Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - 98 what you need to do before starting dating, marriage, or a family: developing core values

Episode Date: January 13, 2022

This week on Couple Things, we got to talk with Robert Glazer. We dive into how developing core values plays a key role in your dating life as well as marriage, creating a family, and where you choose to live and work. He shares exercises you can practice straight from his book and helps us discover how these core values affect our daily life. Robert is also offering our listeners 50% off of his course on discovering and developing core values now through Sunday using code: COUPLE Go to https://www.robertglazer.com/core-values-course/ and use code COUPLE for 50% off! We are sponsored by these companies that we love. Check them out below:  Athletic Greens ▶ Athletic Greens Is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/eastfam. BYJUS ▶ Join the millions of parents who want a better learning experience for their children. Visit byjus.com/us to get your first class free, PLUS a $25 gift card for Roblox—one of the hottest online gaming platforms in the world. Modern Fertility ▶ Right now, Modern Fertility is offering our listeners $20 off the test when you go to Modern Fertility dot com slash EASTFAM. That means your test will cost $139 instead of the several hundred or even a thousand plus dollars it could cost at a doctor’s office. ANDD....WE ARE GOING ON TOUR!! Check out the link below to see if we are coming to a city near you in 2022! Click here to get your tickets now ▶ https://www.couplethingspod.com/ If you haven’t yet, please rate Couple Things and subscribe to hear more. Follow us on Instagram to keep the conversation going at https://www.instagram.com/couplething... And if you have suggestions/recommendations for the show, send us your ideas in a video format – we might just choose yours! Email us at [e-mail]. Subscribe for more! http://bit.ly/3rnOdNo Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Twitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/ShawnJohnson Snapchat! ▶ @ShawneyJ Follow AndrewsTwitter ▶ http://www.twitter.com/AndrewDEast Follow My Instagram ▶ http://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Like the Facebook page! ▶ http://www.facebook.com/AndrewDEast Snapchat! ▶ @AndrewDEast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Defender. With a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms and a waiting depth of 900 millimeters, the Defender 110 pushes what's possible. Learn more at landrover.ca. I mean, this is really where the rubber hits the road. Like, where am I going to live? Who do I choose as a partner? Am I going to this field or that field?

Do I hire this person or that? This is where the application of these values kind of. of manifest on a on a day-to-day basis what is up everybody welcome back to a couple things with Sean and Andrew a podcast all about couples and the things they go through I am nasly yet again you look like you just walked in from the street you got your purse your drink you're just like I did it's like mom life babe no I mean that in the best way possible yeah yeah I will say Your compliments haven't been on point recently. He actually told me the other day.

He's like, you look rough. And this is when I was taking care of our sick kids. And I was like, huh. Huh. No. Well, one of the things I was thinking about we could do on our tour as part of the whole experience is to do like a roast session with each other. And then you would roast me back. Is that a bad idea, do you think?

I feel like that could end badly. Okay. Well, we'll maybe scratch that. Yeah, because one of us will. say something that actually kind of like ooh kind of hit somewhere and you're like yeah you're not getting lucky tonight okay is that how it goes yeah you've never pulled that card on me so I love how you're just like you're just like pretending do you like that I've never pulled that card on you you're welcome Andrew thank you all right well let's talk about today's let's let's talk about today's

episode because it is this is a very unique episode in the sense that um we're talking about how to develop core values yes this was a great episodes definitely different than one we've done before he's a specialist within his field we aren't going to be talking about like the romantic side of like relationships like the dating but it's a very important factor within your relationship to have core values as individuals yes and then how um to find core values as a couple so robert glazier yes so let me give you background on my relationship with robert glazer i met him about a year and a half ago uh through i guess a men's group, for lack of a better term, and was just really impressed with his approach

to life. He's an incredible speaker. And his background as a business man is really impressive. So he's built a $20 million global business, which was recognized as the best place to work by Inc. Fortune Forbes entrepreneur and the Boston Globe. Should we go work with that? The best place to work. I don't know if, yeah. Should we go work for him? He was also selected as a number two small business CEO in America by Glass Door. So he's the founder and CEO of the company called Acceleration Partners, which is a marketing agency and recipient of a ton of awards. A lot of them culture related. And so I wanted to get Robert on our show because you and I talk a lot about what does it look like to have goals. And we're going to do a whole episode on goal setting and how Sean and I go about that process. But a part that it's very nuanced. It can be ambiguous is what are your values? So like as an individual, When you're going through the dating process, people always say, oh, you got to work on yourself first. Like, what does that mean?

You got to know about what you're striving and looking for in life. And a big part of that, I feel like, is having core values. And going from dating to marriage to now having a family, I want to be super intentional personally about setting a good family culture. And the culture comes from what values we have. So anyway, Robert has a course actually on how to develop core values. And we can link that as well. But I wanted to have him come and talk about the importance of core values and his process in developing these values from a personal family and business standpoint.

So I'm excited. And to give you guys an example real quick, because before you jump into this, I want you to have a better understanding of like why we thought this is important. When you are dating or you're married or you're in the engagement phase, you're going to get in fights. And you're going to get into moments in life where you're like, oh, do I really click with this person? and you're probably going to start talking and for example Andrew will be like well why are you mad why are you upset and a lot of times

it's really hard to kind of nail down what the root issue is yeah what did I violate yeah because is it really about him not doing the dishes is it really about him putting his clothes on the floor and when you set your values and when you set your goals

which we'll talk about in another episode it really kind of teaches your partner more and more about the foundational side of who you are as a person. And how you tick. Yeah. And those massive rooted core values actually tell your partner so many things. And if you can write those down and if you can do all these exercises that Robert's going to kind of teach you about in this episode, you can actually like find a lot of benefit relationship. And even in dating, because you can go into a date and be like, listen, This is what I'm about.

Yeah. If you don't agree with them, if at a foundational level, you don't agree with my values, then it's not going to work. Yeah. And this is just important, I think, from a setting the culture and kind of forecasting what it is you want your dating relationship or family relationship to look like. And then also helps verbalize and give you vocabulary when you are experiencing an argument to be like, hey, I didn't appreciate it when, you know, you were an hour of

relate to our appointment because that violated one of my core values, which is punctuality, whatever. Is it? That's just, do you want to learn that there? You're hilarious. Yeah. So we're excited to bring this episode to you. Robert truly is an expert and our goal is to try to provide you with as much access to these experts as possible. If you want to find out more about Robert and his course and what he's up to, we'll link information down below. But without further ado, that was the longest intro we've ever done. It was. Let's go and jump in this episode with Robert Glazer. All right, Robert Glazer, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you on. We've known each other for maybe a year, give or take, and this episode has been, I don't know, several months in the

making. We first started talking about it before we had our child, but I wanted to bring you on because you are an expert when it comes to talking about core values. And honestly, I've never heard of anybody develop a system as you have for how to create these core values. And so I wanted to get your perspective and bring you on the show so that we could talk about what does it look like to develop core values for your personal life and how does that affect when you start dating or get married or even create a family because family culture I feel like it's so often talked about but the foundation of how you actually get there is often skipped so thank you for coming on it's a pleasure to have you here thanks for having me it's one of my favorite topics so I'm happy to spend some time

chatting about it with you can we just talk from your perspective what is the the high level importance of having core values. Yeah, I mean, to me, your core values are like your personal operating system. And the analogy I always use is that I think a lot of, everyone has core values. A lot of them are formulated very early by positive or negative childhood experiences. I think formative experiences, that's what makes something important. And I think that most people have them, they just can't articulate them. They have a sense of when they're violated. And the analogy I used to describe it is like I think something doesn't feel right. It feels difficult. It feels wrong. It's setting off radar. It's kind of like you're driving. If you're driving a brand new

Porsche, let's call it, you know, down in a tunnel. And the lights were off. You're going to probably rub up against one wall. It's going to make a terrible noise. You're going to pull away. Car is still going to go forward. Then you're going to hit the other wall. And this is a lot of how we go through life because that to me is like a core value is being is being violated or you're running into the wall of a core value if we turn on the lights and we painted the lines you know the car is going to get through the tunnel but it's not going to be beat up on most side so i i think ultimately too core value is the ultimate decision-making algorithm for for most important decisions in life so if it's a feel thing and you can't articulate then you can't really apply it to help you make

those decisions and choices. And I think that's where a lot of us gets stuck making, you know, decisions that are really not the right ones for us. Meaning you have this sense of like, oh my gosh, this person makes me feel bad or disrespected, but I can't communicate to you why or I can't communicate to someone else why and take that to apply moving forward. Yeah, we'll get into this down the line, the diagnostics. But one of the things that I like came up with as part of figuring this out, and I can tell you the story of how I got to there. But the test, of a core value is envisioning that you're talking to someone at a party that embodies the opposite. And it should literally feel like kryptonite. It should be like, I got to get

away from this person. I don't want to talk to them. Hence our joke before they started about if that person lives with you, then that's probably a problem. Right. So one of my core values is respectful authenticity. So if I'm sitting there talking to someone who's, you know, passive aggressive and disrespectful, like I am going to be like they are going to be just triggering cortisol within me. In fact, I do this test a lot. When I think someone thinks they know what their core value is, I'll invent this avatar. And I'll say, like, Andrew, so how would it be if you were at a party or you met a person and they were like this? How would you feel? They don't even need to answer me. If I just videotaped their body language and their face, they get like tense. They're like

that. I don't like that person. And again, some of these things are not, I think, some of them are ostensibly good and bad, right? Like someone, you know, if generosity and someone, who's just stingy but some of them are not good or bad it's more of like you might have someone who's really independent and someone else who's really you know group and consensus building and otherwise and and they're just different approaches but they really you know those people rub each other the wrong way around that context they were talking about making a decision one person is just inherently like you just you trust yourself and you go at it and the other is no you should fundamentally get everyone's input before they just see that

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We'll also link it down below. What would you say is like the basic definition of a core value and the benefits of truly understanding what your core values are versus other people? Yeah, I think your core values are your, the things that are just fundamental. most important to you in life. And again, in that way, it's almost that instruction. The things that, like, are, they're true for you. They're unbreakable. They're the things that are most important to you, kind of your closest held beliefs and values in your life. And so again, most people, I think, can get in the ballpark of what those sort of are, but they haven't gone through the process

to be specific enough to then apply that to choices. I mean, this is really where the rubber hits the road. Like, where am I going to live? Who do I choose as a partner? Am I going to this field or that field? Do I hire this person or that? This is where the application of these values kind of manifest on a day-to-day basis. So this is actually something we talk about a lot with other couples and like a trend we've seen, which is when people are talking about dating or marriage or relationship or family, everybody has these preferences. They say, oh, I, I, want a guy who's taller than me or we just didn't like the same music. How do you differentiate what's important when it comes to just opinions and what's important when it comes to a value?

That's a really good question. And I can answer that and sort of I think like if I think about my wife. Like we have a lot of different interests like that are not not the same things that we you know, care about personally. But whenever it comes to the big things, we are always in alignment around those things. And so I think, you know, there's someone like the same music. Do they have the same close? Like, that's not, that's not a value, you know, how you treat people, whether you're fundamentally someone who is dependent or interdependent. Those are, those are much more of like, you know, kind of values. And so I think, I actually think it can be, I think it's a lull sometime to get brought in a comment, oh, we both like Pearl Jam, right? But we fundamentally see the world's a

different way. I mean, some of what's happened in the last year with COVID and all the political climate, I think people and friends on Facebook, and they're looking and they're like, wow, like, we just don't see the world the same way, right? I think it's really, I think it's been an actual values line for people being like, look, I, you know, this person told me they believed in X, Y, and Z, but I'm looking at what they're posting and saying. And it doesn't, align with that for me. And so, yeah, I think there's a lot of confusion that. I think it's easiest, easier to gravitate towards that surface stuff. You would need a lot of deeper discussions to understand kind of at the core, you know, again, is it someone, I think a core issue is,

is dependency or interdependency, right? There's some families like, if one believed in entitlement and in you know taking handouts from other family members and one believed in you go at it alone and we need to make our own way in the world right that's a much more fundamental difference than we you know one likes country and the other likes rock yeah it's interesting i i uh you just made me think of a experience i had jesus probably six years ago in new york and i've never forgot it but i was in a cab talking to this guy who had just recently got engaged and i was like oh my gosh this is before Sean and I were married. I said, how do you know she was the one?

And he said, oh, well, we have the same zodiac sign. And it's interesting because to certain level, like people kind of always choose partners, obviously, for kind of discrete reasons, I think. But a lot of people maybe miss the mark on, you know what, the zodiac. He's saying the zodiac sign is a good choice because he thinks it represents maybe a whole set of core values, but it may or may not, right? It could be, or could be just a superstitious or it could be just like a cognitive dissonance of making them feel better about the choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But nonetheless, if he was able to actually, you know, whatever your thoughts are on zodiac signs,

if he was able to actually say XYZ are my core values as opposed to kind of making the jump from if she's this zodiac sign, that means she's like XYZ. You know what I'm saying? Right. And break those down. And again, as I think about it, look, cards on the table, my wife and I argue a lot. We find a lot. We disagree on stuff. But when it comes down to a family thing, a core financial thing, like, I just, I really can't remember being on different pages about that stuff. Like, that's the stuff where I really think we, you know, we have the same similar view

of the world or just have the same core beliefs about what is right and what is wrong in those situation. So I'm going to tease the fact that we will be talking about how to develop these core values later on. But first, I want to kind of set the scene for how you're an expert in this area. And I'll give some high level. So Bob, Robert, what do you prefer to be called here, by the way? Anything about Rob, I always say. Okay. Robert has built this massive business in acceleration partners. It's been voted as the best place to work by multiple sources. He was selected as a number two small business CEO. He has this fantastic background in building company cultures and on top of that has developed his course. So that being kind of the high

level stuff, you know, you've talked about your passion for core values, but I'm wondering if there's anything you would add to that. Let me tell you the story. So I think it's probably you say five years for a while. So it's probably not seven years. You know, COVID's been a big blackout period. I went to this, everything that anyone usually reads on my bio, I will tell you as an achievement in my life was achieved after I had clarity on my core values. And just set the stage. So my core values are health and vitality, find a better way and share it, which is a very dominant one and why I am on this podcast and why I did this exercise with you. Self-reliance, respectful authenticity, which is a very kind of unique definition to me and long-term orientation.

all of those are probably tied in some way to something that we are gonna be talking about today. But I went to a very intensive leadership program that I thought was gonna be like, how do you become a good leader? What are the external things you do? And the first couple of days just broke people down, similar to probably like a landmark type content

of who are you and what do you stand for? And when I came to realize, I had a feeling like I was someone who's very values driven. I felt really strong about certain stuff and how important that was, but I could not clearly articulate my question core values. I had some stance of them and came out of this saying, understanding and this thing that I really need to understand my core values. And so I went Googling and looking and you find

some of these word lists, as you said, and some other stuff. And I just couldn't, it was kind of like Simon Sinek did with everyone. Like, you know, you got to know your why. But then there really wasn't a way to do that easily. Like easier something that kind of left everyone hanging, you know, and there are actually other people who developed archetypes and systems and stuff. that actually really work, but, you know, it's just not as easy as everyone says. And so I took me like six to 12 months, finding a bunch of different stuff, trying to read stuff. And I felt like I got these really good core values. And then as our company started scaling, we started creating this leadership program for our emerging leaders. And I determined, well, you know, this was so impactful

for me that I think the number one thing we can do is help people develop their core values. So I started to take the process that I went through. And after two, three or four classes of tinkering, like, I had it really good. Like we were having some incredible breakthroughs. Like people are really understanding how it affected their leadership, you know, communicating to their own teams. Here are my core values and what's important to me. You know, an example is that anyone as a leader who has some sort of trust as a core

value aspect of trust almost always interestingly had a violation of trust in their childhood as the reason for that. And they had to articulate that to their team that, hey, if you come five minutes late or you miss a deadline or whatever, like you might get permanently put in a penalty box in my world because those are actually all signs of like that I can't trust you. And that actually triggers something pretty deep for me because someone in my life abandoned me. And they might not have to go into all the why. I just, it's, you know, it's very interesting how this stuff to me is, is if you're going to show up as a leader in the world. A true authentic leader, you have to do it within your own value set. You can't

try to emulate what Andrew's doing or what anyone else is doing. And so, you know, we had done this across like four different classes. I feel like we had gotten a really good process. In the midst of this, I came out with my book, Elevate. I talked about the power of core values. I gave people some of these resources. But people are like, look, I'm in on this. I believe this core value thing. I don't know. I'm like, how do I do it? And I was like, well, it's not an easy answer. I can point you to some of these resources, but I've been doing this thing with my team. And so eventually I decided to take the content that we developed the team and open it up to everyone because it's not, it isn't something you can just do as part of a five minute discussion.

So that was the genesis, doing it for myself, seeing the transformation, trying to create a scalable process for our leaders, seeing how important was in organizations. and then saying, I feel like this now works to open up to anyone who wants to do this. Andrew put me through your course. And I remember sitting down thinking it was going to be like any other, I don't know what you would call them, but like the test out there where it's like choose A, B and C and I'll put you in the pocket of your like a group, your group B basically. Like a personality test. Like it's a personality test.

Where they're archetypes. Yeah. Definitely. Like the Enneagram, the love language, that like all these different things. And again, a trend within couples is all of these couples have taken so many tests trying to figure out how they can match themselves with a person based off their love language or their preferences or their enneagrams or Zodiacs. But it never goes into why. And you never have to really think about why. And you never have to think about how did I get here or why is my value like this.

And what I loved with your course was critical. Like you can take almost everyone and you can go. to formative childhood. I always say to people like around a certain value when it's super strong. I'm like, look, I want to be clear. And in a company context, you don't have to tell me the answer or, you know, I don't want to know. But is there something related to this from your childhood? And they will usually well up or something and say yes. And again, I'm not asking for the for the details. But if I say to someone who shows this trust is a core value and, and, you know, I say, did you have a violation of trust in your childhood? They're usually well up.

Look, imagine that in a marriage. So imagine that, you know, someone's in a marriage and they had a core value of trust and reliability. And they can't find their partner on a Friday night. And they're answering, you know, sketchy answers as to where they were. Like, that's going to really strike at something deep. I think the really, the huge benefit of that is, Andrew and I talk about premarital counseling a lot. And he didn't necessarily, our premarital counselor didn't necessarily have tests that we took. He dug into, well, why does that bother you?

Why are you like this? Why do you prefer this? And I feel like in going through your course and actually finding what our values were, it opened up so many conversations like you said of, well, why does that trigger you so much? And why is that such a specific value that is so important? And we had never really talked about that kind of stuff before, which is important. It goes deeper than I just like affection or I just like to give gifts. or whatever.

There was a great story recently. I think it was on Adam Grant podcast around, I think Tara Pino and her spouse, and they were talking about one of the core fights of their marriage. And one grew up in a household, and it was about waste and food. And there was always this fight around too much food at the table.

Did you hear this? No, but this is something that happens. When Adam went into it with them, you know, one grew up, in a household where if you didn't eat quickly, there wasn't enough on the table, right? And, you know, the other, you know, the other grew up in a household that was the total,

that, you know, didn't have enough resources and was always spending them sort of the wrong way. And so when they actually looked at it, it was one was like, look, I'm never gonna have my kid not have enough food on the table. And the other was about being responsible, you know, and spending. And so it was just this, it was a surface thing

of a deep value, you know, issue. you. And when they realized it, they figured out, look, you can order enough food so that, you know, there's plenty of food, but we will eat it the next day as leftovers, right? That is how they figured out like that the having enough versus waste values that they had and we're going to do it. Look, my wife and I have a have a real conflict around our wise, which are one of our values. Like, I like to figure out a better way and she likes to figure out the right way. Now, when the right way is the better way and we're clear like it's it's harmonious but we use this language she will say to me please stop trying to make it better or I need you not to we're going to do X today and I need you to

not make it better because you know and I will say like and she and my son actually both share the same thing it's funny like right way people are really great with it on like big decisions but they can't turn it off for like pizza versus Chinese food and when the two of them start with me on Friday what are we going to have her take out I'm like I'm not getting into best. Like, this is like, it's going to be an hour. Like, you guys figure out whether we're having pizza or Chinese food and let me know because I just don't care, you know, either way. The two of them go shopping and they come back with either 10 things because they couldn't decide. So they're actually, they're very indecisive about small things, 10 things they couldn't decide or nothing

because they couldn't decide. And I'll be like, just make a choice. Like, and so that's a point where, you know, awareness, you know, really helps. But to your point, again, these aren't set archetypes. I think I figured out a way to help people put actionable verbiage around deep, you know, feelings for them. How you word it is important to make it useful, this concept of testing it against the sort of, you know, the anti-value because that's the definition of a core value being violated should feel terrible, right? So when you simulate that, you get the reaction. That's how you get a sense that you're on the right path with that. Wait, I didn't get charged for my donut.

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That's byjews. That's B-Y-J-U-S.com slash U.S. We'll also link it down below. I'm curious. So you mentioned wrong way, or wrong might be harsh, but my old way of trying to answer the question of, hey, what are your core values? Because every business mentor I talk to or counselors, whether it's for personal or like marriage counselors or, and you mentioned Simon Seneck who wrote the book, start with why, which is fantastic but you're right it's always like what are your core values and then they actually don't know why it's not an easy like yeah exactly so every time i must have done this 15 times in my life where it's like you're i got to find my core values because everyone says it's

important so i go to google and say core values and then literally find this list exactly and so i'm like yep that one fits right that one fits right and i pick like 20 and then i'm like great i got that done. So it was great. Right. They're not distinct. They're not they're not you. And we talked about this. I really don't believe in one word values. Like I think there's a litmus test of things that I talk about on sort of how do you know it's a core value. And you're trying to almost rate yourself on it. I think like a performance review last month. And when you have one word, it's unclear what it means. Like a lot of people want to use integrity. In doing this exercise of people, you know, I have heard five different definitions of integrity.

You know, there's there's telling the truth. There's doing what you say you're going to do. There's living in harmony with the universe, right? People mean, so when you start saying like, what does integrity look like and feel like for you, you start understanding to them. And look, they should be like, it's the type of thing kind of like a company, the same sort of standard where each one should be really clear what it means to the point where you could almost do a performance evaluation on it.

And all of them should not be something, while some people could say some of them, you shouldn't find another person that has the identical ones, right? They should be unique enough. Like my respectful authenticity, like I really dug into that. That was just a unique thing for me around. It actually impacts all kinds of policies we have at our company around, you know, the need to be truthful with people.

It's similar to Kim Scott sort of radical candor. Like being truthful with people, but never being disrespectful in that. Like I think the authenticity of letting them know, like telling them the truth. There's a lot of people who just don't tell people the truth, you know, or they find a way to do that in a way that makes the people feel terrible about themselves. Like, that's always been a core thing. I just don't react well to people who are disrespectful or inauthentic, you know,

either sort of either side of that spectrum. So again, these are there. The key is how to put labels on them, how to make them actionable, how to make them useful and how to really make them something where you could say, like, I shouldn't do this or I, you know, move away from this person. I've had a couple of stories. I've shared one before. Like, I don't have a lot of regrets in life, but like people, you know, are very, like,

there was a, there was a family from whom my son was spending time with their kids. And I just, I just didn't have a good feeling about their judgment. and some of the things that I had seen at a high level. And, you know, one night, you know, they, we couldn't find them. They'd taken them somewhere, taking them from another place to another. Like, I was unclear whether they were drinking while they were driving in that. And I just, I was so mad at myself because I had that radar go off like months earlier. And I just, I just knew that this was not, you know, someone, but my son was my,

my child was friends with their kid and it was it was complicated but i i actually find like when you when you ignore those small signals on core values they they really come back in a much bigger issue my the question i was going to ask which is interesting um is after implementing your core value kind of system within your business and then within your family and your personal a life. Do you frequently see that polar opposite core values can't coexist very well? Or not even coexist, but like work together well. It's a great question. So it's kind of like, okay, so if there's awareness, you can work around and manage them, right? But imagine if, and so let's say I have five and my wife has five and one of those is really kind of buddy. Well, we're going to know that that's the point

where we do that, and we're going to have to use extra energy to manage around that. If you're working with that person or for that person or married to that person or partner or otherwise, and it's all five, like, that's going to be freaking exhausting. If you have the natural and opposite reaction and have to manage around all of those, like I just feel that that has a very low, not that you have to identify identical core values, but you have to not have opposite or incompatible values. Because, look, to that example that I gave earlier, let's imagine, you know, that, you know, Andrew is heavy on self-reliance and you are heavy on dependence. And there's a, someone in your family is about to live a big windfall, right?

There's going to be a big, this is not going to be a like Pearl Jam versus, you know, Garth Brooks discussion. Like, this is going to be, we don't live our lives like that or we should live our, like, you're going to be very. that's going to be a really difficult conversation if you have if you both have the viewpoint that no you know what like we earn what we earn and we don't like entitlement or you both have the concept of we love entitlement and the less work we have to do the better but but you can see like that's a that's going to be one of those you know someone's sleeping on the couch or somewhere else like that's not an easy one to get around because you're talking about fundamentally how how that impacts your family, how you want to live, the lessons you want to pass on to your

kids, right? That's a real cornerstone issue. So you made me think what you said about it needing to be a multi-word phrase, I think is so true. I just finished reading a book called the Business Secrets from the Bible by a rabbi actually. And he talks about how if you write down. So many interesting things about that statement. But I'll always. Yeah. So many. I was about to say interesting yes we're actually yeah we're having all in the show so i'm excited about that too but he says if you write down milk on a to-do list there's a million things that that could mean like is it put milk in your cereal instead of water is it give my child milk or is it go pick up milk from the grocery it's like if you need to write down the whole thing for it to be truly effective

which your uh you know evaluation also points to so now i want to move into your process for creating core values and what we just spoke about, which is a core validator, as you call them, is kind of the first step from my understanding. But walk us through the high level and then we can kind of get nitty gritty. Yeah. So, you know, the way I went about this is not dissimilar to some of the other, you know, tests out there that asks you the same thing in a different way to try to get a consistent response. And what I realized was it was these very high and low moments in your personal and professional life that ultimately determined a lot of the core values. Right. So what it does is I start by asking like six questions personally and professionally

around things that have, you know, gone well, gone poorly, highs, lows, and I have people you really write those out onto six different lists. And then what they do when that done is they sort of start to kill and combine them and look for for themes. And one of those is this sort of anti-question. Again, if you were frustrated at that time, then you're kind of looking at if that's sort of the negative, then what's the inverse of that? So you're basically looking at all of these things. You're sort of putting them together on lists. And then you're forming the themes or concepts. And then you're pressure testing the concepts. So that's the first order of mags do is like is make sure you have the right thing and that's what one of the

validator is and when you when you then you start seeing a lot of the same thing say a different way and this is where people tend to jump you know right to the words and you know that is um that's uh you know i think where they get a little tripped up because i first want to make sure that you have the the the right concept and so the the the way to do that a little bit is that's where the anti thing comes into play so if you think you have a concept and you say, look, all of these were about when I got to work on my own, when I got to do this, when I went on a trip and my parents let me go wherever. And it just, it feels like, but let's go back to self-reliance because I know that one well. It feels like

self-reliance. And you'd say, well, look, what does it look like when I have to rely on someone else or I have to be dependent? You're like really uncomfortable. Like don't like it. If you said, look, if I gave you a million-dollar inheritance tomorrow and you'd ever to work, you'd be like, oh, that's cheating. Right. I mean, you'd say, look, that's so this feels right. Then it's like, okay, we have the theme, but then how do we get to the wording? So I think a couple of the things I look at there is like, you know, it's got to be more than one word. So it's got to be a phrase. I found that what seems to work best is an adjective plus a noun or an adverb plus a verb and like a two to five word phrase that it has a distinct definition and point of view.

So you ask yourself, does the inverse cause discomfort? Okay, so yes, we might be down the right past. Can I use it to make a decision? Can I use it to objectively rate yourself on it? So that's what was the last month? So for me, you know, was I being self-reliant last month? Or was I focused on health and vitality last month? I could say, oh, I was or I wasn't.

Or someone says, hey, do you want to come on this awesome, you know, I got asked to bike 180 miles from London, to Paris, you know, two years ago. Well, that's a self-reliant health and vitality thing. It's a goal. Like, it's so many things. I was like, is that a true story? Yeah. So how do you go from London to Paris on bike? Uh, you bike down from London, down in the coast, like in the middle the night, and then you sleep on a barge for like three hours. And then you land in home to me and then you finish biking to that's sick. It's like 180 miles. But I was like, yeah, that sounds good. I'll do that. That's it meets a lot of checkbox. So it's this phrasing.

that's really clear. And so when I hear people say certain ones, I'm like, can you rate yourself on that? Could you say, I think about it, I did a good job. I did this well, not well, a little of it, a lot of it last month. And can I use it to make a decision, right? I think I have a core value of long-term orientation. Really easy for me to look back on last month and saying, you know, I really got way too focused in the short-term stuff. I'll off-sight a long-term thing. or someone says to me, hey, you want to do this investment. I say, well, it's a 30-day loan and it's 17% interest rate and that the window is going to close.

I'm like, that doesn't sound like long-term, you know, focus for me. Like, that's not where I should be putting my money. And I've learned that, you know, I'm much happier when I stay in those zones. And, you know, the question that was asked before, I think that was really interesting around family was I obviously allied a lot of my core values to my family. But I actually, when I figured these things out, for me, I realized I am the best in the service of my family when I'm doing things aligned to my core values, which I had to give myself permission to stop doing other stuff.

Like one of the things like I was a kid with ADD, I can't sit through class. Like if I'm not engaged, I'm not even in the room, right? Back to school nights. Like I'm not, I can't sit and listen to the teacher talk about what they're going to teach for 30 minutes. I'm not even in the room. And I had a lot of guilt around it. And I just decided, you know what?

I'm going to give up the guilt on that. Like the stuff that I do with my kids that is around health and vitality, that is around, I love going on the ropes course with them, the self-reliance about helping them plan their goals. I'm actually the best dad when I get to work on those things and do those things. And there's other things that my wife is so much better on.

It's more aligned to sort of her strengths and her values. And I had to sort of be like, I'd rather do few of these things really well, then try to do all this stuff for my kids that I'm not even, I can't, I can't pretend to really enjoy because I don't, I don't. Look, there's some things you have to do as parenting. Like I'm changing a diaper otherwise, but I'm talking about as they get older and we choose how to really invest and spend our time with them. Hit pause on whatever you're listening to and hit play on your next adventure. This fall get double points on every qualified stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western.

visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions that's so good so to drill down maybe we could walk through an example from sean and i creating values we took a half day and as as as valuable as this conversation is and as valuable as it is to put thought behind what your core values is i would highly recommend listeners actually doing this exercise and blocking out time in your calendar or I don't know, how much time do you recommend people take? Yeah, I mean, it could do the, you know, an hour and the first thing and doing it with other people's helpful. And again, I can tell you everything, but it really does, having this all together, like

there's no, I'm not hiding anything. There's no secret to really do it and give you the tests and the checks and the lists and to do it. The first process, you know, I mean, you'd have to watch the walk through for 45 minutes. So I, the content's about an hour and then I'd set aside an hour to start this process. And it's great to do with other people, and I don't know if you guys did this, but you can be like, look, here's my list. Here's this pile. Does this sound like me? Like, does this sound right? And look, who knows you better than your partner to answer those questions? Yeah. So again, we'll link the course for discovering and developing core values down below. But I'd love to hear more about your like how it went down and what your experience was. So I hope you forgive us. But instead of taking tangible sheets as you recommended and answering each of the, the six questions on one separate sheet. So you have six different pieces of paper.

We actually did it on a Google Doc. I mean, I technically did it on six different pieces of paper on a Google Doc. Yeah, okay, that's fair. Different sections, right. Yeah. So there's a question. And then what we did was we answered the inverse.

So like what, what do you mind if I ask a question? Oh, no, go for it. Run through like, yeah, one. Okay, so a couple of them. Like I said, yeah. One of the questions is in what professional roles do you do your best work? And so the way I went about it was I answered, because there was a couple things that came up to mind where I definitely knew for sure I did not do my best work.

And so I wrote an inverse list of this is where I did not do my best work. And then I wrote the actual answer. So this is where I felt I did my best work. And it is best as you said just not to overthink it and free form. Like your answers can be many as you want. There's no limit. And it can be a word or a sentence, but you're just trying to get them out because then you really start to. the patterns start to like really illuminate themselves and i was so skeptical about the patterns

revealing themselves but you were so right big to the answer i mean i will talk is i you call me and you're like so i don't know how it works i'm like did you actually go through it and you're like no and i walked you i'm like you actually have to try i know you talked about it afterwards yeah this literally to my point about actually doing the exercise i was like dude i love your course i love you have you on the show and you're like all right so what are yours and i like gave out these I didn't do it the first time. None of the method validator test. Yeah.

And then he was obviously like, you didn't do it. So then we did it though. And I'm freaking glad we did. So after you answer the question with all these situations or words, what we did then was we came up with the themes. Is that right? Is that the next step? Yeah.

And then from the, like you start saying you then pull from each list because remember, each of those lists are trying to get to the same thing in a different way. And you start grouping the answers from those lists into the theme so you start pulling the ones that all sound alike into new piles basically i was i was really shocked on mine i almost felt like every i felt like the entire thing was a theme i was like i'm really i've really strong opinions about one thing yeah yeah you do so in the in the question of in what jobs did i do my best work i wrote um in in high school classrooms in the football weight room

under a certain coach coach franklin who's not pin state right this is interesting these are are all very different types of answers, right? This is important, right? Those are not a consistent, you don't have to answer in a consistent way. Right. And I'm just, I was just free flowing. I wrote in our men's group and video editing. So then per your instructions, what the next step was, was again, finding the themes. And so I wrote down my, I asked a question, why is this where I found the best work was being done? So I said, there was always constant growth. You know, you take five minutes to evaluate what the, again, pattern is with all those. And I said, it's always in areas of constant growth where I'm connecting with people

more deeply. I'm experimenting with strategy. I'm being efficient with time and like feel like I'm maximizing that. And so from that list then, we came up with keywords, which were improvement, growth, variety, engagement, focus, and honesty. So from that, we then grouped. Right. The keywords helped you to summarize what the concept is, right?

The keyword is not the core value itself. It's just what am I talking about? This is such a good freaking course. And it's going to sound convoluted to listeners. But then you find groups from the keywords. And then from the groups, you're able to identify maybe what your core value would be. So for you would be like self-reliance or for me it was. Yeah.

And one thing I want to highlight because people make this mistake, the order is really important. Make sure the theme is right before you start polishing the the name or the title. A lot of people working on the title and it's not the right ones. You want to make sure like the theme on that is that is a core value. That's where you do the anti-test. And then you start saying, all right, how do I word this in a way that like I will never forget it and that it works for me? Gosh. Something that don't take offense to this, that you're not doing super well is what Robert has mastered, which is within the course. You've explained it in a way. It's a process that you can be skeptical of at first because it makes perfect sense,

but you're asking all these questions and you're writing out and you're thinking why. And by the time you get through it, it's like, wow, there's actually a theme to my life and a theme to like why I think the way I do. And it's, you've done an incredible job at it. And it's a really. Thank you. And a key point in what you're saying, it's all within you. It's all there.

It's just designed to bring it out in a way that's organized and clear. for you because you now when you look at it right you probably felt like this pattern like dropped down on everything you've done some of the decisions you probably made them correctly without knowing you made them or other ones you struggled with but you're like oh i get it that is the feeling a lot of people say it makes sense i i can see clearly i can now lay this map and i can see where i struggled i can see why this worked and why this didn't work but that all comes from within you it's not it's not from elsewhere it's just getting you to organize the data out of your head, right?

Because you know intuitively, Andrew, to your point, you know every situation. You remember deeply those things where you felt amazing or struggled or otherwise. You just hadn't done the work to put them all together to figure out what the commonalities were. Yeah, or been asked the right questions and then, you know, been in a situation where I was able to sit back and think about it. So thank you for providing the opportunity. And one thing I do want to hit on that I think you mentioned in your course, that I, I I feel so strongly about this in regards to setting your core values and also with something

like your goals where the first time we went through this, it felt super clumsy and awkward and I did it wrong. But I feel like there's so much value in going through it that first time. So then the next time you revisit it, you're able to kind of just, you have a better understanding and you have a foundation to work off of. So like when Sean and I do our goal setting, no longer is it this unorganized kind of a scramble of just picking and choosing things we want to happen. It's like, no, we have our category set just like this. We have our keyword set. We have already some things to work off of. And then,

you know, doing it the next time just hones in that process and kind of sharpens it. So I think it's, you know, I'll just point this out. But the connections, the goals is probably the most powerful, which is if you can set your long term goals in alignment with your values, you will ensure that your goals make you fundamentally happy. I think a lot of us have goals that are arbitrary or aren't aligned to our values. So for example, let's use me. I'll go back to that. Someone with the self-reliance thing. So if I have a financial goal, and let's just say I pick something like, I want 20 million. If I get the 20 million, I'm likely to just move the goalposts or it's probably not going to make me happy. But it was like, look, my goal is to reach a financial level of success where I don't need to be

reliant on anyone else, right? That, that actually becomes, and then I realized, you know what, that's at 10 million. I'm just using big numbers. That's a 10 million. And actually, 10 million, I have no reliance on an employer or this or that. Or I am like, like, well, then that, like, it might mean that 10 to 20 won't do anything more for me, right? Like, it won't, because I will have, what I actually wanted was not a lot of money, but, but I wanted financial freedom as someone who values self-reliance and beyond that, it might not do anything. So that was one of the biggest things, too. When you clear on your values, you can set these long-term goals that you're insured will,

are the right ones because if a goal serves a value, then it's inherently going to feel good when you get there. A lot of us get to the top of that mountain and we like, did I just climb the wrong mountain? You know, and the goal being the mountain, like I, like, it's not as great. as I thought it was going to be. Dang. That's deep.

The value in actually thinking about what you want out of life. It's real good. Yeah, we can be very goal driven. And I always use the example. Let's go back to the values. So family, a lot of people want a vacation house or a beach house or something. If you said to them why, you know, they're not, oh, I want this to be a special family place for us. Well, if in trying to get your $5 million vacation home, you worked so hard as you

worked so hard that you lost your spouse and isolated your kids and no one talks to you, I'm not sure that that $5 million vacation home is really going to make you feel great about family. You might have actually been doing for the wrong reasons. Maybe it was a trophy of your success. You weren't being, because if it was really about spending time with your family, then you wouldn't have not spent time with your family in order to achieve a goal about spending time with your family, right? That wouldn't really make much sense. Today's episode is brought to you by Modern Fertility. So we told you guys about Modern Fertility a couple weeks ago.

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down below. Let's get back to it. Whoa. Have you seen that core values are applied differently in personal life versus business or is it pretty consistent across the board that it just benefits relationships? So yeah, maybe talk about setting personal goals versus if you're a leader of a company, how you do that for your organization. Yeah, so the core value process is very different for an organization versus an individual. It's almost a little bit backwards because an individual is really truly saying what is true to them, you know, from, from, and a lot of these things have been a long time. A company actually conversely, like can't have real values. It might have a vision very clearly, but it's the founders and the founder has values. But until you

have about eight or ten people, you can't kind of agree on what you collectively value unless everyone's going to say we, you know, we agree that we value the founder's values, which is not the case. So company values actually get created a little bit later. However, they are paramount for a company. And actually in the perfect world, companies would, you know, what they believe, what they say and what they do is aligned. And so they're consistent about their vision and value and goals. And people come in and say, this is not the right company for me. This is the right company for me. I always, I like the example of colleges, maybe because my daughter's in that process now. But when you think about it, it's not a matter of good and bad, right? There's some

great colleges out there. But there's a 50,000, you know, person, in person, you know, a city campus value proposition that's very different from a 2,000 person, you know, urban woods campus. And those, what those schools are better at is saying, here's our value, you know, the Michigan doesn't pretend to be the little school. And the little school doesn't pretend to be the Michigan. They say, here's what we believe in. Here's our value proposition. Here's what like it. That's, Ideally, what would happen with a company is if they were true, not the, you know, Dilbert values that they put on the wall, trust, integrity.

By the way, those were Enron's values. If you know, it was like trust, integrity, respect, like nothing that got you a promotion at Enron. But, but if you actually were able to be clear about your values, then people could make a decision around, is it the right company for them? Is it the right time? We have, we have three core values at our company, own it, embrace relationships, and Excel and Improves. And our Excel and improve is pretty deep around kind of constant, never-ending improvement. So you'd love it, Andrew.

And also that we're, you know, being relationship-driven. If you're not someone or you're a point in your life where you just want a job or you want to come in and do the same thing and just do it consistently, like you won't like working at our company. Like it won't be fun for you. So, you know, that's where core value, I think personal and company you need to have some alignment around. would you say that the company core values are maybe more like aspirational of hey here's

where we're hoping to go and can't be aspirational because that's the stuff that everyone hit they have to that what they what they have to do is represent the the pooled best qualities that everyone so there's an exercise called like mission to mars i think that people use when they do it and it's like if we could only take one piece of everyone and we had to it together, like that's how you start doing it. Aspirational is what drives people crazy. Because here's an example. There are plenty of like CEO, competitive athletes out there who run cultures that are pretty competitive and cutthroat. And it would be great for those people to say, look, what we value here is winning. Like so, you know, you know, 20% of that we cut 20% of people

every year, 80% of the bonuses go to the top performers. We grow 40% a year and we value people winning and getting it right. Our company events are very competitive. They're sport-oriented. That works. There's plenty of people who would be like, I want that environment. The problem becomes when that person goes, we value teamwork and working together as a team and we treat everyone. They just say stuff that's not true and not what they believe. So that's where aspirational values are very dangerous. I think that when a company gets to 10 or 20 people, it should be able to look around and say, what are the most important principles that we collectively believe that people here have. Who are our best performers have? Because if you're saying you want something that none of the

people on the team actually have, then that's a problem because then those people shouldn't be working at that company. You know, it's it. You either have to do what you're saying or saying what you're doing. So I think it's a huge mistake for these aspirational values rather than to use it as almost like a best practices view on your on your team. Interesting. So it truly is like this kind of true pooling of what the organization represents collectively of like hey we're all cutthroat yeah because think about if everyone is there in some religious you know one group not a company saying that they're value to be something totally opposite like well that doesn't make sense why you know why are you there so i think that is the problem then let's picture the reverse there's the family business that's grown 5% a year

that just values tenure values longevity not very big on innovation or do doing better. It's just, it's all about being reliable, right? That person who's going to like, person at that company is probably not going to like working at that other company. And by the way, the person at the other company is probably going to hate that company too, right? Because it's just not, it's not that it's good or bad. It's not aligned with their value proposition. Really easy to understand in sports, right? The team tends to, even before it picks the coach, it picks the system it's going to run, right? It's going to run a run and shoot offense. right well if six running backs come on to the team and and they're just not running the ball like

how are they going to do well in in that environment like they need to go you know people find a scheme or a coach or something that aligns with their strength it i feel like it's the same you can relate it to to the relationships and the bit in the marriage and the um kind of personal side because i feel like a mistake people make is they romanticize what they want versus what they actually are and they they go after what they want and they figure out it doesn't work and then when they're saying if I if there's something I want my partner to have and I don't even have it. How's that going to work? Right. So I think it's just it's just finding out truly what your truth is of where who you are and figuring out how to match that with someone. And we said

this very earlier, but most people's truth runs very deep. I mean, Andrew and I talked through some of this like it's it's it's stuff that's been true for 20 years like it's probably not going to change or as you say overnight or as much as you want to just be something totally different it's probably not going to not going to happen for you i am curious to get your perception on this and then we'll close of in a family situation where it's not hey we can cut the bottom 20% of performers uh maybe there are situations that arise uh where the kids I don't know if it's possible, but adopt different core values or definitely makes decisions that seem to contradict the core values of parents, whether it's, you know, whatever, financially

or relationship-wise or in any number of situations. How do you reconcile when it is true family? Yeah. And you can't just say, well, I'm done with you. So this almost works like the company example, again, right? And I'll give you an example that I loved around this and how actually this is such a probably go on for this for a few minutes but but yes your kids probably have their own core values they're until there are maybe teenagers they're probably too young to really go through that process but we did we sat around with our kids and we came up with family core values because the family core values can't be mine it can't be my wives we all have to agree to us and we said look what do we agree to what do we want a glazer family to be and what do we want

to be important and we brought them into that process this is a little bit like you would do with a company. Like, what do we all agree are the important things? And so our family core values are different. They're, be happy, be healthy, be respectful, be responsible, be resilient, and be kind. And again, I don't need a piece of paper to read off of this. And so really interestingly, why values are so important is because you get an infinite amount of rules. In a company, I could have a 200-page rulebook or have four or five values that the combination of their is tells people how they should act or behave in certain situations. Same thing with your family.

Like, we try to not have a lot of rules, except I can tell you, my wife and I get really mad when the health one is broken or the respectful one is broken or the responsible one is broken. And we point that out. So one of my children, it won't be named, likes to sneak tons of extra desserts. It's a little sneaky about it. And so the discussion there would be like, look, look, dude, that's not healthy. Now I've, now I've eliminated a third of my kids. Look, that's not healthy.

when we talk about healthy that's not so we actually really try to bring things back to that and and in some ways again to the pearl jam versus whatever you can't get upset about everything if you want your kids to know where those bright lines are then you have to be like look like they kind of know that these are the things and there's a great story I heard on a podcast and I think this is such a perfect example of values and what I would hope to try to do um but his 17 year old daughter and she said what's my curfew you know tonight. for be home. And he was like going to make it 11. And he said, well, look, um, Sally or whatever name. Sally, look, you know that your mom and I worry about you and we really don't fall asleep until you get home, um, because we just don't feel comfortable not knowing you're, you're in bed. So, um, that's sort of the why. And, and, and so you tell us, you know, what time you feel like would be a good time for you to come home and, uh, you know, so you don't feel like your night was cheated otherwise. And so she was like 10.30. And, you know, rather than, you know, than saying our curfew is this hard rule he really went to sort of the value and the why behind it

and if you think about that like why you know if you pick four or five good values for your family that should encompass a rule set and and i think then the key is not to get you have to not you have to discern between i don't mean like yelling but like how how angry you get around a shoe left out versus how like angry you get around someone being disrespectful when i the time that my kids probably wanted to hide from me was when I found out that or when I felt like they said something that was disrespectful because that just really hits a chord for me back to my respectful authenticity thing. I can tell you one of my favorite moments as a parent was and was a parent teacher conference where in describing one of my children that

the the teacher listed off four of our five family core values. I was like, doing something right there. I don't get right at all the time. But, you know, that made me feel so great to know that that was the behavior that she was seeing in the classroom. That was phenomenal what you just said. Do I understand correctly that you have a little code for our listeners? Yeah.

So if you, I was like, secret code. If you're interested in taking the course and you go to its core values course. dot com, www. core values course.com. You can also find it at Robert Glazer.com and you use the code I think we set up as couple,

couple, through Sunday you can get the course for half off. Wow. I can't thank you enough for this. Again, there's so much value in actually doing this course on core values. Thank you for putting it together

and thank you for coming on to discuss it. This is a keeper for sure. So I look forward to a potential future conversation. Thank you both for having me. Yeah, thank you so much.