Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 37 Jana Kramer + Mike Caussin

Episode Date: September 30, 2020

Today in episode 37 of Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew, we chat with one of our favorite couple friends, Jana and Mike! They’re parents, authors, podcast hosts, and more. Jana and Mike just released a book called “The Good Fight,” so we go deep into what it means to fight and work through a relationship, to claim your baggage, and to support each other. We might even work through an issue of our own... If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Last but not least, learn more about Jana, Mike, and all they do at the links below. ––– “The Good Fight” – book ▶ https://janaandmike.com Follow @kramergirl on IG ▶ https://www.instagram.com/kramergirl/ Follow @whinedownpodcast on IG ▶ https://www.instagram.com/whinedownpodcast/ ––– We’re supported by the following companies we love! Make sure to check them out using our links below. Liquid IV! Get 25% off with code EASTFAM at checkout ▶ https://www.liquid-iv.com Glossier! Get Boy Brow + 10% off for new customers ▶ https://glossier.com/podcast/EASTFAM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things with Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. Today we have our favorite, Jana and Mike. Jana Kramer and Mike Cawson. This was an interesting episode, unique. Yes.

One, because Jan and Mike just launched a book called The Good Fight, where they write about all of their experiences, all of their arguments. And it is the full spectrum of arguments. It's everything. It's, they talk so, just so in depth about what it means to fight and to work through a relationship, which I think is a beautiful thing. It's also an interesting episode because us as couples and friends work through an argument that, in an issue that we've been needing to work through and we do it live on the podcast for you. Well, it's like a five-day old issue. It is, but it's something that we needed to air out.

And what better place than to do it here live to show you guys what it truly means to fight for not just your spouse, but your friendships as well. Yeah, it was interesting timing because this drama, I guess you could say, happened the day before their book release party at their house. And so when this all happened, I was literally looking at their book called The Good Fight right here. And I was thinking, all right, these are friends that we've had for years. We care about them. We're thankful for them. And they've been good friends. So what can we do to fight for this?

And it's worth doing exactly what they claim in the book, which is claiming your baggage, just fessing up to your mistakes and fighting for your friendship. So if you don't know about Jana and Mike, Jana is a country music artist. She's an actress and she does wonderful work. I love her music.

Mike, yes. Go ahead. Sorry. Mike is in NFL player, ex-NFL player and we kind of talk about our similar roles in supporting our wives and them being in the limelight and the challenges that come with that, the good things that come with that. So I really enjoyed this conversation. So did I. And you can find more about Jan and Mike and show notes down below. We'll also link their book called The Good Fight. It's worth reading. It's

200 pages. You'll get through it pretty quickly because it's really well written. So before we begin this conversation please if you haven't let us know what you think of the show by rating it whether you're listening on iTunes Spotify YouTube and also subscribing to it if you want to hear more we come out with weekly episodes and we hope you enjoy them enough to do that so it helps us out and we're thankful for that anyway that further ado let's jump into it with Jan and Mike Janet and Mike, welcome to the show. Congrats on the huge day. This is the release day for your new book called The Good Fight.

Congratulations. Thank you, and thank you guys so much for, you know, you guys have an amazing quote that you guys put on the back of our book, so thank you for that too. I was just about to say the worst words written on this book on the back cover with our names. I want to wish I'm Johnson injuries. No.

No. It's hilarious. No, seriously, that we really appreciate it. Yeah, I meant a lot. First question, I'm really curious about. Your whole entire relationship is in this book. I feel like you guys have put a lot of your life out there for the world to see and hear and judge and give feedback and love it or hate it. Now you put even more out there.

What's the initial feedback been like? Have you been nervous for today? Has it been good? I mean, so far, just the feedback we've gotten from people that have. gotten it, I mean, has been amazing. Even someone DM Jana saying, I'm already crying and I'm only at the dedication. And so we're like, you know, it's just little things like that, because that's what this whole book is about is relating to people, is allowing our audience and our readers not to feel alone in what they're doing. Yeah, and I think for us, too, it's like, it's definitely

hard to read comments and, you know, people say like, oh, our marriage is. a disaster or it's a mess but at the same time I'm almost like now that this book is out I'm like you can think whatever you want we put our heart and soul in this book so if you can't see the heart that we do have then I'm I have nothing else to say I have nothing else to defend like I know we're not perfect I know we have our issues but I there's nothing that I'm gonna that I don't feel like I have to defend anymore or be like no no get to know me because I'm like if you still don't like me from like the heart that I poured out and with my childhood and everything else I put in the book like I'm almost like, then fine.

Then you don't like me and I'm okay with that. Yeah. If someone doesn't like somebody for being open and vulnerable, then that's kind of, that's on that. Yeah, I mean, like that's a personal problem. So I've been crushing through it on Audible. Just I've had your voices in my head the whole morning. It's so great.

It's also weird, though, because we're pretty close friends. And for us to be sitting here having like a quasi-formal conversation. and then listen to you guys. But it's cool because as friends, you're in the moment with who you're with. So when we're with you guys, it's like we're experiencing things with you. But it's so cool to hear how you guys have taken so much time.

I think, what, a year and a half to write this book? To step back and think about how you've gotten to where you are. It's been amazingly powerful. So let me just jump to this paragraph. Oh, boy. I actually did not know this about you guys, but this is in the introduction. Mike says, Jana and I said,

I love you after 10 days of knowing each other. We moved in after three months, bought a house after four months, engaged after six and married at 11. Oh yeah, and expecting our first kid at the one year mark. So I did not know that you guys moved that quickly, but it does sound like a fairy tale.

Right? Yeah. It started off that way. Definitely seemed like it. I mean, we had a little bumps in the very beginning, but from that bump on, it was like, yeah, it was like, okay, I'll, all, you know, I'll steam ahead. Like, let's go. And, you know, where some of our conflict early on came with me being like, okay, like, I don't want to play house. Like, I'm 30 years old. I want to get married. I want to have kids. And, like, you're either on the ship or you're not. and I was 27 and when I moved down here and you know we bought this house together

I already I owned a house already in Baltimore so when we go 50-50 on the house that we bought here in Tennessee and I'm thinking I just moved my entire life to a different state like this is the first time I'm even living with another female let alone purchasing a house with somebody and so in my mind I'm like that's clearly enough to show you that I'm serious And then she's like, we're going to play house or we can get married. I was like, and I even told her, I even told her, I was like, I could wait. She's like, well, when do you want to wait? I was like, I can wait five years.

And she's like, five years. And she was 30 at the time. I'm like, not happening. Like, that's fine. Like, I'm just, this is just not right for me then. I love you. But no. Wow.

She's like, put a ring on it. If you like to put a ring on it. I'm really curious. The whole concept of fairy tale. The whole concept of the podcast, whenever we interview people, you guys know this from the first time that we talked on this podcast is, I feel like society puts unrealistic standards on relationships. They say if you don't do this and you don't do that, then it won't work.

If you don't date this long, if you get engaged too early, if you get married at a young age or married at an older age, like it just isn't going to work and you're going to end up separated, which I think is ridiculous because I think every person in every relationship does everything differently and they can make it work. So I'm curious this concept of fairy tale. Couldn't you argue that you are living a fairy tale? Because people paint these pictures of fairy tales as they don't argue.

Everything's perfect. Everything falls into place. But if someone truly seeks that, they're going to be miserable for the rest of their lives because it's not realistic. So I'm curious what you think like a true fairy tale is, if you believe in it. And then what would you teach Jason Jolie, your babies, about relationships and finding their person because should they seek out the actual fairy tale, you know? For sure. I mean, what I kind of said in the book is that I feel like we're the modern fairy tale.

So it's not perfect, but the modern fairy tale is you're going to have the shoes, you're going to have struggles. And it's okay. And you can get through it. And I think that's something that we're going to teach Jolie and Jace, just even how we parent. and how we are in relationship with them because, you know, we don't do it perfectly and it's about going back to them and apologizing

and saying, hey, we made a mistake and we shouldn't have been outed and we're really sorry. So I think it's just owning our own, how should I say, like owning our, the fact that we're not perfect and that we are human and have some humility in it and just, you know, say you're sorry. And I think that just shows them that that's healthy conflict resolution

as opposed to just hiding it and everything's perfect and people will number five. I think, Sean, great question, by the way, because it's a different question that we've been asked in a sense of like, yeah, so I know it's hard being in the middle of the day after we've done press stuff all day, but that's a really good one because no one's really talked about the, you know, how will we teach our kids around this stuff? And I like that idea because, you know, it's going to be hard. To be completely honest, it's going to be hard when Jason Jolie deal with heartache or deal with someone that. it's maybe hurt them or harm them in a relationship and they want to stay with them, right? Because from the outside looking in, until you're in that scenario yourself, everyone would say, oh, I'll leave if they did this. I'll leave if they did that. But then if you see your child going through something and seeing them hurt by somebody, it's going to be really interesting when that day comes, because it's inevitable, right, for our kids that they're going to get hurt at some

more emotionally, it's going to be interesting to see how Jan and I handle it because we've lived through what we've lived through. So obviously, we're going to preach forgiveness. We're going to, you know, but at the same time, we want our babies to be protected. So that's going to be, I've never thought about it, honestly. So I appreciate you asking that question. What do you guys view as good about fighting in oxymoron to some extent? I think it's good because it's, you know, we're fighting, we're fighting for each other. And I think, you know, a lot of times in our relationship, it's we've been fighting against each other and we've made the other person be out to be the enemy. But now it's like we're fighting for our relationship.

We're fighting to change and grow. And, you know, just like the other few weeks ago, it's like this isn't working for me. Like this, we have to figure out a different way to, you know, have conflict and do the work that we've preached in our book. And, you know, and these are some things that I feel as I'm growing, I need more of and just fighting, you know, to get to know each other again and to try to figure out how our power, how of our needs changed and what we need now as we're evolving and as we're growing and as we're learning new things about ourselves. So I think it's important to fight for each other and also, you know, just to fight in general for this relationship. in writing this book a lot of i mean everything you guys have talked about that has happened in your past you're like we've worked through it we've forgiven it we're moving on to an extent to an extent how was writing a book for the past year and a half opening up everything that

you've gone through reliving it refilling it trying to figure out a way to share it how did that your relationship? That was a back and forth thing. You know, that was tough because we had, we had days where we were able to have some humor about it where it's like, man, you know, we were such idiots in that moment. We can't believe, you know, we fought like that or that's how it went. But there were a lot of triggering moments.

There were a lot of memories that were hurtful that and wounds that we had to live through again and days where we had to stop writing and working together because it was too triggering for either of us or both of us it's but that that was part of the healing process too though that was part of what made this book the book because it forced us to lean into those things and talk about them and I had days personally where I know what short what chapter what topic would be working on and going into it in the back of my mind I'm like you know I know this stuff is going to come up and and I probably should have

a more proactive on maybe addressing some of it and being and acknowledging the triggers around it probably going into it. I mean, I feel like we did the best we could. Yeah. You know, if I could have done anything a little better, I think it would have been to not, we learned not to actually work in the same room because we had more arguments about how loud I type as a person. So.

That is a huge pet peeve of mine though, Mike, to your credit. And Andrew hates it. Dude, it's like, just can you do less? Andrew goes like this, like his fingers barely move. I'm like, oh, my God. Yeah, I guess I'm an aggressive text story. He's like, are you mad at your computer right now? I was like, no, I'm just, I really want to get this thought out.

And, you know, and I didn't like the way that he chewed his lunch. It was very loud. And so we, you know, that was the fun part of it, too, was just kind of figuring out to his work schedule and how we, how we deal with work. And, yeah, that's funny. So a couple of things came to mind as I've been working through this book is one of the defining books of Sean and I's marriage is the meaning of marriage by Tim Keller. And he talks about how your spouse is in such a unique position where their compliments and their criticisms cut or reward you way more deeply than someone on social media who doesn't know you, right? because if Sean says to me, hey, Andrew, you're not a very good listener.

She's around me 24-7 and I know that. And so it's like a, it's a tough thing to hear because I know that she is more aware of that part of me than anybody else. You guys talk about how a similar concept, the same concept, how fighting is kind of a derivative of like deeper knowing or deep understanding of your spouse. and, like, it's a necessary part of growing together. Is that, does that make it easy knowing that? Or how have you guys been able to work through still the frustrations of it? Yeah, I mean, as you said, Andrew, like, you know, typically you should know your spouse or your or your partner better than anybody else does. And so when you know so much about each other, it almost causes, again, if I can speak on my,

personal experience but it almost causes some more frustrations or or maybe instigate some more fights because there are certain things Jana might say something and I know her so well and I'm like I know that that was passive and even if I do my work and I say hey you know I'm reading you know I'm reading a little energy from you was what you said passive and she's like no it wasn't I have a hard time accepting her truth that it wasn't because I'm like in my head I'm like I know you so well I know typically when you say X is Y and you are passive and you have some feelings but I have to make the choice to trust her truth and that she said it wasn't and so to your points like because we know each other so well fights are instigated because we assume that there's more to it than maybe there really is and maybe Janet is just saying no there's nothing behind it like never deal but it's hard because we know each other so well I feel I feel like that's what Ander and I have been doing.

a lot of lately and we we've talked about it but the assuming part because you get to a point in your relationship like you said where you're like I know you I know when something's wrong but you have to sometimes realize that I know something is wrong with Andrew before he does and it's like the next day will come around or a week later and he's like yeah this was actually bothering me I'm like I know because you're answering and you had like the tone or whatever but we always like you assume things about each other and 99% of the time start an argument because I just knew there was something or I probably caused something. Jana has, her time is impeccable because I'll start to come around on something in my

head. I'll be like, you know, I'm starting to feel. And as soon as I'm starting to identify something that's going on with me, Jano asked me, are you okay? Is anything wrong? And I'm like, how gosh, you know? And I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to share, but I also want to do it on own time. So I'm good. And I'll either come out with it later, I'll just push it back down,

which isn't good. But it's like, to your point, Sean, she knows. And I just need to give into that. And then us girls get pissed because we're like, I know something is wrong. That's the thing. Like, you guys don't give us enough credit. Like, we remember everything. We know what we said. We know how y'all ask. We know when you answer differently. Like, it's just a woman thing. Like, we just no we're that good like god gave us so many amazing features and that was one of them and that's why i think we should have a woman president yes they would feel what's happening before it it even happens yeah yes um okay something that we haven't talked about before like even as friends and i'm really curious it's something that stayed with me since i was on your guys's podcast back in

LA. Wow. So, when it comes to your relationship, Mike, former NFL, Janna, singer, actress, and huge past that you have been very open with with your ex-boyfriend. Um, ex-hus husband. The abusive abusive. Oh, which one? Yes. Well, so you talk a lot about identity. Yeah. And I'm because Mike and I talked about this on your podcast the first time. Mike and Ike Mike and I like he loves Micah Nikes by the way it's one of his I freaking love Mike and I's anyway sorry we talked about the obsessive um identity that comes with elite athletics and we talked about how it's so easy to feel lost as a human being when you retire from athletics because every thought feeling an emotion

you had in your entire life was dedicated to football or for me gymnastics. But on the other side, Jana, I think the same thing goes with your profession with acting, with singing, and with your ex-boyfriend. I'm interested how has the identity of like trying to transition out of football, trying to move past your ex-boyfriend and the identity that he gave you, how has that either stuck with you or helped you grow closer as a couple, Is it something still lingering that you work through? Because I know with Ander and I, we talk through it all the time. An issue will come up and I'll be like, you know, this is baggage from gymnastics.

And I still act this way. I still feel insecure. I still feel whatever. I'm interested and intrigued if that's affected you guys. Good question. I think, so I did a lot of work around my. ex who was abusive um i mean gosh i was 20 when 21 when we uh broke up so i mean i've been and 36 i've done now i feel like my 20s were when i abused and and um i blamed a lot of

my relationships on him like and how i was like i was i played the victim and i you know i was gotten bad relationships and so I just and then it was 30 when I you know I did the work in the 20s but in the 30s was really when I was like okay I have to like shed that and I did a lot of EMDR work and I did just a ton of work on myself so when Mike and I have conflict now there are times though that and you know this is we can all be this way at times but there are times when Mike can be more verbally aggressive and can gaslight and I will then get triggered because of the gaslight and the manipulation that I felt from that relationship now does it derive how I then react no because it's more so like the the trauma that

this relationship has actually put more it's it's so hard like that I feel like almost like this trauma is even heavier than because it wasn't our relationship was so um it wasn't as long as this it wasn't as and yes he abused me it was awful and terrible but this you know this is this is the one i'm living in now and i feel like i've kind of buried that last one but there are emotions that do come up when i feel like i'm being gaslit or i feel like i'm being manipulated um or trapped yeah i'm very like that's i think now too like i'm because you know he was on top of me basically trying to kill me when I feel suffocated, when I feel like I'm pinned up against a wall, I will have an

anti-attack and I will fight for myself. Like I will fight him. I will fight like to stick up from myself. So yeah, that's definitely something that has come up in this relationship. Yeah, you know, that goes along with kind of what we talk about in the book with claiming your baggage and how, you know, your significant other and partner is responsible to an extent for helping you carry some of this baggage. And that's been something. thing where over the course of our relationship, I've been able to be more mature about and holding that space for Janet because of her past. And I remember when Janice first told me when we were getting, you know, when we were together and close and I moved down here

to Nashville, you know, she was telling me more about that story and that, you know, he was charged for attempted murder. And that seems so severe. And I was in my mind, I was a kind of questioning that. And I questioned Janet, but it's like... You can't believe you doubted. Like, you just believe me. He's not a new day, you hear. Yeah, my ex tried to murder me. So, you know, so I hear that.

And then we were cleaning out the house that, uh, Gianna was renting when I first moved down here before we moved into our first house together. And I remember finding, like, court documents. And it's saying, like, you know, Mike so-and-so charged with murder against, you know, defendant Janet Kramer or whatever. And it was just like from even at that moment, my, my, my, responsibility as her boyfriend even to hold some of that baggage for her and understand that she's going to have these traumatic triggers you know grew

immensely and it has continued to over time and even now I'm able to depersonalize some things because I know some some stuff goes even deeper than what I've done that stuff that's been there for a very long time and then turn in terms of my transition you know you said Sean we've talked a lot about this and it's what sucks about it and the biggest thing I wish I could do different is it's it's been incredibly unfair how much I took it out on Jana because I wasn't emotionally mature enough to handle that and I didn't know where to go for help with it and so I ran to the things that I've run to with my emotions my entire

life, which was, you know, sex or acting out in that way, and I would blame Jana. I would almost, I would literally make her feel bad for working her ass off or make her feel bad for having to travel on the road and do shows and concerts and, you know, doing all that she had to do, and I would just throw it in her face. Oh, it's always on Janice's timeline. We got to do what Jana wants to do because I just, my identity was gone. I went from being my own business, my own entity to someone. else's husband at no fault of Janice by the blessing of Jana for loving me and saying yes to when I asked her to marry me. So that's, I have, you know, disappointing memories about my old

transition. Every athlete, no one handles it. Great, right? It's tough and it's something that lingers with you. But I just, that's one thing I wish I could go back and do differently because Jana tried so hard to be supportive. She was extremely supportive. And I took that away from her by blaming her. Mike, we're in such similar positions where, I mean, if you take our careers independently, they're pretty good careers, right? They're incredible.

And I always thought that like, wow, I'm going to be the hot shot. But we have found ourselves in a supporting role for, you know, for the large part. And it is a continually humbling experience where it's like, all right, we have two dreams going parallel, like on a parallel timeline and we can only choose one, it probably makes more sense to go with Shant's, you know? And that's just, it's, I would not change it for the world because I know that I would probably be so prideful and arrogant and this has made me a better man, but it is hard.

So I respect how you've done it. I do have a question, though, in a parallel universe, same, you said six weeks into your relationship is when kind of you guys had a big argument where some things were revealed. I won't share that. It's in the book. If you guys want to learn more listening, you'll have to buy the book. But you had your kind of first large argument where Jana found some things out about

you. Would you rather, if you could, her not have found out about that? Or would you still choose to play things out like they have? Wow. Man, what a question? That first initial one? being an addict and now in recovery you know I can't say that if she never would have found out about that that first incidents you know six weeks into our into our relationship that I would have stopped I mean that would go against my belief of being an addict or knowing that I am one but you know to to alleviate the heartache that she felt that both of us felt because we were so connected so early. Would I want to live with that lie? No. But would I want to

alleviate the pain when she thought this was something different? Yes. So I, man, that's a tough question. But it would have made like if I didn't know, I feel like just like hearing that it, if you know, when your affairs came out, when we were married, it would, at least it, I under then stood, I understood the first time, because I never really understood it. Yeah, you talked about. So it made sense. For sure.

Knowing that, like, it was, it'd be like, you had never cheated on me and then it just happened in the marriage, other than like, what would happen? Like, I don't understand. Like, you know? Right. So it almost like makes sense of the addiction. No, definitely. It shows the pattern a little bit more.

Yeah. Yeah. Janice, six week into a relationship, why stick? around honestly a few reasons number one I've cheated before in past relationships and I didn't there's one person that hasn't forgiven me and it's always kind of sat with me and I would have loved forgiveness um and B I was like all right I'm 30 like I'm sick of dating a little bit clock's taken a little bit a little bit Yeah. I didn't have another prospect.

Jeez. Stop. So she settled for your boy. No, I'm just, I'm being silly. But at the same time, I'm not going to lie. Like those were things that did cross my mind. Like, okay, he's willing to change. You know, maybe this is his wake-up call.

And, you know, this could happen if I do dump him. And it can, any other guy can cheat on me. again you know but he's now willing to see the mistakes and so it's like that is definitely something that I you know that's actually amazing that's like a huge point because here's I have friends now who are 30s and they're dating and they're frustrated because they can't find like the the girl of their dreams right and in my mind now being married for four years and Sean and I know each other well enough to know each other's mistakes it's like whatever spectrum of ailments you have, whether it's loud typing or cheating, like there's so many

things that are wrong with people, right? And you're not going to find someone who doesn't have something wrong with them. So it's cool. And you say it in the book, like, it's a choice. You just make the choice. And that's the powerful thing about it. Well, and I said this to you guys the first time you were on our podcast. And I mean it. It's something I respect. so much about you in your relationship is you aren't afraid to show the world that it's okay to fight for a relationship. I feel like the entire world is filled with, especially right now, if it's not easy, people believe that, oh, it's just not supposed to be, like this just isn't supposed to be. And they leave. When you've learned within a relationship that it's hard.

like a relationship is hard and it's hard work and people make mistakes on whatever spectrum that is and we always will we're human beings and if you don't learn early to fight for that you'll never find someone you will never find a relationship that you're happy with yeah and it'll go on to what we always say it's um you know different cast same story yeah it'll be different person you're dating it'll be the same baggage you're same there's their baggage it's just there's going to be issues there's no perfect relationship. I like that analogy a lot. Don't know if it's appropriate.

I feel like it's worth saying. I feel like we are somewhat at a pivotal moment in our friendship because the relationships, you got to fight for all of them. Yes. And I felt like, first of all, I'm thankful you guys joined us on the show, but there was some drama that doesn't need to be said that I feel like was worked out recently. And it was like really, really,

the first tangible example that we've had in a while of hey we could so easily you know let this go on wash under the bridge and be cordial with jana and mike and be fine but we're going to go down to your book launch party and we're going to give you hugs and apologize in person and do what we can to fight so i hope that you know we are willing to fight for our friendship and we love you guys and so It was honestly, like, such a wild example of the title of this book, The Good Fight. I was like, wow, this is real. Well, we love you guys. And that's, you know, the thing with the book is like, we want people to fight for all types of relationships, you know.

And so if you're not married, like, there's so many lessons and tools that you can learn there, how to be a better friend, how to be a better, you know, sister and, you know, brother. Like, it's just. And, you know, I feel like, because. we're older and we have you know other friends and it's like there's no point in just having those to me and you just surface like relationships especially when you value them so much so it's just to be able to communicate and express what your feelings are and and then hey what have what have we done wrong like what can we do better at and you know I pretty much blew your surprise birthday from being you

know trying to do funny but get feelings more hurt and it's like you know and I freaking blew y'all thing and then art and then you You know, Sean and I are both like, I'm crying. I'm like, I get into talk to you right now. You know, and it's just like, and then I'm like, maybe they just don't like this anymore, babe. Like, now I was like so upset and I was in such deep like depression that day. I was like, I lost friends. Well, I will say, I, again, I tried to do, we connected on such a deep level the first time we met and just talked like about everything.

openly. And I am not a confrontational person. I try to shy away from confrontation. I try to be like, oh, it's all good. I'm sorry. Bye. I probably won't ever talk to you again because I ruined it and I made mistake. I'm just going to go hide under a rug. And I remember I made mistakes. I tried to over-exert myself and overextend myself. I made mistakes. And I had the thought texting you because I was trying to call you and I was trying to do that because I could keep myself better accountable. But I was texting Jana and I was like I could so easily just say things in a sly way or kind of give a little lie here to just make my situation seem better and to like earn your forgiveness faster and I was like no I need to own my crap and tell her what happened and ask for her forgiveness and see if I deserve

that friendship anymore and it ruined my day too I was like oh my god I was like, Andrew, I just lost our friends. I'm so sorry. So are we all good? We're all good. We're all good. Go ahead, Mike. No, go ahead.

Go ahead, Andrew. Well, one thing that's interesting, I don't... By the way, Andrew knew nothing of this. He didn't know about any of it. He's like, what's going on with Mike and Janet? I was like, I'm so sorry. I know that Sean is, it tends to act more when she's emotional than I do. And so I figured there was hurt work.

words shared. So anyway, I do think, Jana, you just said something that's interesting. And Sean falls prey to a similar mindset of, oh, I made a mistake. They don't like us anymore. So we're just going to like give them space where I feel like there's so many missed opportunities for, hey, maybe actually Jane and Mike still want to be friends. We just have to be the one reaching out and apologizing or reaching out and asking to hang out. You know what I'm saying? Like we're as opposed to assuming that they don't want to have anything to do with us asking right i don't know that was my thought no you're totally on and i think that's where you know women do so many more things better than men do so many more but i feel like just stereotypically an area where

we may succeed at andrew is this kind of confrontational issue that we don't have to say it's the end of the world and change our number and run away. Did Janet talk about changing your number? No. Okay. Yeah. Jana jokes about doing that in the past. But, you know, for me, when Jan was like, you know, expressed in a situation to me,

you know, I was like, look, people make mistakes. It's one of those situations that sometimes you don't know how to manage until you're in it and you just want to take the path of least resistance and just get through a situation when it may seem uncomfortable. But for me, it's like, we value all so much as people as our dear friends that I'm like, that part of what we talk about too in the book is just having the grace of forgiveness. It's like no friendship is going to be perfect. Someone's going to do something to piss the other off.

That's just, that's what close friendships involve because close friendships are like family, you know, and everyone knows that you bet you fight and. bicker with your family, it's just the family that you choose. So, you know, for me, I was just like, all right, situation that happened. Like you said, Andrew, that's, that's all it has to be done. And it's funny because Jana and a girlfriend of hers were talking about one of their friends, not talking crap, but just talking about scenario with one of their friends in a group chat. They're like, yeah, she didn't respond to what we said, but then she comes in and says something completely different. And, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm like, why didn't you all just call

it out? Like, why didn't you just say something? Right. Well, we shouldn't have to. I was like in a guy chat we'd be like hey dickhead i said somebody just respond to that first don't change the subject that's just how simple guys can be sometimes and how complicated women can be at times but all in all like we love y'all that ain't never going to change yeah you know what I mean so it's but we do appreciate how you all handled it and Sean it was my fault I know that ruined your party no it's true no because I had hurt feelings not being invited hey what what is uh what's chapter chapter Chapter 1, claim your baggage. So we definitely have some of that as well.

Can we please get together soon? Yes. Anyway, I just feel like that was worth saying because it's hard to find friends who are capable of understanding each other as such the level that we are able to just given the context and careers and whatever. So anyway, we're good.

We love you. And, yeah, I am thankful for you. We are thankful for you this TV that is sitting on your lap. It sounds like a TV. It looks massive. It looks huge. But I think your listeners and your viewers should pay attention to that, though,

because this book deals with just relationships in general, it doesn't have to be a romantic relationship. It can be things that you deal with like this, like confrontation with friends, like uncomfortable situations with friends that you need to deal with. and I have talked about that a lot though with friends and to anybody listening I'm sure you can think back to like friendships where there are a lot of times with certain friends that you have where all of a sudden you start believing in separate things or doing separate things that you don't agree with and everybody for some reason seems so afraid to talk about it that you're just like I'm just going to let that friend go instead of digging up dirt and actually confronting someone and working through it. I think there's a value that you do for your, like,

or something that you do within the relationship of your significant other that you fail to do with friends sometimes that I think is really important. That is so important. And I think that's where, you know, when Sean, when I texted you too, it's like, because of my personality, and you saw me their day, if I hurt someone's feelings, I just, I shell up, I take it so personal. I'm in a closet and I shut the door for weeks. And it's like, and that friendship goes.

goes away. And so that's how I was like, yeah. So when you said, I heard your feelings. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to go hide in the closet. I know. I was like, well, I'm just going to tell her because I love her. I'm going to expect my feelings. I'm not. I'm just going to close the door and I'm never going to like, we're never going to again. That's great. I love that. Which thank you for because I needed and I did not want to lose you guys as friends. And I deserve that and I own my crap and my baggage. And I own my goodness. Sorry. I love you. I'm sorry. I love you too. Sean.

Couples therapy. But friends therapy. Friend therapy. I don't know if you guys found this true, but there's a book I read 30 lessons on living where it talks about how anytime there's a conflict in a relationship that you want to mend, mend it as soon as you can. Because it is so true what Sean was saying,

we're like, say Sean and I get in an argument and I go and talk to my boys about, you know what she did this and they'll be like wow I can't believe she did that like you got to do this back and then you start it's like an echo chamber of oh yeah she's so wrong and then you start believing that and then it just widens the gap right and then you bring up a topic or an issue in an argument a week later a month later a year later and all of a sudden it's this huge monumental thing that could have been mended immediately or you don't talk to each like Sean didn't talk to Nostia for eight years because they had some dumb qualm that ended up being like, oh, yeah, wait, we actually don't care. So I was like, wow, we should just talk about that. You were the next nausea. Oh, my God. I wouldn't have allowed that. I'd be like, Andrew, what the hell is going on?

Why? You should have showed up at your doorstep. Oh, that's crazy. I didn't know that. You're nasty. What was it? So it was a lot, and it wasn't just one thing, but it was basically, we were best friends at the Olympics and then competed against each other.

And at 16, the, entire world said it has to be her or it has to be Sean or Nostia and we had bitterness from a competition that we didn't know how to separate from friendship and we didn't know how to just be like look I wish I would have won you know it doesn't feel great to get silver all the time but congratulations and she you know it was just that and we did it eight years later and we're like I'm sorry eight years I love you Yeah. All right, transitioning subjects.

Last question. I'm curious about. Jana, you're in the music business. You're in the acting business. It is called drama. I think theater is drama. I think they're parallel. Do you feel like that carries over

in your personal life at all? So I don't think so, but Mike does. So, like, when we have... I promise I didn't plate this question. Very interesting. So we have an argument and I'm crying. still no joke say, Jana, you're not acting right now. This isn't in a movie.

Okay, stop. And I'm like, these are my real feelings. And I get, like, that really hurts me. Because I'm like, this is actually my real feeling. And this is, I am a crier and this is me expressing it. And to him, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm acting out in a next lifetime movie. Like that's, and so, but no, I don't. The, the capability of being able to tap into your emotions in a,

deeper way than like i could or mike could i think is just it was something i was thinking about yeah i mean it is something where you know look i use our stuff more in my acting but i haven't used it when i needed to cry and then we when jana wins an oscar you know what my name better beyond that thing thank you husband but i mean it is but not i don't think in in our personal arguments because i you know i don't i don't michael's the one who puts the the the teardrops in his eyes no no no i made a joke about that one time in janice i'll never live it down never okay you guys are awesome i you're obviously our friends so we can talk forever and ever and i forget that you guys have a press day um three questions rapid

fire yes bring who was who wants to go first Um, me. I already have to be in behind my back. So now you'll go, um, you'll go back and forth. Biggest pet peeve with Mike. Oh, with Mike. Oh, I was, I thought, I wasn't good. When someone doesn't say thank you, when you let them in when you're driving.

Biggest pet peeve with Mike is his three hour lunches. Wow. I freaking love that. Guys got to eat, man. For three hours. Easy, an hour. I need a good, usually two minutes. Okay, Mike, biggest pet pee with Jana

When Jana goes to check her phone And be like, hey, what time is it? Or what do we have today? She'll pick up her phone And even though she was going to go to her calendar She goes to email Then she has some DMs on it Then she has to text someone

She has a couple texts She has to send her quick I'm like, I just want to know What the weather is outside I need two seconds of your time Just tell me that Then you can check all the other notifications Where's the phone?

It drives me insane That's hilarious Jana, what do you love the most about Mike? How amazing he is as a father. He's so great with the kids. Wow. And Mike, what do you love the most about Jana? This may sound cliche, but I really do.

I believe that I'm the best version of myself because of her, because of her ambition and what she instills in me. It just really motivates me to be better dad, better husband, better person. And so I love her ability to influence in that way. And then for both of you, what is the best piece of advice you have ever gotten or would give to anybody out there about a relationship? Mine I got from my mom and I haven't listened to it at times, but don't ever let anyone take your life. mine is something i heard in a meeting one time this guy's shared he said was the shit one sorry oh did i just like you see i i i know another i spoil another surprise if you have one foot

if you if you have one foot in tomorrow and one foot in yesterday you're in perfect position the shit on for that wow i like that a lot too wow yeah so being the present. Stay present. Wait, Janet, yours was don't let anyone take your life or lie? Light. Light. Life.

I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Don't let anybody kill you. That's the best advice. That's the best advice, mom. No, don't ever let anyone take your light because your light is what you tracks you to people and your energy and your guys. I've been trying to figure. I heard life too and I was like, hmm, that's very deep and dark.

I get it. I like it. No, light. Light is great. I've been trying to figure I've been sipping on a Corona or a tobo chico this one time. Guys, guys, guys, guys. I made the OG. It's a topo chico, but I made the OG because they don't have it as good anymore.

So you take a topochiko, you take a lemon honey ginger shot from whole foods, you pour it in there and then you squeeze a half a lime. It's almost exactly. Yeah. Okay, we're doing. I've been holding that on us. This is the repercussions of us being in the same fight. Okay, guys.

You are amazing. congratulations on the launch of your book The Good Fight. You guys can find the link in the description. Yes. Also they are having an event on October 5th, the Unwine virtual event, celebrating the book release. So definitely check this book out. It is worth the read.

And we'll know you love it. We'll know you love Jen and Mike. Jan and Mike, we love you. Thanks for getting a rest of time. We'll see you later. Love you. Love you. I love you guys. Bye. You know,