Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - Fame, Pressure & Healing with Nia Sioux

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Nia Sioux joins us for a deeply honest conversation about growing up in the spotlight, navigating toxic training environments, body image, and learning how to separate discipline from emotional harm in competitive performance spaces. We also discuss the culture of “tough love” in dance and athletics, and how harmful behavior is often normalized or disguised as discipline, passion, or preparation for success. Nia also talks about her book, Bottom of the Pyramid, and the themes that inspired it — including resilience, triumph, and defining success for herself.Beyond the entertainment industry, this episode explores confidence, burnout, mental health, womanhood, and the process of rebuilding a sense of self outside of performance. A thoughtful, vulnerable, and incredibly important conversation that we loved so much! Love you guys! Shawn & Andrew https://www.instagram.com/niasioux/ https://linktr.ee/niasioux?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGn4QQkztuGCYOTk9ao7Li_pViWJqPQoM3xhVXS_wrHGnDfRzjUGXUH9ICiKgA_aem_bxAGkwkF5Do78XDwxxzB0g Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody. Welcome back to a couple things interviews. With Sean and Andrew. Today we have a very large name, Nia Sue. You probably have known of her and watched her grow up on the screen from what she became famous for, which was Dance Moms. But today we are talking about her book and how she is here to tell her story her way. I was really impressed by Nia and how she communicated herself and has dealt with a lot of hurdles in life and really come out better and now is sharing.

her experiences in a way that I feel like is balanced and with hopes of improving other people's life. She is so articulate for her age and she's so mature and just it was wonderful to have her here. Yeah. Thank you, Nia for your time. If we want to find out more about Nia and what she's up to, including information on how to buy her book. We'll link that down below. But without further ado, Nia Sue. Nia, welcome to the show. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me. Glad you're here. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to start with the oddball question.

Okay. I'm curious, do you know the origins of your name, Nia Sue? Kind of. Well, Nia in Swahili means purpose. Okay. And then Sue. Thank you. Thank you.

And Sue, my middle name is, you know, there's the Native American tribe, the Sioux. Yeah. So I'm part Native American. So that's why my parents. name me like Nia Sue. So who's your middle name? She's actually my middle name. So I go by Niyosu, but my full name is Nia Sue Frasier.

Oh, I love that. But my stage name is like Nia Sue, but it's also my real name as well. Yeah. Okay, great. Congratulations on your book. Thank you so much. How has the process been? It's been great.

Right. I mean, this whole thing has been so wonderful. It really has. It's been very, I don't know, like it's just getting to meet everyone and talk about my story and meet people who, and meet people who, resonate with it. It just, it means a lot. It means a lot and I don't take any of it for granted. Has it been cathartic actually going back and reflecting on everything and putting pen to paper and kind of sharing your story your way? Absolutely. It's been very cathartic. Being able to take

the time for myself and just process everything I went through, you know? Being able to write about how I felt in certain situations, bring light to topics that weren't really touched on when I was on dance moms and how people see me for the real me has been so like I'm just really grateful that I have a platform where I can express myself and that I can give people something tangible so that they can they can read and be a part of my story and hear the full truth yeah as a mom I feel like there's been this huge shift in culture yes in the past few years coming from the gymnastics world You coming from the dance world. I feel like we have very similar upbringing.

Oh, for sure. Where there was a culture back in, quote, our day that people got away with stuff. Yes. And it was just how it was. But now being a mama to a little girl and two boys and seeing people like you have the strength to stand up and say, you know what? You all said this was fine back in the day, but it's really not. And to see the world kind of shifting makes my mom. my heart so happy. Thank you. So I want to start by saying your bravery and coming out to just

lay it all out there is does not go unseen by momless like me. I really appreciate that coming from you know a mom. I really I really do. But yeah, you're right. A lot gets swept under the rug. Yes. And a lot of tough love gets yes. Like it gets masked as tough love. But what it really is is like just it's it's not it's like not it's just cruelty you know um so that's why it's so important to share our stories because i know that i'm not the only one who has been through these experiences um and people need to know that one they're not right but if you ever go through these experiences that you can make it out on another side and that you can be okay you speak about your upbringing with abbey lee miller and dance moms and your dance moms and your dance

background when you were a kid going through this program did you know back then in the moment that something was wrong or did it feel like culture to you that you've since realized later on in life that was wrong um no no it totally yeah it totally makes sense i i definitely was aware that certain things were wrong um you know like like the stuff that she would make me do sometimes like the dances and some of the things that she would say were definitely racialized. And so like I understood that to a certain degree when I was younger and understood it even more when I got older. But with some stuff, no, because again, you just chalk it up to tough love. And you're like, well, this is making me a better dancer, you know, but at a certain point it's not. And at a certain point, it's crossing a line.

And you don't need to be cruel to get what you need out of a dancer. You can absolutely, like, you know, teach tough lessons, you know. There's nothing wrong with a little grit, but it is important that it doesn't cross a line of just mean and nastiness, you know. Can I ask a question at the expense of maybe coming across ignorant? Yeah, of course. But I think about this, I would never want to be a coach because, When I look at young athletes, there is what they think they're capable of, which is like a certain level.

And then there's what they're actually capable of, right? Which they're not, that athlete is not maybe aware that they can achieve whatever else is on the table. Yeah. And the coach's role is to step into that gray area and push them, which naturally is uncomfortable. So I'm curious to just have an open discussion about how did you know? or in in retrospect what was too much or versus what was just a coach being a coach and pushing you you know to to achieve more or whatever of course of course that's actually a really good question because sometimes people don't understand the difference you know yeah um for me i'll talk about my experience because yeah i can only i guess i can only talk for myself

But I would say for me, when I knew that it was not right was when she started critiquing things that I could not fix. I could not fix the color of my skin. She said, I don't look like a dancer. I don't fit in with the rest of the girls. She said that she wanted blonde hair, skinny white girls that were all the same height. I wasn't that. I was not that. So I couldn't give that to her.

Yeah. And for that, that's cruel. But also, even when we talk about just body, like how I look, she always told me I was, like, I was too curvy. I didn't have a dancer's body. Instead of saying I didn't have a dancer's body, instead of saying I don't fit the mold, why don't you, let's change the narrative. Because dances for everyone. And to say it's just for like one kind of person or you can only be successful if you look a certain way.

That's not true. But then let's break the mold. Let's break the barrier. Let's do that. Let's choreograph for my strengths. Let's choreograph things that look good on me. Let's do like let's do that. Help me become a great dancer to break that mold.

Let's not already put me down and say, well, you can't do it because you don't look a certain way. That's super helpful and well said. So, so I guess to rephrase some things or maybe cleanly, like there's, there's the certain things that are not changeable. Right. Yeah. The coach might be asking you to do it, which the coach is at fault there. There's certain things that they might bring up like a technique that the athlete or the student might need to adopt and say, okay, yeah, I can't improve on that. And then there is also a conversation piece of, hey, the coach, she's at one way.

I see it another way and can we make some type of compromise here to say, hey, maybe I'm not doing the right dance style or maybe we should try a whole different category or like re see things like you're saying of, hey, let's change a narrative and like change dance for the better. Right. You and I have talked about this, especially with like the gymnastics and just culture these days, coaching. I can't imagine being a coach right now because everything is very gray and coaches are very nervous to cross the lines. Of course. Of emotional. Yeah.

But I do think exactly what you're saying. There's a very fine line between being, having constructive criticism for a kid that's specific to them, that pushes them to go further, but you're not crossing a line to being degrading, manipulative, unkind, rude, or just criticism. Or just criticism. Right.

Yeah, yeah. I even know, like with our children. We have a daughter who is very empathetic and you have to you have to coddle her more. Things have to be understood. It has to be in slow time. And then our son, who's four, he's crazy. Yeah. He's just crazy.

He has so much energy and he just loves life. And you can't coddle him. You have to like keep up with him and you're running next to him and say, go faster, go faster, you know. But I think what you're saying is there was a line crossed in so many aspects where it was mean. it was cruel. It was criticism. You can't change. It wasn't functional. It wasn't anything playing into the betterment of you as an athlete. Yeah. It was just to tear you down. Right. And so exactly, I don't see an issue with like tough love. You know what I mean? Like I really like I don't, I don't mind that. Like I've had other teachers that are better tough that are strict. Yeah.

But they didn't make me feel bad about myself. Yes. They didn't make me feel like, I couldn't do it. If anything, they'd be like, okay, well, if you want to be the best, then you have to do X, Y, and Z. You have to do, you have to change your habits. You have to change, you know, what you're doing. There's constructive criticism, but then there's just plain right out like, like, cruelness, you know? And yes, there is like a lot of gray area.

And I think it depends on, like, the student as well. Everyone is different. And everyone, you know, processes things differently. and some people you have to be a little harder with, but other people don't do well under that sort of pressure, you know. And it takes a good coach to know the difference, right? It takes a good coach to know the difference. And coaches are supposed to help you rise to the occasion, right?

They're not supposed to tell you you can't do it, or like you should just stop now because you're not going to do it, like you're not going to make. Like that's not what a good... Yeah, it's not motivation. That's not motivation. What a good coach does is help the student rise to the occasion, have challenges for them where they can meet. Have them, have them try and exceed expectations.

Don't just set them up for failure. I'm curious for those who might not know your backstory, you mentioned you liked writing the book so that you could share. Yeah. Yes, I know. First, you have to buy the book. Just so listeners could build touch points. We can give you a glimpse. Yeah.

Would you mind sharing? a highlight of kind of how you got here and what you did go through at a high level. Absolutely. So the show that I was on, Dance Moms, it was a reality show where basically it followed this dance troop school in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I'm from, where we had, you know, this crazy dance coach, Abby Lee Miller. And then I was one of the daughters. and so it followed the moms and the daughters and Abby and all of the dynamics between us.

And we would go to a different dance competition every single week with a different group dance. Sometimes we'd have solos, duets, trios, multiple group dances. So we'd learn new dances every single week, perform them and try and win. Dance competition. And this went on for technically. eight seasons, but my contract was for seven seasons and then the eighth season they had like a totally

different cast. But I was on there from season one through seven. So that's kind of how, that's how I got my start. That's what I came from. I came from reality. And then since then I've been able to travel the world. I've done off Broadway.

I act. I sing. I dance still. I went to school and now I'm an author. So yeah, I do a little bit of everything but that's kind of that's my background how old were you when you started the show I was nine that's great I was nine so two of the three of us here were child stars I'm curious what was that like like I kind of want to just hear you guys talk about that experience because you've not a lot of people make it out of that alive right you know right well that's right well that's why for me it was so important

to write the book because although yes my experiences you need I know that so many people go through it. The dance world can be very toxic in the gymnastics world and all, you know, they kind of go hand in hand. They're very similar. So that's why I knew that in writing this book, I wanted there to be an underlying message of that, yes, you can go through all this, but don't, don't let it break you. Don't let it break your spirit. Don't let it steal your joy like still like I wanted them I want people to see that you can still make it out alive you can still make it out whole well adjusted and okay and happy and thriving you know that those experiences don't just define you but I would love to hear your take on it too no I'm just I've been sharing

a little bit and then asking a question so I'm curious with you I was very fortunate we've talked about this many times on even our show gymnastics was a very corrupt world very similar to dance. Very, very similar. I've heard so many things, even just in this, where I'm like, oh, I just want to give you a hug. We went to the same thing. But I was very lucky.

My personal coach was a godsend to me. He was everything anti that system. And though I had to deal with that system and I had to deal with the critiques that I couldn't change. Of course. I was in a similar way, very different to what the culture of gymnastics looked like. I was stockier, more muscular. And every comment that was made was you don't look it.

Right. So you won't ever make it. And as soon as you change that, which you can't. Right. Then you'll make it. And I was lucky enough to have that coach who could speak truth to me. Even though I was hearing the other stuff, he would try to counter it. Did you have that person?

Because you were paving away for all. this like a new generation and a new look to the to the to the dance world and like in so many different ways did you have that person that kept you going or were you taking it on yourself i had people in my corner okay not necessarily on the show besides for my mom absolutely i would say my mom played a huge role she's not a dance teacher right but she is an educator and she is a teacher she comes from the education background um so with me anything that Abby would say anything that outside people would say noise, you know, she would be that person for me. She'd be that person telling me, look, don't listen to them. Like, this is who you are.

You know who you are. You can do this. You know, she was that person for me. And then as I got older and we started meeting more people, I've gained mentors. Other dance teachers who really saw something in me and were able to push me further. I remember it was like the the last season or two of dance moms. Whenever I wasn't filming, I had a dance teacher. His name is Richard L. Z. But he took me under his wing and he literally just, he made me such a great dancer. He made me so strong because he saw what I did on the show. He's like, oh, you can do better than that. And that's the thing. It's like when someone tells you you can do better, and I'm going to show you how you can do better. And he did that. And I'm so grateful for him. There's another woman, Kristen McQuaid,

she helped me a lot with my dancing. She would help me film YouTube videos and make like dance constant videos for people on YouTube to watch me dance how I, how I really dance. Because that was another part and aspect of the show. Abby always gave me not that grade of choreography because she claimed that I was a bad dancer. Hence the bottom of the pyramid, I found myself at the bottom of Abby's pyramid, which is like her ranking system every week. And basically that was kind of like the narrative, my narrative on the show that I was a weak dancer because she put me in this box.

But that wasn't the truth. She wanted to make me look bad. So she gave me choreography that wasn't good, that she knew wasn't going to win, gave me a dance, a song, costumes that were honestly kind of set up to lose. And he saw through that and he saw me, or Richard and Kristen, they both saw me. And they're like, oh, you can do better. We see your full potential. And you can, I wish you were doing this.

And since I couldn't do the stuff I should be doing on the show, outside of the show, I took matters into my own hands and I would post dance videos on my own YouTube. so people could see my real dancing and not what they just see on TV. And I know not everyone was able to see those, but for me, it helped. And for super fans who were able to watch, like, they got a sense of what I could really do and what I really brought to the table. But that's the power of a good teacher, a good instructor, people helping you. And I have great mentors who have helped me and trained me and have reminded me along the way, like, just because you don't fit. a mold doesn't mean you can't do it. You just have to, you just have to do it a different way or

you have to be the first. You know, you have to keep going no matter what. Yeah. Centering, it sounds like Richard, I think it was Richard, you said, who mentioned you could do better. And he didn't just like leave it at that or wasn't like spiteful or wasn't like talking about. It was like, hey, you can do better. Here's how we can do that. And then like also led you through that process, which is kind of cool to just to again get a little more insight into good coach, bad coach. But I'm curious, was a dance troupe in Pittsburgh? Was that like a historically legendary dance trouper?

No. Why did the show start there? It is so random. Like when I tell you it's so random, it's genuinely so random. It was between the, the, oh my gosh. They were between a studio out in California and our studio in Pittsburgh.

And I think it was just so dysfunctional where they were like, yes. Like also, we. technique our team of dancers like we were good in Pittsburgh but it wasn't like it wasn't like we really had like a huge name like especially like our team there were there were um six of us that started on the show I think four of us were like in the same same like class or the same group but then we had like an older girl who was like in like the teen company and then we had um like another girl who was in like the mini company like we were so we were all kind of like mush together we weren't even

like in technically all in the same yeah same line but we became this line for this show and yeah that's i think that's the craziest thing because it and it's also like we weren't the best dancers i've never even said that we were the best answers we just we were a good group but It was so random. You were already like taking classes there and then. Yes, I was at Abby's studio since I was three years old. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's super fascinating. I feel like what I've seen from an outsider's perspective, dance and gymnastics is different than football. Although all you sports are intense. Like I feel like the parents and the, the energy around those two activities is like super intense.

Oh, I can see. Yeah. Like it's like the stage mom thing. Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? As soon as I started spending time around the gymnastics world, I was like, what the heck is this? And I feel like dance has that same energy. I was like, whoa, this is not.

Does her daughter do gymnastics? She does a little bit of it. A little bit? It was a place where I knew kids could go to play at a very young age. So like she's done that, but it's like not her thing. Gotcha. Okay, okay. Yeah, she's now falling in love of a cheer, which I don't know if that's any better.

So very similar. Very similar. The same world. The two things she's chosen so far are cheer and ice skating. And I'm like, oh. Why can we choose soccer? Yeah. Or softball.

But it's fascinating. I find myself just like reflecting on everything. And with gymnastics, since I lived it, I can so easily understand how it happened and how it was dealt with and everything. And even like explaining to Andrew and teaching him how that's, how what that world was like. Like, I would do it again because I am who I am because of it. But it's like listening to your story makes me so angry. And even, I even remember the dance mom era.

Right. I remember the hype. And thinking that so much of our world was so entranced, but tuning in and watching these little kids be talked down to and control. and controlled and manipulated. And the world celebrating that. Yeah, as entertainment. As entertainment.

And watching people get away with it. And not even that get paid for it is so interesting and so disheartening. Do you think in telling your story, and I know some other girls have come out and shared a lot as well, do you think it's changing or do you think it's just we're turning a person? page to the next one. That's a really good question, actually. I don't know if it's changing, changing. Yeah.

Because I haven't been in that world for a minute. You know what I mean? So I don't know if I can really say if it's changing or not, but I hope it does. I hope it does. Like, it has to be better. And I do think as a whole, though, like, I do think we can talk about some of these things more now, especially since COVID, I think we can talk about race more. We can talk about mental health more. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like we have these conversations that are a little

harder, a little bit more difficult to have with people. Which we all should be having. Which we all should be having, which we all should be having. And I think we're all talking about it, not just like in person, but also like on the internet, on in media. Like there's more, there's more talk about that sort of thing, which I do think is, I think we're going in the right direction. I do. Transitioning out of dance after you left dance moms and you're now, like you said, a dancer and an actress. How did you begin the healing process and just the revelation process of understanding what it is you went through and how you redefined it? You had someone speaking yourself worth, which was false for so long.

How did you go on to rebuild that and start your next phase of life? Yeah. Well, I've always been just like an optimistic person. Like I've always been that kind of person that just kind of makes the most of what I have, you know, like the stuff that's brought to me. But I would say like after the show ended, it took me a second to get readjusted to. How old are you and it ended? I was 15 like the last episode. But like by the time I aired, I was 16.

So like 15, 16 years old. And at first I was fine. But then it got really dark. And I was like I was kind of lost. I didn't really know what I wanted to do because I was kind of scarred from dance. And in competition dance world, I was like, I'm not going back to that. I knew that after that last competition on dance moms, I was never going to do another dance competition again.

And I was so okay with that. But I was just like, I don't know what. to do in like yes i want to act but like i live in pittsburgh and and i ended up you know going out to l.A and in booking a job and everything but that in-between area where i was like i don't know what i'm going to do that took a mental toll on me because you just you one because you've been you've someone has been telling you like basically your whole life that you're just not good enough like an authoritative figure, you know, a teacher who are, again, the person who's supposed to be building you up.

And yes, my mom, you know, combated that with with her affirmations and her love, but it's still, it still still take a toll on you. And not only that, but I felt like the world also kind of thought those same things. Like I wasn't good enough to make it in, you know, in that industry. So it took a lot of soul searching. It took some time. It actually took a couple of my other mentors. Their names are Chloe and Mod Arnold.

They're sisters. And they are part of a group called Syncopated Ladies. They made it. They're tap dancers. They're incredible. Amazing. But they're the ones who actually got me back into dance because after dance moms, I kind of was done with it.

And I think once I was able, once they helped me get back into dance and after I started getting confident with with dance again is kind of when I started healing whenever I knew that dance was still mine and that Abby didn't take it away from me you know once I realized like oh actually I can just do this for fun I don't have to post about it I don't have to let the world know see me dance like I could I can just dance yeah I don't have to you know I don't have to show it I can it can just still be a part of me in that way um and I think that helped me heal a lot because it was something that it's you know what was my first love is how i got my start and like kind of going back to my roots and starting from like you know the ground like you know zero again it

it kind of helped and it made me take ownership over dance again and i think healing my relationship with dance helped me heal my relationship with dance moms and just being on television and even though you know all this stuff happened i i i don't know the healing process has been it's had its ups and downs but i i feel like i'm finally out of place where i can like i can talk about all these things that happened and i i don't have to dwell on it you know it doesn't upset me as much anymore whereas if you asked me like you know five or six years ago i would still probably be upset because you were saying when you were like you hear these things and it makes you upset and that seems to be a lot of the reaction from a lot of people and they're like, you seem so calm. But I was like, because I've,

but it's because I've healed. But you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I can talk about gymnastics and I'm fine with it. Right. Like hearing that, I'm like, ah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it is, it is crazy and it's not, it's not normal. Yeah. It's not normal. And I understand that. But for some, but it was my normal, you know. But it's also beautiful to see how you speak about it because you can tell you've gone through that. Yeah. Yeah. You can see things rationally.

Yes, I try to. Yeah, I mean, we all have up and down days. But how long, sorry. It is like a reclamation. It sounds like instead of like running away from the dragon, you kind of like turned around and faced it. And it's like, yeah. That's the most powerful form of healing, I think, is when it's not like this dark shadow looming

over your shoulder. So, kudos to you. Thank you. And writing the book and being able to share my story now, I think that was honestly, like, the last thing I really needed to do before I, like, turn the page and, like, really, like, kind of put this behind me because for so long, I stayed quiet. I didn't really talk about my experience because I didn't want to upset people. I didn't. I'm not, I don't like drama. You know, like, I just don't. I try to stay out of it. And I don't really want to ruffle feathers. But at the same time, telling my story has been, like, the last thing I really needed to like have closure with that part of my life. Have you spoken to Abby? Mm-mm. Would you like to? No.

Yeah. Yeah. I have that one person too. Okay. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, no, no. Some people have asked, they're like, are you hoping for an apology? I'm like, no.

Like I don't really care. I mean, she doesn't even have my number. Like, she doesn't have a way of contacting me. And I'd like to keep it that way. Yeah. Yeah. I remember we did this, it was considered marriage therapy, or marriage counseling, but it was like we each had our own person. And I remember my lady, we talked about gymnastics a lot and how like even today it can like affect our marriage and just things that I had to deal with.

And she had this exercise where I had to go through and like forgive each person. And there was just one person. I was like, I don't know. Man, that one's going to be hard. Yeah. That's such a good point. maybe someday yeah yeah well some people have asked me that too they're like have you forgiven her I'm like no but like I have to move on with my life I feel like I've gotten to a point where like I don't understand

the why yeah I know it happened I know that person I don't wish ill will I don't wish ill will but I'm like I want nothing to do with them though yeah yeah yeah I we see each other I would like to forgive them someday and I will work towards yeah yeah it'll take a while yeah and also I don't No, I don't feel like you have to. Yeah. You know what I mean? I feel like some people you don't have to forgive. Yeah.

But you have to keep moving through life. And although you don't forgive, it's not like you hold resentment or hate or any of that. It's more just like you're just, like they don't exist in your world. Yeah. And that's good enough for me. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

How long has it been since the last episode? I think it's been like seven or eight years. Okay. Yeah. It's been a while. And it's been 14 years since the first episode aired, which is insane. I'm like, what? It's a teenager.

Yeah. That's crazy. Do you stay in touch with Jojo? Not really. I used to. I used to stay in touch with her, but I don't really keep in contact with her anymore. Because it was Kenzie, Maddie, Jojo, Nia. Who else?

Who else was on the show? From the last episode or like, there's the first. There's so many people. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. There's like, because the first, the first season, it was, it was me, Maddie, Kenzie, Brooke Page, Chloe. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then another girl Vivian, but she wasn't, she wasn't at our studio.

I forgot there were like multiple. Yes, exactly. It was always, like people left, people came back, new people joined. New people joined and then they left and then some people stay. It's been, there were people in and out, yeah. What's your favorite thing you're doing now? Ooh. I mean, that's a great question. I'm really excited just to kind of see where life takes me. I mean, right now, right now, like in this current moment, I'm excited for like this tour. Like I said, like I really, like, I really love meeting people. And I really love, like, talking to them about my story. And like, I love how people tell me about their experiences. Like, they, they like to take the time to tell me their story and how, like, my book affected their life or just like my story or growing up, you know.

So I've been really enjoying that. That's brought me a lot of happiness. But I'm excited to get back to performing because I honestly, the past like four or five years have been quite interesting. I mean, COVID happened. And then I went to college. So I went to college. I got my degree.

and then the actor strike happened and then so like there's been so much and I took time off because I wanted to make sure that I focused on my education and then I wanted to finish writing my book and make sure that got out so now that all of that is done I can finally like go back to to performing what I love

where did you go to school? I went to UCLA oh amazing yeah yeah yeah did your degree in American literature and culture amazing yeah yeah it's so interesting because Sean turned pro in gymnastics at age 12 We met when I was a sophomore junior at Vanderbilt here. And I realized how, again, you guys just being in the limelight at such a young age is so different. Because when you meet strangers now, still probably people come up to be like, oh, I'm such a huge fan.

Or they ask you one of three questions. Like, what was dance moms like? Or what was whatever? And so, like, meeting new people is not exciting. It's like, it's like, sorry. I think because you're like to ask the same question. Yeah, it's like the same old just rinse and repeat kind of. Or maybe it's a, it's less of an adventure.

And I feel like meeting new people because I went to school and like had that all experience. It's like you meet someone new. You're like, oh man, it's going to be a journey and like a treasure hunt to try to figure out where can we connect or where is our overlap. Yeah, no, it's all out there. People just know. Isn't that weird? Like people come up to me and they just know my. Yeah.

And like, no, I guess they didn't know the whole story, but like they know they basically watch me grow up, you know? And I didn't have much of a life outside of dance mom. So they really did just watch my whole childhood. I always love, I'm sure you get the same exact thing because it's, it was your childhood that are ingrained that's in green people's mind. Yes. But they're like, oh, you still dance? And it's like, well, it was a very long time ago. People be like, oh, you're still doing gymnastics.

I'm like, I'm married. I have kids. I'm not flipping around anymore. But it's always fascinating how people have such an expectation of like they know you and all these things. Yeah. Coming out of college, you've written a book. You have re-emersed yourself into the dance world and acting and performing. What are three things, three goals you have in the next five to ten years?

Ooh, great question. Definitely theater. I want to do Broadway. I've done off-roadway. I'm ready for Broadway. That's like, yes. Do you have a specific show or you just Broadway? Not necessarily. Just Broadway. I mean, I have like dream roles and shows that I would want to be in.

Yeah. But like I would be happy doing basically anything. Like I love it so much. I love performing live. Do you have plans to move to New York? I've always said I was going to move to New York sometime in my 20s. So hopefully at some point that's coming. I spend a lot of time there now. So we'll see. Let's see. Another goal of mine. I mean, I love just helping people in any way I can. So I don't exactly know what that is, but I would love to, you know, start a nonprofit one day. I just don't know exactly what it would be yet.

I'm still working on like the details of that. I don't know. I feel like I just really want to perform. I want to act. That would be like another thing. I really want to act. I really want to get back into that because I did a soap for for a couple years of soap opera. Amazing.

And then I did a lifetime movie. So I would like to get back into that world because I miss like being on set. I miss like I miss storytelling in art. And I know you said three things, but to go along with storytelling like like directing, producing because I've done I started doing that. I've started directing and producing certain projects. So getting into getting into that world as well. Wow.

Doing like a little behind the scenes. I really enjoy that. Yeah. I love that. Is there anything about your story you'd change? Like, whether it be, you know, not continuing with dance at a certain point or not having it filmed or, I don't know, anything? I don't think so.

I mean, I honestly, I live my life with no regrets, really. Yeah, I don't have any regrets. You said the same thing. You're like, I'd go back and do it again. I don't know if I'd go back and do it again, but I don't have any regrets. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm really proud of.

like who I am today and like everything that I've done in in the past has like led to like this moment and in who I am now and I wouldn't want to erase any of that that's part of my story um but but I but I do think that like yes people could have acted better people could have you know it's it's always you know but if it wasn't this it would have been something else honestly so we've talked to Jojo recently because we got to know our I guess through the YouTube world originally we babysat Jojo for a little bit. And she was a big fan of Sean. What do you mean you babysat Jojo?

This was like a long time ago. Really? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Heard it? But, uh, small world. Wait, when? I met Jojo and she was seven.

Yeah. Oh my goodness. Very small world. Very small world. We've been talking to her because we just did this show, the special forces one that she also did. Oh, okay. Yeah.

We were talking about that. It was cool because it seemed like that show for her was like a re-appraisal of herself image in some way. of like it was a lot of healing yeah but to your credit you know like you all went through an extraordinary event whatever they are you know and um they so easily could be crippling but i think i think you know it took you years to heal through it i think jojo like you know is going through a healing process but uh you've done a phenomenal job it seems like uh intentionally and also just to the benefit or the appreciation of the people around you.

Like you mentioned you have mentors and all of those people who can help adjust your self-image despite all the extraordinary circumstances is such a wonderful thing. You could tell sitting here talking to you. It's like you're so impressive. And you've used all these things not in a way that like has been to your detriment. It's like, no, she's now a boss. Thank you. I was doing math in my head of your age rather than asking you.

You are incredible. The fact that you're able to speak with so much wisdom. Thanks, thanks. You look like you're 20, but I was like, is she in her 30s? There's no way. Oh, no, yeah. I'm 24. You are so wise.

Thank you. That's very sweet. Again, I would never wish any of this on anybody, but you can tell you've come out of it so strong. And it is, again, from a mom, just like, I want my daughter to read your book. I want... That's so sweet. We had... That's such a, like, that's such a honor. Truly. Like, seriously. And... And...

And... Really? It's like... I've said this before and I said it to someone we got to interview, honestly, right before you. Like, strong women. Um, I know I can't protect my daughter from everything in the world. You can't. And I know she's going to go through some really hard things and things that I don't want her to go through. But it gives me hope that strong women can pave the way for her to say even if you do or when you do, you can come out stronger because of it. And it can't, it doesn't have to define you. And it's, it's beautiful to hear your story. Thank you. Well, that's the whole point, you know, um, it's, it's healing and taking, you know, what happened and turning it around, turning into how, how can we use this instead of, you know, harping on it and

letting it eat us alive? Like let, how do we grow from this? How can we take this and learn from it and do better. And that's like the whole thing. You know, whenever life throws these curve balls at you and, you know, it, it can get really scary and dark. How can you come out from that? How can you learn from it? And I think that that's just like, that's the message that I want to share with people because, yes, life gets hard. There's a lot of craziness that happens that you cannot control. You just cannot control. Like I said, if it's not this, it would have been something else. You know what I mean? But you have to learn how to navigate it. And that's the hardest part is navigating it, not letting it dictate your life and and haunt you, letting it like really, really, really, really, like making sure that you come out whole.

It's important. And it's important for people to see that you can because sometimes when you're in those situations, you think that that's the end. You think that, oh, my gosh, my life is always going to be like this, you know? You don't see the future, but it always gets better. And I think that's like, that's one of the most important things for people to remember is like it always gets better. Do you still love dance? I do.

I do. I actually danced in college. Oh, that's awesome. I did. I did like a, I did a dance club in college and I loved it. I loved it. We performed. It wasn't competitive at all, but we would perform on campus.

And that was that was. really nice just to have like that outlet and and to dance with other other girls that were like at the same level it was it was really nice yeah I'm curious what advice you'd have to young dancers who probably look up to and admire you and then also advice you'd have to dance moms advice for dance moms advice like actual moms oh young and for and for dance moms yeah okay let's see for dancers specifically. I would say like there's almost always a moment where you're going to want to quit at some point. Mine came after the show ended.

But usually when you're like in your teenage years, there's always like a moment where it's either like someone's like junior or senior year of high school. Maybe it's sooner. But they always, you know, they think about quitting dance. And my thing is like don't quit. Or maybe like find a different option for dance or, you know, always keep dance with you. Because you'll regret it later if you don't keep up with it. If you stop dancing. If you loved it in the first place, you know, some people like never loved it and that's different.

But like if you love dance and the reason you're quitting is because, you know, there's, you know, just life happens. Like you don't have to dance every day, but keep it with you to some degree. That would be my advice because that was advice given to me for my mentors. And that's helped me a lot. That's the reason why I can still, I still dance every now and then is because of them, because they're like, don't stop because you will regret it. And then for dance moms, I would say, I'm so grateful I had like not a crazy stage mom mother. But I've seen them.

And what I would say is always support your. your kid no matter what they want to do. So if they want to dance, let them dance and you support them through that. But if they don't want to dance, don't make them. Or like if there's something that they want to do, always support. That's what my parents did. You know, they, something that I talk about in the book was that I started the show because it's something I wanted to do.

I was like, oh my gosh, like a TV show. I love dance. I was like, this is perfect. My mom, she didn't really want to do it. But she did it for me and I'm really grateful for it. And my, you know, it really took a village. It took my whole family to like so much juggling around and I'm grateful for it. But, you know, you have to love it.

And if your kid doesn't love something, you probably shouldn't force them into loving it. That would be, that wouldn't be my advice because I've had friends. I've seen it. And, you know, it doesn't always end the best. So, you know, be supportive of what they want to do. I'm not saying have them walk all over you. but just like their passions support them in their in their passions that's great you're amazing thank you thank you so much for coming in to share your story thank you for writing your story for

everyone to read and hear um we will link your book down below everyone please go get it but truly it's been a pleasure thank you this was so great you guys are awesome i'm excited to watch you on broadway we'll be the first people we'll be the first people thank you Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.