Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - everyone's a bad choice (choosing your spouse)

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

In today’s episode we talked about how "everyone's a bad choice.’ Everyone comes with flaws, baggage, and annoying habits — the trick is realizing love isn’t about finding perfection, it’s about choosing someone imperfect and choosing them again and again. We go through why we think this and would love to hear your thoughts too! Love you guys! Shawn & Andrew ▶ Home Chef is giving our listeners 50% OFF your first box, plus free shipping, AND free dessert for life. Just go to https://www.HomeChef.com/EASTFAM ▶ Head to https://www.shopbeam.com slash beam kids and get up to 50% off while supplies last! ▶Try the new GoGURT protein we talked about in this episode, it’s amazing! https://bit.ly/3HCC0BY Beam Kids is now available online at https://www.shopbeam.com/COUPLETHINGS Take advantage of our exclusive discount of up to 40% off using code COUPLETHINGS Subscribe to our newsletter ▶ https://www.familymade.com/newsletter Follow our podcast Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/shawnandandrewpods/ Follow My Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/ShawnJohnson Follow My Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@shawnjohnson Shop My LTK Page ▶ https://www.shopltk.com/explore/shawnjohnson Like the Facebook page! ▶ https://www.facebook.com/ShawnJohnson Follow Andrew’s Instagram ▶ https://www.instagram.com/AndrewDEast Andrew’s Tik Tok ▶ https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewdeast?lang=en Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. Today, Andrew is so excited about this one. I am excited about this one. Why everyone is a bad choice to marry. I'm a little worried about you not speaking into the mic right now. You know what? I am a little worried about that. And if we don't capture what you have to say on this podcast, then it won't be nearly as good.

I'm just, is the truth finally coming out here, Andrew? What? You just thought it was a bad choice to marry? About the title of the episode, about how everyone's a bad choice to marry. Yeah. We read this in a devotional or something along these lines. Yes. And it really struck me because I know that I was a bad choice for you to marry.

And here we are yet. Nine and a half years in. So what do you do with that? You know? We're going to break this down first before we get to like the punchline of it. And I think you guys will agree. But hang with us. First.

I want to do a fan interaction of the day. We had a listener who reached out and said that they saw how we named our youngest child Barrett. They really liked that name. And they had a baby and named their kid Barrett after Bear Bear Bear. How about that? How about that? It's pretty fun in the life that we have found ourselves doing, the community that we found ourselves having. And then we bump into these people and it's like, hey, we got the same kid's name.

How about that? Yeah. What do you think about that? A little strange. I don't think it is It's very flattering Do you know who your parents named you after? Yes

Who? Supermodel Sean? Yeah Really? Yeah Dang I think it was like

I don't know if it was a supermodel Miss America or something I don't know There was a girl Who was along those lines of like a pageant Or what she won something My mom was like I really like that name

well she might have been a supermodel but i guarantee you one thing she could not touch your beauty girl girl girl you're so cheesy oh can we also tell the story that the librarian shared about jet oh that was so sweet so we went to our school's football game this past weekend the kids were ecstatic to go and we got you know pulled aside by the school librarian she said that this week She was in the library with Jett. She was doing some assessments with him, reading some books. And I don't know what sparked it,

but he was going down the laundry list of names in our family. He was like, my brother is Bear Bear. My sister is Abba. My mommy, or my daddy is Andrew. My mommy is Sean. But Daddy does not call her Sean.

Daddy calls her sweetie. And it like brought the librarian to tears, so much so that like she truly needed us to know the story. and she was just like, thank you for showcasing that in your home. And like you've made an impression on him that way. My favorite part of the story was she said, hi, I'm so-and-so, I'm the librarian.

He said, hi, I'm a bull rider. Yeah. Which is pretty cute. Yes. We are alternating between bull rider, army guy, ninja. Motorcrosser. Motor-crosser. Football guy.

Real football guy. Yeah, yeah, big football. Yeah. We also had an epic Labor Day weekend. We took the kids to the lake. and we rode the boat, we fished, we played with spiders and found bugs, jet learned how to ski. Drew did the most beautiful art I've ever seen for every single person in the entire family. That East Lake art is so good.

And then Bear is just like coming to life. It's so cute. He's like saying all these words really putting it together and his personality and sense of humor is really coming out, which is just amazing. So anyway, now that we've talked about our kids and the wonderful family that we have, let's talk about how we're bad choices to marry. Okay. Shall we? We shall.

Okay, so my hot take is that everyone is a bad choice to marry. Even me, babe. Even me. How do you feel about that? Keep going. Okay. I think I think

that the process of marriage is to spend a lifetime with someone we're talking decades together to be as we say the witness to their life sit front row seat to everything they do that includes the bad things they do

and inevitably as we found out in our nine and a half years no one is perfect right everyone has flaws and i think if you go into marriage thinking i am going to be the perfect husband or she's going to be the perfect wife or we're going to have a perfect marriage that is a shaky place to put your expectations i think it's a good thing to aim for and aspire to I think I want to be the best husband I can be. But I think that understanding there is imperfections is a really important concept to grasp. But the good news is that you don't need to have perfection to have a beautiful, lasting marriage.

Agreed. So we're going to talk about what culture teaches. We're going to talk about phases of marriage and what real marriage looks like, tell stories from our own relationship. And then maybe have a little encouragement at the end, babe. I love this. So we found these six phases of marriages. Will you just walk us through the six phases? Yes.

So first phase of a marriage is the dream phase. It's usually right after you say I do. You imagine the perfect life. There's no flaws. You have all the butterflies. You're just living in, you know, living in the clouds. Yeah. There's nothing about your person that...

You would ever change. It's so magical. Feels easy. It feels easy and whimsical. Phase two is the discover phase. Now you get to see the real person. The quirks, the flaws, the wounds, the masks start coming off. Andrew and I have talked about this.

We're trying to pull together a lot of the things that we've talked about on different podcasts here. In one of our podcasts, we were saying, when you are dating a person, you use. usually are putting your best foot forward as much as humanly possible. Because you're courting each other. You're trying to impress each other. You're trying to like just be the best possible person you can. Sometimes you change who you are

so that the other person likes you more. Which again, there's, part of that's good, right? Part of that's good. But usually what happens is after you get married over time, wear and tear of just like, Day in, day out. All of those, like, masks, quote on, or whatever, the masks and the facades start to, like, break down. And you start to get testy with each other, and you start to look at the quirks that you thought were really cute and you got married and you start to get annoyed with them.

That's the face, the discovery phase. You're like, oh, my gosh, this person I married actually has things about them I don't like. Well, that's kind of the effect that time has, where it's like the endurance that you have to keep on any false pretense or false self-image, you just don't have the ability to do that for decades. Usually after you get married, after you get married, you're like, oh, yeah, by the way, I actually don't like baseball. I just, you know, would go to the games because I thought it was cute. like that effort that you would extend in dating all of a sudden you're like why was I doing that I'm going to come back to that yeah okay because there's a full circle moment to that I also want to ask you I would say the phase one the dream phase lasted all the way through

dating started in dating and then probably lasted for us the honeymoon phase yeah the first few months of marriage yeah it was I feel like our honeymoon phase we got slapped in the face yeah it was shorter than most. People say the first year of marriage is wonderful. I would say it was like the first three months of our marriage. And then we just did the hardest times of our marriage episode. And you can hear about. Summary, Andrew went off to the NFL. I went off to tour. We basically didn't see each other for like our first year of marriage. When did you say phase two hit though? Because I think there was a little gap. When we got back. Gotcha. I think phase two for us happened when I came back from tour

you were still bouncing around the NFL but your honeymoon phase of the NFL almost was over and so we were just doing life for the first time we had a lot of reality checks happen in life in general yeah we talked about this in that episode

but like when we first met I was a captain the college football team I had all these things going for me and then when she got back from that tour in our first year marriage i was like pretty much a jobless bum i mean if you zoom out and i think i was depressed so yeah what a time what a time so that was our discovery phase um phase three the disappointment phase this comes after the discovery phase this um isn't hot uh and it's not what you would expect yeah yeah arguments now become personal, which is the scary part.

So arguments are no longer about just like, oh, no, I want to go here tonight. I want to go here. It becomes targeted or it can become targeted. Like, I don't like this about you. And you know that person so well at this point that you really can hurt the other person by saying, yeah, I'm going to target that specific weak point of yours, which is a tough place. And this is usually a phase and a marriage where, and you have to be very careful, We're going to talk about all these phases because these are all normal phases.

I want you to listen to this and not be disenchanted by marriage. I want you to listen to this and be able to relate to it and say, oh, yeah, I'm in that phase or I've gone through that phase because those are normal. And you can come out of them easily if you work to them. But this is where in a phase you can very easily start planting the seed of did I marry the wrong person. Name the year that you think we hit this phase. Yeah. Oh, did you hit this face? I'm grateful because of the conditioning I had of my image of marriage.

I never had the thought of did I marry the wrong person? But I remember, well, I'll let you answer first. I'll say year two. Okay. I was going to say 2019. When we became parents, I feel like I felt the disappointment from you. Oh, baby. I'm so sorry.

There was like a certain sharpness between us, you know? I'm really sorry. No, it's good. It's good. We're better for it now. I think. So that would be year three. Mine wasn't year two.

Mine was year one. I think all of that for me happened quickly. Interesting. I think year one, it was a lot of like, yeah, a lot of growing and maturing very quickly for me. But I also think we are living quickly. Part of me wonders. Some of this feels chronological and like the maturing of realizing this person's not perfect.

What do I do at that point? And how you deal with that matters a lot. But I also wonder if it is cyclical throughout marriage where it's like the disappointment. You can do this multiple times. It's different. Yeah. Phase four is the rebuilding phase. You stop trying to change each other.

You start learning from each other. Boundaries are set. Love becomes intentional. So it's no longer the honeymoon. You've learned how to deal with disappointment. you've seen flaws now you're like you know what this is my person i'm in this how can i now build this to be everything that i've ever wanted a lot of people stop at phase three the disappointment phase and they don't let phase four five and six come into play i know this is partially what we're writing a book

about commitment and sticking to it doubling down is okay so it didn't pan out the way you want it, your freaking career, your athletics, your marriage, what do you do? You can either walk away or you can actively choose to build that. And it takes two. Yeah. That's the asterisk here of like, we are firm believers. You can't build a lifelong lasting marriage one side then. You can go through phases where like someone's giving more than the other, but like you need two people who are,

that's an interesting point I wonder if individuals in a marriage experience these phases differently like you hit the disappointment phase earlier than I did I wonder what effect that has I also think there's different phases like four I think

I think you and I have each gone through the rebuilding phase solo probably many times where we're working on ourselves and we're working on our careers and I'm thinking about with every pregnancy and postpartum

there's so many rebuilding things happening with me personally but I would say our rebuilding phase our biggest rebuilding phase happened with Bear I agree

it was recent yeah and that was like we need to take a big look at this not like it's dooms day-ish but like there's a disconnect and we have to rebuild it

like we have to rebuild the foundation but the intention yeah Phase five? Phase five, the deep love phase. You've seen each other at your absolute worst, and you still stayed.

There's peace, there's passion, and there's companionship. I would say we're, it feels like we're on the front end of this. I agree. Which is really nice. Even, we got an argument last night, and I was reflecting about this this morning. We still did all the bad things, all the wrong things. You know, you say hurtful things, you point at each other,

but we were able to laugh through it. Yeah. Which was new for us. I've mentioned this, I think, in just off-camera conversations, but this summer was pivotal for me to see certain elements of you in lights I'd not previously been able to. The show? So, yeah, we did that Special Forces show, which is coming out in a couple weeks. And to see, I think it was a combination of seeing you in contrast to other people

and how you dealt with discomfort, how you just were different than other people in that group. And then also to see your intensity that makes you so unique was it was like, oh my gosh, oh, that is just such an incredible quality that you have that is sometimes applied to when we're talking about arguments at home, you know? Yeah. But it like, it really is such a beautiful, precious quality. of yours that I just because I missed your whole competition career in gymnastics I'd never been

able to see it like that and it was like oh this awesome it is interesting I had very similar takeaways with you of being able to like watch you from the sidelines because you will see firsthand we're very very separate in this show yeah we're on different teams mixed up every single day and there are a lot of times like I'm cheering for you internally on the sidelines but I'm literally just watching it yeah and it helped me make sense of a lot of things too but even there was an aspect to it where there were certain things that like the DS would yell at you for and I remember internally thinking these are things that I've been annoyed by things that I've gotten frustrated with you by,

but I found in that moment it was like a switch flip. Yeah. Where it was like, that is something I love so much about you. Don't you dare yell at him for that. Don't take that away from him. There was a, well, one, I need to be careful now that I have like this new perspective on you. To not use that as a way to downplay what you're actually trying to say, like in arguments. not be like oh that's just her cute intensity i still need to like really actively listen to like

okay what's the issue here you know what i'm saying yeah i feel like i've done that a couple times like oh that's just her cute intensity and we'll just this'll blow by and i like whatever it'll be okay i'm just confessing right now bro thank you thank you um but then i also think i think this is partially why having close community is is important as a married couple because on that show we spent two weeks straight with these people and there was an effect of like oh my gosh sure Sean has this basket of flaws but I am so glad she's not like X, Y, Z this in certain ways you know what I'm saying? You have a comparison. Yeah it's like I'll take Sean all day to day you know what I'm saying? Like ridiculous. Okay last phase is the legacy phase

you become role models without realizing it your love inspires others you've built something that outlives feelings. I don't know how it's back to school season already, but I am in full prep mode. The backpacks are packed. Our fridge is stocked with snacks, like Drew's current favorite, the gogert protein. And Drew is so excited to be starting kindergarten.

I don't know if I am. And I don't know about you, but I used to eat gogurt with my siblings after school, and I have such fond memories of those times. It's been fun to see Drew love gogurt now too, except now they have gogert protein, which is absolutely amazing. It has two times the amount of protein

of the original gogert. We try to sneak more protein into our kids' diets wherever we can. Drew loves the strawberry flavor and knows exactly where I keep them in the fridge. When she gets home, she knows she can grab one, open it up herself with their easy open packaging and enjoy. And our son Jet loves them too, and we appreciate the tube design that makes it a mess-free snack that you can eat on the go. Our kids will have a go-gurt protein on the way to ice skating or swim, and we don't mind when they eat them in the car because they really leave no mess behind. Yes, they are a car snack staple. I'll also toss a few gogurt protein snacks into the freezer

so they last longer. I'll pull them out whenever we need it in the morning and they're ready to eat by the afternoon. Or if you just eat them frozen, they're really good. These bad boys are frozen right now, and I can't wait to have one. Anyway, gogurt protein is the back-to-school snack this season that your kids will love and you can feel great about. Available in flavors like strawberry and berry,

look for go-gurt protein at a retailer near you. That's interesting. that is interesting I hope we get to that phase that doesn't feel like you can intentionally get there by yourself it's like

it's like okay you've been doing this for a long time and now I guess other people inadvertently use your relationship I'm thinking of like grandparents as a benchmark of like

my grandparents were married 60 years and that's what I'm wanting to well and I mean a great example that I would give is like a legacy phase is my parents. Yeah. My parents got married at 16. They had me at 32.

They're now in their 60s. And they're thriving. And I think for me, what I see, and I got to see firsthand my whole life was it was never easy. Especially getting married so young and dealing with a lot of adversity. But they fought through it.

At the end of the day, they were like, I'm not leaving. I'm staying here. whether you like me or not, and we're going to figure this out. Your parents aren't inspirational. So the episode is titled Everyone is a bad choice to marry.

We're talking pretty much about that phase three, the disappointment phase, where the marriage or relationship is not what you expected. But I want to talk about, in contrast to that, what is the myth of the perfect person? Yes. So this is where I was going to say, culture paints a completely different picture

of what these phases should be. And it drives me crazy because I even think we got wrapped up in it. Not within our marriage, but like in premarital counseling and to a certain extent. Not with our premarital counselor. But with like mentors and stuff, people would always say write out a list of what are your non-negotiables. Like if this line is crossed, you're leaving. Terrible exercise.

Don't ever do that. I think there are non-negotiables, abuse. Absolutely. but I think setting yourself up for if this happens I'm not staying yeah is interesting because what I have found with our community and friends and life is like life is dirty and nasty and hard and you get served a lot of very interesting cards that you could never ever predict nobody's perfect And I think it's just kind of like

No matter what happens You can choose to stay And you can choose to rebuild You think culture sells And only talks about phase one The dream phase? I think culture says marriage in general Should be phase one for your whole life

And if it's not Then you did marry the wrong person I think that's so false I hope that this episode expands the conversation or awareness around like, hey, this is natural. And when you hit the disappointment phase, but you will. It's okay. And there is a next phase. People say, this is a season and there's a next season coming.

That season will end. You got to stick it through, though, like experience it. And then game plan for the next phase. But going back to what you said, what does culture portray as like the perfect person. it's I do think there's an aspect of like compatibility you have to be able to have a conversation with someone you have to click you have to vibe

you have to be attracted to them like there's all these things but instead of allowing that to happen naturally anymore with like whoever you might bump into we're now surrounded by all these dating apps in social media where you can filter out options because you just don't think oh the profile says five six

my minimum is 5-8 and it's like we are painting this picture this preconceived picture of the perfect person for us and we are not allowing all these imperfect people around us to actually have

a chance when in reality there is no there is no person in the entire world who is going to check every single box even if you believe in the one and you find the one I guarantee you they're not going to be able to check every single box that you write. Okay.

So that's interesting. We now have the ability to really finesse the choice. Because we could say, we can choose because of these apps from such a wider pool of people that now I can say, okay, I did find a brown-haired, six-foot-tall, athletic, lives in this city, has this career. boot, bop, pop, and checks all these boxes. So you, you're like, you can cater to your choices to a certain degree, which I think is good to have an image in your mind of like, this is the type of person I would like to marry. Yeah. But I think it is important also to have a good enough threshold.

For sure. And just understand, and that threshold be based on the most important thing. So, like, everything I just listed in that basket of people was, like, physical characteristics, which is important, sure. But maybe there's the personal traits and values. Maybe there's a family background. Maybe there's trauma and, like, personal background in that sense. Maybe there is careers and future ambitions. Maybe there's goal align.

There's, like, there's so many things beyond what a dating app can tell you or allow you to choose. that people I think they say oh I found the perfect person physically that I wanted and so they kind of extrapolate and say well they must be perfect and all of these other things too

and so when they find out that they're not it's like well what the heck it's big letdown well and it's so fascinating even on these dating ads people are bear with me like hypothetical situation but people are finding

the quote unquote perfect person but they're finding a perfect profile and then they go meet this person in real life and they're like oh you're not as flawless as your profile made you seem so then they're not even giving people a shot and I think it's just this idea of there are so many people that will probably surprise you and can like build up to a potential partner you could build up to dating you could build up to marriage someday that you would never even even given a chance because culture says if they don't check all your boxes it's not even worth a shot and it's it's just this like the myth of perfection that it's

that's absolutely crazy it makes people literally go crazy because you're like I know my perfect person's out there I just got to find them no like no you don't because one they don't exist and two you need to like open your eyes up a little bit more and the perfect person might be actually like right next to you if you would just Give it a chance. Yeah. I'll check your box any day, baby. Okay.

Here's a core belief of mine. I think everyone is made in God's image, right? And I think the more time you spend with people, the more you get to know them. And there's that saying, to know is to love. And so I think the more you get to know somebody, the more you get to see these wonderful characteristics that are from God and you can grow a love for anybody I think of like office romances it's like oh yeah we worked together for 10 years and then we had this affair it's like well because you're spending eight hours a day together in the office and it's like you're getting

to know them and then you fall in love with them and it's like oh they they are cute and xyz you phase or ways so yeah to your point it's like everybody has these beautiful characteristics so do they hit that good enough threshold in the ways that matter and then you just got to like come to terms with that but I do think that movies rom-coms and all the shows portray this like effortless love the soulmate connection where the other person completes you you know and it's like I think the other person can complete you

if you let them but they're not going to complete you naturally and they're not going to heal you and they're not going to Yeah. What's the movie? I ask you this all the time. We live in time. I think that is one of the best depictions of marriage that I've seen in a movie form.

Why? Because it shows every emotion. It shows two very different people who like didn't check each other's boxes, started to become interested fought to stay together fought, had arguments

went through yucky life events and had to like play this give and take game of disappointment and pain and fear and love and ups and downs but they like worked through it

and I think that's probably why I have never cried watching a movie you were in tears dude I have never cried watching a movie I bawled. But I think it's because it showed such a real light of like what marriage is. Yeah. And you could feel the disappointment on both sides. And then you could feel the healing on both sides and like the love.

And it's just, I think a lot of people don't even get the chance to unlock a certain level of love in marriage because they haven't been truly disappointed by each other. And that sounds like a really weird thing to say. But all of us innately. have this fear of if only he really knew or if only she really knew who I was, they would leave. And I think there's something really beautiful about whenever that happens where you get to see a very, very exposed, vulnerable, unattractive side of me that disappoints you and that hurts you and you still learn to stay and rebuild and love even deeper, that is not something they teach you in a rom-com

so instead of if only they knew who I really was it's they know who I really am and they still choose to love me and stay I think that correlates to faith where it's like you know I like listening to apologetics

and theological arguments and let's prove Jesus was whatever and it's like at the end of the day that's so pointless and way because faith is a choice and we talked about with dr deloni that the concept of faithfulness

in a marriage why is faithfulness used in marriage and also in faith and it's like you have to choose like you just have to say yeah okay this person in a different way than faith but like this person is imperfect but i'm going to make the choice consciously to say we're doing this you know which is So to drop another movie, too, there's one called The Marriage Story. I think Scarlett Johansson did it, 29. I don't think you watched it. But Sean and I are geeks about this. So anytime there's a movie about this topic, I feel like we like to watch them.

But in that movie, it's kind of the antithesis of We Live in Time, where you see the element of charity and, the element of like there being an assumption of goodness from the other person that like the goodwill in a marriage that you need to say oh okay I know you let me down but we'll try it again next time and you'll do better

it like you see in that movie that element which is so invisible and ambiguous and intangeloise intangible leave and all of a sudden conversations that used to be funny are now really antagonistic and argumentative and it's like whoa which it can happen very quickly any day at any time and it takes like that happens with us yeah all the time where last night it did yeah that's what you were saying you catch anyone on a bad day in a bad moment and a little tired a little had a hard day work if you stop laughing things off and taking them personally your best friend in life can become your nemesis quickly and it takes like active reflection and work every day super interesting

so anyway there's this myth of a perfect person but the reality is everyone comes with corks and habits and baggage that you might not like and the perfect person does not exist. I truly cannot believe summer is over and it's back to school season. While I'm excited for all the fun the school year brings, I'm not excited for the back to school sicknesses. Oh man, I forgot about that. It literally happens every year.

It happens every year. This is a big part of why we co-created beam kids to help support our kids immune health. Our three little ones still drink their beam kids every single night before bed and we feel really good about all the vitamins and probiotics, they're getting to fill in the gaps. And we also just launched the duo packs, which is a fun way to taste test different flavors. Jet loves chocolate chip and Drew loves chocolate, so it's a win-win. Whether you want to strengthen your kid's immune system before the back-to-school germs hit or give them extra vitamins that tastes like dessert, check out Beam Kids.

Head to shop Beam.com slash Beam Kids and get up to 50% off while supplies last. but the takeaway that hopefully is encouraging is that real love is not about finding a flawless person it's about finding someone who's imperfections you're willing to embrace and maybe more importantly who embraces your imperfections

has to be too much. Anyway. The next part of this is like the honeymoon versus the long haul, so gripping more of those phases together. Culture backs this idea that you should be in the honeymoon phase always.

That's when you know you're with the right person. If you're not, you marry the wrong person, so you need to go find another honeymoon phase. The culture likes to paint this picture that you should be in the honeymoon phase always. And that if you get out of the honeymoon phase, you should get a divorce and you should go find the honeymoon phase because the right person would only give you the honeymoon phase all the time.

Now, the long haul, the working, digging, grinding through it to get back up to that honeymoon phase and go through this cycle for your whole life does not sound great. Like if you were to tell us that before you get married, like it's going to be a grind. You're going to go, you're going to not like each other

through very long seasons of life. You're going to go through all this. Yeah, the honeymoon phase sounds better. why is it because it's more exciting it's more acute like uh because the honeymoon phase is butterflies it's it's what we all grow up watching in the movies it's i think kind of written into us at a very young age that it's it should make you feel like you're in the clouds all the time yeah um i feel like I feel like our long haul started Was it, it was right after you ever had from tours,

that what you're saying? I don't know. I think there's different minds. I think my solo long haul started after four. Like a... Your mind changed? Yeah.

I think hours. Probably changed after the miss. carriage? Yeah. I think things shifted a little bit. I don't know. Maybe after Drew, honestly, for both of us. I think the honeymoon phase ends when you start seeing traits about the other person

where it's like, okay, they're impatient, they're quirky, they're bothersome in this way. but then the long haul starts when yeah it's like that mental shift of hey you do have all these wonderful traits and that's what the honeymoon phase was like the really surface level exciting things and then the long haul like is a transition after okay you disappointed me and then there's this element of I say this all the time on the podcast, not off camera. But it's like, you know, Sean is simultaneously the most thoughtful, loving, amazing wife. And also she's annoying and forgetful and whatever in X, Y, Z ways. But it's like, okay, so am I.

Yeah. And if we're both of them, then, well, let's just choose to see the best side of each other. So I think that's my takeaway from a long haul. But I do think the honeymoon phase is kind of like a drug. Chasing the honeymoon phase or expecting the honeymoon phase where it's doing the other person a disservice for sure because it's almost like an unspoken expectation maybe that like I expect us to be in the honeymoon phase always.

and then the other person feels the necessity to be perfect that doesn't allow them to share who they really are and it's also a disservice to yourself because you're like um monogamy is like this interesting thing where it's like you are my mirror and and you've made me so so much better and so much different as a person that if I just tried to swap out mirrors to only give the image that I wanted, it's like there's an element of not allowing growth

through that, you know? Well, and dating, I want to go back to that to have like a contrast here. But like, I remember when we were dating. Like, we were with each other a lot dating. Yeah, yeah. but still there were days where I'd wake up

and be like I just don't feel like hanging out with him today really and or I was too busy or had something and when you're dating it's so easy to be like

sorry I can't hang today and it's almost like you get to shelter your other person from the hard days that you have both if you're having a hard day and if they're having a hard day

and you don't want to be around it yes and I think what's interesting with dating is you guys are usually for the most part only hanging out when you're both up feeling up for it and you're both willing to put on that smile in front and say today's a good day we're going to go have a blast okay i'll see you tomorrow or actually i'm going to go out of town for three days marriage is interesting where like you don't get that yeah you literally wake up next to each other and you're like today just kind of feels like a sucky day

Yeah. And I have to figure out how to be a great spouse. And a lot of times you're not. A lot of times you fail. But it's like working through that to... Yeah. I feel like the imperfections come out a lot of times in conflict. And I feel like, again, that's another place where culture says that if it gets hard and if you have conflict, you pick the wrong person.

But... Conflict is the inevitability of getting to know somebody, right? It's like, it's like, I've seen the other day about how life is so much more beautiful when you appreciate the subtleties of it, like when you appreciate the subtleties of how a meal taste, right? Or how a sunset looks, or how the weather is perfect, or

the flowers and the colors. And it's less about, like, the super high dopamine hits of, like, the adrenaline rushes or... But that's the world we live in. Right. Yeah. But the interesting thing about marriage is, you get to know

the subtleties the other person. And some of them will be naturally beautiful to you and others will be subtly frustrating which will then lead to conflict so like just as you if in dating you get to know 20 things about a person

in marriage you'll get to know a million and you're not going to like all of them so conflict is inevitable disagreements are inevitable but it doesn't mean that you made a mistake it means that you're two people who are in the process of getting to know each other What are some examples of cultural lies that were fed on a daily basis?

One that comes in mind that is if you're with the right person, you won't fight. Yeah. We talk about that one. What? We fight a lot. No, we don't. We, well, and that's such a dramatic thing to say. We definitely have our disagreements.

We disagree a lot, but, like, it's also part of our personalities. but also someone someone said this either day i'm sorry to interrupt no because they were asking if we like argue and i was like yeah we disagree a lot but something i learned from the show is like you and are both very stubborn very strong-willed very intense humans and we actively chose to do life together but we love pushback do you think i'm stubborn complacency is an unattractive trait to both of us yeah and so when people say like you argue a lot or you bicker a lot or it's like yeah we actually kind of find that attractive in some ways which is such a weird psychological effect it's like a psychological subtlety where you viewing our disagreements as a cool thing that makes us us

yeah instead of you viewing our disagreements as like is a choice being of your existence is a choice makes all the difference again it's like Yeah, that's like a whole another layer of reality that I feel like... But that's also getting through so many of those phases that I said at the beginning

where you start to learn that your quirks and flaws, like we went through our phases where I distinctly remember this. I remember when we used to think all of our quirks and flaws were so cute and they were so perfect. And then we went through the phase

we're like, oh, it's so freaking annoying. Like, why can't you just put clothes in the freaking hamper? And why can't I close cabinets? And like, whatever it is. and when you get to that point where you're like no it's actually like why we fell in love with each other and it's fun to watch and it's fun to see

and it's fun to use and it's fun to like it becomes cool our counselor once said the very things and traits that you fell in love with are the things that will most annoy you later on so Sean's rigidness and attention to details and her discipline I was like so attracted to

because that's what made her athletic. That's what made her, like, around me. You would schedule your time to cater to my. My schedule. Yeah. What? My schedule? Yeah, your schedule.

And my footloose and fancy free nonchalantness. That was what I loved. And then fast forward, and it's like, well, Andrews's so unstructured and unruited, you know, it like becomes annoying. I remember that particular counselor saying there was like this path that she could follow with all relationships that come her way. And it was basically this idea of everything that you fall in love with about each other

later in life becomes things you try to change. Everybody in a marriage will get to a point where they want the other person to be exactly like them because life would be easier. Life would be easier if you were as clean as I was, if you scheduled like I was, if you did life like me. So everything that you fell in love with,

you try to change. And she said then becomes this like pivot point. I remember we were sitting in a little bit, in a car talking to her. Yeah, I remember that too. And I remember her saying there's a pivot point where you actively choose in your marriage because this happens with everybody

where you either learn to re-embrace and re-love all of those quirks that you're trying to now change and she said, or you say it's too much, I can't handle that anymore and you leave. Yeah. Which is so fascinating that she has seen this time and time and time

and time again that's the exact things people fell in love with that they leave and i think that's where like that work comes in of i don't know why that's like tweaking out my brain right now with the whole title of this episode is like what you think is perfect even if you think you have the most perfect person give it five years and you're going to say they're actually imperfect yeah yeah another lie that comes to mind is love should always feel magical or if you're not happy maybe it's not meant to be and I would say love will not always feel magical but love can be extremely meaningful when you apply it to supporting another person and choosing the other person and allowing the other person to show who they are and make mistakes and still be there with them and then they'll do that for you

and it's like this virtuous cycle of like oh my gosh i made a mistake that hurt you you showed loyalty and love to me i want to do that less and then you do that less and then all of a sudden you are becoming like this better person because of it you know i hope we're being coherent in this episode. I think we are. Great. Same. You're skeptical? I'm only skeptical because it means so much to us.

Yeah. I hope it makes sense to someone listening. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Anyway, I feel like conflict, when handled with grace and humility and forgiveness, actually becomes a tool that deepens intimacy. And it's like a signal. of unique differences or maybe areas in one of your lives that needs refinement, that takes a lot of awareness and honesty if that refinement needs to come from you, you know? And also it's like an opportunity to love, I guess, you know, is how I'm feeling that. I'm learning right now.

We are nine years into marriage, and I feel like we are just now understanding each other when we argue. we're getting better baby like like a tiny bit do you think we could have done it faster not with our personalities since we're stubborn so it was like a necessary nine years i agree well and it's it's nine years it's not and it wasn't nine years of us just not listening to each other and all of a sudden yesterday like yeah yeah yeah it's nine years of progressively trying to like speak different languages to each other and not legitimately not actually we're like

constantly trying to tweak things what if we were though what if we actually spoke different language let me try Chinese tonight let me go learn Chinese and see if that works we just broke it out

in an argument yeah it was it was nine years of trying to figure out how to communicate with each other yeah good work babe

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It's the best. Can't speak highly enough about it. That means we got 70 years to freaking bask in the glory of our hard works thus far, maybe. Last part of this is, well. I was just going to say If everyone is a bad choice to marry What do you do? Choose one

And choose them Every day At the end of the day There's a lot of great options Out there A lot you could probably build A beautiful life with And you're probably going to get

To a phase in a relationship Where it's like Do I commit to this one Or do I try to go find a better one? And all I can say is if you have two people who are right there together like should we should we not

you might as well because marriage advice from Sean you might as well because you can always find a flaw to back off back away from

always but what's going to keep you from doing that on day 2 or day 2000 or day 200 if you start practicing that early it becomes easier when you get married. Dig in, baby.

And so wake up every day and choose each other. Don't let those thoughts of, is this the wrong person? Yes, you can have more of those, obviously, when you're dating. But like if you are married, wake up every day and try to push all those thoughts of, is this the wrong person, is, I'm just annoyed, why do they do this? Like, try to actively choose them every day. Embrace their flaws. The momentary feelings, which do matter.

the feelings fluctuate, but commitment anchors their relationship and love is a decision. I think this is why, in my mind, the Christian concept of love is so deeply intertwined in marriage because it's like love is a decision. It's a decision to sacrifice. It's a decision to lay down your life for the other. And by that, I mean like set aside your preferences, your style, your comfort to make room for the other person. It's necessary. And, I feel like the ways that we have learned to choose each other and decided to choose love is communicating. Even when it's very hard.

Last night, we were going over the schedule, which is hard for me. Yeah. And it was hard for Sean in that context, even though she loves scheduling, to have that conversation because I wasn't my normal bubbly engaged. self because it's like a tough thing for me so it's like okay what are we going to do well i'll try

to do better you'll try to have more grace boom we're in a better spot forgive quickly laugh it off the more you can laugh and throw jokes and try to like lighten it it switches the brain chemistry to go from like rageful resentful to like it gives your brain a pause to throw a joke in there break smiles from each other i also think this could be the last one one thing that we have fortunately done pretty well because of you and your scheduling expertise is literally make time for each other and prioritize time together despite all the busyness of life you know and it's like thursday night date nights we're going to freaking sit there whether we're having a good time or not we're there i had someone asked me about this they were really

curious I said we have a standing date night every Wednesday and they were like wait like how does that work who who initiates that like date night and I was like no no no no we even took that away from it yeah because if you start just like expecting and then someone forgets and your feelings get hurt like every Wednesday we know we're going to go out and then it's up to us at date night to like each individually initiate conversation and like intimate conversation and like everything yeah but yeah we did just switch date night from Thursday to Wednesday which is a massive shift for us massive I'm still not used to it I know I know I got like wow it's Wednesday already I know which is exciting I don't mean that a bad way I mean it like it's early in the week I know

Thursday was a good day I would recommend there's Yeah. Anyway, here's some takeaways and reflection. One, don't be surprised by flaws. Expect them, both from yourself and your spouse. Two, I love this one. Choose curiosity over criticism. What's your favorite line from Ted Lassow when they're playing darts? And he says, instead of being judged, maybe you could ask the question or whatever. Look it up because it's my favorite scene ever in life. I got chills. Be curious, not judgmental, Walt Whitman. From Ted Lassau.

That's right. Instead of why do you like this, ask, help me understand this. That is a paradigm shift, dude. If you would all start out with that when you're dating, things that might be red flags to you might actually be green. If you took the time to understand why someone has a thought or an opinion or a belief that they have. Also, I would say the curiosity in dating, is a highly attractive and appealing trait to the other person.

If you are asking questions, it shows, I think, a level of engagement and immersiveness and intellectuality that is unmatched. So be curious instead of critical. Look for the good. Celebrate your partner's strengths more than you dwell on your weaknesses. That's one thing I've learned from parenting is like, for me, it's so natural to say, don't do this, stop doing that, no.

and I'm trying to balance that out with hey great job doing this thing that I asked you to do because that doesn't come as natural it's like when the good things are expected you don't celebrate them as much but if you celebrate the good things I think it lends itself to like oh I want to do more of that also yes everyone is technically a bad choice to marry but when you choose someone and they choose you back again and again it is beautiful And it's amazing. Also, not about avoiding imperfection. It's about building love inside it.

Building love inside imperfection? Yes. That's deep. Imperfection is normal. You're not going to find the perfect person. But embrace it. Yeah. What if love was stronger than the flaws?

Oh, my gosh. That'd be deep. Also, I would love, I would love, yeah, yeah. Would love if you share it in the comments what's a little quirk of your partner that drives you crazy but also makes you love them a lot uh one thing i love about sean i would say is that sharp intensity like that's been the theme of the summer is like seeing that in you and it's amazing and mine would be your happy go luck yourself your inability to take things serious sometimes i'm sorry we're yank no i'm

Sorry. It's yin' yang. It's beautiful. I love you, man. I love you, baby. That's all we got. That's all we got. Thanks for listening. If you made it this far, please subscribe to the show on whatever platform you're listening and give it a rating. And we'll see you next time. I'm Andrew. I'm Sean. Out.