Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 90 Carlos and Heather Whittaker

Episode Date: November 10, 2021

We are joined by Carlos and Heather Whittaker. Carlos is a best-selling author, speaker, and hope dealer! Our conversation touches on sacrifice in marriage, seeking help and mentorship in tough times, how to cope in healthy ways, and the importance of faith in marriage. WE ARE NOMINATED FOR A PEOPLE'S CHOICE AWARD! you can vote here! bit.ly/3jW0aIm Here are a few topics we covered: 0:00 introduction 6:06 carlos' massive career shift 8:15 the sacrifices and perspective from heather 10:00 the realization that carlos wasn’t happy 13:20 dangers of thinking suffering needs to be a part of the journey 15:08 the kite vs the kite holder 17:36 medicators and coping mechanisms 22:42 getting outside help 26:16 how they met 28:06 the dating to married timeline 30:00 the adoption process and journey 38:17 balancing striving vs surrendering 42:08 carlos' most proud accomplishments 45:30 heather's most proud accomplishments 48:18 best piece of advice for marriage You can follow Carlos on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/loswhit/?hl=en Carlos Whittaker’s website here: https://carloswhittaker.com ANDD....WE ARE GOING ON TOUR!! Check out the link below to see if we are coming to a city near you in 2022! Click here to get your tickets now: https://www.couplethingspod.com/ We are sponsored by this company that we love. Check them out below:  HoMedics receive a FREE filter with your purchase by going to HoMedics.com/COUPLETHINGS and using code: COUPLETHINGS  If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. Follow us on Instagram to keep the conversation going at https://www.instagram.com/couplething... And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Subscribe for more! http://bit.ly/3rnOdNo Follow My Instagram http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Like the Facebook page!  http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Twitter  http://www.twitter.com/ShawnJohnson Snapchat! @ShawneyJ Follow AndrewsTwitter http://www.twitter.com/AndrewDEast Follow My Instagram http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Like the Facebook page! http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Snapchat! @AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And so we wonder why so many people are crashing and burning as they're striving and chasing all these things. I'm like, no, you've got to surrender. You have to slow down. You have to lower the volume of life. You have to lower the intensity and just that's where the healing and the health is going to start coming in. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. What's Sean and Andrew? A podcast all about couples and the things they go through. day we have Carlos and Heather Whitaker. Wow, what a treat this was. So I first came across Carlos unofficially met him when I started going to church here in Nashville like 11 years ago. This was

our first conversation though. This guy's big time and it was a real treat to sit down with him and his wife, Heather. So they have won a People's Choice Award for the most viral video. Yes, of their family, which is hysterical. It is pretty great. We'll link that down below. But Carlos has written three books. First was inner wild. Second was kill the spider and the third was a moment maker. And Carlos is all about being a hope dealer, as he calls it. So we talk about a lot of things, including his struggle with addictions on a number of different things and how he was kind of unsettled in life despite experiencing all of his hopes and dreams and realizing those. We actually have a really interesting conversation about that we could relate to about how sometimes when you're seeking your dream

and you're on your path to your dream you lose sight of the most important things and sometimes realize that that dream means sacrificing too much and you're going in the wrong direction yeah uh are you referring to my NFL career is that it or your career which what all of it I think we can all relate yeah sometimes it is easy to get wrapped up and trying to gather accolades or awards or money, whatever it is. And as Sean said, you kind of lose sight of, oh, what actually matters to me and what's important in my life. So that's just a friend of reminder. Both Sean and I have experienced that me and trying to just ruthlessly achieve my goal of playing in the NFL. It took me five years. And in that process, fortunately, I was actually able to flesh through what was important

and what wasn't. And by the time my career ended, I feel like I was at a better place than before, as far as knowing what my priorities were so and i would say the same for me when i tried to make the 2012 olympic team i was going against everything in my soul that told me this was wrong and it wasn't until i quit and pursued something completely different that i was actually happy and on the right path it's weird how a lot of those decisions like you quitting gymnastics makes zero sense to the outside outsider's perspective. But anyway, we will link information on Carlos and his wife Heather down below. They're super interesting couple. Heather loves to do farming. And so that's what her Instagram is about. But she has been the rock in that relationship. And they talk about

their two daughters and adopted son, Lozai, as well. Anyway, fantastic couple. We're super appreciative that they joined us. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to the show and give rating. We are honored to actually be submitted and nominated for a people's choice award ourselves. And so the voting for that ends soon. We're going up against people like Dax Shepard, Conan O'Brien, like the Caller Daddy podcast, Emma Chamberlain. So I think it would actually be really cool if this podcast won because our community is fantastic and the comments that we see, the interaction we see, I feel like really makes a difference and isn't the, you know, stereotypical click bait clickbait profanity vulgarity that is so easily spread but it's really kind of

about encouraging and supporting family so if you're about that then we'll also link the the voting link down below so that's all we got without further ado Carlos and Heather Whitaker Carlos and Heather it's a true pleasure to have you on the show thanks for joining us well thanks for inviting us on couple things yeah yeah appreciate that I Carlos if you wouldn't mind just starting by saying your full name. That would be great. My full name, my full name is, and this is what my mom would call me

when I was in trouble as a kid. Cardo Sanrique would get Guzmanor Chbogabelle. So that's it right there. That's the whole thing. You always count. Do you do that, like, to remember? Yeah, well, no, I want to make sure

that I get Cardo Sanrico with you get to Spongeokabelle, and it's six. Well, Winnaker, too. Yeah. Wittaker's in there, baby. Godlost. Eda. But I just say it, I say it like a Latino.

You're right. You're right. You're right. Sorry. Heather, and then just to balance the scale, you can say your full name too. Yeah, Heather Rachel Whitaker. Oh, yeah. Not as exciting. Sorry. Oh, sorry. We'll just have my full sleep. So it's fun to be speaking with you guys. Carlos, I know we have a bunch of mutual friends. I've been going to Crosspoint Church for the past 11 years in Nashville. And we were just talking about, I feel like I'm so familiar with you jumping around.

on stage leading worship that like here we're finally having a conversation so this is fun i know i know that that was that you you know like the um the old iteration of carlos like the worship leader iteration of car like i would say that most people now don't even that follow me have no clue i even ever did music and so right now their their minds are being blown like wait a second what you sing so yeah i actually forget the other day our daughter was playing it was probably last year but our daughter is playing a guitar and she couldn't get something, you know, the right rhythm. And he's like, oh, let me show you. And I'm like, oh, I forgot you actually used to make money doing that.

Did you try to forget? Was it because the quality wasn't good? You're trying to force that out of your memory or? He just hasn't done it in so long that it was just like, wow. Well, she says make money. I didn't make a lot of money doing it. We were pretty broke. That is true.

So definitely enough to keep the water on. Great. Can you talk about that a little bit, though? because we were reading within your bio that you basically had a massive career shift within your marriage of you moved to Nashville for music and then very quickly said actually I don't want to do that I want to do something completely different yeah you know and it actually there were there were a lot of iterations in our marriage a lot of conversations that we had that that led to what I'm doing now yeah we came came to Nashville 2010 signed a record deal with

integrity music went on the road with newsboys and john mark mcmillan and you know did i mean i was out there man i was doing it i was grinding and i was miserable like i was miserable and you know it's so funny people come to nashville to become rock stars right and to make it and i realized really quickly that that's not what i wanted to do and it was heather that that constantly said because before before i was like a signed recording artist i was a worship pastor um at a church for a long time but I had this blog now for your listeners or maybe you guys that aren't old enough to remember what the internet was like before social media we had these things called blogs and I would write on it every day and I had like thousands of readers every day and Heather would always tell

me babe like you're just you're a lot better word writer than you are like songwriter like in the moment the people would connect with Carlos because he would actually talk to them like within the worship set he would actually like engage. with him and explain worship. And those moments were where people connected. And he would always get compliments and like, wow, I really, you know, and that was like, that's what he does now outside of the music part. Yeah. So, so it definitely was people were not being affected by my melodies, but were definitely being affected by what I would say between the melodies. And I started thinking, well, I wonder if this could be a thing. And so I wrote my first book still kind of one

foot in worship, leading one foot in speaking in 2014. But then once I started speaking, I realized, okay, no, this is actually, this is the thing. And yeah, I've been doing it, you know, ever since. And, you know, it's definitely was the right career choice. So, well, Carlos, if there's one thing I know about you is that your enthusiasm is unmatched. So I don't know. I'd actually, Heather, I'm curious to get a peek behind the curtain from your perspective during that time where Carlos was pursuing this dream. And I'm sure you're making sacrifices to help him. pursue that dream, but watching him do that and not enjoy it, I feel like there's some unique struggles to that where it's like, you know, hey, I'm making these sacrifices and

you're not even appreciating it, like to some extent, right? Yeah, it was quite the season of our life because because I think we're searching for like meaning and validation and like our identity, right? And so he was thinking that his identity was becoming this signed artist and yet that wasn't fulfilling it so you know and I think you see so many people you know we have so many stories of hearing famous people searching and you're like wait I thought if you made it you're you're satisfied and he just wasn't satisfied and so it was such a it was such a hard place to be like oh but I am drowning here at home and you're still you know searching this thing it and there is a season where you do have to allow a spouse to or a child people in relationship

when you see them going away that you're like oh you're just chasing something you're actually not finding that that who you are place um you just have to yeah you just kind of have to let them and you know and it was a hard a hard season of letting him um but ultimately you know god was kind and and walked him step by step through finding actually true, true freedom, which was what he was searching for all along. I am curious, though, within that, Andrew and I have gone through that as well. With football, with, like, transitions that we've made.

There's always an interesting time within your marriage, though, where, Heather, you're seeing that he's not happy. And did that realization come at the same time for you guys? or was it kind of this balancing act of how do I get across to him that this might not be it even though it is his dream at the time or in Carlos did you realize it before she did how did that conversation ever be brought like get brought up in all of our questions that ever have been asked of us that's never been asked so that's such a great question what a good question yeah let's go babe yes yes it's It's so interesting because we got married so young, like, and we really grew up together and now looking back, like, I wish I had the knowledge and the wisdom and the vocabulary even to understand some of the places that we were walking in and what was happening in those moments, but we just didn't have that knowledge, you know, and some of it is, you know, just in

the psychology realm, some of it is in the spiritual realm, some of it is just in the life, you know, having more birthdays underneath our belt type of space. So I think for us, like, do you remember? Like, we literally were back then. Well, I'm trying to think of like 2010. Okay. Like coming to Nashville. Coming to Nashville.

Like I was as unhealthy of a human being as I've ever been chasing. So it's kind of like a combination of it. So it's hard to like separate your question to his. Yeah. but I mean to answer your question for me like I I was so miserable like literally so miserable but there there was this thought in my head if I could just get to this point right if I could just get there then then that's going to give it to me right then oh then I'm going to I'm going to have it then if I just have a manager and then if I just get on a tour

where I'm like not the opening guy but the second guy then I promise baby and I promise kids like daddy's going to be healthy again and we're going to get there and then I got there oh no no if I just get and then so I was in this cycle of being miserable yet thinking that when I got somewhere the next thing right was going to be the thing that gave it to me and she's sitting there what were you going to say so I was going to say do you remember now you get to look back but do you remember being miserable yes I remember saying to to friends at the time like I hate life like like I remember like well I've never said that to you right right um but um but but but yeah like in those in that season of of seeing my wife miserable

because the decisions i was making to medicate my identity crisis right so like i have an identity crisis i go and i medicate with alcohol or porn or whatever it is then i'm medicating which is wounding her which is having her to medicate in some way and it's just the cyclical pattern of of unhealth and not not realizing that freedom was actually so close yeah we just we We were just staring in the wrong direction, you know? In the moment, I know this is hard because you were saying in 2010. In the moment, though, since you were chasing your dream, I feel like this is probably a mistake we all make.

Did you think that that's what you needed to go through in order to succeed? Like, while you're struggling, while you're miserable, while you're medicating, were you thinking, oh, this is what it takes? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's, there's, I think this. this glorified version of suffering that people have have created that oh you know what yeah you're all everyone's going to have a rough season of marriage you hear people say stuff like that all the time oh you know the teen when your kids are teenagers it's just going to be horrible it's going to be miserable

and we're speaking this stuff into i think into existence when the truth is it doesn't right everybody doesn't have to have a miserable season of marriage you don't have to have a miserable season of parenting and and you know i think now i look back and I just think, man, like, if, if I just would have had like a healthy leader, somebody that was like one step ahead of me, just with me, mentoring me, like, if I would have just, I would have been, I would have paid millions of dollars for that that I didn't have because we went through a season because we didn't have leadership around us. We didn't have people that we were submitted to underneath, really in a church structure

even that were guiding us, I think, in a direction that we needed to go. And so now that we're, you know, in a healthy space like that. that, you know, it's just like, oh, if we would have just had this then, you know. So I don't, I don't think everyone has to go through that when you're chasing your dreams. Yes, it's going to be hard and we're all going to have hard seasons. And yeah, you got to, you have to work. You have to, you have to push through things. But there's a difference between like, struggling and like sin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think sometimes, like, say, there's conflict between Sean and I. It's like I'll maybe take a coping mechanism or, uh,

comforting thing where I'll be like you know what this marriage is tough and everyone like I do maybe just tell myself hey this is normal and there's something nice about knowing that my parents went through this as well as probably every other you know married couple but this is it's an interesting dynamic between you two because Heather it seems like for lack of a better term you're you know kind of the actually the the analogy that we've been told before was like there's a kite and there's a kite holder in a in a relationship where like one person is kind of like the foundation or like the rock and the other person is pursuing whatever ambitions. And we've been taught that that switches. It can switch daily or it can switch through

phases of life. Yeah, yeah. But Carlos, you know, you've been the kite through these phases that we've heard about and Heather, you've been kind of a steady rock. But gosh, Carlos, you're talking about go ahead sorry no i just was going to say i think you know i i think that is i mean i am more steady and he is more um more of a kite um i even think of a kite on a windy day and that's exactly what i look like just like right around but on the other side of that like you know i think my medicator behaviors are like throwing dinner parties so that people feel loves so that i can make sure that they you know um so that i have that identity in in people knowing loving you know me and so it's not and i do that out of a unhealthy space versus just like hey i'm going to throw a dinner

party right so like or even having a birthday party look a certain way or you know just my house designed in a certain way those type of things can also look as like Pinterest can look really pretty and yet that can also be just as much as as as porn you know So I think you have to understand where your route is, like where you're coming from and why in certain situations, you know, because it may look like I'm more of a solid rock, which, yes, I am. But, but it's just, you know, it could also look like that might not be. And also, I've been trying to do a better job with this myself, understanding that the different, like a rock is not better than the kite. Like there's, there's pros and cons to both. them in like in this situation a hundred percent yeah yeah and it's like it's kind of the sign of

maybe like a healthy dynamic there but yeah you have you you balance each other out in whatever phase of life you're in and through that phase of life i i well two things i want to go to you you both have used the term medicator yep and medicating how did you come across that and how do you now use that because I like, I like how you guys are using that in the context of your relationship. Yeah. So I wrote a book in 2017 called Kill the Spider. And, and I, the book is, it's really simple, right? A spider is an agreement you've made with a lie. And a cobweb is a medicating behavior that brings comfort to the lie. So the problem in most people's lives in America or the world is they focus on the cobwebs. They clean the cobwebs. Alcohol, drugs, porn, affairs.

throwing dinner parties, hustling, workaholism, those are all meditators. Those are all things that are bringing you, making you feel better about a lie that you believe. So the lie is a spider. You got to kill the spider, not clean the cobwebs. And so we use the word medicator a lot because it's just a simple way for people to think, oh, well, what is the thing I'm using to medicate the lie, I believe, right? And so the the medicators aren't the problems. The porn's not the problem. The alcohol is not the problem. The affairs aren't the problem. the dinner parties aren't the problem that those things are simply things that are making you feel better about a lie that you believe so when you break the agreement with the lie you're free you don't clean that don't worry about the medicators break the agreement with the lie find the lie find the lie and so we use that term a lot you know medicator because that we we try to help people very quickly get past actually that's not the problem like i know that you feel like that's the problem their whole life focusing on the actual behavior yeah when it's It's actually, okay, but why?

Yeah. Yes, I understand that you may need to put some boundaries in place, you know, just kind of in life. But the reality is you're doing this for a certain reason and you have to look beyond that outer shell. Have you guys been able to help each other kill the other person's spider? Yeah. I mean, definitely we've, you know, when it left, I would say 2017, kill the spider came out. I was really, it was really, I think a good tool helping people find their spiders. and I gave one or two ways to kill it, even though the book was called Kill the Spider,

probably wouldn't have sell as many if it was called Find the Spider. You know, but then, you know, after that, when I would say from 2018 to now, we have definitely been in spider killing season and killing mode. And where now, I mean, Heather, like, serves on our church's inner healing ministry team at our church. And so, like, I mean, that's basically her whole job at church is to pray for two hours at time with people helping people find their their wound and to and to find that lie and to break the agreement with the lie and so now we're definitely in this space of like we are like even with our kids our kids each other yeah even our kids say to us like uh actually dad

I think that's a cobweb right I mean it's just it's like language in our house now and so it's pretty cool at what point are you like hey I'm not qualified to help you kill this spider and we need We need some outside help. Like is there a signal for that or when do you know? Well, I think there was, I don't even, I don't know time, but there was a season where there was stuff kind of like patterns that I was beginning to see in Carlos, I was like, oh, there's something like even he has like, and what would you call it like?

You could say a thousand things right now. You're right. Oh, yeah, like health anxiety. Oh, health anxiety. So like sometimes like, will be, and he'll be like, gosh, my cough just hasn't gone away, you know. And I can see in his mind, he's starting to like entertain different things, right? Uh-huh. So entertain different ideas. And so, you know, like I will and those places like, hey, like watch what you're saying. Like don't make any

agreements. Don't, you know, like be careful. And I'll like kind of call that out. But then there are other times that I'm like, oh, no, no, no. Like, because I, what I believe, I believe God's really kind. And I believe that he, like our life is kind of like an onion. So he takes us layer by layer what place we can go to, right? And so he's going to continue until eternity, get us more and more healing. We're never going to be complete, right? So there's always going to be layers. There's always going to be places where we as humans need to actually forgive somebody,

you know, confess something, whatever that healing place he's going to draw us on or two. And so I think there are times that we may come up and he may have revealed something to us that's like, oh, wow. I don't even remember my dad saying that at that time, but I had this picture. I had a dream and it reminded me of this time that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, like in your past. And those are the places that it's so easy and important, I think, to go to outside help. Like, we can talk about it. And yes, we have the tools and the ability. and in our faith, like the faith, the God who doesn't need, you know, a counselor to help him, right?

And but yet there are things that are just great to have other people's perspective, other people's eyes on it. That's why when he was saying, like, there's the prayer team that I'm on, like, it's so easy. I'm not in somebody else's fog. So it is so easy for me to hear things that they're saying, even in just kind of, conversation like so what brought you in today and I could hear all these lies in their in their sentence and they don't realize that they're saying these lies or saying things about you know like oh I just I'm all alone you know like they don't hear that they're saying those things and I just pick up on it because it's not my narrative and so going for outside help for like those type of things

it is valuable you know I think um we I mean we've done hours and hours and hours of counseling in our lives, which has been so great. And especially in like the emergency spaces, you know, like, what do we do right now? Those counselors have been life to us. But our true healing has come through different types of prayer and different type of encounters with trained people. I wouldn't really call them professionals because they're just, you know, normal lay people. Professional prayers. But that's really where our freedom and kate has come from so um you know still outside help how did you guys meet yeah um i mean Heather was 18 she was uh working as a snowboard a snowboard bunny on a mountain she she wasn't bunny back that's yeah i said she's snowboarding every day

she was working a chairlift me and some buddies um we weren't snowboarders we were in california the time And we weren't skiers and snowboarders at the time. So we'd like put on my seventh grade ski bib and a couple of my buddy friends went up on a mountain and in central California. And there was this cute girl working the chairlift and we started flirting with her. And she would flirt with my two friends and not me and whatever, never thought I'd see her again. And then, yeah, and then we ended up, I ended up seeing her a couple weeks later, this is in Fresno, California, like at the community college and then at church.

And I kept seeing the snowboard girl all around town. And I kept at the time, like, I don't know if I was paging my friends. I don't know what devices we were communicating on. But I was like, dude, the snowboard chick goes to church. The snowboard chick. And I kept seeing her all over the place. Long story short, a friend of mine was like, hey, I'm going to go have coffee with my girlfriend. But we're kind of, she wants to bring a friend and I'm going to bring a friend.

I was like, cool. So he brought me. And then his girlfriend brought Heather. And I show up and I was like, holy crap, you're the chick, the snowboard chick. I remember, like, it was like some coffee shop. And I remember, like, looking at the menu, you know, and he's like, oh, and I saw you at Sierra Summit. And then I saw you at, and he starts listening on the places that he's seen me. I was like, oh, okay.

He's like, stalker. Weird. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But then we, then I never thought. I tried to impress her. I didn't impress her. Then a couple weeks later, I got a phone call asking for guitar lessons.

And, you know, I started, I taught her like three guitar chords. And then next thing, you know, we're making out. It was beautiful. So how long after was the day? process, the engagement of the marriage. Yeah, we, we dated three years, right? Three years. I mean, again, she was 18. Yeah. Yeah. When I met her, but moved down to Southern California from Central California to go to California back to university. And then dated there. And then I started, I started a church there called Sandals Church. Were we married before that? No, we were. No. No. And then, yeah, and then we,

So we did it for three years, got married. I was on staff for the church. Right. Oh, that's right. It was, it was started there. I started working there. But yeah, then we had all our kids there. We adopted our Stunlossia while we were there. Thought we'd be there forever in Southern California. And then made the move to Atlanta, Georgia for a few years, worked at North Point with Andy Stanley for a couple years. And then, you know, I've been in Nashville ever since 2010. Heather, that's a that's a wide departure from being a lifty at uh yeah it's still like my heart i know listen don't bring it up she'll start crying right now like i took her from the mountain it's so bizarre that my life shifted like that because i literally could have i could see you know my little two-year-olds on skis before they were

even walking and yet yeah i've ruined i've ruined her her children can't even ski so you know wow we live in nashville geez although we did for the first time. My brother's an instructor at Squaw, and he last year during COVID was kind of, you know, a little more free. And so we took the family and my kids thought I was the coolest. It was so fun because I've never seen them think that I was actually cool. Because Heather's like amazing. And they were like, mom, you are so cool. I was like, oh, thanks. That's awesome. Tell us about the adoption process for you. So I know you have two girls to Haley. Sohela and Siena.

Sienna. Sienna. Sorry. We name them hard names. I love it. Don't feel bad if you can't. So our old, this is Sohela. Our middle is Sayana and then Lothiah.

So we have a 19, 18, and 15 year old. So one, how did the conversation get brought up? And then two, what was the process like for you? Sure. We obviously, I mean, Losaia is 15. So it has been a hot minute since. That conversation happened, but this will actually give you the timing away is it began with Oprah and she used to be on every day at three and would have a show, which some people don't even know anymore. But we were watching Oprah and she did a show where she went to Africa.

And within that whole show, there was a segment about a mom who is raising children in Africa who have been raped. And specifically, there is a myth or was, I don't know, this was, you know, 17 years ago. There was a myth, maybe still is, that if you have sex with a virgin, you'll be cured of AIDS. And so these babies were being raped because they, you know, were trying to, men were trying to be cured. Yeah, of AIDS. And so obviously when that trauma happens, you know, part of their soul and spirit are crushed. And so this mom just really felt the need and desire to raise these babies. So she had a house on that.

And so that just was like, oh, I would love to do that after I raise up my kids, have some sort of situation like that. So that kind of began the conversation. And then Oprah again had a segment with Lisa Ling. And she went to China and kind of exposed the crisis that China was having with females little girls being dropped off everywhere just because they had at the time the one child rule and so you know boys were more valuable so baby girls are being dropped off and there was just an explosion in orphanages and all that stuff so Carlos was like China I want a little girl from

China so we kind of were like well let's look into it so we looked into it and I was not old enough at the time you had to be 30 for China Africa which was the country that I was kind of drawn to it there really was not it's so funny to say this because now it's so big but like there weren't any unless you went private which we were two broke kids you know a pastor like we didn't have lawyers or anything like that to understand how to do a private adoption there there were organizations over there where you could adopt from Africa so it kind of began with let's find we found an organization that recommended again also it's so funny because like the internet was scary like we didn't know what to

trust it was kind of new like you know like we didn't know we didn't know much about it so we found a local artist even Curtis Chapman who had adopted and he had we trusted him and he had an organization that shared different adoption agencies and so we kind of went through each one and literally only one matched us like with where we wanted to adopt from and so it literally like one door opened one country opened one sex opened so it ended up us being um south africa i know south africa oh my gosh is south korea and a little boy because korea believes in mixed gender um families and since we had two biological girls or they would only place us with a boy and so that it was a two-year process and it just kind of was a quick yeah you know easy oh i mean it wasn't easy

financially like it was right it was very very expensive you know on a on a worship pastor salary and a small church plant like we we did all the grants and you know fundraisers and did all the things and we we started with 61 cents in our checking account when we started the process and um yeah in our savings account and we uh there's probably only like 67 cents in a checking account too but uh we yeah we ended up uh you know adopting locia we got matched with him we went to the whole things on YouTube are on our YouTube channel like when we went in 2007 it was 2006 2006 i think youtube was like six months old but i i created an account and i put all of our videos there's like 10 hours of video you can watch our whole thing he's so good at editing

videos but you can see where he started because these videos are so long they're so long but but it's fun to go back and watch you know and and to see but um yeah you know and a lot of people you know, nowadays adoption is a big thing, right? Everyone talks about adoption, foster care, all these things. But it's, you know, I get a little nervous when it becomes glorified and when it becomes like this glamorous thing because, you know, it is hard. Like adopting a child isn't for your social media account. Adopting a child isn't so that you feel like you're rescuing something. Like, that's not not in any way, shape, or form what it, what it is. And unfortunately, I've seen even friends adopt maybe under the wrong pretense and have ended up, you know,

with some very tough, tough, tough situations. Well, so clarify what you mean adopting isn't rescuing someone, because that's, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. That's what that's, I think there's there's, you have to be careful. You have to be careful between rescue and care, right? So, so like scripture tells us that true, true religion and true worship is to care for widows and orphans. Okay.

And I think that sometimes in evangelicalism and evangelical America, and we create the saviorism that we somehow feel like we are the ones that are rushing in to rescue these poor little children that are, you know, and what I mean, I say it all the time, like my son has rescued me way more than I've rescued him. You know, like, like I realized that I was actually in the need of this relationship even more than he was. And I just think we have to be careful because when we go charging in to rescue some poor or orphan from a third world country, I'm telling you that that's not what happens. Like, like, you're, you're going to end up needing a lot more rescue on your side spiritually because you've got to break soul size. You've got to break generational curses. You got to, there's all sorts of things that are coming with a human being soul that you are inviting in to get tied in with your soul, right? And so, like, I just say it all the time. like it's not you're not going in there like a superhero and rescuing some kid and i would

really i would really say that like we have walked with so many families and this is not like if this is something that you know and you're committed to that's awesome like we are a product of it and we have an amazing son um but i think the older the child is in the adoption process you is more of the gauge that you have to have of i we are a healthy couple we are we are connected in a community we have the resources to go to counseling we have you know like specialized trauma counseling because there's because kids are coming from abandonment often violence countries often so many places and those are those years that like even though they say kids are resilient yes and our bodies are amazing to be able to kind of survive but

those traumas are still there and if they're not dealt with like it is they come out in other ways they come out in different ways and so i encourage those who do feel called to adopt to kind of know what they're capable of you're willing to say whatever happened however this baby comes out it's mine right and so that you have to have that same that same thought so wow well kudos to you guys for going through it yeah and making it happen carlos i can't stop thinking about about your statement on chasing something, what advice do you have to stop, to stop chasing? Because I was resonating with it from my football career. I was like, when I was a kid, all I wanted was to play Division I football.

That was it. Then I got a Division I scholarship. And I started a couple games. I was like, oh, well, wouldn't it be fun to maybe get an NFL tryout? And then I got some NFL tryouts. And I was like, I would love to sign with the team. Then I signed with seven teams. I was like, I just want to play in a game.

How do you stop that? Yeah, you know, I think that freedom from that isn't found in striving, which is what you and I are really good at doing. It's found in surrender. And so there's just a big difference between striving and surrendering. And it is a daily process of surrendering for me. Like it is, you know, and a lot of it is in the amount of birthdays and years that you get where you realize, guess what, you know, you know, all the starting for NFL teams,

I mean, right? Like how many, how many, like, NFL, like, stars are, like, completely miserable, you know, in their lives, right? like you just see it like it's never ending like like the thing that striving never ends like it's got to be in surrender so for me it became okay how can i practice surrender every day how can i practice rest every day how can i practice slowing down every day because what what happens inevitably is we speed up we speed up we speed up we speed up we speed up and then we crash and i'm i'm here to tell you like jesus the pace of his life was three miles an hour that is how fast Jesus Christ did ministry three miles an hour. He walked at three miles an hour. He walked everywhere he went. Nothing. Nothing we do in 2021 is three miles an hour. And so we wonder why so many people

are crashing and burning as they're striving and chasing all these things. I'm like, no, you've got to surrender. You have to slow down. You have to lower the volume of life. You have to lower the intensity and just that's where the healing and the health is going to start coming in. But what's the balance between that and still? I feel like there can be godly ambitions right like oh sure right so how do you balance that what's the line here yeah i mean it's it's a great question you you will know you i mean everybody knows in there nowhere when when they are chasing identity or chasing um or working hard or working hard right like i work really hard like i i've i've spent 10 nights out of the last 60 in my own house why because i am out on air

I am speaking on stages. I am inspiring people. I am going. I'm going, but guess what? I make sure that after those 60 days, there's about three months that are coming up. I'm not doing anything but fishing. I'm not chasing a thing.

I am, you know, and so there's a ebb and a flow. Working hard isn't the problem. But you got to remember that the scripture in James doesn't say every good and perfect gift comes from your hustle. But that's not what it says. Like it says, every good and perfect gift comes from above. And when we realize that it's, man, everybody's talented.

Everybody's gifted. Everyone in this town wants to be a songwriter. The person taking out the trash at the Starbucks down the street at Green Hills is probably a million times more talented of a songwriter than any other songwriter in any other city in this country. And if they're placing all their identity in their hustle and their hard work, I'm telling you, you will crash every time. It's not sustainable.

And so hard work is great, but you have to know that every good and perfect gift comes from above, your skill set that you, have, your athleticism that you have, right? If you're grateful and you give the glory to God as you run onto the football field, as you, you know, people do whatever crossfit workouts or whatever it is. Like all that is great. But as long as we keep reflecting back the glory to God instead of putting the glory on ourselves, that's when we start getting in trouble. So I'm curious for you, Carlos. You've been, you've had so many accomplishments. You've been on the Today Show, been on all the different TV channels. You've won a people's choice award. You've

three books. What are what are you most proud of of what you've done? And then, Heather, I'm curious from your perspective, because it might be a different answer. What are you most proud of him for accomplishing? I probably, I would probably say I'm most proud of my last book that I wrote because I want to say that I was as whole and healed of a person that I've ever been and healthy of a person that I've ever, when I wrote that book. Like, and, and I feel like it's the truest representation of what I want to be, what I want to be going forward. And so, you know, that was a, that was a, that was a difficult book to write because it took a lot of, a lot of dealing with crap to get there, right? And so I finally, you know, got there. So, you know, I, I would

probably say that was, that would be one of my, you know, accomplishments on this. I would say, though recently maybe I could tech this on just on social media like I have you know my I call my in stuff Amelia has they've come together that they're they're like this this hungry like they're hungry givers all they want to do is like give give give and so you know we've raised almost three quarters of a million dollars on Venmo and PayPal alone in the last six months just for random strangers so it just shows the power of like you know, I'm, and people are blown away when this happens. Like, I'm going to launch one this afternoon.

And I won't be surprised if in a few hours we raised $50,000 for this poor woman and, you know, that lost her husband and her baby in, in Maine. And I, like, I have the story set. I'm going to share it. And my people are hungry to give. And so I'm, I'm really proud that I've got this community of people that all vote differently, believe different things, coming together to help other people heal. So that's kind of, that's kind of something I'm proud of.

there was a guy who we were at a retreat and a retreat of influence yeah good word influential Christians right and he was talking about having problems because he had a brain tumor and all these things and had surgery and just all the aftermath of it and all the problems and symptoms and stuff and you know in the middle Carlos was like well let's just pray for you and he did and two days later the guy called and was like dude after you prayed for me like i've had zero symptoms like i even had ice cream i haven't been able to have ice cream because it would trigger and blah blah um in years and i had ice cream no problem and even that was in june and we texted him just this last week we're like hey just checking in on you how are you doing he goes totally symptom free

and he was so way down with all the things since i'm just so proud of him when he steps into those places of just hearing God and saying, why aren't we praying for him? Why aren't we doing this right now as a community? And so those places where he sees the individual, where he just really connects, whether it's through prayer, encouragement, or challenging somebody, just kind of those unseen places are where I'm most proud. And then I want to go vice versa. Heather, what are you most proud of? And Carlos, what are you most proud of her for? I just think, yeah, I am most proud of being able to hear God's voice in prayer time and see and be able to communicate that to somebody and see a revelation come to them and healing come from

them in that moment because of that situation. There's just nothing that gives a better high. There's just nothing that take my life now. Like those moments are seeing people free. moments are just by far the best thing ever. Yeah, I can confirm what she's saying. You know, I think for so long, it has been Carlos as the public, you know, figure like I'm out there on stages, traveling, doing all the things. And then it's, and then I don't know, probably four years ago maybe this started five years ago. I mean, Heather's the one that's led me into be, even being able to pray for healing for somebody and to see healing happen. So I, I am most proud

that Heather is she has found her sweet spot and I you know it's funny the other night our church was having a like inner healing prayer um prayer teaching like teaching like basically and Heather's up there in her stool you know like there's all these people like with their notes and she's up there like teaching like people how to pray and how to like find freedom and how to help other people and to hear the voice of God and I'm like making fun of me because I had my like my phone up in the back and I'm like recording her like kidding you know your kidding gardener is up on stage and he's like and I'm like recording her and my heart was just so full I could almost cry right now because I'm just so proud like I'm I'm literally walking next to like when she walks you can

hear her freaking armor clanging because she is just girded up with the belt of truth the breastplate of righteousness all the things and so like I'm just of my heart overflows seeing her being able to minister at her full capacity and I just couldn't be prouder it is such it may be the greatest experience in life when you realize your spouse or you see now we we've seen this with our kids like i sit here and i'm like i know that sean is x y z amazing in all these different ways and when she finally realizes that in whatever capacity or my kid does it's like it's so much fun it's like the best part of life to see them and become what you know they were in the first place, you know.

So good. You're amazing is what I'm trying to say. You want to ask the? Okay. So before we wrap, we always have one question. Within your marriage and dating, you've gone through a lot of ebbs and flows.

If you were to give yourself for anyone out there, one piece of advice, what would it be? Now I think I 100% would say, learn to hear the voice. of God. Was that what you're going to say? I guess it.

Well, sweet. That's our, that's our unified response. It is, I just, I'm going to try to think of something, because I don't, like, I don't know if their audience are. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, that, you know, that's just going to be it. I've got a lot of atheists that follow me and they know that that is the one thing that I say to do.

You know, they can call it whatever they want. They can call it their chakra or what I don't know with it, but, but I'm going to tell you that I call it Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. and like when I'm in tune with him, then we've got this thing down. When I'm not, we don't, you know? And so, yeah, just to learn to hear the voice of God. Okay, what are your tips on that? Heather, maybe since you share the same answer, you could give tips on how to get that.

Yeah, she gives some good tips. So hang on. You have to quiet yourself. There's no way in our world, in our just constant noise. go to the bathroom with you know i'm surprised we don't have an iPhone like protector for the shower right like there we are always in a surrounding noise vortex thing so you have to be able to silence yourself and even if that's getting home from work and turning off your car and sitting there for one minute before you go inside um there's moments that you know instead when you're in

a line instead of getting on your phone just be um i think there is things that you can do like just ask god do you love me like little things and what does he say if it's if it's negative and you know like dark it's not god so like you should be hearing i love you i see you i'm for you um and just start in those little places to be able to hear his voice um but gosh we just we just can't survive a day without um the detail um the detail tells that God gives us. And it is why our marriage now is thriving and why our family is healthy. Our kids are great. Does that mean that we don't have life hiccups and bumps that come our way? Of course not. But we as a family know that we're unified and we're going to battle it

with God's voice. So I just think God wants to talk to you. I mean, he brings the sun up every morning and changes the leaves colors and he you know created you with a taste of food like all those things like god thank you for this food i love food oh my gosh god i love fall thank you for the leaves all those things just begin to have a heart of praise and thankfulness like it just it'll change you yeah i like that a lot i i have realized that when sean and i are beefing it's usually because our perspective is like so zoned in on me me me me it's like yeah yeah you're you made me do these chores or you annoyed me like this because you didn't put my sock you didn't fold my socks up right like how I like them or and then it's like when you

actually step back and and this is why I think like serving together when you're married or dating or whatever phase you're in is so helpful because it gets you out of that focus of yourself and it's like oh yeah there's there's a whole world out there that like I have a lot to be thankful for myself and then also like we're doing this thing together and it's just because good in a lot of different ways. But Heather, Carlos, thank you so much for joining us. If you're curious to see more of these two, Carlos has written three books, Moment Maker, Kill the Spider, Enter the Wild.

He also has a podcast called Human Hope, which I think your most recent episode featured your son, Lysia. So you can learn more about their family there. And then are you comfortable sharing the church name publicly? Yeah. Yeah, no, yeah. We go to a church called the Belonging Co here in Nashville. Awesome.

We love it. Yeah, I just, I don't work there. I run camera three on, on Sundays. Like, you'll tune you with my little camera hanging in front of me. So, yeah, we've been there a number of years. We just love it there. Cool. And we'll also link all that down below.

But thank you so much for taking the time. And I'm excited to stay in touch. Yes, thanks, guys.