Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 97 Mattie Jackson Selecman

Episode Date: January 5, 2022

This week on Couple Things, we got to talk with Mattie Jackson Selecman. We dive into how Mattie navigates through grief after the death of her husband Ben in 2018. She also shares hilarious stories of her favorite memories with Ben, writing songs with her father and country-singer Alan Jackson, and all about her newly released book, 'Lemons on Friday'! You can follow Mattie on Instagram here ▶ https://www.instagram.com/mjselecman/ You can purchase 'Lemons on Friday' here ▶ www.lemonsonfriday.com ANDD....WE ARE GOING ON TOUR!! Check out the link below to see if we are coming to a city near you in 2022! Click here to get your tickets now ▶ https://www.couplethingspod.com/ If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. Follow us on Instagram to keep the conversation going at https://www.instagram.com/couplething... And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Subscribe for more! http://bit.ly/3rnOdNo Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Twitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/ShawnJohnson Snapchat! ▶ @ShawneyJ Follow AndrewsTwitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/AndrewDEast Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Snapchat! ▶ @AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Defender. With a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms and a waiting depth of 900 millimeters, the Defender 110 pushes what's possible. Learn more at landrover.ca. You had a book launch. You've been on upteen interviews. You wrote a song, racing in the dark. And our week was, how many times did we get thrown up on by the kids?

A few dozens. Yeah. So you're in zero dating apps. Okay. Is our time up? Yeah. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things.

With Sean and Andrew. A podcast all about couples. And the things they go through. Today we have one of my favorite guests I think we've ever had on the show. Maddie Jackson Selectman. You also have a raspy voice. I know. It is that.

time of the year you guys i hope last year shan was sick for like two months and i hope this one is far shorter yeah i feel like i'm on the up and up yes so mattie we sat down with in-person in-person interview uh love that and we talked to her about her book that recently released it's called lemons on friday trusting god through my greatest heartbreak so mattie's story is pretty tragic she was married for 11 months uh when her husband tragically died uh just three weeks shy of their first anniversary. We talked through the heartbreak. We talked through some very challenging questions that were even hard for us to ask. We don't know how to bridge the conversation to a place that you know brings pain, but it was really cool to see her perspective and her healing and kind of

her journey and how she explains it. I loved her perspective of I am forever married. It's just I might find someone else to share my life with until I meet my former husband and take my current husband, you know, to heaven with me. Yeah. And while this book is kind of about her experience of being a widow, she is so much more. So Maddie actually is the daughter of country singer Alan Jackson, one of my personal favorites. She's also a restaurateur. She's also, what do you call the people who are good with wine? Somali. That's right. That's right. We talk a little bit about that. And she is just very interesting in general. She has an organization. that she works with currently called Nashiville, where she helps local Nashville women kind of find

their purpose and get back on their feet when things don't go well. And you can find more about that. We'll link it down below. And she has also taken on, I don't think intentionally, she's become almost an ambassador for widows in talking about how to kind of build a community around them and build education and knowledge and support so people don't have to feel alone. Yeah. And I learned a lot. I mean, so rare I feel like to find a widow her age and with so much wisdom. I mean, I really respect how she's approached and kind of responded to this tragic incident in her life, which really seems like she's learned from it and has progressed through it. And she was gracious enough to come on the show and share this with us. And hopefully you learned something as well. If nothing else, I feel like maintaining a positive attitude, I think due to purpose is what I learned. And she does a great job at embodying that. So anyway, if we're going to find out more about Maddie and what she's up to, including her book called Limons on Friday, we'll link it down below as well as links to her social media profiles.

But without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into this one with Maddie Jackson Selectman. Maddie Jackson Selectman. It is a pleasure to have you here. You've had a busy week. This is. Yeah, it's been a busy week. I'm glad to be with y'all. Thank you for joining. How many interviews have you done this week?

I would have to ask my very talented publicist in the corner over there, but it is a lot. A lot. Yeah. Go ahead. I would say you went from the 700 Club to this, which makes me feel so good about myself and also concerned as to why you're here. You know, I've always considered myself an onion, so I just want to hit all the markets, come from all the angles. So I'm pumped to kind of do something a little more fun. I didn't know. onions did that.

They kind of just bounced around. They're versatile. Yeah, there's multiple layers. Is that not what that means? I don't know. I'm choking on water. I do want, are you good? I just went down the wrong fire.

No, we're live. This is staying in here. That is my worst nightmare. This is the best intro we've ever done. Yeah. I do want to, I was watching the Today Show interview you did last Friday. Tuesday. Last Tuesday.

My favorite part, no offense to you, was your mom. Oh, it was the perfect ending to the segment. She was in the background filming herself, watching herself at one point is great. I feel like you both understand that. like your mom did the same thing do the same thing like she felt like an idiot she was like i think people think i've never left tennessee and i'm just a redneck in new york city i was like no they think you're a mom like what else would you do i will say a little fun story about a mom this past weekend we were with lexie she got engaged this weekend oh congrats but there was a professional

photographer there and a videographer and it was so cute to look at her mom who had her own camera taking her own pictures and at one point Lexi was like mom we have a photographer but it's just a mom thing she's like got to put him on Facebook so our friends can see immediately so I get it yeah so I'm judging our week versus your week this past week so you uh had a book launch you've been on upteen interviews you wrote a song racing in the dark um and our week was how many times did we get thrown up on by the kids dozens several dozens yeah um honestly what a epic week. Can you just give us the rundown of everything that's happened? I can sing the song if you'd like me too. That'd be perfect. John's going to play the mandolin. She just learned that was an

instrument. This was your first song you ever wrote? Yeah, it was. Wow. That was pretty cool. I mean, all the, all the book stuff and the promotions and just, I don't know, all the media, like, that's so overwhelming, like, in a great way. You know, it's just like, it feels even more surreal because I wrote all of this during COVID and truly had never met any of my editors or publishers in person until I did a launch party last week. So it was all just Zoom. And to be totally honest,

until I held that in my hand like a month ago, it just sort of still felt like a word document on my laptop, you know, even with the year and a half of work that's gone into it. So for all of this to be real and actually doing interviews with people and getting to go to New York and sit with y'all and just all the things. that have happened, it sort of felt like, oh my gosh, wow, this is actually real.

This isn't just something that I did to, you know, heal my heart on a computer. And so to do all that was awesome. And then, you know, the song's a whole different level of just crazy because I don't play music and I don't sing well enough to do anything besides karaoke. So I am not singing on the song. I was about to say, I thought that was you. I don't know if there's, I don't know if I can believe that. I mean, karaoke, I can rock.

So like, don't mishear me. I'm not terrible. It begs a question. I was saying, have you ever done karaoke to one of your dad's songs? Yes. Yes. Many times. What's like your go-to?

I do neon rainbow a lot. Chase's that neon rainbow. That's your go-to karaoke song. No, no, no, just of dads. I've done that multiple times. You know, his octave is a little low for me. I'm much more of a Miranda Lambert gal. Okay.

Yeah, I can do her pretty well. She's my go-to. nice um question about this week though diving a little bit deeper just jumping in um it's a huge huge week it's like one of the biggest weeks of your life you have your book out your song out all of these things it's a celebratory week but is it a hard week it is i think you know it's been a long time coming anticipating all this and the way that i've sort of described it because i've i've tried to be very intentional to not just race through all of this because I think my my tendency would be this is awesome let's do more let's push forward and for good reason because it's exciting

but also to sort of try to not feel the depths of the hard stuff and so I have tried you know on the days where I don't have anything going on or an afternoon where I don't to really pause and be like check in and see where I'm really at and it's tender is sort of the word I have used like it feels kind of like a scar tissue like i'm very aware of the reason that this is happening in the story that i've put out into the world and but it feels i feel more grateful than sad about it at this point it's just that's the only thing i know to say is that it's tender but i feel so grateful that even just three years after losing ben like it just mat like i see this and i'm like this matters like our marriage will always matter now because it will help other people

get through whatever their heart sees in it. So, like, I feel really grateful and a little, a little fragile, but mostly, like, man, I'm so glad that this pain has a purpose. And I can see it and hold it and, like, hear from other people what it means to them. In writing the book and having the launch and it being such a long process and being three years out, does it ever feel like you're two steps forward and one step back? Oh, yeah, the whole time. Totally. Yeah. That's what's, I'd, I'd say early on, like, that's what's frustrating about grief, no matter what it is that you're grieving, because it, I just, I went into, like, my first counseling session I talked about, and I legit thought, like, she could give me a list of, like, what to do. I was like,

can you just tell me what to do? Because I hate being here. I don't want this to last any longer than it has to, and I just, I'll do all the hard things. Like, I'll do, I'll do the emotional rehab, everything I need to do. I just want to get out of this. And it just doesn't work that way. Like it's not linear, there's not a to-do list, there's no boxes to check, you just do 24 hours at a time. And sometimes those are two or three steps forward and sometimes it's like eight back. But it just, you know, you do it one at a time and it gets a little easier with time. And you also get more familiar with how you have to hurt, right? And how to like work through your hurt in your way.

And that looks different for everybody. But it takes a while to learn that. And it's frustrating. What made you want to write the book? It truly just started as an outlet for me. So obviously, that is a songwriter. My mom wrote a book about their marriage that was a New York Times bestseller. I've always loved it, writing, reading, all of that, and studied it in college.

And I've honestly always wanted to write books. And I just never really knew what about. And this obviously wasn't the story I ever imagined or planned to put out into the world. but when Ben died it was really the only way that I knew how to process anything like I hadn't suffered really anything tragic in my life you know hard things but nothing you know of that degree and that just dismantled my whole life in that way because it really does especially when you're so young and I didn't know what to do like I didn't I had never been to counseling for anything I was just like I have no idea how to even like speak to myself about everything that

that I'm feeling and all the questions I have and like all the fears that I have. And so I just sort of word vomited everything because it's what came naturally to me. And it was about a year, year and a half later that I was reading another book by C.S. Lewis. And he wrote a little memoir after his wife died of cancer called A Grief Observed.

And I was reading that and I remember such a profound moment in something that he had written in there thinking, God, somebody really gets what I'm feeling. Like, this is what I've tried to say for so long, and I, I didn't know how. And so from there, I sort of thought, you know, what about all this stuff I've been pouring out on paper? Like, what if there's something in here that could make, you know, one more person feel as seen and unisolated as I did?

And so from there, sort of went back just through the journals and saw if any, tried to see, like, what was I writing? What were my big issues? what were some like hopeful moments I'd had and sat down with all of it and tried to get it into somewhat of a format to like pitch to a publisher and we did and you know God just kept like opening doors and from there you know three years later it's a you can get protein at home or a protein latte at Tim's no powders no blenders no shakers starting at 17 grams per medium latte Tim's new protein lattes protein without all the work at participating restaurants in Canada

book. Wow. Is C. Louis, your favorite author? He's mine. Definitely. Yeah.

Yeah. Screw tape letters, I feel like. It's phenomenal. It's so good. Yes. And the great divide is awesome. Yeah, it's all great. I think the Chronicles and Art.

Yeah. Chronicles and Arne. Like I think don't do, his writing is incredible in that, but also he has so many deep philosophies like he describes in screw tape letters, the human condition, unlike, I'm not kidding. He goes through like literally. Oh. yeah however many like two dozen of like hey you're going to experience this and i was like oh my gosh

yeah freaking going through it's insane insights like yeah and then grief observed obviously being the one of his going through his grief it just he like he just put words i mean you you love him like it's it's somehow so profound and descriptive and literary but also it's just like you just said like point blank it's such a clear picture of humanity that you're like wow like you're the number of people in conversations you must have had with people in your life is astronomical because you just get it. Do you think that'll be the fact that this book has on people? People read it and be like, wow, this embodies my experience.

I hope so. I mean, that's my hope. You know, I've told friends and family and myself and the editors from the beginning through the whole process, I don't want this to get pigeonholed into a book about death. Like that's not what it is, even though we all experience that. You know, with our loved ones, it's really just a book about being honest about your pain and like how to live into really hard hurt, but also not let go of hope, like in the same moment. And that's sort of talking about those rhythms, I had to learn how I had to do it.

And, you know, my tendency would have been to run past the depths of the hurt and stay busy and do things and not take the moments to really sit in the hardest times where, you know, I wish he was there he should have been there it would be to just kind of blow past him and like the real healing doesn't happen until you go to those places but if you go to those places

and stay you're in despair like you have to hold both at the same time so that's what I hope people get from it is that no matter where you are like don't dismiss your pain because that's not helpful and that denies your humanity

but also don't like sit in it and know that you don't have to stay there either So, I mean, my story is really just a vehicle for hopefully a place that people can find hope and resilience and sort of like refill their tanks when they're feeling empty. You talk about in your book and then in all of your interviews, how your faith has like pretty much gotten through everything. And we were talking about this prepping for this interview of you always speak in such a positive way of like my faith will get me through this. and we also talk about mental health a lot in whatever in whatever capacity but how do you allow yourself to go into the dark you know valleys of of pain and sorrow and grief but still

come out of it does that make sense yeah without without being positive because you don't want to go into your deep valleys and be positive about it because it is painful how do you get there and come back. I think the biggest shift for me and the thing that I had to learn how to do is not try to fix those moments. Like I hate negative emotions. Like I am a glass half full all the time. I'm a forward thinker. And I really, I'm a strong person. Like I really can handle a lot. But I think the fact that this was something I could absolutely never quote unquote handle on my own forced me to be like the emotions are not there because you need a solution the emotions are just there because something awful has happened and like that's okay and so it's not that you're really

taking those steps back when you go to the depths it's just you're really being honest about how awful your situation is and you know as long as you go in with I'm here to I use the word I think in there kind of purge something out not to just wallow then you know that you're going to come out stronger on the other side. I mean, y'all are athletes. Like, physical therapy is literally forcing the part that's injured to work, right? Like, that's kind of what it is. It's like you go in knowing it's going to be painful, but you push the part that's broken because you have to build it back. So I think as long as you can have that sort of mindset and not like I'm here to make all these bad emotions go away, but you're here to understand how to walk

through the bad and then know that on the other side you're sort of rebuilding that hope muscle or like positive muscle or faith muscle or whatever you know you need to rebuild that's such a powerful concept and I think in some ways like the key to life of being I mean it's like this concept of being present being in the moment of whether it's a positive moment or a difficult moment being there experiencing that to its full capacity yeah as you have and then learning through it. Understanding that it's a phase, right? But like taking time to stop and reflect,

I was just thinking we're in a phase now with young kids, with Jet, who's four months old now. There's so many positive things that we're experiencing. Like it just, it's unlike any other, you know, baby cuddles are just like awesome. And like you'll put his, you'll put your hand on him when he's sleeping and I'll like grab it. Like he's the only thing he ever wants. And part of you is like, oh, I'm going to remember this forever, right?

I'm going to remember this moment forever. But fast forward two weeks and that's such an easy thing to forget. And so I've been really trying to practice this like reflection of that was so special. Like I want to write that down, record it. And then I can. I just think people try to jump through phases too quick and don't take time to step back and appreciate, you know, where they're at for better, like for better for worse and whatever they're learning. no i'm so glad to hear you say that and that has been one of the greatest um sort of changes in

me as a person that i've experienced through all this is like i just said i'm a very forward thinker i'm like okay i've achieved this that's great like what's the next thing and i think almost on the opposite end of the spectrum of like these these really rich moments of joy even though your lives are chaotic right now they're just so full of joy on the other side of that you know when joy seems totally absent for a little bit, you want to get out of it quickly, obviously. But I will say, you know, when you lose your spouse and especially so young,

there is, at least for me, there is this very grounding, just necessity of learning to be present. Because for a while, I mean, everything about my future, it sounds dramatic to say was erased, but it really was. Like I had no idea what it was going to be, you know, from there forward.

And to an extent, I mean, I still don't, but really none of us do. And I think in a really, you know, heartbreaking way, death does bring us back to the present because it's really the only thing that we can count on. And the good that's come out of that is exactly what you're talking about. It's sort of a patience with the moments that are frustrating and just a slowness of life that I didn't have before and I'm really glad about that. With grief and tragedy

comes an influx of people who have their opinions and their comments and they're trying to help you. I feel like, two-part question, for the most part, society tries to paint this picture about like grief and loss as let it go, move on, you know, heal and just move forward.

what would be your response to that? And then the other side of that is what was the hardest thing to come from your loss, if that makes sense, with the people who came out of the woodworks? Yeah, I mean, everyone will have opinions. I will say to my community, especially in my close circle,

they, somebody else that I talked to last week, I was just singing their praises. They really could not have loved me better and, you know, been more present for me. and, you know, just taken anything and everything that I said to heart gently. I mean, they really did an amazing job. And somebody who I told that to last week was like, it sounds like your people accidentally did this perfect.

And I was like, you know what? That's exactly what happened. They did accidentally do this, not perfect, but extremely well. And so I'm very grateful for that. But I have since gotten to know a lot of women who've been widowed really young, and it breaks my heart because I don't think that's the normal. experience like i think i had a really just blessed outlier experience and i know from other people it just creates divides i mean heartbreak and strain it's just such a strain on all the

relationships you know that you're a part of and that your loved one was a part of and it's a very hard thing but i think maybe in those circumstances what i've heard from other people in what I've seen work is you know you just have to find your safe kind of inner circle and the people who really love you and believe how you do and prioritize things the way you do and the people who are you know more gracious in general because like this whole process takes a ton of grace like from other people for other people for yourself because it's not easy you always screw up your patience and your you know wit is really short and people always say things that they don't mean and so i think you know if you do have a lot of people coming in with

opinions that may not be helpful may insulate yourself with a few people who you really trust and just keep your eyes on them i mean it's like i can't imagine all the comments y'all get on social media it's like it's not helpful to it's not helpful at all to see them all you know there's people that you go to for sound you know direction and counsel and like safety and so i'd say you know, build your little team and trust them. And it doesn't really matter when anybody else thinks. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best?

You are. I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. I want to take a quick break

and like jump back a little bit before we keep going down this road what was your favorite date you ever went on with him oh my god I'm so embarrassed the first one that came up because it's actually not a date and it's so embarrassing but I think I'm going to share it because it's funny the real answer is

well they're both funny one is he was a big hunter Ben was a big hunter. So grew up outdoors. You know, dad had farms. He's a big fisherman, but he never really hunted. So that was sort of new. When we were engaged, he took me turkey hunting, which in retrospect was probably my favorite

because he was just so happy in the moment. I was completely whining and negative in every way. I put this stories in the book. And we ended up, like, finally getting there. I mean, my, like, my mood is just plummeting by the second. Like, it's freezing. It's dark. Like, we've gotten up and walked around a million times.

Also, turkeys are terrifying looking birds. Like, they're really scary. But we ended up what they call, like, shooting a double. And, like, we literally got two at the same time. And he was just, like, over the moon ecstatic about, yeah, it was insane. Like, he was holding a phone with his left hand and a gun with his right hand and, like, filming the whole deal. You shot one, he shot one. Yeah.

At the same time. It's on Instagram. I can show you. That's amazing. It's wild. That's amazing. Yeah. So that was really fun.

And it's a lot sweeter to me. Now, the funny one, which you may not want to hear and you can edit out, is, was totally accidental. So I, I'm a sommelier, I had a wine bar here for a couple of years. I'm glad you got it up. Because you've got wine over there? We do. Shut up. Hey, you know this one?

I've met that guy. Casual. Okay. Well, we have that one. He's so cool. We have this one. Beautiful, Artemis, classic. Okay, we're not as excited about the Artemis.

Okay. No, it's better. Now, it's just the vinkies, like, kind of a small production deal. I don't know what this is. We just pulled three random ones. We're like, I wonder if she thinks he's better not. I don't recognize. Oh, okay.

You stumped me. It might be too early, but if, well, I don't, maybe not. It is one PM. I mean, it's technically never too early. So, yeah. She's easy. Okay. I interrupted the Somalia, but go ahead.

So, anyway, I, when I was opening salt and vine, I was just very busy, like working 15, 16 hours a day, whatever. got a stupid traffic ticket just like got stuck in the middle of an intersection moped cop gave me a ticket whatever didn't think about it because i was working all the time i also am the world's worst at checking the mail like i actually thought about it no joke probably like three or four months after ben died and i was like no one has checked my mail because i never checked the mail so long story a little less long i had gotten like a date to go to court and like pay the fee whatever didn't get it because it was working all the time flash forward like

two months. He's coming to the restaurant. It's Friday night. We're like going out to Ashland City because it's his uncle's like retirement party or something. So he's at dinner and drinks. I'm in the car. We're driving to Ashland City in the dark. I don't have any idea where we're going, but we're coming off the highway. And it's one of those where it's like 65 to like 35 in about 50 yards. Dang it. So we pull over and the cops actually very nice. And he was like, did you know you're going how at 25 over the speed limit and i was like honestly no told him the whole story i have no idea where we are he's like pull over let me just make sure like there's nothing weird on

your record and you just slow down and you're in town and i'll let you go it's great so it pulls over he's back he's like i think you need to walk over to the back of my car and i was like can i ask you why and he was like do you know that you're driving on a revoked license and i was like no no physically gaffed so i think he believed me and i was like no can you tell me why And he was like, no, because it's Davidson County. So Ben's an attorney. So he's like trying to play Mr. Attorney and like has had multiple drinks at dinner. And I'm like, you need to just, you're not helping.

Yeah. And so anyway, the guy is so nice. And he's like, I can tell that this is really an accident. I can either take you in now or you can come back on Monday and book yourself in the Ashland City jail. Dang. So I'm like furious at this point because I had no idea, which is a stupid like stop sign traffic ticket. And now my license is revoked and I have to go get booked in the jail. So Monday morning is the very long answer to your question.

One of the most comical, quote unquote, we called it a date we ever had. He like got me at 8 a.m. Took me downtown. We reinted, like, reinstated my license, drove to Antioch to like get whatever I needed to get. Drove back to Ashland City. Got there, booked me in the jail. What? And then had lunch like on the county square in Ashland City.

Because he was like, you had a really bad day. Like, can I at least get you lunch? And I was like, I hate you and I hate everyone. But yes. Wait, how long were you behind bars? I was not technically behind bars. It was just to be fingerprinted. I love it.

It's like, babe, drop me off at jail real quick. Yeah. And the best part was we had our lunch or quote unquote date. I went to work. And then I came home that night at like 11 something. He had gone to bed and left me a post-it note, sleep tight, my little fugitive on my side. And I was like, I hate you.

That is really sweet, though. So way longer than you bargained for. But it was the first thing I love that. Sleep time, my little fugitive. Yeah. I want to hear the engagement story as well. Do you mind sharing? The engagement story was, honestly, a little more low-key, like, in a wonderful way.

Like, I just didn't want a big thing. And, I mean, the only pictures we really have are, like, selfies we took on our phones. And we were, like, in flannel. And it was right when the leave started to change here because he loved outdoors and was so excited about that. And he borrowed a convertible of my dad's and, like, called the restaurant and, like, shifted everybody's schedule so I didn't have to go to work that day and we took like a picnic drive down Natchez Trace and I think danced to George Strait on a cell phone and like popped a question and had champagne and just hung out there and we sit we saw all our family

that night and everything but dang that's special it was cool that is really special okay I have a couple more questions going back into present day which is always hard I also can't imagine you're talking about this every day especially for the past week it's just it's a very high low situation you support widows a lot and they're healing and how they have a community now where they can talk to and not feel isolated and alone how did you find that community and how did you first for a lack of a better way to say it digest the term um so the community part is interesting because when after I closed Salt and Vine, which was probably three months before Ben's accident,

I was approached by a friend of a friend who now is my co-founder with a women's merchandise brand called Nashiville. And we started building that summer, like right after I had closed Salt and Vine. And she's an adoptive mom, so she wanted to use the brand to give back to adoptions, foster care, birth moms, that kind of thing. we wanted a couple other missions to give back serving women and so we at that point went to

scripture and it says over and over take care of orphans and widows and i mean at that point i was 28 she was 30 and we were like i have no idea what that's going to look like but we'll figure it out like i feel like this is something we're supposed to include and then we added human trafficking because ben was a district attorney for davidson county and he worked a lot with the drug and trafficking courts. So we started doing all that and hadn't yet found a nonprofit organization serving widows really. And then Ben had his accident. And then when he died, we ended up delaying it a little, but we launched probably a month and a half or two months after he died. And so I remember literally calling Brooke as my co-founder from the hospital and being like, I can't do this right now,

but you've got to find a group that serves widows. And she called back and she was kind of like, there's good news and bad news. The good news is I found one. And she was like, the bad news is there's almost nothing to choose from. So there really isn't very much out there for it. So we partnered with Modern Widows Club, which is a national organization, and they have chapters all over the country that serve women locally who've been widowed. And then have since, obviously, connected with several others who I love and we work with. But that's sort of how it happened. And the founder of that has been such a mentor to me. And then, you know, as time goes on, it's just sort of organically you end up meeting more people and this person

knows this person and all of them call at a club you don't want to be in, but I mean, that's really what it feels like. So that's been incredible. And even today, you know, I get calls and text more than you would know, especially about young women. Like I had coffee with a 27-year-old young woman last week who's like a friend of my sisters from Texas or something. And she was in town for a wedding and it was the first one she'd been to since her fiancee died. And we sat at Starbucks and just like I just validated everything she was going through and I remember thinking whoa I didn't ever imagine me being on this side of the table and like how powerful that is so it started through Nashville but it since has grown just so naturally because

I just think we connect with each other in our pain you know which I hate is true but it is true and because I'm rambling I don't remember the other thing you asked no you answered at all okay hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure this fall get double points on every qualified stay life's the trip make the most of it at best western visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions what does the support of that club look like is are there unique strategies or techniques used to help that group yeah it's definitely like any sort of group sort of therapy or rehab model but they focus on everything they do obviously mental emotional spiritual health and have counselors and sort of experts speak into all that they have a whole like kind of curriculum or guide about how to deal with all the financial ramifications of being with you know so it goes from everything from yeah mental emotional to like really practical and you know they have certain um sort of speakers that

deal with if you have young kids or you know all the list goes on and on so it's it's really it's cool it's pretty all-encompassing and if they don't have someone who can help serve a certain woman in a certain way they just outsource it and find it wow yeah you talked about earlier how when the accident happened you pretty much you're forced to live in the present a friend of mine really close friend of mine that I kind of grew up with um lost her husband it was not even a year after they got married to stage four cancer and fast forward they've been she it's been about 10 years since and she's gotten married she's had three babies and i will never forget her wedding they actually honored him at the wedding and to see her now husband he gave a speech

to him at the wedding his family was there and it was actually his dad that walked her down the aisle. I know future is pain just because it can mark a transition of not forgetting, but to a certain extent, moving to the next chapter, have you allowed yourself to look into the future yet? Or are you still in the healing process of, I want to stay present? Yeah, it's definitely both. I mean, it's definitely both.

So I hear that story. And it just makes me hopeful. I mean, I've had to, that's why I told this woman at Starbucks two weeks ago. I've had to find those women in my life who I can look where they are and I can look to the stability they found or if they are remarried or if they have had kids and just the things that are still on my heart and are still dreams of mine to remind myself that they're possible. And so that's super encouraging to me and like all of the things that you just,

described are things that I've thought about, you know, at a wedding again, because it is the whole trick. It's the whole balance of you're never moving on, but how do I move forward? And, like, how do I bring someone along that, in all honesty, I'm always going to love if in when I fall in love with someone else? And, like, that I don't have an answer for yet because that has not happened for me yet. But it's something, it's one of the scariest things to think about. And I, a good friend of my mom's, one of her best friends, was widowed in her mid-20. She was married to a NASCAR driver. And she's been awesome for me, and she's 25 years out now or whatever.

And I remember her just saying, I know it doesn't feel like you can, but you really will be able to love two people. The way that you love two kids or both your parents or two friends at once. And the right man will give the speech and will honor it and will carry it along with you. just part of your story. I wanted to look up some numbers. There's 13.7 million widows in the U.S. And 11 million of million of those are women. Which is wild to think about.

And I'm just, you know, thinking about the impact that your book will have directly on and can potentially have on that number of people, which is so fantastic. But the great thing is, too, this is not just about your specific situation. it's really about, as you said, your process of grief and sharing that story and how can I apply that to my life and her apply that to her life. It's powerful. But tell us about the title, Limons on Friday. Yeah. So that came out of like those original journals, just kind of like word vomit journals. And I guess at some point I just remember like the old silly old saying, right? Like make lemonade out of lemons like when life gives you lemons. And I just remember thinking like that's not possible with this. Like there's no way. I can make something good come out of this. But my biggest fear and truly like boldest kind of prayer the whole time was like just make my pain matter. Just give it purpose and I can do it.

Like I can walk this if this is what you have for me. Just make it matter. And so that's sort of where it started is like, all right, if something quote unquote sweet is really going to come out of this, like it's got to be in God's hands because I can't do it. and then the Friday part came to like you said it my faith has carried me through all of this it's like I remember trying to hold on to the hope in the really deep dark moments and being like

I know you know God's going to make all things new and like I know he redeems everything for us when we give it to him and how do I hold on to those things that feel as like exciting and hopeful as like resurrection Sunday but really when we live this life man we feel like it's Friday like and we're sitting there watching you know this like the decisive did this man who said like I'm going to bring you the kingdom but we're watching him die and so how do I believe the truth about all those promises when I'm looking at something really really hard and so that's sort of the two sides of that but it just comes back to the world is broken and how do we honor our pain but also hold the hope at the same time

is this your engagement ring yeah wow that's cool how tall did you say you were five six It would be unlike Andrew to throw in, to not throw in just some random strange question. No. It's usually, yeah. I'm not going to tell you my weight, but we can make it like, I'm O positive. This is my natural hair color. That's great. Favorite wine.

Oh, oh, yeah. Of those three? Do you have your own? I have a very big champagne girl, like anything sparkly. Okay. I don't get it. I'm not going to lie. I know, but when you do get it, you'll never go back.

Really? What is there to get? I don't know. I just love it. It just is happy. You feel like you're always celebrating. That's how I feel about mayonnaise. Oh, huh.

You bring up mayonnaise. Wow. He puts mayonnaise on his Thanksgiving turkey. Do you know what's funny? Okay, I have a mayonnaise insider that you probably know then. What? If you broil lobster tails in the oven and you do mayonnaise, like cut it open and do the mayonnaise, they're like the juiciest you'll ever have.

It won't taste like mayonnaise, though, because I don't like mayonnaise. I was hesitant, but it's pretty good. We're going to have to broil lodgerna. It's like the turkey. I've only done it one time, but I stole the trick from a friend

and it totally works. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to steal this question from him. This is one of his go-toes in any group setting of any kind or if he meets someone new. What are you most excited about right now?

I am really excited about Christmas. I know that's a lame answer, but I just told Jacqueline when we were driving up, I was like, I can't wait to drive around and look at the lights. And I can't wait to like, I don't even care about gifts. I'm like the worst gift giver. Like I'm thinking right now with the shipping delays, all my people will get something in February.

I don't know. I'm right there with you. I haven't started. Yeah, it's sort of with the slowdown, like the life slowdown thing. I love Thanksgiving and Christmas more than I ever have because just the hectic mess of it doesn't really, like I don't really care anymore. So I'm pretty pumped about that. And I'm glad to say that because they were. the absolute hardest

for the last several years and they still are but yeah I'm pumped about it have you gone on dates yes how is that let me tell you

it's it's not hopeful out there oh no in the mail department I mean I don't know like just let me set the scene though because I didn't until about a year ago and I started feeling like ready and a couple friends were like oh friend of a friend

I'll set you up and I was like well thank goodness that's yeah at least I'm not on hinge you know yet so um that happens very lackluster in every way and then pandemic hits so I'm like come on yeah 30 year old widow like everyone around you is either married having kids or not divorced yet and well I'm going to get on at a dating app in a pandemic you can't go do anything that's what I mean by hopeless is like god I know like you have someone for me but it's real hard to see that right now I will I will, I am curious, though. Is dating hard?

Yes, but. Did you just answer? I did. I answer my own question. I answer my question. But I would imagine within the dating process, you found, you found what you love. You found your guy, you know? Do you find yourself looking for your guy?

Or are you trying to look for something completely different? That is such a good question. and this is where I'm super grateful for those mentors that I kind of have now and they all have sort of different answers but that was a fear of mine because Ben was a very big personality and just like generous and excited

and passionate and kind and I'm thinking I go on these first several set up dates and I'm like are these guys just this boring or am I just comparing them to him and I mean that's impossible not to do but so I kind of talk this through with some other people and the general, the best answer I got from them

was the best parts about him you will probably find in someone else and the parts that are different, you just hope will be a little better. Like you just hope that there will be more maturity or stability or whatever was lacking. And so I think that's really hopeful because for a minute I was like,

okay, I'm just never going to be that vibrant of a person again. And I think I started to believe that. And I, you know, I've met people that do have that. They have like the Ben thing a little bit. And that's really, that's really good. And I, I didn't expect that to be the case. So now I do believe that's possible.

So you're in zero dating apps. Okay. Is our time up? I, I, I did a bumble for a minute. And to be honest, I just don't, like, I can't, put the time into it that I think you have to have. You've got to be, it's like a full-time job, that thing. And I don't know.

You know, I'm impatient and it just feels a little. I'm not knocking it. I think it's a really good thing. I have a lot of friends that are happily married through all of that. I think with my story being so public and my family being public, I was hesitant for, I think, probably reasonable, you know, reasons. Absolutely. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a small track side.

So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.ca. slash Yannex. What's the book you must recently read? Beside your own.

I'm currently reading multiple books. I always read multiple at a time, just depending on my mood. How? Wait, that just registered. How? You line them up like one, two, three books and you just read the top line. I would get lost in the storylines. Well, I read a lot of nonfiction, so it's not necessarily storylines, but I just read one

called Gentle and Lowly, and it's about like the heart of Christ, which is so amazing, because it just makes you want to be like, you're truly the best friend I could have ever imagined. It was really cool. It's a short book. It's like not a hard read, but it's really dense. And then I honestly very seldom read fiction, but I am reading one called The Tattooist of Auschwitz. It's like about the guy who tattooed the numbers on everybody at the concentration camps. Dang.

It's, yeah, it's not light, but it's a really good story. I was going to say, you ever read any comedies? No, I'm just very dark person. I would actually love that. I was going to read that. Yeah. Recommendation to read the ruthless elimination of hurry. You're talking about your holidays.

I love that. You've read it? No, but I love that title. No, you'll love it once you actually read it. That's his recommendation to the world. Excellent. What is Maddie short for? Just Maddie.

That's it. M-A-T-T-I. How are you going to say, Are you sure? It's just a unique spelling with the two T's. Yes, it is. So you're not going to tell the story behind it. It was my grandmother's,

it's not a real exciting story. You also realize as parents, she doesn't name herself. There's a story behind it. Okay. Let's do the thing where we ask a question and then answer it ourselves. Yeah.

I like, I like, he's dating hard. He's dating hard. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay.

We'd like to close with if you we're going to give, based off your experience or advice that you've been given, one piece of marriage or relationship advice, Maddie. This is going to be tough, but what would that be? Can I have an answer with a caveat, like a subtitle? Yes. I remember when Ben and I were like doing premarital counseling and all of that, just the guy that was helping us through it saying at the very end of a session where I think we probably seemed

like deer in headlights kind of situation and him being like all this is important but like bottom line you want to come home at the end of the day and you want to build your life with a person who is fundamentally kind and I just remember that hitting so hard and being like well that seems obvious but on the worst days you you do need someone strong and you do need someone you know that you're physically and emotionally compatible with it's like but at the end of the day like when life sucks you need somebody who's really kind and the caveat and subtitle of that being for me what I learned even in the short time of our marriage is like forgiveness is number one and for what it's worth I think I needed it a lot more than he did but he was such a generous forgiver in a way

that I was more resistant to that and I think I cherish that so much now. Maddie, thank you so much for joining us. For those listening that want to check out Maddie's book called Limons on Friday, just recently launched. We'll link it down below. Also her socials and the song, Racing in the Dark, that her and her father co-wrote?

Is that fair to say? Which is really an awesome story about perspective change. Totally. It was what I took from it. But, and then a couple of to-do items, check out Nashville, or sorry, Nash-sheville. Yeah. Did I say that right?

Yeah. Um, I'll cook some lobsters broiled in the oven with mayonnaise. Don't forget to check your mail though. That would be the last. Yes, I will check the mail. Put that in your calendar. I do regularly now. Okay.

That's a good habit to form. Um, anyway, thank you so much for the time. It's a pleasure to meet you. Dude. Yeah. I'm glad to be with you. Do you say dude? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. I didn't accidentally. I don't know. I love that. No, she said. I have a lot more. I thought I thought I heard it earlier and I was like, okay, I just want to make sure it.

You know, it's funny that it's like, I love it so much. So I'm like, yeah. My nickname, my nickname is bro. So dude is like fully within. What's the story behind bro? I guess I said it a lot. It's just bro. Yeah.

And I think he said it a lot. So his whole college football team called him that. When we started dating, I called him that, which is kind of strange. I was like, what's up, bro? I always felt weird being around the football team being like, hey, babe. So I was like, hey, bro. Got to speak the language. Yeah.

We can cut that part out of the interview. But anyway, there you go. Thank you.