helped here where Sean in the public eye I couldn't just date whoever casually without it, you know, making tabloids or whatever at that time. You're doing dancing with the stars and this whole thing. I also. Maybe that helped you be serious about who you chose to date.

No, that was also just my style. I was not a date-to-date person. So then my point is like if you were at the point where one person saying, I don't want to do this anymore, then I don't know. I'm willing to be wrong about this, but as we're discussing this, that's my current thoughts. I also feel like I'm changing a thought that we have talked about before. Again, we're not preaching wisdom here because we don't know, you know, how these words. We're just sharing stories. We're just sharing stories.

But I feel like I have said before that I think timing is BS, but I actually think I'm proving to myself that timing is really important. I think timing actually makes a big difference. Yeah, because going back to our first relationship, when it came to, like, capacity and lifestyle, it didn't work for me. It didn't work for you. It didn't work for either relationship. But that's also why it goes to do. It's like I had no capacity for a relationship in those nine months.

It's different in marriage. You have to prioritize capacity for a relationship. But going from bouncing on dancing on the stars to press to moving across the country to figuring out college to like figuring out what the next phase of my life looked like. I didn't know where relationship fit in yet. Coming out of a gray relationship where I was like, I don't know, is this door fully closed? And once it was fully closed, it was like, now what do I want my life to look like? Having the space to like heal from that and not be impulsive or reactionary.

You're sparking so many thoughts. It's one, just about how unique marriage is and how it should be, I mean, it's a big decision, you know, and it, it should be thoughtfully sought after. But then, two, like, just that idea of what do I want my life to look like? Yeah, that does apply as you're choosing who you're going to date. but then when you choose you're going to marry and you stand at the altar, that's a whole different mindset. It's not, I'm not sitting here today thinking what I want my life to look like.

It's like, this is my life. Back to our book, how can we make this the best life possible? It's not a constantly trying to tweak or change or like date someone or something else. Yeah. Okay, so let's just explore some principles for how to end the relationship. well.

I would say that these are just thoughts. Again, not wisdom. We haven't perfected this. Just some thoughts on, yeah, maybe how relationships that have ended well for us have ended. So I would say honesty is important.

Kindness, respect. Yeah. Yes. Being clear. Which all of this takes, not to rehash, but like it takes some

meditation to think about well why are we breaking up if i come to you say we're breaking up you say why you better have an answer because yeah and like hey because i i do love you in so many ways we have a different religion i cannot marry you and so it's better to end this now i well i was just going to say like i think it's healthiest for both parties to like you better rehearse something in your head and you better have a reason because when it comes to closure and when it comes to like people thinking back to it and trying you have to have something to stand on and if you don't have anything to stand on except for it just doesn't work you know you have to have like a yeah a concrete statement well said I would say be responsible to I would yeah and like things like the mode of communication matters. Don't just send a late night text that tends to not be as thoughtful. And then I would say having boundaries can help too. So like if the if you break up with someone and they say okay, then I don't think we should talk. Yeah. Yeah. Hey no, it's just yeah. I don't think that's wise. Yeah. And you know,

we talk about mentorship a lot. I think sitting down with a mentor if it's a serious relationship. and talking about this with them, someone who knows your situation well is good. I would also say not clapping back or having a vendetta against the person is good. Just like a general appreciation and understanding for what's going on. And obviously emotions can cloud that and like complicate it.

But if you keep respect as the priority and love, not in the mushy, sentimental way, but in the this person is highly valued. They're just not my wife. I think you'll set yourself up for not burning bridges, and I think that's important. And I am so glad, well, it shapes you. Like, I don't know.

I feel like every relationship has shaped me, every ending of relationship has shaped me and prepared me for how you and I have hard conversations. and how I can respect you. And it's like you're slowly, I don't know, building reps towards, I don't know, trying to do it better. So those are my thoughts.

I think endings to relationships, I don't want to say should be celebrated, right? But we should all embrace our past. I feel like there is this narrative that I think people should get rid of, which is like, forget about your past or how, I wish I never went through that.

Yes, there are some sort of, circumstances that we can always agree that we hope nobody ever has to go through. But don't try to erase your past altogether because it's actually beautiful for getting you to where you are. And when the calendar fills up, it gets really easy to miss a meal or end up grabbing something that doesn't actually keep you full. That's why I keep David protein bars in my backpack. Assuming you haven't eaten all of them first, Sean, they're quick, they're filling and genuinely taste like something you choose, not something you're forcing down for protein. The gold bars have 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar with a soft,

doughy texture and crunchy pieces. Chocolate chip cookie dough and fudge brownie are literally the best. I love the browns bars as well. They have a marshmallow-style center with a chocolate coating plus 20 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero sugar. The Smoors chocolate crunch is so good. Whether you're traveling, heading to the gym, or need something between school pickup and practice, David makes protein easy.

Go to Davidprotein.com slash EastFam. Buy four cartons and get a fifth carton free. That's Davidprotein.com forward slash EastFam. You can also find David at Target, Walmart, Kroger, Wegmans, and the vitamin shop. It's true. Though there were, there was heartache and hard times. in relationships that we both invested a lot of time and effort in that didn't work out, it brought us to each other.

Yeah. I think, yeah, I'm grateful that we chose people to date who understood that. I feel like the psychology of burning bridges is like when there's hostility or like you strip the goodwill away that did exist, obviously at some point in the relationship. and we talked about reframing things, and it's like you don't want the ending to reframe everything that happened in a relationship in a way that sours it, like we said.

And so just speaking to people's dignity, avoiding gossip and drama after the fact, too, is super important. Like how you deal with it with your group of friends and community is important. And then I think you're in a pretty good spot. So. I'm really excited to hear what you guys have to say about this one.

Please share your ending stories, your breakup stories, were you the breakup er or the breakup E. Do you agree with us or not? Yeah. This has been fun that shit you out about. Go down memory lane. I haven't heard a lot of people talk about this, so. Yeah.

Well done. I love you. I love you. And I'm grateful for all of the people who have gotten us to where we are. I still get a little jealous, you know, when you talk about it. she kissed you that's how we got thank you for listening

I'm Andrew I'm Michelle until next time