Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 83 Matt and Leslee Holliday

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

This week we chat with Leslee and Matt Holliday, former MLB all-star! We loved chatting with them about some things we can relate to, like building a relationship while pursuing professional sports, but also learned so much from them in other areas like finding your identity and creating a legacy. Here are a few topics that we cover: 0:00 introduction 3:26 Matt’s dream to play baseball 5:34 the story of how they met 9:09 balancing your marriage and your relationship with your coaches/team 11:35 the pivotal moments when your spouse has an athletic career 15:30 dealing with identity changes when you retire from your sport 21:37 Leslee’s journey with seminary 26:00 how seminary has reshaped their way of thinking 31:50 marriage in the limelight 37:32 what would be the legacy you’d want to leave? 43:05 Table 40 podcast 47:58 best piece of marriage advice You can follow Matt on Instagram here ▶ https://www.instagram.com/matthollidayosu/?hl=en You can follow Leslee on Instagram here ▶ https://www.instagram.com/lesleesmithholliday/?hl=en Check out their podcast here ▶ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sports-spectrums-table-forty/id1505637930 ANDD....WE ARE GOING ON TOUR!! Check out the link below to see if we are coming to a city near you in 2022! Click here to get your tickets now ▶ https://www.couplethingspod.com/ We are sponsored by SlingTV, which we love. Check it out below: ▶ slingTV.com/EASTFAM to get your first month for just 10 dollars! If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. Follow us on Instagram to keep the conversation going at https://www.instagram.com/couplething... And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Subscribe for more! http://bit.ly/3rnOdNo Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Twitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/ShawnJohnson Snapchat! ▶ @ShawneyJ Follow AndrewsTwitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/AndrewDEast Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Snapchat! ▶ @AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you go from something that you have such a passion about, that you love to practice, you love the all aspects of it, to all of a sudden, it's not there. It's, it, it, it is kind of an empty feeling. What's up? Welcome back to Couple Things. What's Sean and Andrew? A podcast all about couples. And the things. they go through. Today, we have Matt and Leslie Holiday. That's right. These two have been together for over 20 years. I mean, 15 of which was spent in major leagues. Professional baseball. Yeah, he's playing professional baseball for a very long time. Yes. Had a much longer career than I did in professional sports. You need, I love you. Anyways, we talk about a lot of really great topics

such as the roller coasters of their relationship and the pressures of being in the major leagues, being in the public eye, living in a city where they lived and breathed Cardinals, which is who he played for, and kind of navigating their marriage and their family through that. Yeah, it was good to get their perspective. And it's cool to see how their roles have shifted in a lot of ways, where Leslie now is pursuing a degree in seminary. And now she's the one who is doing the thing that needs supported. So we enjoyed our conversation with them. And if you want to find out more about Matt and Leslie, we will link their information down below, including a link to their podcast called Table 40, where they sit down and talk with some of their friends about faith and a bunch of other fun stuff. So thank you to Matt and Leslie for joining us this week.

And let's get to a comment of the week from our live episode that we did last week. Let's see here. On the birth story of Jet James. That's right. So this comment is from Jessica Starkey. She says, I love watching your content. you're both so real and relatable, congrats on bringing little man into the world.

She and her husband just hit two years trying to start their family. And this has been a tough season, but they're hopeful. So thank you for being so easy to listen, she says. We are thinking about you and sending the best thoughts and prayers your way.

Yeah. And we will be doing another live stream episode soon, so be sure you stay tuned. And subscribe to the channel if you haven't already on all the platforms and give it a rating while you're at it. Without further ado, we bring you Matt and Leslie Holiday.

I will say I'm a little disappointed that Matt decided to show up in the full Oklahoma State apparel here. Not that I have any beef, but you did, I just, I'm a Vandy guy and that's how it is. I feel like that's not even, that doesn't even matter. Well, I'm actually going straight from here to the practice field. We're actually in my office and we have practice, so I'm already dressed, but we're actually Vandy. My brother coached at Vandy for three years with Coach Quarral. Corbin. And the Corbin's are good friends of ours. We actually had them on our podcast. He and his wife are last episode. Yeah, I heard that. I was trying to figure out who was who was better at

pickleball. Was it you guys or them or I, if I'm his partner, it's them. Oh, she's not my partner. I'm a horrible. I don't know. I play a we play a little faster game. We don't have to get into that, but it's talking strategy, pickleball strategy. My strategy is better than his strategy. We don't play dink we don't play dink ball we play we're trying to hit people with the ball I gotcha yeah funny people I love them my first question is this Matt what is it what is it like to be good at the sport that you play I never had that uh experience it sounds like you did I know Sean you did as well but not me so well you know I think that it's pretty cool to get a chance to play professionally when my goal as a kid from as long as I can remember and my dad was a

baseball coach and my whole whenever since I was like second grade when the teacher said what do you want to do when you grow up is I put be a baseball player like that was kind of the job and career that I always wanted and to get a chance to do that was pretty cool. It was pretty kind of amazing the fact that when I look back now that I got a chance to play for 15 years and play in three world series and all the cool stuff that I got to be a part of. It was a lot of fun. And I think that the thing that we talk about a lot is the things you miss the most are just kind of the relationships and the team and the camaraderie that is hard to recreate outside of competitive sports. So it was a blast most of the time. I mean, there's obviously

struggles and highs and lows and ups and downs with performance and expectations and what comes along with being a major league baseball player, but in general, looking back on it, I can't, I mean, it's a pretty cool profession. I just learned something new, that plural of World Series is World Series is. I don't know that that's right. I thought that's how you said. Okay. Now that I think about it, it's probably not. Do you guys have edit? Look, I didn't go to college. So, in fair, To me, like, I'm not highly educated outside of baseball. You didn't write down, be grammatically correct. You wrote down, I want to be a baseball player, not.

Right, exactly. So I can teach the swing, but I'm not going to be in English. You just come in here roasting it. I honestly thought that's how you said it. I was just wrote it out and be like, oh, yeah, you didn't know that. All right, I want to hear the story of how you guys met though. So you played 20, sorry. Sorry, 15 years.

You guys were married 20, though. Five in the minor league. So total, I played 20 years total. So go ahead. You can tell this. Well, we met on a blind date. So we were supposed to go. There's always two versions.

No. I mean, she wanted to skip part of it. So we had mutual friends. A guy that I went to high school with was dating a girl that we went to high school with here in Stillwater, where Oklahoma State is. And she was in the same sorority as the girl. And so she was going to set us up because he was my good friend and she was her good friend. And they wanted to set us up on a blind date, double date, something. So we had made these plans.

And she blew me off like the first couple times we were supposed to go to a date party at some sorority date, which I'm glad we didn't go because that really wasn't my scene. And it was my scene. And so I was my element. She was like, I think she picked up on the fact that I might not be cool at a date party. Because I wasn't in college. Obviously, I was at home in the minor leagues. I was pretty straightforward, like training, like all about baseball only.

I wasn't going to a lot of fraternity parties or sorority parties. And so she blew me off a couple times. And finally, we saw each other one night after a football game at Oklahoma State. And she was like, oh, okay. Yeah, she thought I was decent looking. So she's like, I'll go on a date. with him. So we went on a blind date with our two mutual friends. And that night, we sat on her sorority porch at her sorority house and talked until three in the morning, four in the

morning. And then we pretty much dated from then on. And we dated for a year. We were engaged for a year. And then we got married at I was 20 and she was 21. Wow. And so it was, it was young. It was probably looking back, our parents probably weren't thrilled. And now that we We have a 17-year-old. It's like, whoa. We really were young. Yeah, because right now your 17-year-old would, in your guys' shoes, technically be meeting their current spouse, right?

Well, he's dating pretty seriously a girl, so he might have met a spouse. You heard it here first. And we're super affectionate towards one another. And then so now they're affectionate towards one another. We look at each other and we're like, golly, we're a batting. example like their PDA is like it's worded on like hey y'all need to but then Leslie and I'm like well I know where he gets it because I'm always I'm so it's I don't know we'll see that's probably another story but yeah so we were pretty young when we got married and and went through minor leagues

five years in the minor leagues together and then obviously in our major major league career and then we had kids at 23. I was 23 and she was 24. And then so here we are. We got a 17 year old as a senior in high school. That's crazy. So wait, what's different about your side of the story, Leslie? I just don't normally tell the blowing off part. Like I normally don't do that. But everything else was accurate. Like I saw him. It wasn't a real blind date at that point because I saw you and I was like, oh, actually I would love to go on a date with that handsome fella. So that'd be great. So that's kind of, but it was a lot of fun. And our friends didn't last very long and we are still, we're still together.

Matt, within your career, I feel like you talk about relationships a lot, how that's the thing that you miss the most. But within professional athletics, relationships are very, very different than marriage. And a lot of times balancing the two different, like kind of opposing sides can be really challenging. And especially going through college and then into the major leagues, how did you? guys kind of navigate separating the relationships that you have with your coaches in your professional career and your teammates to then going home and having your relationship with your way does that make sense yeah i mean she doesn't think the jockstrap funny like you know the locker room is very funny like you know guys in a locker room can get pretty harsh with one

another like where we like you say some things i think during your career at home that you're used to saying in the locker room where you're like that probably wasn't a funny joke joke to her. Like, you know, just stuff where it goes over really well with the guys in the locker room and not so good with your wife. But, you know, I think the good thing, at least for baseball is, is we had a lot of teammates that were kind of in similar stages in our life as we are as far as young guys that were married. And so we did a lot of stuff away from the field together with other couples and then other families. And so I think it was it was a great time for us to make friends, like some of our greatest friends where people we played with

and families that you get to know. So I think as far as like me being at the field and kind of the intensity that goes into playing Major League Baseball and kind of leaving it there and not taking it home and taking out your frustration on your relationship or your wife or your girlfriend, I think that is something you learn because I think as a younger, immature guy, you can be very moody, especially at home after a bad game or a bad week or whatever. But I think you learn, I think you learn to kind of grow up a little bit and how to leave things at the field. And I think having kids did that for me, some too, that, you know, the conditional, there wasn't conditional love based on how I was doing or how many hits I got that game, that when you come home, your kids really don't care. They're just excited to see you.

And same thing with Leslie. Like, she did a great job of not really basing how she felt about me, thankfully. with how I was doing at baseball. So it was a learned process, but I think one that we got pretty good at as the years went on. Leslie, I'm curious to get your perspective. So I had the opportunity to not while she was competing in gymnastics, but she's done plenty of kind of exhibitions in her sport.

And then she was along the ride, along by my side for the ride of my NFL career. And it is such a unique time because, like, You know, there's so many different aspects of professional sports that make it different from any other career, like the publication, the emotions, like this, you know, deep longing or like childhood dream that most people have to get to that part. But I'm curious from your side, what were some of the kind of pivotal outstanding moments that stick out in your mind, whether it's Matt getting cut or Matt signing or Matt having this experience or you guys doing this together or, you know, traveling to this city together? I'm curious what maybe two or three of those would be off the top of your head. Yeah, there were several that stand out as you're talking about it. It was a lot of fun, just like you said, like knowing all the work that Matt put in prior to a season starting, you know,

and then in the minor leagues when we were dating or when we were engaged and early married, just to see how dedicated he was as an athlete, just from even what he ate to how many hours he slept. and you know in the training and it was just really I really admired that about him early in our our relationship I really thought that was cool to see how dedicated he was towards his dream and towards his sport so I would say one of the things that was really memorable to me was the day got called up to play in the major leagues like I still remember that day like I failed on the phone call like I was watching which is a worthy story yeah I was watching the bath barret or bachelor I called her I'm like like this is the greatest moment of my professional

professional career like i'm getting called to the major leagues like i'm going to the major leagues like this is this is incredible like i get the call like my roommate and i are jumping on the beds literally like and i'm like i call her no answer call her no answer i'm like what's going on like i'm starting to get worried about her and and i'm like so i'm like well i called my parents i'm like hey i'm made the major leagues everybody's excited blah blah blah she calls me back and she's like what do you want i'm watching that but outside of that like i did i messed that up that didn't go as planned but i remember picking him up from the airport in denver and riding with him and my parents bought him his first suit and all of this stuff and so i remember picking him up at the airport and just turning

the corner and seeing course field because that was where he he got it was just such a neat thing to be in the car with matt and you're turning the corner you see the stadium and taking him to that game that was really, really neat. And it was really neat to see his name on the board and all of that. So it was just so cool to see that he had achieved that goal. And then, you know, as a spouse, you see all the, all the ugly stuff that goes into that day. And so for me, that was a big deal. The other thing that comes to mind is going to the World Series with the Rockies.

That was really cool. The whole journey was really, really neat, you know. I mean, because we're with our friends, like Matt said earlier, you know, they drafted Matt the Rocky. drafted Matt. And so they're all of our buddies. So you're in the big leagues with all your friends. And so that was super exciting. Getting traded to St. Louis was great. Love that. Win the World Series in St. Louis. I mean, there's tons of them. And, you know, I was pretty locked in. I mean, Matt's my best buddy. And so it was just really fun to be a part of the journey and cheer for him. But really, I would say the main thing for me, looking back on Matt's

career is I just really respected the work ethic just I mean it was so impressive to me you know and that was probably and probably still is my favorite quality that he had like anything he does he he goes all in and I love that about him I wonder are you got it sorry I was to say we want to jump into your seminary but I have one more question Matt something Andrew and I talk about a lot within our professional careers in athletics is just kind of the identity that comes with professional You take on every part of it, and it's just an all-consuming career. I think a lot of that has to do with it just being your passion as a kid. And for us, one of the hardest transitions within our marriage,

and then also just within our careers was retiring, was finally choosing to step away from your sport and your passion. I haven't retired officially. Okay. I have not officially retired. Waiting on that. Don't put that on me. But I remember that just being a really hard time,

just with, not within our marriage, but seeing each other go through identity changes. Was that something that you guys had to deal with in kind of finding that transition in that time? And how did you get through that? Yeah, I mean, I think that that's probably this, it's kind of a uncomfortable feeling. I guess you guys could probably comprehend this. But like when you talk about having purpose, like you woke up every day with like this plan that was all aiming towards this season. of, you know, like, you worked out for a reason, you ate for a reason. Like, it was all kind of your schedule was all kind of printed out, planned out. And then all of a sudden,

like, there's really not there. And I think that that is something that athletes, it's a, it's a big challenge. And a lot of the guys that I talk to in baseball, and I'm sure the athletes that you guys talk to, it is a big transition going from something you've done literally since you were a child all the way until, you know, for me, almost 40 years old, 38, 39 years old. and then all of a sudden it stops abruptly and now all of a sudden it's like well I have all this time like I never had a lot of hobbies because my hobby was getting ready for the next season so I didn't I didn't really play golf I didn't really fish I didn't really a lot of the things that people are excited about in retirement I never really did and so while Leslie and I you know we have a great relationship and but there's a lot of hours in the day to try to figure out like where am I going to get my worth where am I going to going to, you know, as a man, like, I need to work. Like, I need to do something. Like, hanging out is not going to work for the rest of this deal. So that was a big transition for us, like trying to figure out. And then we lived in Florida at the time. And then ultimately,

we moved to Oklahoma and now I'm coaching baseball here. And so there has been some, some kind of big transitions since I've quit playing. But I do think, like you talked about, it's kind of a transition period where, you know, there can be some strife, some family. Like, you're trying to make, I'm trying to make the best decision for my wife and four kids. Like, where do we live? How is this going to go down? Like, what's the next plan? And so it was challenging. But I think, you know, just like I said, trying to figure out what was next. And and I think we've done a good job. And I've heard, you know, I think in general, we've handled it pretty well, but it is difficult. And I think that the one thing is trying to make sure we're

about what's next for us and and trying to serve others. And I think we found a nice niche here with doing Bible studies. And we have college players that we've kind of invited into our lives and try to help them in their transition. So we've kind of found a cool rhythm with what we're doing. But it is very challenging. And as you guys know, it's hard to kind of think about what's next. And when you go from something that you have such a passion about, that you love, to practice, you love all aspects of it, to all of a sudden, it's not there. It is kind of an empty feeling. Yeah. And I would say, too, like what made it even more challenging, too, is your friends are not there any longer. And so for us, it was like, man, some of our greatest friends

were right there with us in the sport. And so, and then when that part is removed, that we made it a little bit more difficult. Yeah, we had to find, like, new friends, like try to find people that to do life with that were kind of like us or you know that you had similar you know things going on in your life so that was a challenge as well so that i mean it's multifaceted for sure so it was tough what do y'all you all have any advice i mean how's well he's not retired oh that's right well i will say though it's it's a very isolating thing because there aren't many I feel like the average person who has a job isn't it's not all consuming and that affects your marriage that affects your family and your children and when we jumped around different

teams even it was it's like you start over all your friends are now no longer in the same state as you it's hard to relate to other families because they have a nine to five job and they're just like what do you mean you lived in Oakland yesterday in st. Louis today it's just it's a different lifestyle and it's hard to find that that group of people to communicate and relate to. Yeah. I feel real fortunate. At the time, I didn't feel fortunate or I didn't feel this way, but I thought I was going to be with the Kansas City Chiefs for 15 years and just be locked down there. But I got cut after three months and then I was at home trying to figure out what to do with my life and ultimately it led us to what we're doing now. And so I was making the transition

while I was still bouncing between teams, which made it like as soon as I stopped getting calls, I'm not finally retired. So there's still, there's still another one coming. But like, as soon as I stopped getting calls, it was like, okay, well, sweet. We already have, like, the transition's been made. But I feel like what you were describing, Leslie, with what you were watching Matt go through and all the discipline, probably there's a lot of parallels to you in seminary. How long you've been in seminary? Well, it's kind of a long journey.

I went to school here at Oklahoma State, and I was a nutritional science major. And then we get married. And, of course, you don't, I guess I did sort of use it, cooking and stuff. Anyway, neither came or there. In 2015, I led Bible studies all through Matt's career, like the different teams that he was on. I somehow found my way as a leader everywhere we went. And then in 2015, I had a really eye-opening conversation with one of the wives. Her and her husband were getting divorced.

And I didn't even know about it. She would come to Bible study every week and any prayer request or whatever, not a word. And then all of a sudden, you get this bomb dropped on you that, hey, by the way, I'm getting, I'm getting divorced. And I'm like, okay, well, maybe we should go to dinner and talk about this. So we went to dinner and short version of a long story. It was a terrible divorce. Like it was a terrible relationship.

And she was going through a lot of heartache and a lot of silent pain. And I got home from that dinner. and I told my babysitter, her name's Hannah, she actually lives in Nashville. And I came home and told her, I said, hey, I think I need to go back to school. And I need to learn about how ministry actually works because I want to redo pro-athlet ministry. And this was in 2015 because it broke my heart that as a woman that was married to a very prominent baseball player, she's going through all this pain silently because she doesn't want to cause any problems for him. and it killed me. And so in 2015, I went to Ozark Christian College and got an undergrad and biblical

studies and I enjoyed the heck out of it. And I did get an opportunity to help remodel professional ministry for women. So like football, hockey, baseball, I had a chance to kind of restructure the whole thing, which was great. And then I loved it so much. I decided to go to seminary in Dallas. So I go to Dallas theological seminary now. And I should graduate in about two years. But it's a long, a long journey, but I just felt called to do that. I felt called to school because in our story, like, it was difficult to be a member of a church. It was difficult to, you know, be, I guess, a disciple by someone in St. Louis because all they saw was math and that it became this challenge to where I would sit with someone. And even if I had some like heresy, like thought, like a heretic,

like the idea, they'd be like, yeah, that sounds great. So Matt's. 300 and I'm like you know it became this thing and I'm not trying to be you know I mean that's just the reality that we lived in at that time and so I felt like school was this neutral place where I could go and learn and be wrong about stuff or be curious about things and really really really learn what I didn't know about my faith and um those are really that was a really cool journey and I'm loving I'm loving seminary I mean it's challenging but it's it's great I love it so you you guys know mike and kerry and the palmers and um maybe i feel like they've been touched by a lot of your work so uh for what it's worth we could talk about that afterwards but

anyway i'm um i'm curious has your experience seminary reshaped how you think about marriage in any way or like how you relate to matt in any way and how you guys carry on your relationship Yeah, I think, I think for me, like understanding grace in a, in a more, like, we all know grace, right? Like, that's like Sunday School 101, like God's gracious and, you know, amazing grace. How sweet the sound, right? But I think, like, really understanding grace and the way that I've been able to understand it going through school and the length that Jesus went to rescue us. And then the grace that's applied to our life, that has really transformed. the way I look at everybody and most definitely Matt like I think I just I I don't know and

also the other thing that has transformed my life and my marriage is just like scripture talks about like hey you're wise if you number your days and and for me that really touched my heart and just understanding like God life is so short and so as long as God gives me breath I really want to honor the Lord and in my husband in this relationship that God's given me. So I would say those are the two main things. It's just understanding how fast this thing goes and the opportunity every day to be gracious towards the ones that I love that God's given me as a gift. Right. So those are those are probably the two things for me that. And I would say he'd probably notice the same thing. I'm a lot more gentle than I used to be. Like I used to be a little harsh. And,

maybe because I was so tired with the kids when they're little. It's just so tired. So maybe that's what it was. I'm not saying. It's a little like, a little harsh because I think the Lord's soft of my heart a whole lot. That or sleeping. That's been helpful.

I think I think we're in the harsh face. I have, we have a two-year-old and a seven-week-old, eight-week-old. You are. Those are tough days. You got any tips for us when it comes to the parenting side of things? I don't know. I guess time will tell if we did a good job.

They're all very different. They're all very different. Parents and them each differently. They're different. They respond differently. I mean, at that age, it's probably a little bit cut and drive with the two of them. But as they get older, it's just crazy how much different they are and how they respond to different discipline or just how you talk to them. it's been it's been eye-opening to see the four different personalities and how they respond to different things and it's it's challenging but it's awesome at the same time I think it's like they talk about like the days are long but the years are short it really is like now at jackson's 17 it doesn't seem like it's possible and so even our youngest now is eight and you know you

feel like he's still a baby and he's already eight so it's it goes really fast when you look back i know right now probably working on two or three hours sleep it doesn't go very fast but um it does go fast and they are very very different to be my dude one of your little kids someone posted a picture of him flexing that dude was ripped that was a while back but get it he's ripped yeah the little guy's ripped uh they they like to work out the two older ones are getting into it. The little guy just doesn't eat, so he's just kind of skinny good. He doesn't eat much, so it's, but he's built, he's built pretty lean. We'll see, we'll see how the rest of it. He's, he's interesting. It's really funny. But yeah,

it's fun. The two older ones are big into baseball, and so it's, it's cool to get to, to help them kind of chase their dreams. And they love to practice, which I think is the most important. important thing is I tell them all the time. I'll throw it to them all day, but it can't be my idea. And so they like to practice, which, you know, for me is pretty awesome. I really like how you just said that. You guys seem to have like great foundational roots in like ministry and just faith and within your marriage and kind of starting in college and going through the roller coasters of the major leagues and even you referencing sitting down with people in St. Louis. It's just the notoriety is, is there. I feel like we live.

live in a time though where any kind of notoriety is the world likes to say it's just terrible with relationships that relationships are doomed to fail from the beginning if there's notoriety kind of around them you see it in all of the tabloids nothing succeeds anymore how do you guys feel like you made it through 20 years or 15 years of massive limelight and fame and attention on your marriage and each other and what seems to be a beautiful and strong marriage now. I would say what I did, Sean, to protect my heart was I did zero social media. And I know that like it was different then because, because of, I mean, it just wasn't what it is now. And so, but I did zero social, like zero social media. And so I, I mean, Facebook was kind of a bigger deal

then than it was not, it got off of that. I don't have Twitter. I think I may have tried that for a couple of weeks and I was like, I don't like it. So I still don't have Twitter. And then Instagram, we didn't really start that until after he started, stopped playing. And so for me, that was a boundary that I had to. I think the most important thing we did was keep our circle tight. Yeah, we did that for sure. Like, we kept our circle tight. Like, I didn't read newspapers.

And I think to me, I tried to keep it real simple. I go to the field. I love this. Try to keep the passion of what the process I really love and the team and the, and trying to win, and then go home and be a good dad and a good husband and and keep everything else kind of, I don't know. I just think that sometimes we want to hear and listen and there's too many voices and there's too many. We just try to keep it super simple. Like, didn't think too much of it. Like, this is just a cool job. I don't think that I'm awesome because I can hit a

ball really far. Like, it's just really not, I don't know, I just really wanted to kind of just, this is what I like to do. I like to play baseball and my wife. I love her and my kids. And yeah, there's some cool stuff that comes along with being a major league baseball player. I mean, it's, it's neat to be a St. Louis Cardinal, like the people in St. Louis love the Cardinals and all those things are really cool and a blessing. But I think the key to athletes having is try to keep your circle small and remember kind of like where you came from and who you really are and that you're not this sort of public figure that people think you are and and I think that that's important. I think sometimes people get caught up reading their own headlines and

really riding the highs and lows of what other people think of them, which in pro sports is if your self-esteem is based on how you did the night before, like it's a terribly draining mental kind of nightmare, you know, and you can find what you want to find, you know, if you look hard enough on social media. Well, and I think, too, another practical thing that that we applied to our marriage pretty early was Matt had roommates on the road. And so, and then another kind of rule we had was, like, I'm never going to, like, if Matt's on a road trip for 10 days and the girls want to all get together, like, I'll go at dinner

with you and stuff, but I'm going to go home. Like, I'm not going to go to a bar. not going to do this. I mean, you're my husband. If you're with me, then we'll go, we'll go do some of this stuff. But if I'm on my own, like, I'm going to respect Matt when he's far away. And then Matt and Adam Wainwright were roommates. And so because both of them had a similar, you know, they both like Jenny and I. And they were like, hey, we want to, we wanted us hold each other accountable here. And so Adam and Matt, like, had connecting rooms where they went. And, and they were roommates. And so they were able to hold one another

accountable on the road. And it is hard. I mean, I've done enough marriage counseling in my day to understand the challenges of pro sports. And I think the logistic challenges are really overwhelming at times, especially with baseball, because as much as they travel. And I appreciated that. And Jenny appreciated that, that we were married to two men that were really trying to honor their wives. And it was fun. I mean, y'all had fun. They loved it. And then when Adam got hurt Mark Reynolds was your he wanted to be your roommate and so it's kind of cool like

I had a waiting list yeah he had a waiting list everybody wanted to be his roommate he's a great roommate but I think those were some practical things we did like we we kind of saw things over the course of Matt's career of kind of danger or pits or whatever you want to call it where we would see in other

couples whether it was like this all consuming social media thing you know and then I was like oh well I just won't have it like I want to what I value with the thing we have right now it was so good like when we were young I wanted to preserve that and so and it's personal for everybody but that's kind of what we did and those are the practical things we did is like because it would crush me like the social the social media stuff would crush me if I saw you know you know whatever um some cute little gal

oh my god I've had I'm like pregnant I'm just a feel grow you know and all this stuff And then I'd go down this rabbit hole and like, she looked great and all, you know, whatever. So it became this thing where I was like, I'm just not going to do that. And so I didn't, you know, and then, anyway, so we did a lot of practical, practical strategies over the course of his career to help preserve what we valued. And, you know, so I don't know if that really answers your question, but. I think that's real good. I am curious, we talk all the time about kind of the mission a couple has together. And it's interesting, I feel like we've talked to people who say, hey, we want to buy a plot of land or we want to buy this car.

And that's what we're shooting for. And that's what all this work is for. And then others who have this massive vision that maybe is, you know, too ambitious in some ways. But I'm curious what you view as your mission beyond baseball, coaching, beyond seminary. what do you guys you know what would be the legacy that you would be happy leaving oh good question well we we have a thing that we helped develop in st louis called homers for health and it's for cardinal glennon children's hospital and we were we came up with the found that we were part of a group that created this and it's done really well i think we're celebrating 10 years this year

And so for 10 years, through this Homers for Health Foundation, where Cardinal fans donate a certain amount of money every year for every home run, the Cardinals hit for Children's Hospital. I think we've raised over $7 million for the hospital. And it's been a cool program, and we've passed it along to, we didn't ever want it to be about us. So we've tried to make this Homers for Health is a Cardinals thing. And so we've passed it along to people after we didn't play in St. Louis anymore.

And so it's this thing that hopefully it's self-sustaining that continues on to really benefit the hospital. And so that's been really fulfilling for us as far as this program and lives that it's changed for sick and injured kids and families that are going through like kind of the biggest nightmare you could ever imagine in having sick and injured kids and the time that they spend and the money that they've spent on the places for kids and families to stay and to make their. part time and life a little bit better. So that's been really cool. And we get the chance to go up there every year and we celebrate the people that give $7 or more per home run with a dinner. And so we're still very much involved with that program. And so that's been really cool. I think that it's something that's bigger than us, that we can hopefully keep it going. And I think for Leslie and I, at least for me, to live a life with meaning and purpose and that has, you know, impact, I think, I think eternally, whether it's on young college kids who don't know the Lord, that you get a

chance to be around every day and help them to understand, you know, things in life and help them reach their dreams with whether it's baseball or whatever they're doing. And I think just being present, I think really just trying to live a life with where your kids, we have four kids and trying to, I don't know, I guess just have eternal value where you're doing things that help people and are less about us and more about being a servant. And I think that that's something that's fulfilling, at least for me. Yeah, that's a good answer. Yeah, I would just say like to echo everything, he said that was awesome. I would just say for us is like when I think of a legacy or being remembered, Barnabas is like my favorite guy in the New Testament. And he was like,

his nickname was son of encouragement. And that's the legacy I would like to leave. Is I would like, I would like to be remembered as someone that encouraged you along your journey and not be super judgmental about where you start, but just like get in there and encourage the journey. And, of course, I would love to encourage their journey towards becoming more like Christ and knowing Jesus. But I don't know. I agree with everything you said, but I love to, I'm a professional encourager.

So I love to encourage people. I, that's, I love that mission. I've been thinking a lot about, I feel like I'm, you know, tired and maybe more naturally critical just because of fatigue or exhaustion. And so I've been trying to think, I've been trying to think of like, okay, if I'm going to criticize somebody, what's actually the best way to do it? And I've been thinking recently, this is a thought I had last night, like actually the best way to criticize someone is something like this where it's like, hey, hey, Sean, you

know what you didn't um you didn't do this with the amount of excellence that i know you're capable of no no no no i'm saying like i'm saying like tidiness wise so twisted i think that calling out it's encouraging to be like hey you're capable of this and we didn't do that without the without the intention obviously i still have a lot to work on with that but we yeah yeah i mean it's all in the presentation i mean that's the pita mary i totally get that like Like, if she, like, she'll, like, you know, passive aggressively, like, not taking out the trash. Like, she'll hold this grudge. And I'm like, I can't read your mind.

Like, if you wanted me to take out the trash, just say, hey, babe, would you mind taking that trash? I know you're capable of taking out that trash. Don't be like, like, don't let it store up. Be like, I'm like, I can't read your mind. Like, go ahead. Just tell me. Like, I can handle it. Like, hey, I need you to go do this.

And I'll be like, yeah. Like, sometimes I don't know that I should have done that. So I agree. I agree. I feel that. Andrew would say, you can do better. I can do better. I'm encouraging you.

I also want you guys to talk about your podcast, Table 40. Yeah, it's been fun. We teased it at the beginning, but I'm curious what your goal is with that. Yes. Well, we didn't really have a goal. We just were kind of like, okay, you know, but it's been awesome. It's been so awesome. We really did.

We were kind of late to the podcast party. Like, I didn't know that this was such a big deal or people were doing so many or whatever. and she kind of got us into it with the suggestion that it might be a good idea for pro-athlet outreach that, hey, you know, podcasts really are good, young people are listening to them. This might be a good vehicle to get people to know about the outreach and just, and they were like, okay, cool, why don't you do it? And Leslie's like, and then so that was right about the time COVID hit and our season got shut down here at Oklahoma State.

And so she's like, hey, we're going to do a podcast together. And I was like, what? I'm not doing a podcast. And she's like, yeah, yeah, well, you know, I'm like, well, about what? Like, what's our angle? And so we had to come up with, like, what we were going to do and kind of how we were going to do it. And we kind of just jumped into it, not really knowing what we were doing. And it was evident.

And we just called some of our friends, like, hey, the Burtman said they would do it. Of course, because they're just our friends. They probably didn't really want to do it. And they struggled through it with us. And so, you know, it was kind of one of those things that just kind of started. And it was fun. And then, you know, Jason Romano. who is mutual friends of ours, as you guys know.

And he encouraged us and gave us some good feedback. And I think the more comfortable you get talking to people and just kind of like how it flows and how to ask questions and kind of the conversation style that we were aiming for, I like to think we've gotten better. And it's been fun, like Leslie was saying, we've had a lot of guests that we didn't know that well, that we've got the chance to know.

And then a lot of our friends that we thought we knew really well, you find out a lot of cool stuff about them when you start asking questions about their story. And I think one thing we've learned is that everybody has a really cool story or adversity they've overcome or there's just people are fascinating. And when you get to know them and get to kind of dig in there a little bit, it's been pretty cool. And I would say the goal of it now that, you know, like he said, the first couple, I was talking to this girl the other day and I might end up disciplining her and she said, hey, I listen to the, the, first couple episodes of your podcast. It's like, oh, yeah, don't do that. I was like, go about like 10, 11,

12. I was like, skip over those first couple ones because it is very, it's harder than you think it is. And so, and you guys know this, but it's just kind of like, man, what are we going to, what, what are we doing? You know, like, why did we start this? And so it's just kind of interesting, but the goal for me now that we're a little bit more organized with our thoughts and have a little bit more experience. The goal for me is to glorify the Lord in casual conversations. And like Matt said, people are fascinating and everybody has a story. And adversity is usually a part of someone's journey. And I just think, oh, I've just so enjoyed it. I've so enjoyed it. And it's there, we've had conversations with people at our table. Like, it's called Table 40 because over the course

of Matt's career, we had tons of table conversations. We're pretty hospitable. And we love having people over and so that just made a lot of sense for us to call it table 40 and 40 is from Psalm 40 which is one of my favorite verses in scripture passages in scripture and it's just everyone's salvation story in a pretty pretty clear picture that our salvation is received from Jesus and we can't achieve it on our own and so it was just two things that meant a lot to us and we combined it called it table 40 and we just jump in and talk to our first. with the goal of glorifying the Lord, or if someone's curious about the faith, they can listen to pretty casual conversations.

When we talk about leadership and family and parenting and marriage, you know, not all of them are believers, but, you know, we've talked to a lot of people about just kind of life and some people that have offered a lot of cool leadership stuff. And so it's been fun. Like I said, we've tried to branch out in a different sport. and get different kind of a lot of my baseball people because I know a lot of baseball people but we've tried to reach out to some other people but it's been it's been fun you mentioned you're hospitable I guess we'll wait for the invite uh no we're ready for you guys yes we're ready

yeah you come to Oklahoma we'll show you a good time I do love Oklahoma City I tell you what sorry I mean I don't know if that's OSU country I guess are right up the road we're about an hour for me we're about an hour from me So it's close enough. We are, we're so thankful that you took the time to sit down and talk to us. We have one more question and then we'll wrap this up. Matt, I know you're late for practice probably. We're good.

The best piece of marriage advice that you have either been given from someone or would give based off your experience. I think to me it's a little bit what we talked about earlier and how you present things to each other. Like if you have a problem or there's a there's something going on that's that's a problem, I think getting it before it becomes a big problem and how you say it and how you present it in love can prevent a lot of conflict and kind of like things that start out as small, getting big. Does that make sense? And so I would say like how things, how you present your problem, whatever you want to call it issue. The earlier and with more love and grace, like she talked about earlier, I think you have a much better chance of working through those things.

But if you let it kind of sink in there and get deep, and I think sometimes that can be challenging to get over. And I think for me that I would say the temptation to compare our marriages to other people's marriages, they say that right, that comparisons of thief of joy. and I see that a lot with with couples and oftentimes we look at older couples and we're you know maybe be tempted to compare our husbands to you know a more mature man or something right and so no I'm just saying like that's a temptation that that I think a lot of we will go down that road sometimes and I think just not comparing marriages is wise and and just being present and

And, you know, I think is really important. And so I don't know. I see comparison a lot. And that's a joy stealer for sure. But yeah, in presentation on grievances within a home, it's a big deal. We've learned that. That's good. I like how you phrase both of those.

Thank you for that. Yeah. Now I got to go freaking figure out how to do what you just said. It's a dirty. Matt, Leslie. so much for the time. We'll link your information down below so people can check out your podcast and your Instagrams. No Twitter, though. We will not link Twitter. Don't exist. I have a Twitter. I don't have many followers. I didn't start what she said until like

after I was done playing. So I only have 4,000 or 5,000 on Twitter. So it's fine. It's fine. See, what you're doing that is comparing to other people who have more Twitter followers. And that's what we just, yeah. Well, I just want to put it out there. Like, I don't have, like, I'll share you guys like this. I'll put it on my, all my social media, but that doesn't mean anything. Like, there's not a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah, we need to have you guys on table 40.

Let's make it happen. That would be awesome. We'll have to figure out. You guys to come to Oklahoma and we'll do it live and we'll show you guys. Come to the table. As long as Leslie Cooks. Hey, thanks, guys.